Prompted by an exchange between Credence2 and Wilderness.
Wilderness respoinded with:
Looking at this Census map about U.S. population density, (ignore all colors except Red and darker orange), you will see just how small a portion of our nation can politically, (by votes), control the entirety of our nation.
I agree with Credence2, as our population increases and the population densities increase, large cities, states, and population centers will have different perspectives than rural America. But, I also agree with Wilderness. Rural America is a much larger portion of our nation, and has a much stronger attraction to the principles of individualism, and personal responsibility, (I think), than those high density areas.
Will we change as a nation when, (not if), those high population areas can control the entirety of our nations population? I like the "Marlboro man" philosophy of life.So I am with Wilderness. Unfortunately, I see the tide flowing Cred's way. So, I am moving to the mountains for my final years. My kid's are intelligent and know my views, so their future is in their hands.
Turning your life over to 'the government' is just plain wrong.
You will always a right to your opinion, GA
"Rural America is a much larger portion of our nation, and has a much stronger attraction to the principles of individualism, and personal responsibility, (I think), than those high density areas."
These are standard conservative talking points that are a matter of opinion.
If I took one a rural person of individualism and personal responsibility and placed him in downtown LA, he would have to adapt to the fact that there are 6 million people that would also like to live life by their own personal prerogative not giving thought to their neighbors. But we just can't do as we like, can we? There are almost 350 millions here, the Marlboro Man and Country are just a fantasies, difficult to find even in rural areas, as you ar always trespassing on somebody's property.
It is a fantasy that you can shake loose of the modern world. I lived among the Crow Tribe in Montana and while the whites plied them with federal housing, food, and some financial compensation for what was taken from them, they still lament about a lost way of life, hunting and gathering. Is it realistic to think that they can revert to a 19th Century lifestyle? Or is it a fantasy that is simply no longer possible?
These rural people are not so great as is the environment allow them perogatives not available to city people, that is all.
"you ar always trespassing on somebody's property."
LOL My state of Idaho has 32 million acres of federal land. Arizona has 28 million acres of federal land. Alaska - 224 million acres of federal land. Nevada has 60 million acres of federal land. Oregon has 32 million acres of federal land. Utah has 34 million acres of federal land. Even Florida has 4.5 million acres of federal land within it's borders.
In total, the US has 624 million acres of federal land. Enough for anyone willing to get more than a few miles out of town to find someplace to walk where they won't be trespassing. Even a city boy could do it, though he probably can't find his way back to his sports car.
Federally owned land is still not yours to do as you like, am I free to build a house on such land?
Who would dare tell the Marlboro man that he can't do what he wants?
Are you trying to imply that the morass of rules and regulations in NYC are reasonable and proper in a village (pop 50) in the center of Montana? That a rancher cannot raise a horse, or ride it? That the village homeowner cannot put a flagpole in their front yard? That the pickup truck used on the farm must be safety checked every year? That the rancher's kid cannot have a rifle on the rack in their pickup?
Marlboro man is, for the most part, willing to abide by laws necessary for the good of the community. But. The laws of the "community" of LA or Seattle are not relevant to the village in central Montana, and neither is the philosophy and political agenda that brought them into existence.
No body said that what is good for Hardin Montana is good for New York City, it is obvious that you are missing the point.
Yes, your rancher can raise a horse and ride it but he is fenced in as to how far he can go unchallenged.
Whether you like it or not, there is a national government and the will of the majority of the people must prevail if it is to be called a democracy. No one is going to care about vast amounts of real estate that is relatively uninhabited, relative to that.
In a national setting, Mayberry can not insist on its own laws relative to LA, that due to population factors which cannot be ignored. To the extent that you have local control for these Mayberrys that will have to do. But, as has happened in Colorado and other states with growing urban populations, Mayberry, the cowboys and the sod busters and their desires will have to take a back seat.
Seriously, what is your solution to all this outside of griping about the fact that the sun rises every morning and in all probability will continue to do so for foreseeable future?
You need to go to Alaska where there is still space to live out your fantasy or rent a holodeck program.
Are you talking about separate America, one containing Hoovervilles and other inhabited by city slickers?
Love your logic. I saw the changing tides many years ago and have split my time between the US and Mexico. Took a drastic step to become acquainted with another country, making a home that offers me peace. I came to realize America could become a place I no longer recognized or wanted to be burdened by. Not that I don't love her, just love the sense of freedom more.
" Rural America is a much larger portion of our nation and has a much stronger attraction to the principles of individualism, and personal responsibility, (I think), than those high density areas.
Will we change as a nation when, (not if), those high population areas can control the entirety of our nations population?"
Yes, and the Marlboro man will need to abide by the rule of the majority. No matter how far he travels he will still answer and live by that majority rule. However, the scenery will be much more pleasant. And who knows the tide could turn.
You may be right (Marlboro man will lose out)...or you may not. I'm seeing many reports that our cities are losing population, not gaining it. Cities like Chicago, Los Angelos, NYC and others have long grown mostly from foreign immigrants, but the trend is reversing and they are losing people now.
As living conditions, and the political atmosphere, deteriorate in our cities people don't like it. They don't like it when their beautiful city turns into a tent city for the homeless. They don't like it when riots are a daily affair. They don't like it when local taxes head for the stratosphere. They don't like it when drugs and violence become a daily part of their lives.
And they "vote" with their feet. The question is whether they are smart enough to recognize the roots of their dissatisfaction or not; the common joke here is that California is moving to Idaho to get away from those things...and turning Idaho into another California as they bring the philosophy with them that caused the deterioration of California. And there is some truth to that, too.
https://www.cbsnews.com/media/12-major- … shrinking/
https://reason.com/2019/09/10/its-not-a … opulation/
Surely, it's not a larger portion of your nation. Your nation is your people, not the land they occupy. The fact that you happen to have large tracts of almost empty space is neither here nor there, the same as Australia. The land itself does not wield power or decide politics.
When large numbers of people live close together, rules are necessary because (as recent events have proved), a very large percentage of the population is just plain dumb. They are too stupid to behave sensibly and too ornery to respect other people's rights.
I'm not convinced that country people are all smart and respectful either, just quietly.
Societies change, some of the changes are thought to be positive, some are not. People disagree.
I have a feeling the indigenous people of this continent did not and do not have such a rosy view of your Marlboro Man culture. Just one example.
The world is changing and we all have to get used to it.
When the US and Australia started out, the colonists were overwhelmingly British and brought British culture with them. From that time on, different waves of immigrants have been the cause of massive cultural changes.
For instance, the huge influx of Greeks and Italians after WWII made Australia's culture far more European than British. At one time, Melbourne was the second largest Greek city in the world. British migrants are often surprised how un-British we are, even though we still speak English! Though there was a lot of prejudice at the time, that "Mediterraneanising" transformation was fairly peaceful - perhaps because those migrants were white.
In the last 20 years, the influx is from China, Malaysia, India and the MIddle East. As with the Mediterranean migrants, whole suburbs have been taken over and their reach is expanding. There is a lot more pushback from "white Australians" who feel they are going to lose their culture.
The silly thing is that the current European-influenced culture in Australia has only been in existence since the 1950's, so what is the big deal? The world changes, like I said.
I would think that has at least some parallels in the US?
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