Has America Lost The Social Benefit of Shame

1. 85

   GA Andersonposted 3 years ago

   *Drawn from a link of Credence2.
   
   It's a Real Time With Bill Maher Show video. 2 and a half minutes will give the context of the title. Start at 28:00, stop when you want.
   
   Has America Lost The Social Benefit of Shame - Bill Maher
   
   Sometimes empathy isn't enough.
   
   Shame is a societal tool. In our efforts to stop the harm of undeserved shame, (misuse of that tool), we have lost the societal behavior benefits of deserved shame.
   
   Gen X started the slide with their 'Participation' trophies, Y and Z have taken it to the extremes we have today.
   
   GA

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      Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Our society has been so twisted around that the insane are considered "normal" while what used to be considered "normal" 40 years ago is now considered a bigoted, sexist, extremist.
      
      72 sexes, choose which one you feel like on any given day... no shame there.
      
      Video record on your phone a woman raped repeatedly by assailants during a long train ride... no shame there.
      
      We don't have a definition for what a woman is, no shame there. 
      
      We don't have winners and losers, everyone gets a participation trophy.  You don't get graded based on production and proof of knowledge, you get graded based on your sex and race.
      
      No shame. 
      
      But there is blame, for those who essentially try to uphold beliefs and standards that were the basis of people having shame, in generations past.

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         Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

         For being on the "other side" that was well said....

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      2. 85

         GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Since we're just a couple of dinosaurs venting, I will add some fuel to the fire.
         
         Relative to the phone video thing, a recent comment about that episode illustrates an alien mindset. Someone noted that 'it was good that, at the least, someone had the courage to record it for reporting.'
         
         That's not courage in my book, it's cowardice. It should be a shameful response, but no longer. Now, it's someone else's responsibility to do the 'right' thing. (as us dinosaurs see it).
         
         GA

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   2. 75

      tsmogposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      With jest, Shame on You!, for condemning participation trophies for kids through eight years of age in sports. Don't you understand Paigent's four stages of cognitive development for kids or Erickson's stages of social emotional development? You'll like #2 - Learning Autonomy vs Shame at ages 18 mos - 4. Don't you know the controversy is only a liberal vs conservative issue with parents with no real effect on the kids unless they are shamed for accepting it without any reasonable explanation why that they can understand?
      
      A side note is participation trophies have been with us for eons. Just look at uniforms the most obvious participation trophy. Why I even have four membership cards in my wallet.
      
      Back to the OP shame to me has always been a psychological tool being used primarily by one in power from experience. It is someone laying a guilt trip on someone. Yet, the question is if that is appropriate at times? I say, "Yes if used as a teaching tool and not for a means to control.
      
      Maybe that is where empathy comes in to play. To me empathy has and always will be a starting point. Nothing more and nothing less. It is what comes next that counts. And, yes at times shame is that. And, fortunately, many learn it and have feelings of being ashamed at times. Thus, self regulation leading onward to becoming a better person in society.

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      1. 85

         GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         I didn't follow your links this time. sorry, I'm pretty comfortable with my ideas about the development stages of kids. First, they're loveable and cute, and helpless. Then they become sweet little sponges absorbing and appreciating everything around them. Smart little vessels for us to pour our knowledge and wisdom into.
         
         After that, they become individual prototypes to be proud of, but still constantly tweaking. And that is where their metamorphosis happens. They begin to be self-aware. They begin to challenge. They start needing a butt-kick here and there to keep them on the road.
         
         That's the last 'good' stage. Once they reach the 'challenging authority' stage we begin anticipating how soon we can kick them out the door for their final stage of development: real life.
         
         I don't need no stinkin' links to know the stages.  ;-)
         
         GA

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         1. 75

            tsmogposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Oh . . . I see . . . works for me.

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2. 79

   abwilliamsposted 3 years ago

   Society has changed, but the natural order of things has not. When you believe in something greater than yourself, it keeps you grounded. When you're grounded, you aren't looking for the latest craze or fix. It's a choice, like so many things in life. People are searching for answers, as has been the case since the dawn of time. We have just gotten to the point where people have been made to feel more comfortable, with deviant and abnormal. However, it has come at a great cost, we see the signs everyday. Inanimate objects get the blame - if only it were so simple.

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