Before Floyd And Chop: Seattle The Bellweather of Progressive Policies

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   GA Andersonposted 4 years ago

   What a depressing hour . . . this hour-long locally produced documentary produced in 2019—before the George Floyd protests and the Chop interlude..
   
   I would guess that most won't watch the full hour, but, after whatever number of minutes, when you are ready to click-off, skip to the last ten minutes to see the successful results of Providence, Rhode Island's solution. (hint: they enforce their laws and offer solutions)
   
   
   
   Do you suppose there are similarities with other progressive cities—like San Fransisco?
   
   GA

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      hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for this video. It is especially revealing that it was done by a local news network. I live in a small city that just voted a Republican city council in and mayor for the first time in 40 years. It was mainly because our last mayor and several of his cohorts were arrested while they were in office. Now, I know this criminal behavior is not limited to Democrats, but our city allowed this to go on for decades before a local guy became an FBI agent and decided to put a stop to it. Homelessness is rampant. Abandoned homes are filled with them and needles riddle our alleyways and even find their ways into our backyards. They arrest the same people over and over again, so that we can see them walking the streets two days later. It's maddening and not even as bad as Seattle though from what I see in this video. And now the BLM are protesting here for defunding police!
      
      Meanwhile, a county over, About 15 years ago I did FAR less than what I saw Travis do in that video and was sent to prison. I was one of many who I found had little business being locked away from society. Maybe what we have in our city, and Seattle, is an over reaction to what some counties were doing back then? I mean people were getting 20 to 30 years for first time drug offenses.  There has to be a comfortable middle ground. We cannot continue to allow people to commit crimes yet, how can we imprison so much of our population? We have to be selective with who we lock up. Why imprison a functioning, working, adult who is clearly not a real danger because he or she has a bit of a habit? All we are doing is making it more likely they will become the people we see in the video. They get out of prison and aren't even allowed to rent an apartment in their name! As with so many issues, I think America's problem is there is no in between. As at the end of this video, prisons, and medicines like suboxone are part of the solution. However, one-size-fits all policies find us violating Constitutional rights and destroying communities.

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         GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I am glad you took the time to check it out hard sun. I think you are right that what we really need is a middle ground. In short, we need to understand that compromise isn't always a bad thing.
         
         GA

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            hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            The video hit home for me. That sounds about right with compromise. I'm in the process of re-defining my political and economic opinions a bit. I actually started as a libertarian, then went pretty far left after getting railroaded by right wing judges and having a greater understanding of the value of social safety nets. Then I think I got a bit caught up in the left's hype and went a bit too far. I'm seeing that what I thought was the middle (Democrats) are from it these days. That's a generality, but..yeah,

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         Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         HS, I respect your courage to share your incarceration.  I'm sure it is difficult for you.
         
         I had a relative who got caught up in drugs and was imprisoned and his habit only got worse.  He didn't make it.  He's no longer with us.
         
         As someone who has traveled that road, I'd like to hear your opinion as to what should happen.  My relative had much promise and was a good kid who started running with the wrong crowd.  I could go into details, but it is an emotional issue.
         
         It is obvious you are very intelligent and articulate, so, how does someone defeat drugs or drug use?  What happens when, as in my relatives case, rehab, prison, rehab don't seem to help?
         
         I'm sure this is a frustration for many families with loved-ones who are consumed by the illegal drug culture.  Good people who can't seem to get their lives on the right track.

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      Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      You call it a "progressive cities ". I call it what it is Democrat-run cities..."What a depressing hour" --- This kind of homelessness has been around for many many years, and it is depressing and tucked neatly under the carpet, no one seems to want to acknowledge it. When living in or visiting San Fran, one is accustomed to avoiding urine and feces. Shielding ones children's eyes from some that prefer not to be properly covered... If you have been to San Fran you know the city literally smells of urine and worse...
      
      It's not new, just getting worse, uglier with every passing day.  Why is it becoming worse? It's clearly due to  Democratic nonsensical Governing. And yes there certainly are some Republican states having problems with the homeless population, but it just does not reach the level of those run by Democrats. Democrats have chosen to not see these unfortunate citizens, they have become invisible. Just like walking around their poop, it's become acceptable. Easier to walk around them, than see them or their problems.
      
      "Providence, Rhode Island's solution. (hint: they enforce their laws and offer solutions)"
      
      I would think to enforce the laws and endorse solving problems with sensible solutions would help all the cities combat their growing unchecked homeless problems.  But is it not easier to make them invisible?
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9z0FNGKng4
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-7jAFYI4D4
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMCMhjDN2to
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08GSVZPkaJw
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtKRVYqo4s4
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUz6BXwM54E
      
      I watched the full video. Not sure what you hoped to elected with the post. No questions posed, The video was disturbing, and just stands to be disgusted at what our society is willing to overlook. It stands to rub anyone with common sense the wrong way.
      
      Thank you for posting it. The problem needs to be realized and worked on.  But, unfortunately, it is much easier to sidestep it.

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         wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I watched the LA clip and was struck by the narrator.  "I don't understand the most progressive city in the world; why is it so hard to give everybody shelter, give everybody food, etc.?" (paraphrased).
         
         Never realizing that he is answering his own question: the "progressive", liberal policies of simply giving people whatever we perceive they need is causing the problem, not solving it.
         
         We hear all the time that "enabling" the alcoholic, the drug addict and other problems is the worst thing we can do, yet we as a "progressive" society are the biggest enablers in the world.  And while we do that - enable people - we are learning at the same time to ignore them.  To simply step around them, to pretend they don't exist even as they absolutely trash our cities.  "Progressivism at work", destroying thousands or millions of lives by continuing and growing the same failed concepts that have made it such an enormous problem.

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      Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      This is a powerful video.  i wonder if Seattle will consider the approach that has been taken by those in Rhode Island.

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         GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         You are joking, right?
         
         GA

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   GA Andersonposted 4 years ago

   I am not sure I was expecting any particular responses Sharlee, except to point out the failure of Seattle's chosen path and Providence's efforts to find solutions.
   
   The video only showed their efforts to combat drug addiction. I would be curious about their efforts to combat homeless mental illness. Just as you can't just leave them on the streets, you can't just lock them up, (in jail), forever either.
   
   GA

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      wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Mental illness is a particularly thorny problem in my mind.  We have all heard (hundreds of times) that our president is mentally ill and now his opponent is, too.
      
      Just what is "mentally ill" is the question.  Where does a decision to live a different lifestyle constitute mental illness?  Not a problem I feel qualified, in the tiniest bit, to discuss...unless that "illness" constitutes a real danger to people around.  That a mountain man desires to live a life of solitude (one died near me recently) or a life on the streets is different, but is it "mental illness"?

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         GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         That is a fair point, but in the context of the OP, the mental illness I am talking about is clearly illustrated by the character the video repeatedly highlights; the guy on the sidewalk screaming angrily at the voices in his head.
         
         GA

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            wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            If he refuses treatment?  What then?  Do we FORCE him onto a drug regimen?  And what happens when we let him out of the asylum and he promptly quits taking his meds?
            
            Do we have the moral right to force drugs, in a locked down environment as necessary, to someone that doesn't want them and refuses treatment? 
            
            This strikes me as a very slippery slope indeed - far too easy to slip into forcing drugs on anyone that behaves differently than we think of as "normal".

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               GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Referring to circumstances illustrated by this guy—more than a danger to himself, he is a danger to society. Compassion has limits. If meds work, that's great, if not then he must be removed from society.
               
               Yes, it can be a very dangerous slippery slope, but in this case, the degree of defectiveness is obvious. There is no slope involved.
               
               Maybe we can have human 'rescue' sanctuaries like we do for various animals. And I don't mean that flippantly. This is a problem we must face as a society. Sometimes there just isn't a pretty solution.
               
               Speaking to the same example, look at the reality. This guy is living a tormented life. Can there be any happiness in his life? Can there be any future but one of constant torment until he dies? Is it our human reverance for freedom and the sanctity of life that demands we allow him to continue his tormented life free to endanger the society around him, or is it a valid reality that sometimes defectives must face confinement from rational society?
               
               I think this is one example where the dangers of a "slippery slope" don't leave us the luxury of inaction. A line must be drawn and a stand must be made.
               
               GA

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      Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted
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         wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         We aren't equipped to solve some problems - some have no acceptable solution.
         
         But the biggest problem is that we encourage the activity by shovelling money at it in the hopes it will go away by itself.  It doesn't - instead it grows bigger - but we continue to shovel money.  We are the "enabler" society - rather than provide solutions we enable the activity.

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            Sharlee01posted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I fully agree. I was making an attempt to point that out in my initial post. We shove the problem under a carpet, and yes shovel money at the problem all paying to not stop the problems, but literally feed the problems. We are a society of enablers. We take the easy way out. Have for a long time.

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