During the fascist movement, was gov the politics of private ownership

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  1. pattyfloren profile image75
    pattyflorenposted 3 years ago

    Facism doesn't equal socialism according to author D. Traylor.  Protests that has happened in the past, may call for an ethnocentric ideology that promotes a new way of anti-government.  Facism begets dictatorship whereas socialism begets anti- capitalism.  So, are we waiting for a new regime to take place in the guise of nationalism and cultural preference, or rather don't we want to be our own individualized selves.  You know the Bible's first commandment!

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I think all roads lead toward a one world order regime which will be based on communism. or some sort of total control over the minions used for their own purposes, whatever those are.

      Sounds far-fetched?
      then,  W H A T  ??????

    2. GA Anderson profile image90
      GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "Thou shalt not kill," for the murderer slays the image of God."

      I don't understand your reference to the 1st Commandment, (I had to look it up), relative to "individualized[sic] selves" and the other parts of your comment

      What are you trying to say or ask?


      1. pattyfloren profile image75
        pattyflorenposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        I was merely referring to a phenomenalogy of a people or culture looking at how another culture thrives, but not really sharing the same values, all things not being equal.  So even if being oneself, one can also love God first.

        1. GA Anderson profile image90
          GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Perhaps I just don't understand your point. I do understand that almost, (so much "almost everyone" that it would be representatively accurate to just say "everyone's"), everyone's perspective of things is culturally influenced, but I don't see your comparisons' connection beyond that point.

          Relative to a new ethnocentric ideology to form a new "anti-government" perspective, wouldn't one first have to experience such a culture to be able to form a credible perspective to promote?

          As for your individualism thought, it is my perception that our human nature demands that we have some degree of individualism. I understand that is a personal and not universal perception, but I think history shows that when viewing the whole of humans, the few small segments, (sects?), that do accept being an identical cog are insignificant as representations of that concept.

          So, yes, I do think that, normally, we all want to be our individual selves—within our different tribes. Even if that degree of individualism amounts to no more than a splash of color.

          It has been said that there is nothing new left under the sun, just variations. In this case, I don't think any change in perspective will present a "new normal" for America, but only a variation of a human normal.


    3. peterstreep profile image79
      peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      i tried to answer this. But in the end didn’t understand a thing about this post.
      Facism doesn’t equal socialism is like saying dogs doesn’t equal cats. It does not make sense. Off course they don’t.
      As G.A I don't get the last sentence either.

      1. pattyfloren profile image75
        pattyflorenposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        No problem, thanks for responding.

    4. peterstreep profile image79
      peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Oké. I will reply on the title.
      During the fascist movement, was gov the politics of private ownership.
      During Adolf Hitler's fascism (which came from Italy.) businesses made huge amount of money. The gov. promoted capitalism. Many bankers did business with the fascist regime of Hitler. A lot of foreign capital promoted Hitler's rise. Many upper-class families promoted Hitler.
      So yes, Fascism and capitalism are no enemies of each other.

      1. pattyfloren profile image75
        pattyflorenposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Is there any proof in that?  Seems like if government during that time who really wasn't pro U.S., would buy into a capitalist society, they would merely try to negotiate business for specific entities:  something they wanted to understand or possess.  Just for business, i don't know what it accomplished.

        1. peterstreep profile image79
          peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          The US is not the only capitalistic country. Germany itself had lots of big companies. During war time the car industry is doing big business for example. Also the pharmaceutical industry is doing big business. Lots of soldures are using drugs in war time.
          And many banks (Swiss) have profited from the war with lucrative deals with Hirler.
          IBM did business with the third Reich, and developed the number system to keep track of all the jews in the concentration camps for instance. There are photo's form Htiler talking with the upper class. Talking with business leaders.
          War is big business.
          Food for thought:

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years ago

    and that "guise of nationalism and cultural preference" is a MYTH!

    Our constitution gives us all privilege.
    Let's keep the Constitution of the United States and all that America truly stands for.
    Let's keep working toward equal opportunity, which President Trump truly believes in and is working toward.

    https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/349 … ys-america

    ... and yes, it's all about staying in touch with ones's Self: Body, mind and spirit.
    - what are your goals, ambitions, hopes and dreams?
    Without being able to fulfill your dreams in freedom and liberty, (within appropriate moral boundaries,) who are you?

    1. pattyfloren profile image75
      pattyflorenposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes this is the America we speak about, justice for all; especially when growing up.  It's a good philosophy, and yes that is suppose to be our driving force for our economy.  But it's a new normal.
      If private government has the will to put us back together again, will they?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        I do not comprehend what you write.

  3. Nathanville profile image93
    Nathanvilleposted 3 years ago

    You’re the first American I’ve seen who’s recognised that fascism is extreme right-wing ‘nationalism’ and not extreme left-wing socialism (communism).

    1. peterstreep profile image79
      peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, Hitler's Germany is definitely extreme left-wing.
      As the name NSDAP tells you so...National Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei . (National Socialist German Workers' Party)...Well, if it states in the name it is socialist, then Hitler must have been a Socialist, right...Like the DDR, which was, of course, a democratic country, as the name said so; Deutsche (German) Democratic Republic.
      North Korea too, is a democratic country because the official name of North Korea is:  Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
      I just wonder why Hitler's extreme left-wing fascistic Germany fought against Russian communism? Weren't they supposed to be friends?

      'What's in a name? that which we call a sewer By any other name would smell as shit'.

      1. Nathanville profile image93
        Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Actually Fascism is (as described by Wikipedia) far-right, authoritarian ultra-nationalism.


        Likewise, Wikipedia makes it perfectly clear that the Nazi Party (National Socialist German Workers' Party) was a far-right political party:-


        National Socialism, as in Nazism, is a far-right ideology that is anti-communism, as clearly stated in this Wikipedia article:-


        The fact that Hitler’s party had the word ‘Socialism’ in it doesn’t mean it was a socialist party.

        Communism is the opposite extreme to ultra-nationalism.  That's why during the 2nd world war Russia ended up as an ally to the UK and USA.

        Another example where non Brits often get confused is the difference between:-

        •    Social Democrats, and
        •    Democratic Socialists.

        The Former is a centralist political party, akin to Liberals (UK) and Democrats (USA), while the latter are non-communist socialists e.g. the Labour Party who are Socialists who, unlike Communists, believe in free democracy.

        1. peterstreep profile image79
          peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          O dear, I thought you British understood sarcasm.

          1. Nathanville profile image93
            Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this


            I've obviously spent too much time with our American comrades on social media.

            1. peterstreep profile image79
              peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              yes me too. I’m flabbergasted at times with the opinions I read here at Hubpages. Makes me understand that there are completely different worlds out there. Which is a good thing to realise. But mind boggling,..

              1. Nathanville profile image93
                Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Yep very true; and so frustrating when America lives in its own bubble.

                1. peterstreep profile image79
                  peterstreepposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  It is frustrating. As the election of the president of the US has such a huge impact on the rest of the world. But the president is voted in by a majority of people who have no clue about what is happening in the rest of the world.
                  Especially now with a president who does not believe in climate change, a worldwide problem. Even as California is on fire because of it (And terrible maintenance that has a direct line of responsibility at the white house.)

                  People talk to easily about fascism. And use it just to easily as a  scolding name without knowing what it means.
                  I always find Umberto's Eco explanation and points to pinpoint fascism incredibly clear.

                  http://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umbe … scism.html

                  And sadly president Trump is ticking too much of the boxes that point towards fascism.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    From the viewpoint of an American, soon to vote in a new President, if other countries wish to hang on to American coat tails then they need to become more "Americanized", accepting the American way of life and government - not demand than Americans accept their notions of how a country should operate and change into what they wish to see.

                    As far as climate change causing our forest fires; we have known for many years that our methods of forest management were not good - that preventing the burning of our beautiful forests would lead to ever greater and more destructive fires.  It had nothing to do with climate change then and it has very little to do with it now - it was, and is, a matter of leaving nature alone to do as it will without harmful human intervention.  It is only very recently (the last few months) that these fires are suddenly caused by climate change; a very clear political attack on Trump with very little truth in it.  Nor is our President responsible for making decisions on how forests are managed, and certainly not responsible for decades of mis-management.  This, too, is merely a political attack with no truth in it.

                  2. GA Anderson profile image90
                    GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    I agree with you that "fascism" is too freely bandied about as a slander, and too often is a completely misunderstood and misapplied claim.

                    Unfortunately, that is about the only point of your comment I can agree with.

                    As a side note, I don't think the U.S. is any different from any other nation when it comes to voting for our president, (leader); we vote for our own interests, as I think every nation does. Whether our interests include the benefit or detriment of another nation will only affect our choice if that consideration affects us. Do you suppose other nation's citizens don't do the same?


                  3. Nathanville profile image93
                    Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    Yep, I agree with every word you say peterstreep.  And yes, that’s how we see it in the UK also, that Trump is so dangerously leaning towards fascism.  He repeatedly refuses to say that he will transfer power peacefully in the event of losing the Presidential election, with every sign that he will try to use the Supreme Court to hang onto power even if he loses the election.  The biggest worry might be if he managed to mobile the Federal Forces to stay in power; which would be a true sign of a fascist Dictator.

  4. CHRIS57 profile image60
    CHRIS57posted 3 years ago

    Interesting how discussion is shifting from Q&A on fascism to electric cars in Idaho. Please allow me to stop by and drop my throw in my thoughts.

    wilderness, your point may be valid for the less than 2 Mill. people in remote Idaho. What about the other 300 plus Mill. in the US? Those on the West Coast or on the East Coast. Forgot, there are more Idahos: May be Kansas? I still have a postcard from a friend from Kansas: All black, description: "Kansas at night". What i want to say: I agree - electric cars without range extender don´t make sense in the Midwest - but everywhere else they do.

    Imho it is misleading if you use the reasoning for "empty" Idaho to extrapolate on the US as a whole. And - when the world looks at the US as a whole, dropping out of the Climate agenda, having a huge CO2 footprint, energy inefficiency, then the world gets afraid and some people get angry.

    I think you have a wrong impression about China. China is certainly not where "a relatively tiny handful of people in the cities" have a car. https://hbr.org/2013/08/car-density-on-chinas-roads-ri 

    A little anecdote from Shanghai: Licence plates are very expensive (to regulate car density). Electric car licence plates are almost for free. I asked one of my collegues in Shanghai about seeing so many green plates in the streets (they actually are green). He pointed out that the licence plate pricing makes E-cars attractive . At the same time a new status symbol is emerging: E-cars with regular, expensive licence plates, to show that you can afford it. The least China has to worry about is empty cities and empty roads.

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting fact about China.  But I looked, and they have about 350 million motor vehicles (including trucks) on about 3 million miles of roads.  On average, that just half the car density that your link gives.  There is little doubt, however, that the density in cities is as much, or more, than in the US.
      https://www.statista.com/statistics/276 … -in-china/
      https://www.bing.com/search?q=number+of … ORM=CHROMN

      As far as "a relatively tiny handful of people in the cities", it IS all relative.  About one in 5 people in China have a car while it the US it is nearly a car per person.  It would be interesting to see what the car density is on Chinese roads more than, say, 800 miles from the ocean (take a look at a map).

      I never intended for Idaho to represent the US: rather it was used as an example (of which there are many) where electric cars are not practical.  And where electric cars owned in Seattle, LA or other large city, would be wise to stay away from.  That goes back to what I said: if you are fortunate enough to own two cars - an electric one for use in your large city and a gasoline one to travel with - it's all good.  But if not, then an electric car won't be much value trying to travel the country.

      While visiting Scotland I saw a charging station in Crianlarich (population 185).  One day we may be able to afford that kind of distribution in the US, but that day is a long ways off.

      1. CHRIS57 profile image60
        CHRIS57posted 3 years agoin reply to this

        I would say the demand for individual transport development is still huge in China. But as i wrote: The least that China has to worry about is empty cities and roads.

        Concerning 800 km inland. Until recently i had business in some provinces that you would accept to be way off the coast (Sichuan province with Chengdu, Shanxii province with the old capital of Xian and the provinces Hubei and Hunan with the cities of Wuhan (quite fashionable today) and Changsha (birthplace of Mao)). What can i say: Traffic same as in the coastal provinces, however i noticed a different way of driving. Shanghai, Beijing: very civilized. Chengdu, Xian: more aggressive, louder: people use the horn, less civilized).
        Enjoy this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y5wdUkVKb0. even though it is nothing unusual. Traffic rules are simply different: For all participants: keep up speed and direction. You get run over if you don´t follow this rule.

        My company had a large industrial project to support in the Shanghai region. Within periodic 3 monthly visits i witnessed the installation of 30 charging stations behind the workshop. I go to China since 1994, but they still surprise me with the speed they get things done.

        In Germany, every company from a certain size on is required to provide charging stations for employees on company ground.

        There are many issues with E-cars still unsolved. Not everywhere they are useful. But they are coming.

        What is the US doing? Have Elon Musk do the job alone? Politics has to give guidelines and assist. Why not do it like the Chinese do with the licence plates. It works. Otherwise China will run circles around the US (and Europe) - and no more Chevy Volt, my condolences.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          The US, just as other countries, is spreading charging stations.  I would have thought that was apparent; a quick look at Google will show it.

          But they cannot cover 4 million square miles (plus Alaska) overnight and doubly so when such a large percentage will never be used.

          In addition, American car manufacturers are investing heavily in electric cars (and hybrids).  I've seen tires specifically formulated for high fuel mileage come into being in just the last few years. 

          And some parts of the US have begun taxing owners of electric cars, and plug in hybrids, above and beyond gasoline guzzlers sad  My complaints fall on deaf ears; as MPG figures rise (to infinite for electrics) there isn't enough money for road work...so those living green must pay more.

      2. Nathanville profile image93
        Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Wilderness, picking up on your point about seeing a charging station in Crianlarich in Scotland; one interesting bit of statistics is that (since 2019) there are now more charging points in Britain than petrol (gas) stations:-

        In 2019:  Total of 9,300 electric vehicle (EV) charging locations (30,000 charge points) across the UK, compared with 8,385 fuel stations.  I’m not sure how many petrol pumps per fuel station, but still an interesting trend, especially considering that the sale of new petrol and diesel (fossil fuel) cars will be banned in the UK by 2035 (Bristol, where I live, is to ban the use of diesel cars in the city as from March next year).

        EV Charging Points in Petrol (Gas) Stations in UK: https://youtu.be/nst2RGtgzfk

        Conversion of Streetlamps (lamp posts) to EV Charging Points in UK (German Innovation): https://youtu.be/rKaEhBjt1ls

        1. CHRIS57 profile image60
          CHRIS57posted 3 years agoin reply to this

          The general issue with charging stations is the grid. To have high performance charging (larger than 100 kW to charge within 60 min.), this will overload the supply grid.
          I live in a street with some 100 houses. No mansions or villas, but upper middle class housing where all residents being able to afford E-cars. If our street would use E-cars with inhouse charging to only 10% of supply capacity, it would blow the fuses of main street supplies. Even regular house connection only allows some 20KW power inlet. Good for overnight charging, but still bad for the grid.

          I am very sceptical about streetlight posts charging. Streetlights have low power connection. Hook up a Tesla and you either have a blackout or you park the car for a week to recharge. 

          This is one of the unsolved issues with E-mobility. How to supply electricity on the last km of the grid. The business consultant in me makes this calculation: Typical charging is 20 kW, takes 5 hours to recharge. Typical refill at a gas station is 5 minutes. Set aside the convenience factor, a single gas station with 4 hookups is worth 4 x 5 x 60/5 = 240 charging stations. Room for improvement.

          I tend to promote either Hydrogen fuel cells or standardized battery packs with a quick change mechanism (like camping gas balloons). Just saying..

          1. Nathanville profile image93
            Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I am a little surprised at your comments; it makes it sound as if the UK is actually doing better in the EV Charging Points Infrastructure than Germany is?

            Albeit it’s not inconceivable:  In that a few years back Theresa May (then Conservative Prime Minister), committed the UK Government to funding of the development of the UK’s EV Charging Infrastructure, in joint partnership with private enterprise:  With a policy goal of making public and private charging points available to every UK household by 2035.

            1.    The Home EV Chargers in the UK are ‘trickle charge’; 7.4Kw, and takes about 8 hours for a full charge.

            2.    The lamp post chargers are only 3.6Kw, and are intended as a top up e.g. add a bit of juice to a car while visiting friends, or a slow overnight top up etc.

            3.    On the move, all the charging points in the UK are ‘Rapid Charge’ e.g. typically 50Kw at the moment, but increasingly 100Kw and higher are becoming more common.  A Rapid Charge at 50Kw will add 100 miles in 35 minutes; which is sufficient for most drivers.

            4.    Destination Chargers are now very common in the UK e.g. at supermarkets, in hotels, carparks and at work etc.  These chargers are typically 7.4Kw, but can sometimes be as high as 22Kw, and they are intended as a top up charge while for example parking in a supermarket carpark while shopping.

            Using public chargers to charge an electric car https://youtu.be/3C9ad9UzX4A

            As regards power supply on the network; the National Grid has for many years been working hand in hand with the Government in building a robust ‘smart’ electricity network to meet the changing demands of Renewable Energy (as Britain swaps fossil fuel for Renewable Energy) and they are confident the National Grid is up to the challenge.  For example, using ‘smart technology’ so that most home charging is done in the early hours of the morning when demand for electricity is at its lowest, when electricity is at its cheapest.

            As regards Hydrogen and other Renewable Energy gases; that is also becoming a big thing in the UK e.g. Britain (along with Germany and China) is now developing Hydrogen trains; Aberdeen (city in Scotland) is rapidly replacing all its old busses and public lorries to Renewable Energy Hydrogen power, just as Bristol (where I live) have now replaced most of its old buses with buses that run on Renewable gas made from sewage and domestic food waste.

            UK National Grid Green Energy Success Story | FOR Clean Energy & Electric Vehicles:  https://youtu.be/ONp8dismI-Q

            Good News is that we should have enough money saved to install solar panels in the new year; we’re also looking in to various options to install storage batteries at the same time e.g. to store surplus energy during the day to use in the evening; and thus use minimal power from the grid.

            1. CHRIS57 profile image60
              CHRIS57posted 3 years agoin reply to this

              ... it makes it sound as if the UK is actually doing better in the EV Charging Points Infrastructure than Germany is?...

              Well Arthur - government propaganda always makes matters look better and more mature than they really are. My personal experience with midsize photovoltaic systems (90 .. 250 kWp) tells a story of how difficult it is to connect a system to the grid, if it is beyond household size, no matter power output or power generation.

              This is why you find grown-up charging stations mostly in industrial areas only, so you don´t have to bury additional copper in the ground. A typical supercharger station from Tesla with 4 outlets requires a megawatt power input, That is a different animal if compared to lamp post charging for little scooters.

              I hope you make a good pick for your upcoming PV project. Panels are cheap now a days. With storage batteries, i would be more careful. While  PV systems for private use tend to pay back within 10 to 12 years. The batteries are more expensive and typically the night use effects are overrated. I never got any reasonable business case calculated (more than 25 years was the best i got from number crunching) and it is unclear how to deal with the limited charging /discharging cycle lifetime. With batteries and night useage advertising deludes.

              .. a long way from fascism to household electricity generation and storage...

              1. Nathanville profile image93
                Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Yep, I am fully aware of Government propaganda, but I’m also aware of what my eyes tells me e.g. Rapid Charge Points are springing up all around me.  I recent years I’ve seen them being installed at breath-taking speed in Service Stations, Pubic Carparks, Supermarket carparks, Shell petrol stations, places of work etc. across Britain.  And most customers do an 80% charge within 20 minutes e.g. while they have a quick break at a motorway service station; and they are on their way again.

                Also our National Grid has come a long way in the last 8 years; from an old system that did its job to a ‘smart’ national grid that provides constant power in spite of all the challenges of the modern Renewable Energy framework e.g. none of the brownouts that you get in the USA.

                Charging an EV at home takes no more power than an electric shower e.g. electric showers in the UK these days run at between 7.5Kw and 9.5Kw, charging a car overnight at home is 7.5Kw. People using electric showers present no problems to the National Grid.  The  biggest problem (biggest challenge) to the National Grid is when millions of people turn on their electric kettles at 7:30pm in the evening, at the end of the popular British TV drama series during the weekdays e.g. ‘Eastenders’ and ‘Coronation Street’; what’s known as the ‘TV Pickup’ in the UK. 

                Below is an ‘OLD’ video showing how, a good few years back (before the days of Renewable Energy) the National Grid coped with the sudden demand for power in the UK when millions of Brits all turn on their electric kettles at the same time:-

                Britain peak power demand https://youtu.be/slDAvewWfrA

                Below, is another ‘OLD’ video of how the National Grid works in the UK, particularly its reliance on ‘Electric Mountain’ in Wales during peak periods e.g. the TV pickup; plus covers this topic of EV’s.

                UK National Grid https://youtu.be/vX0G9F42puY

                More Info on Electric Mountain in Wales, that plays a key role in meeting demand surges in the UK:-

                Electric Mountain in Wales: https://youtu.be/d-Gbs_kXK8Q

                As regards my solar panel project; I’m waiting until next year because the old feed-in tariff (similar to the scheme in Germany) ended this April, but a new feed-in tariff scheme doesn’t start until the 1st January 2021.  Under the new scheme, rather than being paid over the odds for surplus electricity, what you will get paid in the future is a less generous scheme that pays market prices e.g. you sell your surplus electricity to your supplier cheaply (wholesale price) and they sell it onto their domestic customers at the going rate (retail price); so everybody is a winner, especially as the price of Renewable Energy is steadily dropping.

                As regards the batteries:  Yes, I am aware that the Tesla wall power batteries are very expensive and rarely pay for themselves; however, there are now a number of cheaper options on the market that are more economical e.g. battery systems at a fraction of the cost of the Tesla batteries.  Obviously these batteries are not as good, but a lot cheaper, and worth looking into while we’re looking at the various options for solar panel. 

                For example:  https://youtu.be/3WNFutp0n6Y

                However, when making our final choice we will be guided by our Local Government.  We’ll choose a suitable installer via our Local Authority; that way we’ll get an installation that is trusted and recommended by our Local Government (Labour), rather than risk getting it done by a cowboy operation.  So our final choice will be governed by what system they offer.

                Yes we have strayed a long way from fascism, but………..!?


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