Was Trump was right - about returning to work by Easter?

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  1. Ken Burgess profile image88
    Ken Burgessposted 16 months ago

    The new unemployment claims numbers came out today...3.28million.

    That number will only grow as the Corona Lock Down continues.

    The majority of Americans don't even have $1,000 in the bank to cover emergencies.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-am … gency.html

    Most companies have less than a month's cash reserves to keep their business, in business.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/03/18/81768626 … nt-survive


    Another major problem that will arise within a month... no more supplies.

    Today shelves are being restocked... but the warehouses across the nation are being emptied out.  Soon, the shelves will be empty and so will the warehouses.  This pandemic panic to by canned foods, dry foods, paper materials has been nationwide, and the 'supply lines' cannot produce and replace those products fast enough to meet demand.

    By mid April if we are not 'going back to normal' we may well begin to see a collapse of society on a national scale.  We have seen pockets of it in the past, the looting that went on in blackout of NYC in 1977, the 1992 Los Angeles riots, but this has the possibility of hitting any and every major urban center around the same time. If things do not 'go back to normal' soon.

    1. Nathanville profile image94
      Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Depends what you put first; the elderly (particular those over 70) and people with underlining illnesses e.g. people with diabetes (people who are a drain on the economy anyway); or the economy itself.

      You paint a bleak picture for America, and from what I’ve seen on CNN News I don’t dispute your graphic description.

      In Europe, it’s going to be tough, and economies will go into recession, no doubt about that.  But we are coping, and we will survive with continuing with the lock-down and social-distancing for however long it takes; war time spirit.

      In Britain in particular, businesses will go bust, some already have; and unemployment will be at an all-time high once the pandemic is over.  But, every employee in Britain who isn’t working because of the lock-down e.g. those not in essential services such as supermarkets and the NHS etc., are being paid 80% of their normal wages, by the Government; and (as announced today) most self-employed people will now also be paid 80% of what they would normally earn, by the Government.  So that during the period where the British economy is shut down, most people will continue to have an income to pay their bills and buy food.

      Food is being rationed (restricted) in the UK, but just as in wartime Britain over 70 years ago; people will be fed (we will not starve).  Currently; priority for food is NHS staff first, elderly 2nd, and everybody else 3rd.

      1. Ken Burgess profile image88
        Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Well that sounds like a rational plan for the UK, time will tell how successful it will be, and for how long.

        Without knowing more it appears at least that the 80% for those not working is a better means of dealing with the problem than what the US has come up with... if indeed, they have gotten past all the squabbling to pass something that would get money to Americans.

        I have a hard time believing it until I see it, I suspect since my family has never fit into one of those 'qualify for assistance' niches that we will also be passed over for this.

        1. Nathanville profile image94
          Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Yep, when the pandemic is over experts will be carefully analysing the data and statistics on how each nation dealt the virus crisis, the impact it had on saving lives, the social impact and the effect on the economies; and there will be ‘Lessons Learnt’ for future planning.

          If Italy is anything to go by three weeks isn’t going to be long enough to bring the pandemic under control; it’s more likely to be closer to three months (maybe longer) before we even begin to see any return to normality; and once the lock-down is lifted in the UK, Social-Distancing could still be strictly applied for another six months to year e.g. until a vaccine is developed and distributed.

          I don’t know to what level the USA is in lock-down/Social-Distancing; I find the News Reports on CNN News confusing, with each State seemingly doing its own thing?

          In the UK the entire population (except for key workers) was put into quarantine (lock-down) Monday evening.  So, that now, we can no longer leave our homes unless it’s to :-

          1.    Buy food
          2.    Medical Reasons
          3.    To exercise once a day, or
          4.    Go to work if you are a key worker

          The strict rule on exercise in the UK is that you are only allowed to go out once a day to exercise; and to keep at least 2 metres (6 feet, 6 inches) from anyone else you meet.  And if you do go out in the UK you are not allowed to be in groups of more than two people. 

          Britain is now in a State of Emergency, the Police have been given ‘Special Powers’, and Parliament closed down today, until further notice; leaving the Government in total control.  The State of Emergency Laws, giving the  Government ‘Emergency Powers’ was passed by Parliament two days ago.

          To enforce the State of Emergency police are putting up road blocks around the country, and patrolling the streets to prevent people from travelling unless it’s for one of the four reasons listed above.  Anyone found flouting the ‘emergency laws’ e.g. for reasons other than listed above, or people gathering in groups of more than two, will be liable to a fine of £60 for a 1st offence, which doubles for each subsequent offence (£120 for 2nd offence, £240 for 3rd offence etc.).  The police have also been given powers to arrest anyone breaking these laws, and the maximum offence of deliberating coughing on a Police Officer is 2 years prison.

          I don’t know how this compares with the USA?

          But one nice touch tonight (in Britain), a morale boost for the NHS, who are at the front line in fighting this virus, is that the nation was called upon to show their support and appreciation of the NHS, by going to their front doors at 8pm and applauding; as shown in the video below:-

          Brits applaud NHS frontline healthcare workers nationwide: https://youtu.be/AHfHMvH7owo

          1. Ken Burgess profile image88
            Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            I am impressed, would not have expected the UK to be so far ahead of the US in dealing with this in a firm and decisive way.

            We have a thing called Nancy Pelosi, and another thing called AOC here in America... I suspect our death toll to be in the tens of thousands before our Left-wing branch of the government (the House) decides to actually allow something to be done.

            Yes, the States are being allowed to run things as they see fit, but as California, Oregon, New York, etc. (all the progressive/liberal disaster states of America) fail to properly deal with the pandemic, the Federal government will have to step in, eventually.

            The Left-wing media is trying hard to put all the blame on Trump, undermining everything he says or does, taking things out of context and fabricating false information to make it even worse, I thought I couldn't have a lower opinion of our News sources and their bias... I was wrong, the way they have handled this pandemic shows we have lunatics running our major media outlets.

            We are essentially, a divided country incapable of unifying and dealing with any crisis in a productive way.  Our politicians and media are failing America.

            1. IslandBites profile image90
              IslandBitesposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Wow. SMH

              Disgusting.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image88
                Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Yes, its rather pathetic how Pelosi and AOC are holding up the Relief Aid for their lunatic pet projects.

                If we had an honest media to hold them accountable, Aid would already be getting to the States and American people.

                Instead we have people who belong in an insane asylum, that somehow found their way into the House of Representatives, holding America hostage.

                1. crankalicious profile image94
                  crankaliciousposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Ken,

                  You missed an opportunity to blame Obama!

                  If you'll recall the bail-out in 2008, both the Right and the Progressive Left were pissed that corporations received so much of the bail-out money when many of the were the ones that cause the problem in the first place. This is where we saw both the rise of the Tea Party movement and left-wing movements like Occupy Wall Street.

                  Arguments over the current bill center around the so-called slush fund being set up that would allow Treasury Secretary Mnuchin to dole out $500 billion without any oversight. Further, as I understand it, that fund can be replenished, putting the total funds to nearly $5 trillion dollars.

                  Should we be allowing Mnuchin to dole out that money as he sees fit with no Congressional oversight?

                  That's the core of the argument.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image88
                    Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    The core of the argument was pork and pet projects.

                    The House Democrats knew they had the President, the Senate, and the Country by the jewels, and did everything they could to take advantage of it.

                    If they were ONLY concerned about oversight, they could have had it put in there and it would have passed by Tuesday.

                    I don't know who you are trying to convince with that absurd statement, yourself, or those who are ignorant of what went on this week who may read this.

                    https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/dem … -projects/

                    Also, who cares about Obama.

                    And, who cares about what they did in 2008, that was small potatoes to what is occurring now.  As I have noted in my opening post.

                    Although, you could say one of the major problems we had back in 2008 was Pelosi, and the biggest problem we have now is Pelosi, funny how the politicians we can't get rid of after 8 years are such a cancer to the country.

            2. Nathanville profile image94
              Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Yep, I’m impressed too; but not totally surprised because historically e.g. during the Great Depression of the 1930’s and the two world wars, ‘For The Sake of the Nation’ British politicians have always put politics (and their political differences) to one-side and formed a National Government (an apolitical government that incorporates all political parties working together for a common cause).

              And during this crisis; in typical British fashion during a State of Emergency, Boris Johnson (Prime Minister) has had the full support, and full backing, from all political parties, and the House of Lords; so that all the necessary Legislation could be passed by Parliament within a day or two, without delay, and without Amendments.

              Even with British Manufacturers, the ‘war time’ spirit is kicking in.  The NHS currently has 8,000 ventilators, and will soon have another 8,000 from other parts of Europe; but with an estimated need of 30,000 ventilators at the peak of the pandemic in the UK, which they expect to be by the end of April; they need a further 14,000 ventilators to meet their target.  So British Car Maker McLaren and Airbus (British aeroplane manufacturer) have formed a consortium which can be in full production by next week to make 4,000 ventilators by the end of April, and Dyson (a British Manufacturer of vacuum cleaners) also plans to be in full production within 10 days to make 15,000 ventilators by the end of April, 10,000 for the NHS, and 5,000 for other countries.

              Dyson to produce 10,000 ventilators to tackle pandemic in Britain:- https://youtu.be/Xj44w4f3MYE

              1. Ken Burgess profile image88
                Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                We have some hope here in America, from pioneering entrepreneur Musk getting involved:

                https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/03/te … ntilators/

                To Ford and the Ford family stepping up and getting involved as well.

                https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyfeldman … 2752693dc2

                Of course it didn't hurt that the President asked them to do so:

                https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru … production

                The President is trying hard to keep this from becoming a Martial Law type of scenario, not imposing the Defense Production Act or any other War Powers and allowing the States to deal with it.

                His job would be far easier if the House would actually allow the Coronavirus Relief Package to pass without trying to attach every non-critical pet project and progressive payout (things that would never get through the Senate otherwise) to it.

                In the end, the House by dragging this out, and not passing the Relief Act days ago, may well force America into a situation where Martial Law may be the only option available to keep things under control when this drags on for weeks more.

                1. CHRIS57 profile image62
                  CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  All this reminds me of a little story about an appartment building on fire at night. Goes like this:
                  Once upon a time a big house with many tenants caught fire. There was smoke all over the place. Families had to be rescued by brave firemen Sams. Next day newspapers were full of stories about brave heroes who had rescued many people.
                  ... nobody talked about those who had their smoke detectors in place and working, who simple led their families safely outside.

                  In the US there are either no smoke detectors or the were deliberately ignored. But of course, the US has lots of heroes. Sorry to be a little sarcastic.

                  The dynamics of infection rate and death rate is quite stunning. Just divide 70 by the daily increase (in percent) and you have the doubling period (should be now 2,8 days for infection and 2 days for mortality).
                  Divide 230 by increase rate and you have the magnitude (x 10) period.
                  Simple math (natural logarithm ln).
                  If Covid 19 is not stopped or slowed by social distancing, within 10 days it will pass the first million infected in the US. It will take 8 days or less for 10.000 deaths.
                  It took China some 3 months to get stable. I dare say that social distancing without full isolation will slow the process. So we (in the West) will need almost double (4-6 months).

                  A good number to estimate what is really happening may be to compare natural mortality with corona cases. Outbreak (first 100 infected) was March 4th. From that date on some 250 to 260 thousand people died in the US. Compare this with the Corona deaths. So i have some sympathy for recent word from Trump about the medicine and the disease.

                  Economic fallout will be tremendous. Easily doubles Lehman crisis from 2007/2008. The medicine will be really expensive.

                  A last sarcastic note: I hope it will remove all those Zombie corporations who until now had only survived from cheap money drugs.

                  Overall a sad situation, but something to correct had to be coming economically with all the money printing from central banks.

                  1. Nathanville profile image94
                    Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    The only point I would like to add is that it’s only the USA (and apparently Russia) who are using the approach of ‘Social Distancing’ without full isolation, and not the ‘West’ as you stated.

                    Countries across Europe (including the UK) where the virus has started to spread out of control have ALL gone into lock-down (curfew 24/7).

                    In comparing the stats you provide for the USA with the UK:

                    USA, first 100 infected on 4th March.  Current total of deaths from the virus stands at 1,295.

                    UK, first 100 infected on 5th March.  Current total of deaths from the virus stands at 578.

                    Noting from your figures that mortality from the virus in America is doubling every two days.  In the UK, deaths from the virus started to rise sharply on the 14th March; and doubled every two days until the 19th March.  It then slowed to doubling every 3 days until the 22nd March, then from the 22nd March until now it had taken 4 days for the deaths to double again.

                2. Nathanville profile image94
                  Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, it is good how manufacturers can switch production fast and efficiently during a time of crisis, just as happened during the 2nd world war.  Others I’ve heard of in Britain are two wineries who switched from making wine to sanitizers for the NHS, and another Company who voluntarily (altruistically) put up £20 million of its own money to manufacture medical equipment for the NHS.

                  Boris Johnson (UK Prime Minister) initially tried the soft approach of Social Distancing, but it proved not to be effective enough e.g. people were still coming in contact with each other and passing the virus on throughout the community. 

                  Therefore, like many European Countries have already done, Boris felt he had no choice other than Martial Law, and a FULL CURFEW (24/7).  And it’s not so bad either (the typical British wartime spirit); the Nation (the people), the public and the businesses alike, are in full support of the lock-down (curfew 24/7), because we know it is ‘The Right Thing to Do’.  Full curfew (lock-down) is the only way to effectively stop the speed of the virus. 

                  I don’t know how effective the measures, that America is taking, will be (time will tell); but for Americans to return to work by Easter, as Trump wants, will undo any good that those measures may have had, and quicken the spread of the virus.

            3. Nathanville profile image94
              Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Yes, your last paragraph “We are essentially, a divided country incapable of unifying and dealing with any crisis in a productive way.  Our politicians and media are failing America” says it all.

              I’ve been following these debates in this and other related forums, and despair at the way American’s are tearing each other apart at a time when unity is so much needed “together we stand, divided we fall”.

              You don’t see political discord in European counties.  At a crisis time like this European citizens and opposition political parties are giving their respective governments’ full support to fight this virus (the common enemy); politics are being put to one side for the duration, just as happened in wartime Europe during the 2nd world war (The wartime spirit).

              Even when this crisis is over, there will be no political incrimination in Europe; that would be in bad taste.  We will do what we did in the aftermath of the 2nd world war, not dwell on the past, but focus on the future e.g. rebuilding our economies; that’s when the politics will start again in Europe (how best to rebuild our economies).

              As regards to references of CNN and Fox News, which creep into these debates; I can only speak from a British perspective:-

              The only American News Channel we get on British TV is CNN.  I do regularly watch CNN to see what an American News Channel is telling Americans about Britain; and from my observations CNN does a reasonably good job at providing the facts some of the time; but, all too often the presenters do put political spin on their reporting of events in Britain (which at times is tantamount to propaganda) and occasionally CNN misrepresent the facts about Britain through ignorance.  But on balance, it’s fairly representative of the facts about Britain most of the time.

              As regards Fox News, I do occasionally view their News Report of Britain from YouTube; but it’s not a News Channel I watch because more often than not, too many of the Fox News Reports on Britain is ‘Fake News’; and what isn’t fake news is almost invariably propaganda or deliberate political spin.

              Likewise, Trump is rather apt at lying when making comments about the UK; the most recent lie told by Trump being yesterday when he boasted that America manufacturers will be coming to the UK and Europe’s rescue by supplying us with the much needed ventilators.  Whereas, in actual fact, it’s Dyson (a British manufacturer of vacuum cleaners) who will be producing the bulk of the ventilators that our NHS will need:  Not only is Dyson making the 10,000 ventilators the NHS has asked for, but they are also making a further 5,000 ventilators voluntarily to ‘donate’ to other countries in need (as humanitarian aid).

              •    Dyson (British Manufacturer) Develops Ventilator for COVID-19 patients in 10 days https://youtu.be/kLsyUg-ldSk

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                That's great when manufacturers leave their product behind to help in a crises with a totally different product.  We're seeing it in car manufacturers making ventilators.

                But I'm confused that Trump said we would ship ventilators to Europe; he specifically said that varying specifications prohibit American ventilators from being used over there.  Someone isn't telling "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" or there is a faux Donald Trump out there somewhere.

                1. Nathanville profile image94
                  Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Not wishing to be political at a time like this; Trump does seem to be frequently contradicting himself from one day to the next!

                  I'm sure he said it just to sound magnanimous.

                2. Ken Burgess profile image88
                  Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  It's obvious Nathan believes CNN is a legit news source, he has tried to convince me of this in the past.

                  It is a wasted effort, as I have stated in the past, this goes beyond my belief or feelings, to actual events I have been involved in that were reported 100% falsely by CNN.

                  The perks of having 'boots on the ground' in foreign lands, and knowing what is actually occurring vs what is reported.

                  Of course, there is still ample evidence of CNN lies to be found, despite the ongoing efforts to remove such from YouTube.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXBIeKpUq_c

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGUPI0ku9HQ

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1sXkA … p;index=14

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9t5dhyqgmM

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUZT5I4L-hs

                  1. Nathanville profile image94
                    Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Nope, if you read carefully what I said, I am not defending CNN as a good News Source.  There are times when they do twist the facts about events in Britian; as I stated above.  But, speaking about their coverage of events in Britain (which is all I can make an observation on) CNN has never 'faked the news' in relation to their reporting of British Current Affairs; whereas FOX news does.

              2. Nathanville profile image94
                Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                The first detailed Public Opinion Poll published today shows the solidarity of support Boris Johnson (British Government) has from the British People for his handling of the COVID-19 crisis in the UK.

                A week prior to the lock-down (curfew 24/7) in the UK:-
                55% of Brits thought he was doing a good job in tackling the virus issue, and
                30% of Brits thought he was doing a bad job.

                On the day of the lock-down (curfew 24/7) last week, in the UK:-
                59% of Brits thought he was doing a good job, and
                31% of Brits thought he was doing a bad job.

                One week after the lock-down (curfew 24/7) today, in the UK:-
                72% of Brits think he’s doing a good job, and
                Only 21% of Brits think he’s doing a bad job.

                When the figures are broken down into political alliance:
                93% of Conservative voters think Boris is doing a good job in handling the virus crisis.
                66% of Liberal Democrats think Boris is doing a good job, and
                Even 56% of Labour (Socialist voters), a healthy majority, thinks Boris is doing a good job.

                When the figures are broken down into age groups:
                60% of 18-24 year olds in Britain think Boris is doing a good job in handling the virus crisis.
                68% of 25-49 year old Brits think Boris is doing a good job
                74% of 50-64 year old Brits think Boris is doing a good job, and
                82% of 65+ year old Brits think Boris is doing a good job.

                1. Ken Burgess profile image88
                  Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I would imagine that has a lot to do with the News media being supportive of the efforts ongoing.

                  The same would probably be true here in America, and Americans would probably be uniting to handle the crisis... but we are not, because most 'news' media is still fully on the attack attempting to make Trump look bad every chance they get (CNN, MSNBC fully guilty of this).

                  And on top of that, we have politicians trying to score personal victories for themselves and the pet projects they champion.

                  In the House... we have everything from AOC wanting to give relief aid to illegal immigrants, to Pelosi pushing an alternate relief package that had everything from solar and wind perks to new regulations on airlines.

                  Divided...

                  1. crankalicious profile image94
                    crankaliciousposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Well, Ken, if those politicians didn't already know how to behave that way, they certainly learned it during Obama's 8 years where Republicans spent every waking moment bashing Obama and trying to delegitimize him as both a President and a human being.

                    Remember Bill O'Reilly, only 90 days into Obama's first term, saying he was a failed President? That's really giving the man a chance.

                    When you've witnessed such hatred toward somebody, why would you behave differently. So sure, it's all the Left's fault.

                  2. Nathanville profile image94
                    Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Not exactly; British Television is heavily Regulated, so the News Media Broadcasted on British Television only report matter-of-factly, as biased and unbalanced reporting on British Television is prohibited under British Broadcasting Laws.

                    What has won the British hearts and minds over (to be fully behind the British Government) isn’t the News Media; it’s the fact that from day one Boris Johnson (quite out of character) has (unlike Trump) been open and honest with the British Public; no hiding the truth, no down-playing the seriousness of the situation, no sugar coating, and no making of false promises.

                    Today’s Government’s Broadcast to the Nation was a simple message “It will get worse before it gets better”, and the UK “could be in total lock-down until at least June”.

                    I note that you haven’t made any criticism of Trump (just as Trump always blames others, never takes any of the blame himself); whereas it takes two to tango e.g. as an observer from across the pond it seems both sides are to blame.

          2. IslandBites profile image90
            IslandBitesposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Yup. That's how it works right now. Each state is issuing their own orders/rules.

            Here in Puerto Rico, we've been under lockdown since March 15. We're also under a curfew from 9pm to 5am. Now it was extended, from March 31 to April 12. The curfew will be from 7pm to 5am. The rules are pretty much the same as yours.

  2. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 16 months ago

    We're faced with two problems. One as devastating as the other. I was listening to a doctor from Johns Hopkins who explained we should, once we hit the top of the curve, start having younger healthy people who are low risk get back to work, handling essential services and other services as the workforce capacity allows. Those higher risk should stay in self quarantine situation for longer.

    It makes sense, on the surface.

  3. IslandBites profile image90
    IslandBitesposted 16 months ago

    Was Trump was right - about returning to work by Easter?

    Apparently, not.

    "The modeling estimates that the peak in death rate is likely to hit in two weeks. I will say it again. The peak, the highest point of death rates, remember this, is likely to hit in two weeks... Therefore, we will be extending our guidelines to April 30, to slow the spread," the president said in the White House Rose Garden.

    1. Ken Burgess profile image88
      Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Indeed, and I expect it will continue well beyond that.

      One doesn't have to do much research to find that out.

      China is still struggling with it, its as bad now as ever there.

      And they always knew... they have been lying to the world.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSdQPtciBRg

 
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