What makes liberals think they're liberal?

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   sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago

   I have come to the conclusion that most liberals are not in any way liberal unless you're discussing weird lifestyles. Why would you think you're a progressive when you're really a social destructive?

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   Denno66posted 15 years ago

   You mean it's wrong to marry farm animals?

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   Len Cannonposted 15 years ago

   I've also made some arbitrary decisions about others beliefs in my time.

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      sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The facts support my position and since I've had 55years experience dealing with people I think I'm on firm ground. Whats your resume?

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         sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Air guitar?

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            EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Oooh! Wit! "Wit" which goes a long way toward supporting Len's "arbitrary decision" statement.
            
            And 55 years of experience of dealing with people just makes you, well, fifty-five years old. Better judgment doesn't always come with age. "I'm older than you" isn't a valid debate point.
            
            So, you say "the facts" support your position. What are your facts?
            
            Also, "weird lifestyle" is also an arbitrary term. Liberals can be for gay marriage. A lot of conservatives would definitely call that a "weird lifestyle." So, what do you mean by that, too?

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               sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Let me guess you're twenty something and you've more experience that someone three times your age. Well theres my first proof liberals are emotionally attached to their beliefs but emotion don't cut it. So a little-bitty girl of tweny something knows more because she feels more in touch. Well I'm willing to be taught let's hear your resume so we can qualify your position. Lets talk facts about liberals, first lets look at the word liberal. Liberal by definition means a tendency towards progress or reform, wants maximum personal freedom, freedom of belief, no prejudice, tolerant, not bound by tradition, giving in large amounts and not strict. Now here's where the rubber meets the road.
               
               1. reform- our liberals aren't talking about reform they're preaching distruction of an America with morals.
               2. progressive- means to our liberals changeing for the sake of change no plan no thought of consequences just blurt it out because it feels right.
               3. freedom of personal belief as long as it's the liberals belief the only promote freedom for themselves and their cronies certainly not for the religious or the conservatives.
               4. no prejudice, now thats the funniest contradiction of all! Liberals hate morality even for children they think they turned out ok so lets have a free-for-all! Rather than accept religious they do nothing but insult and ridicule. Welcome to the Hubs!
               5. not bound by tradition thats an understatement liberals don't want to hear this is a country founded and populated by people leaving religious persecution, I guess it caught up. Family means nothing, non-traditional families are the new chic. Forget marraige! The children either are lucky enough survive their mothers liberal behavior or their killed. If they survive they have to run the gamit of uor liberal educators who have an agenda. So showing gay couples in books to children not only violates their parents right to choose the kids are being indoctrinated into a socially disjointed progressive sociaty.
               6. Giving, I don't know how liberals can look at the religious in the eyes they should be ashamed. Lets see who gives the most conservative religious or liberal whatevers. Oh, thats not a fair comparison, imagine that!
               7. Not strict that translates into a series of immoral behaviors that liberals feel should be legal, without any thought of the consequences over the longterm. Abortion, premarital sex, teen moms, STD's, drug use, distruction of the family, single parent homes, facilitating poverty, punishing those who work through excessive taxation and the persuit of socialism.
               
               Look sweet pea you have alot to learn start by trying to not be a hypocrite. You want to critisize me you need to take a long look in the mirror. I know what a liberal is and I know their hypocrasy thats why I started this thread. Why don't you practice what you want to grow up to be? Liberal, for real!

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                  EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Your skills in conversation and debate are lacking. All of your facts are absolute raw opinions, which if you in fact look up the definition of opinion you will plainly see. Your condescension and mocking, laced with again more arbitrary judgments on how I obviously view myself as more experienced because I'm younger, add much more toward discrediting you than they do to crediting you. And they won't fluster me into your low brand of name calling.
                  
                  You've used the word hypocrite a lot. I can't see where you place me as such seeing as I've not stated a view but merely challenged yours. Again, more blustering with nothing behind it, seeing as one can't contradict one's self without stating a side in the first place.
                  
                  Well, I know women didn't originally have the right to vote, and since that was a liberal idea you probably oppose that too, but we do now, and that vote does in fact give me as much of a political vouch in this country as you. On a ballot, all of my "sweet pea" and "little-baby-girl" mean just as much as your all-mighty "55years of experience." If you can argue that, well then, by all means, I'd enjoy seeing some more facts.
                  
                  Have I stated a political opinion yet? Have I contradicted myself, demonstrated hypocrisy (people sure like that word a lot in political arguments, even when they use it where it really doesn't fit at all)? No, I can't say that I have.
                  
                  Where I stand on social issues is liberal. Where I stand economically tends to lean conservative.

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                     sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm not questioning your political beliefs or any one else's. I'm debating the thought process and behavior held by liberals when in fact their not liberal. More Dem/Lib vs Rep/con and the moral decay promoted by liberals in general. Thats why when one throws a weak attempt at an insult I make sure that they know he/she is confused, diluded, self centered, goofy and in need of help. Sweet-pea's not that bad.

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                     Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Game
                     
                     Set
                     
                     Match
                     
                     Thanks for playing Sneako.  Better luck next time.

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                        sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        Ron, who's playing?

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                           Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           You apparently were trying.  Ready for some more whup-ass?

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                     PrettyPantherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     [standing ovation from the peanut gallery]

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                  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  First of all Sneak, you should know that I am NOT a liberal.  In fact I'm so "conservative" that your "obvious southern Republican" attitude will probably find it hard to believe.  Know this though...Republican does not equal Conservative.
                  
                  I am a VERY conservative person when it comes to the government.  I am NOT, however, all that conservative when it comes to social mores.  I'll take your points one by one to try to explain:
                  
                  "1. reform- our liberals aren't talking about reform they're preaching distruction of an America with morals."
                  
                  Yes i agree that Oblahblah's talk about change is a total joke.  I will even agree that the ruling class of this country, (be it DEM or REP), is hell bent on destroying the very foundation of this country.  But without morals?  Whose morals?  Yours?  Your bible's?  I'm an atheist and I have a very high moral standard.  I truly believe in "live and let live".  It is, after all, what this country was founded on.  But if your priest messes with my little boy, I'll waste him....no questions asked.
                  
                  "2. progressive- means to our liberals changeing for the sake of change no plan no thought of consequences just blurt it out because it feels right."
                  
                  This statement makes no sense to me.  You are claiming that the Liberals have no agenda?  They have an agenda...at least politically.  That would be Socialism.  Now if you are talking Liberalism in a social context, well then who cares?  If they aren't hurting you or anyone else, what do you care if they go dancing in the forest naked and worshiping the trees?  Oh....because it doesn't sit well with your religion?  Remember that this country was FOUNDED on the freedom to worship as one chooses....period.
                  
                  "3. freedom of personal belief as long as it's the liberals belief the only promote freedom for themselves and their cronies certainly not for the religious or the conservatives."
                  
                  Freedom of belief as long as it's the Liberals belief???  Once again, our country was founded on the principle that EVERYONE shall have the right to worship in WHATEVER way they please.  Is this the case anymore?  Hardly.  Is that sad?  Most certainly.  What if the country suddenly decided to tell you Christians that you couldn't handle snakes anymore?  Or worship pagan icons like the cross?  Or have more than one wife? (oh wait....the religious "right" has already done away with that one despite what their bible says).  Would you be upset?  As an atheist, I don't go around knocking on doors "spreading my word".  All I ask is the same respect.
                  
                  "4. no prejudice, now thats the funniest contradiction of all! Liberals hate morality even for children they think they turned out ok so lets have a free-for-all! Rather than accept religious they do nothing but insult and ridicule. Welcome to the Hubs!"
                  
                  Some people (especially the younger ones) get VERY confused when they vote "Liberal".  They THINK they are voting for liberal things in a "social aspect"...which in my mind, isn't all that bad.  Unfortunately, what they are doing is voting for things in a "liberal political" sense....and that is VERY bad.  Liberal...in the social sense...means free....freedom to act without the persecution of others that differ from you.  I'm all for that.  Liberalism in the political sense means giving control to the government...giving "liberal rein" over the way we choose to live our lives as individuals...and this is NOT kosher.  Conservatives, on the other hand, especially we Libertarians, want to get the government out of our faces as much as possible.  That's what I don't get about the typically "young and dumb" Democrats.  They want their freedom to smoke pot, have abortions, and dance naked in the streets if they want, yet somehow they think that by electing BIG Government, they are going to achieve that!!??  Only when you get rid of the BIG government, and get back to our original Constitution will they ever see that freedom again.  The so-called "Conservative" Republicans (that's a joke in itself) would do well to remember this too.  Again....Republican does NOT equal Conservative.
                  
                  6. Giving, I don't know how liberals can look at the religious in the eyes they should be ashamed. Lets see who gives the most conservative religious or liberal whatevers. Oh, thats not a fair comparison, imagine that!
                  
                  I love how you keep equating Conservatives to Religion.  I am personally ULTRA Conservative in a political sense, and I am an atheist.  I will say that I probably know more about your Judeo-Christian bible than you do, and I'm certainly NOT an AMORAL person.  If it makes you feel good to give your money to your bible-thumping televangelists, or your pedophilic Catholic church, then by all means do so....your money will never see the light of day where it is needed.  One penny out of every dollar given to Haiti actually got there.  And they appointed Bill Clinton as "Honorary Governor" just 2 days after the disaster.  Now he and "Baby Bush" together are swindling your money in the name of "Christian relief" for those poor souls.  That other 99 cents out of every dollar is going where?  I prefer to donate my TIME to the needy....that way I KNOW that my help is being utilized like it should be.  And I have done it all over the world for over 30 years now.  But that's just me.
                  
                  7. Not strict that translates into a series of immoral behaviors that liberals feel should be legal, without any thought of the consequences over the longterm. Abortion, premarital sex, teen moms, STD's, drug use, distruction of the family, single parent homes, facilitating poverty, punishing those who work through excessive taxation and the persuit of socialism.
                  
                  OK....here's a long list of stuff thrown together that really doesn't belong together, but I'll do my best to sort it out.  Once again, you are confusing Liberalism from a "social" standpoint with Liberalism from a "political" standpoint, so I have to separate the two as they are very different.
                  
                  You mention "immoral" behavior.  By whose standards?  Yours?
                  Because someone isn't following the "rules" set forth in YOUR bible, then they are by default immoral??? 
                  
                  If some young man is sitting on his stoop smoking a joint, not bothering anyone, while his pregnant girlfriend is in the house putting fresh flowers in their window box, are you gonna stop and bitch?  Are they really affecting you in any way?  What if he is having a conversation with his wealthy, gay, stock broker neighbor friend because he isn't as phobic as you?  Are you gonna cringe in fear and run away because they might "infect" you?
                  
                  Maybe the destruction of the "family" that you speak of is just the destruction of what YOU think family should be?  Marriage used to be nothing more than two people stating in front of witnesses that they agreed to be bound to one another.  It wasn't until much later that the "Church" required some bullshit ceremony to make it official...and then even much later after that until the "purile" Government required them to actually pay for the privilege in the form of a license.
                  
                  As far as the rest goes (facilitating poverty, punishing those who work through excessive taxation, and the pursuit of socialism), these are political issues....not social issues.  Now we are on an entirely new point.
                  
                  I whole-heartedly agree that typical "Democrat" (your so-called Liberals) policy most certainly adds to these woes, but the Republicans (your so-called Conservatives) don't help matters either.  In my view they are two sides of the same coin....one offering a more Communistic view of Socialism, while the other offers a more Fascist view of it.  Either way, it tastes like dog doo in my mouth, and I'm not having any of it.
                  
                  When people start to realize that the only way we are ever going to get what we really want is by returning to the ideals our forefathers set forth at the birth of our nation, then we can finally get these DC clowns out of our faces.  Crack whores won't have the incentive to have more crack whore babies because there won't be anything in it for them.  We ain't paying for your laziness no more.  And in the same token, if you want to smoke a joint and kick the hacky sack around in the park on a Sunday afternoon, there's no law that's gonna stop ya.  The Government thinks you are too stupid to figure this out on your own, so they insist on being the one to tell you how to live your life.  Let's prove the azzwipes wrong, and show them that despite our differences, we can still tolerate one another and live in relative harmony without their help.

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                     Red_Dragonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     LONGEST POST EVER.
                     
                     You won the internet today congrats!

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                     sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     ...ok, but we can't cater to each individual laws have to be for the greater good and what protects the most. We can't have indivduals making their own rules and we have to adjust.
                     
                     You made some valid points especially the last one but you also missed badly on the issue of morals so review what morals are and their benefit to a sociaty as a whole. It always is more productive if we're on the same page.
                     
                     You're snide remarks are so "Mark-est" so I'll asume he's your daddy and your benchmark. Sorry, I owed you a couple!

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                        EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        I've looked at your hubs, sir, and your concept of morality is the kind that makes me seethe and my stomach churn (the mind-closed-tighter-than-Fort-Knox conservative kind). But that conversation would just get messy.

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                           sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Even the fishing one?

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                              EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes. Especially your fishing one. I find the "sport" deplorable.
                              
                              No. Not the one on fun fishing. My pappy used to take me fishing with my brothers and it was a great bonding experience for all of us. I don't fish any more for a variety of reasons (there was an incident with a hook and a bad cast, and after accidentally putting a hook in a person, you never want to put a hook in anything again, let me tell you!) but have nothing against people enjoying themselves fishing.
                              
                              Animal rights groups may beg to differ, and I'm not all that kosher with needlessly hooking an animal and then letting it go, but I'm not exactly going to throw fish parts at unexpecting fishers.
                              
                              But there are other articles, and as their author and someone who seems to think they have liberals pinned, you can probably guess which ones don't exactly endear your mindset to me. "To Thyne Own Self Be True" is interesting to me, because the impression you've given on this forum isn't of accepting and letting people be themselves, or not trying to force what your version of things should be on people. Do I know if that's what you're like? How could I? You're a name on the intarwebz. But impressions come easily.

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                                 sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 I know EF. There just my thoughts and they really only matter to me. It was more an atempt to post my view on our sociaty. It has no other relavance. I respect your views and those of others I come here to have some fun and to debate without getting punched. I have a 20yo in college he's conservative by his own choice and he thinks I'm wack! So don't take me too seriously, ok?

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                                    EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    Obviously, as an under-twenty, I take the internet as serious business because I have trouble telling forums from reality.
                                    
                                    There are certain things we do agree on! It isn't all rabid disagreement and blind hatred of people who don't hold same view points. We both seem to have a strong sense of civil obligation, for example, and place emphasis on individual responsibility.
                                    
                                    I think that says something about ability to find common ground, even in an argument/debate.

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                                       sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                       Good Girl!

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                     TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, sneako says I'm nice but liberal...but frankly, it sounds like I need to learn more about Libertarianism. Thanks for that post!

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         Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Well, sweetie pie - you have persuaded me that "konservative kristian," really means "reactionary bigot." I bet Jesus is turning in his grave.
         
         Interesting "morals," you have. Start a fight by claiming your ridiculous faith based opinions are actually facts. Is that the same as turning the other cheek in kkk-speak? Semantics - always good for a fight. Moral decay?
         
         And repeating one year 55 times is not really a wealth of experience.
         
         Kristians Kausing Konflict
         
         @onthewriteside - Yup - although it was the church started charging well before the government.

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            onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks Mark!  I stand corrected!  Forgot about that tithing thing...lol!

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               sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               AW! Father and son now thats beautiful!

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            sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Mark, Mark, Mark..... don't you have a baggette to go buy?

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         Len Cannonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Ted Kennedy had 30 years more experience than you did before he died.  Are his opinions infallible, or do experiences that fail to confirm "liberals shure am wacky" not count?

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            sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Counts just fine! I certainly know the difference between a liberal and a conservative. Don't be condesending and I won't.

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               Len Cannonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               It is a little late for that since you already started the most condescending thread of the week.

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                  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  It wasn't intended to be that way. It was intended to be a discussion on why liberals aren't actually liberal. I know everyone has their own individual perspective and I'm sure we share some common positions. My point was liberals aren't in alot of cases as liberal as they claim. Len if I made you mad I didn't mean to but, I will gladly dish it out if I feel someone is patronizing me.

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   TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years ago

   In my experience--which is, in comparison to others', quite narrow I'm sure--people call other people liberals (just as people call other people conservatives) rather than using these words to describe themselves...
   
   I don't understand some people's obsession with squishing people into little labels. The time spent mud-slinging and name-calling and pigeon-holing could, quite easily in my opinion, have been spent being kind, listening, brain-storming, and problem-solving like civilized creatures.
   
   But that probably makes me an irrational, branded-with-a-hot-iron liberal or something else equally silly-sounding.
   
   
   
   To give a more direct answer to your question: Other people have told me that I am a liberal. I really do not think of myself in such a way. I do not care what other so-called liberals think about issues; I care what other people think about them, and I care what I think about them. In regards to other people's lifestyles, I am not interested in impeding other people's wills unless they are causing harm to others or impeding the rights of others. *shrug* If that's what you call liberal...there you go.

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      sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Your honesty is refreshing. It's more a collection of interests and positions on those interests. Abortion, gay marraige, animal rights, womens rights, government control, welfare, education and religion among other topics. You should be able to determine if you swing left or right.

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         TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         *blush* Where I come from "swinging right or left" has to do with anatomy I don't possess
         
         So, I can't tell my right from my left politically speaking, you seem like a nice enough fellow, perhaps you can educate me. Here's how I roll:
         
         Abortion: Definitely not for me; not into telling anyone else that they can't do it though.
         
         Gay Marriage: Straight people can't handle marriage, statistics point this out...if you really hate gay people...let them get married
         
         Women's rights: I was under the impression we had them? I understand other people haven't gotten the memo, though.
         
         Animal rights: Animals suffer for our choices, they are among the truly innocent on the planet, and I cannot be tongue-in-cheek on this one. However, I eat meat, I wear leather, and I've looked at fur longingly (but don't own any and couldn't justify the expense). At the same time, I have rescued, ministered to, spayed or neutered, and found good homes for dozens of strays (and currently care for no less than 7 myself).
         
         Government Control: This country was built on the power of the people.  Government serves an important purpose, but controlling the minutiae of everyone's lives is NOT it.
         
         Welfare: *sigh* This one is so complicated. People need help sometimes, and we're a great enough country to help our own...So many things need change in order for people to the get the help that will really make a difference. Thinking about this one makes me sad
         
         Education: The more the better. We need better schools, better education for our teachers, more pay for our teachers, more opportunities for our children to become great.
         
         Religion: Man-made, generally absurd, and a completely different thing from the Creator of the Universe.
         
         So...What's the verdict?

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            sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Nice but liberal.

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            caravalhophotoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            TGS...we are totally on the same page...said nicely

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               TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you

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   Will Bensonposted 15 years ago

   I'm not brave enough to be a liberal. Look at what happened to Jesus.

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   A Texanposted 15 years ago

   Thinking,thought,wise choices are words not usually associated with liberals.

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   Colebabieposted 15 years ago

   So if you believe a particular way about an issue or work to change something, that makes you a liberal? I would hope we are all liberals in that case.

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      sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Read my post to Potter. Woman up if you a liberal or swinging left have the conviction to stand by your beliefs. I'm mostly conservative so that makes me conservative, it doesn't mean I may not take a liberal position on an issue it means I side with conservatives more often.

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   RNMSNposted 15 years ago

   way to go glassspider and colebabie! I agree with you both and thats also the way I have believed since The first 8 hours with RN after my name/a way too cultural shock to my system/// but one that was lone in coming!!!!
   
   
   you guys...you do realize that todays liberal was yesterdays hipie dont you?
   thogh I am only an egg
                        slightly cracked 

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      sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What?

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         EFPotterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I puzzled out that he agrees with liberals, but thinks they're hippies, and is a Registered Nurse calling himself kind of crazy. I think.

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            sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            He lost me, thanks for helping out.

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   sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago

   C'mon liberals you're not going to let an ignorant old man shut you up, are you? I mean you're so enlightened this should be easy for you!

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      (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Why bother, the ignorant old man is doing quite nicely at preserving his image. Well done.

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         sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Why thank you!

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    Glenn S.posted 15 years ago

    Who would have thought that an ever so increasing amount of retired baby boomers have returned to smoking reefer. Liberals or not, they are yesterdays hippies.

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       sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       .....with an education on life , the universe and everything!

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    Christeneposted 15 years ago

    A Liberal definition from John F. Kennedy
    
    "someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties"
    
    That about sums me up pretty well.

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       TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Oh. I like that very much. Thank you for sharing

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       caravalhophotoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       love it!!!

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          sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          As long as someone else pays for it.

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