what do you think about mail-in balloting?

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  1. jackclee lm profile image84
    jackclee lmposted 11 months ago

    This election has been thrown into chaos and delayed due to mass main-in ballots...
    Is this a good idea going forward?

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Probably.  I've become more than half convinced it can be done safely and without massive fraud.  The delay needs addressed; ballot counting should commence days before the election and accepting ballots long after election day should be ended.  We'll also need some method better than what we have to speed up the counting of mail in ballots.

      On the other hand, I don't mind requiring a little effort to cast a ballot.  If you are too lazy to put out even that small effort we probably don't want your vote anyway.

      1. GA Anderson profile image90
        GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        It seems we are of the same mind. I don't have a problem with mail-in ballots—with appropriate safeguards of course, like postmarks, but, I think there is something intrinsic to the Right of voting in the effort to go to the polls.

        If I had a choice, I would never choose mail-in over in-person voting, but, I can accept the validity of a properly structured mail-in choice. Meaning, I would demand an election day postmark. I don't have a problem with a 3 or 4 day extension for counting mail-in ballots as long as they are properly postmarked.

        I think Pennsylvania really screwed-up with their prepaid ballots that may or may not receive a postmark. This is the one knock where I can agree with the Trump campaign's legal battles.

        GA

        1. crankalicious profile image93
          crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          The thing about mail-in voting is that makes it easier to vote. Seems like a good thing to me. Just need standards, but states are allowed to set their own rules.

        2. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Seems to me that if ballots need to be accepted 4 days (or 2 or 10) after election day they can be sent out 4 days (or 2 or 10) earlier and then not accepted after that day.

          Hadn't heard of the Pa. thing - that is unacceptable.

      2. Ken Burgess profile image91
        Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Florida had a simple process, if you wanted to mail in your ballot, you had to do it by a certain date.  If you didn't get it done by the alloted date, tough.

        Florida is one of the most populated and diverse states, and it got the job done as was required by our Nation's electoral process.

        The States that did not get it done, like PA, decided to ignore both the Constitution and precedence to do their own thing...and I believe it was done so that if Trump had a several hundred thousand vote lead, they could create enough ballots post election to change the outcome.

        Why else do something so obviously questionable? 

        If you choose to keep blinders on to this corruption so be it.  But there is no accountability in PA, there is no way to prove the validity of those late ballots in PA, and the very acceptance of ballots after the set date of the election is un-constitutional.

        PA is obviously acting negligently and that puts all others that are dragging their feet and making Trump's lead disappear be put into question as well (IE - Georgia).

        This is becoming more akin to those Eastern European elections by the day. 

        But the American people were told this was what was going to happen, repeatedly by the media, that this would drag on, and what appeared a Trump victory would become a Biden win.

        The script was written well in advance.

        1. savvydating profile image90
          savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Well stated overall, except that the media did not tell us what was going to happen.... with the exception of Newsmax and a handful of conservative publications.  American conservatives (overall) are exceptionally naïve. Many here have even become apologists for  Democrats. It is no wonder that voter fraud is being committed so easily this election year.

          If voters in GA, PA, NV and AZ would call their state representatives and insist upon a proper count, it could make a difference. Why? Because those representatives recoil in terror if they get about 30 calls (usually much less). But instead, Republicans remain polite in the hope that everything will "work out" and that the election process "will be fair."

          How foolish.

          You are correct in saying, "The script was written well in advance."

          Thank you for pointing that out.

          1. crankalicious profile image93
            crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            There's no fraud. Both Arizona and Georgia are run by Republicans and their rules were made by Republicans and Trump's lawsuits were dismissed by Republicans.

            However, if they know there's fraud, then by all means, bring the evidence to court and make your case.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Want to bet that a 4 year "investigation" with all the resources of the FBI behind it would not find some fraud?  big_smile

          2. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            +1000000000000

        2. crankalicious profile image93
          crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, they were told this, because in many states they count the mail-in ballots after the in-person ballots. The in-person ballots favored Trump in many places while the mail-in ballots favor Biden. It's actually pretty simple.

          As I understand it, we should stop counting in all the places where Biden is gaining and keep counting in Arizona where Trump is gaining.

          Once again, the popular vote favors the Democratic candidate, so perhaps we can take solace in the fact that, if Biden wins, the will of the people is being carried out. Four million more people voted for Biden.

          It's funny we don't hear about the massive fraud that obviously took place this year in Florida that allowed Trump to win as well as the massive fraud that took place in 2016 that allowed Trump to win. My understanding is that Democrats were distracted by huge child sex trafficking set up by Republicans and forgot to vote.

        3. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          You may be correct, but before I would make such a claim I would have to have proof of it.

          1. crankalicious profile image93
            crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I have absolutely no problem with establishing a national mail-in, bipartisan, commission to create standards so that everyone can have confidence in the process.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              My only problem with that is that the federal government would once more be usurping what was the states control.  Of course, the idea of congress doing anything that could negatively affect a political party's power and still have confidence in it is rather comical. sad

          2. Ken Burgess profile image91
            Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            The proof is that they collected and tallied mail-in ballots after the election, days after, knowing that, I don't need to know anything else.

            The fate of the Nation is in the hands of GA.

            Should the Dems secure the majority in the Senate, we will see sweeping changes to our country.  Changes that make what the Obama Admin pushed through (IE ACA) seem moderate in comparison.

            The economy is set to struggle, at best, so those who didn't or weren't able to prepare for difficult times in the coming years I feel for them

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Trump could survive losing GA...if he took Pa, NC, Az and Nv.  So no, Pa is holding the reins, and Trump has lost.

              But I highly disagree with states legally accepting ballots after Nov. 3 as proof of fraud; it is up to states to set the rules for voting.  Even though having 4 of 5 states tailing the rest in counting being states that went R last time and now switches to D leaves a real stink it is not "proof" of anything.

              The economy: I predict a rise to what it was with the advent of a vaccine.  Then a slowing or decline for the next 2-3 years as the Democrat agenda of slapping business and forcing it to move offshore reinstates itself, of ever higher taxation to fund their give-away programs (now to include 20+ illegal aliens).  On the plus side we will save money by firing ICE and the border patrol but it won't come close to cancelling out the negatives.

              And if THAT happens we will surely see a Republican back in office in 4 years, not 8.  Even if Biden is physically/mentally able to run again (doubtful) he will lose as the economy tanks.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image91
                Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                You are missing much of the larger picture, the Global Compact for Migration, Agenda 2030, etc. very real policies of the UN and International Agencies that were put on pause while Trump held office because he did not support them.

                As for GA, when I said the fate of the Nation was in its hands... it is... because I was talking about the two Senate seats that are going to runoff elections.  If they go to the Democrats then the Democrats will have total control of Congress and the Executive Office and will be able to do whatever they want, change the amount of Justices on the Supreme Court, Raise Taxes, reinstall the Penalties for not having Insurance, institute a Social Credit system, etc.

                Trade will quickly revert to favoring China and giving tax breaks to corporations that move their HQs overseas... essentially everything good that did come out of Trump's Administration will be undone, and the siphoning of wealth and jobs from Americans will be back on track as it had been the 25 years prior to Trump.

                Trump's four years was just a pause, he would have needed another four years to truly reverse some of these trends and strengthen the American position against China's growing global dominance and the efforts of International Corporatism.

                Now we get back to America's economic decline and the disaffection with National Sovereignty and adherence to the Constitution above all.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Ah!  The Senate.  Yes, that makes sense in that context.

                  You've said the same thing about the economy I did; I just see an improvement until Biden and the D's get their fingers into the pot again, whereupon it will tank.

                  1. crankalicious profile image93
                    crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Where in history has that happened? Democrats tanking the economy? I can show you a few Republican examples - too little regulation causing massive problems.

            2. crankalicious profile image93
              crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              This seems to be the state of things these days - so many people accepting the truth of something with no proof.

              Ballots submitted prior to and on Election Day should be counted. If there is evidence of fraud, then that is for the courts. So far, every Trump accusation has been tossed out as frivolous because they haven't presented any evidence. If they have evidence, then present it in the courts.

              Given the last 30 or so years, this seems like more denial of reality and facts.

              Also, I'm sure Trump, if he loses, will run again in 2024.

              Don't know why you would assume the economy would tank. It did just fine under Obama. It tanked under Bush. And it wasn't regulation, but deregulation that did that. And it did fine under Clinton. In fact, if you look at history, the stock market and economy does better under Democrats.

              This seems like more denial of reality and facts. It's not factual that there's voting fraud. It's not factual that, in the last thirty years, the economy has done better under Republicans than Democrats.

              I will say this though, I just saw Nancy Pelosi say that Biden has a "tremendous mandate". I don't know what fantasy world she's living in, but that's the exact opposite of what I want to hear Democrats say. I want to hear about a country divided and about working together and about focusing on what the Republicans and Democrats have in common and focusing on those things in a bi-partisan way. I do agree that if Democrats think they have a mandate, they'll be out of office in 4 years. The Democrats can secure power if they focus on all the things we agree on and work to diminish the chaos.

              1. jackclee lm profile image84
                jackclee lmposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                The proof rests on verifying all the ballots mailed in are valid. This will take time to determine and if Biden wins fair and square, I am fine with the results. We get the government we deserve, another four years we will get a new chance to choose.
                What is not clear at this point is - are all the mail in ballot valid?

              2. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                "In fact, if you look at history, the stock market and economy does better under Democrats."

                Is that because it takes several years for either excessive taxation OR excessive regulation to be reflected in the economy?  And vice versa, of course - it takes time for poor policies to show up in the economy?

                That would explain why it seems that overtaxing and over regulating business seems to work under D's, and the opposite under R's.  Makes sense to me, at least.

                1. crankalicious profile image93
                  crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Doesn't that mean that Obama's policies made the Trump economy?

      3. crankalicious profile image93
        crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Sounds like common sense stuff, Wilderness. We should just have a national standard for mail-in voting. However, our system is set up to allow each state to set up its own rules. Funny how states rights don't seem so important suddenly.

        Having said that, there should be a set of standards so we can all have confidence in the process.

        1. Kayode Doyak profile image60
          Kayode Doyakposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Yeah, how can you create confidence  in this? How can you create confidence in a system that, as you will see, can easily be corrupted - nefarious people do not abide by the rules.

          https://79days.news/watch?id=5fa61c18d3c7821df7492cde

          1. crankalicious profile image93
            crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Which is why there are monitors from both parties watching the count.

          2. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I did not watch the hour and a half of your cell phone video of another cell phone video with people saying they don't know what is happening; it may be fraud.

            But what I did see did not show fraud.  It reminded me of the video I watched of someone pulling a red wagon into a polling station late at night, with a black box that "looked like boxes used for ballots" and indicated fraud.  It was a cameraman setting up for the next day taking a common electronics carrier with his camera gear in.

            1. crankalicious profile image93
              crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              It also reminds me of the poor poll worker in Georgia being terrorized because somebody posted a similar video of them ripping up a piece of paper and the videographer suggested it was a ballot. Except it turned out it wasn't a ballot. (we don't know the poll worker's political affiliation, but he, along with other people on both sides, are victims of this kind of conspiratorial vigilantism)

              And now the poll worker, a volunteer, is in hiding and fearing for his life.

              What's sad is that Trump is riling up his supporters, asking them to go find things while saying there's fraud but not having any evidence himself. Meanwhile, his own advisers are telling him he really has few legal avenues because they don't have any proof of any fraud. His original charges were systemic - STOP COUNTING.

              Except at the point he said that, he would have lost.

              None of it really makes much sense. He obviously wants it to be true and hopes to force it into existence. It's very cult-like. His followers just believe whatever he says whether he provides proof or not.

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                I dunno, Crank.  While I certainly sympathize with your example poll worker, I'm not surprised that the rabid right is behaving badly.  Not after what has been done the past 4 years to their god/king and now they (that unspecified "they" that always seems present everywhere) have fraudulently stolen the election.  Nor is it taking Trump to "rile them up"; they are quite capable of doing it themselves.  Blame that part of the problem on the increasing violence and increasing acceptance of violence for the past year.  It has become the norm to step outside of ethical/moral behavior to get what you want, and Trump did not start that.  Not this time around.

                1. crankalicious profile image93
                  crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Let me quote you:

                  "It has become the norm to step outside of ethical/moral behavior to get what you want."

                  I agree, Trump did not start it. However, that sentence describes him well.

                  Violence has been a tool for many years of those who believe their rights are being violated and of those who do the violating. It's not new.

                  I acknowledge and understand the point you are trying to make and don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment. It's just not even remotely new during times of turmoil.

  2. Live to Learn profile image75
    Live to Learnposted 11 months ago

    I haven't read through all of the answers here. At this juncture, because so many have so many reservations, because this entire process has been so novel across so many states, because the process has been so undermined....I wish one state would step up to the plate and agree to have all ballots reviewed to prove validity.

    If there is no evidence of fraud, of votes from outside of state, of votes by dead people, and if there are no votes by non citizens we can all sigh a breath of relief and have our faith restored.

    If not, then all states should insist on following suit. I don't care who wins,as long as it is fair and legal.

    1. Kayode Doyak profile image60
      Kayode Doyakposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Absolutely!

      The media, what am I saying? I mean the Democratic Party state propaganda media (including Fox and the others like the Wall Street journal) are “inaugurating” a president whose election results have not been certified by any state, totally ignoring reporting on all the stories of fraud and implausible results like these.

      https://youtu.be/pCEfiV5L0ig

      https://youtu.be/84QOspRI9Sw

      This is the behavior of a tyrannical banana republic’s media.

      Have you even seen this reported on anywhere in the media?

      https://hubstatic.com/15270257.jpg

      1. Live to Learn profile image75
        Live to Learnposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Which is why we need faith restored.  We don't need another 4 years with a candidate whining like Hillary did.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          +100000000

        2. crankalicious profile image93
          crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Hillary whined for four years? I must have missed that. She hasn't been in the news for three years and eleven months. Is she in jail yet?

          What I did hear was Trump whining about his crowd sizes and a fraudulent vote from 2016 that meant he really won the popular vote. He whined even though he won. Anytime things don't go his way, he whines and blames somebody else. Whiniest President ever.

          The perfect metaphor for Trump's presidency was the moment Biden was declared the winner: Trump was golfing and COVID was spreading through the White House unchecked. Apropos, no?

          Hillary conceded. Obama invited Trump to the White House.

          We'll see if either of those things happen, I guess.

          What we need is for all these conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists to go away.

          1. Live to Learn profile image75
            Live to Learnposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I'm always comparing the left to fringe religious groups.  Your post compliments my sentiments. You guys talk about covid like it's a sin.  Someone did something wrong to get it.

            Sheesh. I can't even respond to what I see as fanaticism.

            1. crankalicious profile image93
              crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Getting COVID is bad when you openly mock the very things that will help prevent you from getting it. It's also idiocy. Further, Mark Meadows didn't bother to tell anyone he had it for some time, thereby exposing others to the virus. So yes, he did something wrong. He didn't care enough to take standard safety measures and he didn't care enough to at least warn other people he had it. Thus, it spreads more.

              Actively putting others in danger, not caring, golfing, ignoring facts. Kind of says it all.

          2. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Hillary is what Trumpers revert to when they got nothiin'.

  3. profile image0
    Marisa Writesposted 11 months ago

    I'm perplexed by the American voting system.  We are a federation in Australia, too.  The states are not allowed to get their fingers on anything to do with the federal elections.  State elections are run by states.  But the federal elections are run by an independent Electoral Commission.  There is one set of rules for the Federal election and they apply equally across the whole country.   It's an obvious step to make sure states can't get up to any shenanigans.

    1. Live to Learn profile image75
      Live to Learnposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Sounds like a plan but we have a historic distrust in government. For all the arguing and distrust we have it would be ten times worse if the federal government had run this election.

      1. profile image0
        Marisa Writesposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        All the more reason to have an independent body that isn't run by any government, then?

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Who gets to be on this independent body, and how do they get there?  Is it composed of the man-in-the-street, or of politicians voted onto the body?  How are the people represented - one per district or one per million people (obviously just numbers, but hopefully you will pick up the meaning)?  How is it funded - by government, by deep pockets of a few or by donations from the masses?  What are the avenues to disagree with decisions by that body?  Are the laws it creates binding (without recourse to an elected legislature) or is there recourse if the people don't like them?

          Lots of questions, and potential problems, with another body independent of the law makers that are nevertheless making laws.  If that makes sense.

          1. profile image0
            Marisa Writesposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I can't answer all the technical details.  All the US has to do is see how it works, smoothly and effectivley,  in a very large number of other countries

 
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