Sweden and Switzerland have no lockdown and are doing well enough.

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   Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago

   They are doing better for lack of covid deaths than many European countries .
   
   Wail over 100 countries protest covid lockdowns all over the world.
   
   https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandem … ut-freedom

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      tsmogposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I think you need to do more research. The article you posted is interesting and shows the frustration of European countries regarding liberty, which is also a concern of Republican politicians here in the U.S.
      
      But, that article does not support the contention that Switzerland and Sweden are better off with how they handled the pandemic. Looking at Statista Covid-19 Deaths per Million through May 12 we see below how they stand out of 155 countries. The list shows deaths per million and ranking from worst to best.
      
      UK 1,905 deaths per million ranked 13th worst
      USA 1,767 deaths per million ranked 16th worst
      Sweden 1,382 deaths per million ranked 28th worst
      Switzerland 1,250 deaths per million ranked 29th worst
      
      and for you
      Canada 656 deaths per million ranked 56th worst
      
      A thorough article sharing Sweden's approach was not the best is The Inside Story of How Sweden Botched its Cornavirus Response may offer some enlightenment.

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         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Sweden from the start, has not ever locked down with covid death ranked 27th in the world. Better per capita than Canada.
         Switzerland ranked 37th.
         
         That report is as onesided as herd mentality leaders.
         
         They is no need to lockdown the economy or relationships over covid. Other than to kill more people over many other ways to die.

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            tsmogposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I gave a list of ranking and deaths per million from Statista. Where are your data coming from and what was the date.
            
            Read the article I posted about Sweden to see, yes, they did do mitigations, yet were not enough. They limited group size, stressed social distancing, closed places like theaters, did not allow entry from other countries, and so forth.
            
            I am not saying lock downs were the correct way to go. I have some doubts. But, the data/facts are just that! People died in Sweden and Switzerland because of Covid.

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               Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               It's a no brainer to choose Sweden decent covid death European stats. Add more Freedom and debatable heath is the best way to go.

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      CHRIS57posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      It is very questionable if fatality rates of much beyond 1000/1M population can be called a success.
      
      Imho the overall performance of a country´s administration in handling Covid19 can be measured like this:
      - fatality rate
      - infection rate
      - ICU occupation rate
      - economic performance
      
      Switzerland and Sweden both have undoubtedly one of the best public health care systems on our planet. So there never was much stress on the hospital ICU capacity.
      
      While i am quite sure that Switzerland imposed some kind of "lockdown light" (like in Germany), Sweden tried to keep everything open and running.
      
      Only - keeping things open - didn´t help much economically. At least if compared to G. Just compare Sweden to peer Scandinavian countries like Norway, Finland or Denmark and you see the real difference and how poorly Sweden really performed. While economic downturn was some 4 .. 5% in 2020 in all countries mentioned, the fatality rate was much lower in peer countries (compared to Sweden: 20% Norway/Finland, 30% Denmark, 60% Germany)
      
      I may be with you that all unnececcary restrictions that accompany lockdowns are questionable in a free democracy. What amazed me is the fact that no economy could escape the downturn, no matter with or without lockdown.
      
      So it all boils down to fatalities. That is an ethic question. Politicians who decided to keep business open see the price now and will have to live with it.

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   MG Singhposted 4 years ago

   I think the figures presented by  Tsmog are telling.  Deaths per million population is good yardstick and I wonder how one can  conclude Swedon and Switzerland  are better off.

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      Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/01/hsbc-ba … -bite.html
      
      Better overall health, economy and relationship because of no lockdowns.

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         CHRIS57posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         This article looks at Norway and Sweden and claims they do well. Well, it is an old article from a period when the second wave had not full unfolded.
         
         Why don´t you just look up the 2020 GDP figures on internet. Norway had a decline of 1,6% while Sweden showed a decline of 5,1%.
         
         Recent fatality count Norway: 142/1M
         Recent fatality count Sweden: 1406/1M
         
         So Norway with early and intensive testing and strict lockdown did much butter than Sweden with its laissez faire attitude.
         
         You can only compare peer countries, or do you want to  compare the USA (fatalities 1804/1M) with lets say Nigeria (10/1M)? Both countries have more than 200 million people, both countries rich on crude oil? You think not comparable? Yes - so why play this game with Sweden and compare with non Scandinavian countries?

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   hard sunposted 4 years ago

   Clearly, no facts you post are going to sway some people at all from thinking that some countries over reacted to COVID. Even presenting the notion that this could be the case seems to be akin to some sort of religious blasphemy in some circles. Thankfully, these circles aren't the prevailing ones where I live, and we haven't done too bad with COVID here either. I had it. It was a drawn out mild flu for me. Did I like it? No. Could there be residual effects? Yes, but not so far. Could there be residual effects of being jabbed a few times in a year with an emergency approved MRNA vaccine. Hell yes there could be but the cool kids don't talk about that.  I understand it's not the same for everyone, but the sky was never going to fall with COVID.
   
   Once again...how about we use this as an example as to why we need more ICU beds and ventilators for those who do get really sick? This is the real issue exposed here IMO...that we apparently cannot deal with an influx of patients resulting from a virus that has such a relatively low hospitalization and death rate. Instead, it's all about fear, money, and control and any suggestions from anyone, including physicians, that we deal with it differently are silenced.

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      wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      How much are we willing to pay for health care?  More beds, more ventilators, more doctors, more nurses, more janitors, larger buildings, more maintenance...it all adds up to higher costs when they sit unused but paid for and we already hear screams every day about the cost of health care.
      
      Are we willing to "insure" our health care system against that "100 year flood" as we do our homes?  I doubt it.  Instead we will refuse the "insurance" and then blame everyone else when the "flood" comes.

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         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, hell of a blaming game.

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         hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         So we cannot treat our fellow humans better than our homes. And then we shame those who don't line up with enthusiasm to get that quickly created cure. Sounds about right. We could do better. I could also argue that this virus, with its relatively low death rate, is not a 100 year event, but more like a 20 year event that was blown out of proportion.

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            Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            They can’t set me free because I never let them capture me. The rest of you have been on a hell of a journey. Welcome home.
            
            The world's largest Jesus statute in Brazil wrote :Vaccines Saves: across from arm to arm. Little do they know pfizer was sued for  2.3 billion for killing in an Brazilian experimental patients. I wonder if Pfizer sponsor this vandalism on this Jesus statute .
            https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1394 … 27204?s=20

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               hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               They captured my physical self once but never my mind.
               
               Wow...I understand Pfizer was also behind an incident in Nigeria with vaccines

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                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Wow again, 25 years of trials. Nigeria was demanding $7bn in damages from the US company for the families of children it says died or suffered serious side effects when the antibiotic. . The Kano state government also has civil and criminal cases pending against Pfizer.
                  
                  Pfizer's is the leading pharmaceutical and push on Vaccines. I listen to the lab mice. Don't!!! do it, pfizer is still testing on humans

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            wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            We could do better, yes.  But we won't; love of the dollar will prevent that unless we can find a way to do it at no additional cost.
            
            I've been through 3 of those 20 year periods in my lifetime.  Can't remember a disease killing half a million Americans in a single year.  Or a quarter million, for that matter.

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               hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I've been through over two of these periods and, of course, have seen other viral outbreaks. One difference nowadays is the ability and need to hyper react.
               
               The false positive numbers on COVID aren't talked about much these days, but they are absolutely relevant.
               
               https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/let … laboratory

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                  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I would agree that there are some false results out there.  Perhaps even 10% of the total, although I doubt it.
                  
                  That leaves 540,000 one year US deaths to date - something this country hasn't seen in it's entire life span.

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                     hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Much higher than 10 percent is likely, even just going by the FDA link. If we have false positives then we have some inaccurate death certificates.
                     
                     We spent a LOT of money fighting this virus and a lot of money coming up with a vaccine, but we can't spend some money to have a few more ICU units? Hmm.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Over the course of my lifetime from hiring thousands of people and most of them had the flu at some point.
                     
                     So far only meet one person who caught the covid. Results by Canadian stats flu killed 30 times greater more than covid by stats. Plus personal experiences of flu cases a 1000 times greater than covid cases.
                     
                     Of course i live in Nova Scotia lowest covid cases.

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                        hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        As far as deaths. We've had school continuously throughout the pandemic in our city. Not one death of any teacher, school official, child, or even a janitor in our small city of over 60,000. I hate to say this without knocking on wood and all, but, this is just one more anecdote as far as how overblown this has been...then there's always "long COVID" to scare us if the death numbers don't.

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                           Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Remind me of when everyone had to hide underneath our desk a public school. During an alarm siren of a nuclear bomb attack. Don't look at the flash.
                           
                           If I see a flash, then putting my head between my legs, to kiss my as$ goodbye.

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