If your "side" won, would you support a totalitarian regime in the US?

1. 77

   Kyler J Falkposted 3 years ago

   
   I ask this within the context of your "side" being unrealistically ideal, as if it magically removed freewill from anyone who would oppose it. If you got your God-tier, infallible, unarguable idea of government to be in power, but only as a totalitarian figure which removes the free will of its opposition for all of eternity, would you support it?
   
   Personally, I've argued with myself a lot about the idea, and that makes sense because rigid idealism is mostly-worthless in an ever-evolving world, but I'm human so there must be inner conflict. On one side I say yes, I'd support it, because what do I care if my enemies are forced, unconditionally, to lose free will and adhere without question to my government's ideals. In the other camp I say no, because there is no such thing as a true long-term victory without honor in obtaining it.
   
   An interesting, "What if..." that always has me thinking, especially when taking in the viewpoints of others.

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   1. 82

      Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No, absolutely not, there is no virtue in tyranny or authoritarian rule regardless of which direction it may come.
      
      Such a situation would be precarious because the opposition to that power will render any such arrangement as unstable.

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      1. 77

         Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         In this imaginary situation the opposition has no freewill, and everything becomes your ideal vision for everything automatically in exchange for any opposition's freewill. Basically, their brains are rewritten to follow your government's ideals. If opposition is the only reason, it doesn't hold up to my proposed hypothetical.
         
         As for virtue, I agree, such a victory would be like cheating in any rules-driven game. It is not only boring to play with a cheater and/or to be the cheater, but also every victory comes at the expense of the only things that make the game fun.

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         1. 82

            Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            The only honorable way to win is through principles of democratic selection processes, convincing people by persuasion and not by coercion. Those are the rules of the game
            
            Who wants automatons under the will of an adverse government control?

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            1. 77

               Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Your ideal government, if this situation occurred and your "side" won out, would be an adverse one? Why wouldn't people be allowed to succeed, develop, etc. under your new God-government? In this situation they'd be happy either way, due to the erasure of opposing freewill, and rewriting.

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   2. 76

      Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Plan A, run as far and fast as you can from ground zero.
      Plan B. Build my self sustainable economy village at the southern tip of South America. Ban all Americans
      Plan C  trap a cop or US Troop when American are invasion on my property. Then move again.

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      1. 77

         Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         If your ideal government were put into place, but as an unarguable totalitarian regime with God-like powers that forces everyone to adhere happily, you would run away? That would mean your own ideal government is something for even you to fear, no?

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         1. 76

            Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Been building tiny houses and urban farming off grid for the last 15 years. I'm probably the 1% that can survive anything like tyranny thrown my way or know what battles to pick.
            
            Not going to join the frontlines first. Wait for the worst horrified , terribly and stupid fight like world war 2 to be fought from the sideline. Then come in and help clean up the mess with tinyhouse eco communities.

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            1. 77

               Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Depending on who we are fighting, I'd probably jump into the meat grinder just to get some. Then again, I think from the mindset of, "They can do whatever they want, but they'll have to get through us first," and sometimes a tactical withdrawal is the best decision. If our government ever started using the same tactics on us as we do on other countries, I don't think anyone could stop them except those carrying out the work.

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               1. 76

                  Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I really do think it is the unstoppable one world order aim of total tyranny control.
                  
                  On the other hand, the 99% or power of the people are stronger and won't let this happen as they always have through out human history.

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   3. 85

      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      No, I would not support a Government that had a totalitarian figure. I prefer democracy and capitalism.  Otherwise, IMO one would be nothing but a slave to a Government.

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      1. 76

         Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Can't imagine people would go for one world order. Even though every moderation president except JFK has proposed for a one or new world order. Now its WEF which is the same under a different name.

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      2. 77

         Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         So your ideal government is not democracy and capitalism-driven? Under this hypothetical all of your opponents would be forced to adhere to capitalistic and democratic ideals if that is what you so desired, and they'd do so happily because of the government's magical god-like powers. Even if happiness were guaranteed for those who would oppose the government, you still would not do it?
         
         This is basically the chance to bring everything you argue for every day into fruition without any consequence, with no one getting hurt, because it is a magical hypothetical.

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         1. 85

            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            It well looks like we have a different definition of democracy and capitalism.
            
            I prefer to be governed by the whole population,  typically voting and electing representatives that will do the bidding of the majority.  No everything I might wish for may not come to fruition, but it leaves the opinion for some of the things the population wishes for to come to fruition. I like the voice of the people to at least be somewhat heard.
            
            And yes some of the people will be just some of the time, but hopefully not all of the time.  All would not be forced to adhere to capitalistic and democratic ideals, they would have the freedom to make that choice. Not all are cut out to be capitalist. Capitalists use their money to invest in trade and industry for profit. Their ventures work to help keep our economy strong and keeping job opportunities abundant for those that care to work and prosper from capitalist ventures.
            
            I prefer movement instead of stagnation in an economy. And to have the movement you need the ingenuity that capitalism offers.  People that are willing to build, invest, and add to a healthy economy. This is my definition of capitalism.

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            1. 77

               Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               The hypothetical I have offered is simply allowing you to eliminate anyone that would purposefully throw a wrench in the works of your chosen system. You know, the people who just want to watch the world burn, an increasing population if the mainstream media is to be believed. If you so desired it, the system could very well offer everyone freewill, or only some, so our definitions are exactly the same but the way we are perceiving my hypothetical situation is different.
               
               I agree with your idea of how things should be.

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   4. 71

      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting, but this is exactly what appears to be occurring...
      
      It's seems a blend of the worst of Communism and Fascism, Corporatism and Socialism... its a slow creeping process... but it is definitely occurring.
      
      For instance all the support and exposure for Critical Race Theory...
      
      Like Critical Class Theory... which was used to classify all of the CCP's enemies and allow Mao to do away with the 'Middle Class' which in China was the well off farmers and Small Business owners.
      
      That would never work here in America, so they had to find another way to divide people and to attack the 'Middle Class', in order to do that they had to get the mega-corporations on board with that, once that was done, they could begin destroying the Small Business owners and Property owners here in America through division by Critical Race Theory and Social Justice.
      
      What we are going to see in the coming months, is many Middle Class Property Owners and small LLC and Business Owners go under.  While the Big Corporations have thrived during the pandemic, the Small Business owners and small Rental Property owners have been getting crushed by these lockdowns and eviction hiatus which has allowed millions to live without paying rent for over a year.
      
      Big Corporations and REITs can absorb any losses from the eviction hiatus forced by the government, but for the Mom & Pop types that put their lifetime savings/retirement into a couple rental properties, many of them are about to lose everything and it will be the banks and REITs that come in and clean house.
      
      I guess you could say America is mixing Corporatocracy with Communism which may very well be Fascism at its worst... we will have to see how the next couple years play out to know for sure.
      
      When Facebook, Twitter, Google all but silenced a sitting President and his supporters, that was a sign of the corporate elites taking control, not just of the content you get to see and hear... but who your "leaders" will be and what you will be allowed to say and do.

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      1. 76

         Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Generally over centralized systems, authorities or ideas of one world order doesn't work anymore. They need slaves like people to operate them, the collective consciousness of majority won't accept it.
         
         Rather than one world order it will move back to smaller Governments or countries and more individualism, yet not for a few years yet.
         More to hit the fan yet.
         
         The happiest and best lifestyle for general population in the world are from countries that  are under 10 million population.

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      2. 77

         Kyler J Falkposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         The strangest part about this all for me, personally, is that I can't find a single person who outright supports anything being militantly pushed. I can find people who dip their toes into the ideas, can see why it is important, but even my militantly left/right friends don't understand what is occurring. No one but those pushing the narratives seem to actually want anything to do with what is actually being carried out.
         
         There is an exception, though, because everything I see on the internet and TV says people are out protesting and marching for all of these things. However, I was part of the BLM protests/riots, lockdown protests, and most recently I took part in a Christian protest against lockdowns, abortion, and a plethora of other issues they chose that day. Not a single one of these were as the media framed them to be, and I'm wondering how many people are truly falling for the ruse?
         
         My guess is that we have a lot of would-be fighters here in America just waiting for the chance to get behind someone who can push back against all of this garbage, but then again I have always been an idealistic little brat with hopeful ideas. Nonetheless, I think those who actually support the trash tearing America apart are simply a powerful minority that could easily be thwarted with a little bit of well-timed and well-placed resistance.

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         1. 76

            Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            They got new bio weapons now, the masses will support.

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