What do you know about the N.Amer.Union/SecurityProsperityPartnership?

1. 67

   SparklingJewelposted 17 years ago

   I don't know much about it, except what I have read from others. But as it sounds like it threatens US sovereignty  and safety. I am against it. And also for the very reason that I don't get to vote on it. What is the current news concerning Congress' input on this subject?

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2. 59

   knolyourselfposted 17 years ago

   Sort of a European Union of US, Mexico and Canada.
   The money will be the Amerio. Some say it is coming, and
   by creating a US depression, will help in that, and some say it is not.

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3. 67

   Mishaposted 17 years ago

   Not that I'm interested in the issue cause I think it is another conspiracy theory, but I happened to be contacted recently by the guy who thinks it is serious, and he has some info here: http://socialauthority.ning.com/profile … st%3A27247

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4. 72

   William F. Torpeyposted 17 years ago

   Thanks for the llink, Misha. This problem is real, and the video tells the story pretty well. Our Constitution is being threatened, and the American people are doing nothing about it. President Bush, who took an oath to defend the Constitution, is the prime violator. There are numerous websites that give details on this, so there's no point in listing them here. But the problem is truly real, and it isn't going away anytime soon.

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5. 59

   knolyourselfposted 17 years ago

   Some say the US empire is the first in history, where most of its citizens are unaware of its existence. If most think it is not an empire, but with US military bases in over 160 countries, as one instance of the possibility, is the US, as an empire, a conspiracy theory?

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6. 99

   Sally's Troveposted 17 years ago

   Misha, thanks for posting the link.  Both the destination page and the video are very informative and provoking.   
   
   When I first saw the video a week or so ago, I also thought it was part of some kind of conspiracy.  However, the more I thought, reflected, and learned, the less sure I became when I took a look at some of the rights that have been stripped from us in recent times, and how we let that happen. The examples are many...the Patriot Act and its legislated spinoffs, enforced voluntarism (one of my favorites, and you can learn more about that in William's hub “Look Up ‘Volunteer’ in Webster’s”), and the US e-passport being just a few.
   
   I hope that this thread will cause others to investigate further.

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7. 67

   SparklingJewelposted 17 years ago

   The mystical aspects of  the ancient religions and Christianity provide the spiritual knowledge of the individual's sense of power and empowerment that creates the connection with the "divine" within self and within others.
   
   It is this sense of connection with the divine, that is an individual's soul freedom and liberty, that the "men behind the curtain" have been exploiting for centuries to obtain their own worldly power over people, through economies, governments, etc.
   
   Everyone has a combination of divine and corrupt power within consciousness. We are to learn to sort it out and seek the divine ultimately. Some people obviously have a much more corrupt consciousness than a divine consciousness. This is the divide and conquer tactic of the ultimate corruptors. There are many people involved with these corruptors that are not as corrupt. We all have better choices we need to make.
   
   It doesn't mean everything about any particular circumstance is totally bad, (I hope) but we have to push for sorting it out, stand up for our rights and not create/allow the ultimate divide and conquer scenario.
   
   There is always some validity in a conspiracy theory... it has to be sorted out...individuals together as groups talking to other groups, real grass roots growth, not fanaticism, is the answer. And especially not giving up or giving in.
   
   Think about it. If several millions of people will make themselves heard, and seen (if need be) by those in power at all levels, without fanaticism and violence, things will change in a bigger way. It may need to be a continual action for a length of time, but to get people out from in front of their TVs, off the couch and taking actions will make a difference.

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8. 59

   knolyourselfposted 17 years ago

   There is an interesting concept contained more fully in the book, 'Our Man in Havana'
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Man_in_Havana
   by Graham Greene, less so in the movie version. As explained by the police chief of Havana, something to the affect: we don't care what our citizens think, they can think anything they want, but they must 'do' as we say, or they will be tortured. You in your country, are not allowed to torture, so in order to control how people act, you must control their minds.

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      sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

      that plus forcing people to chose between two things that will not bring out an outcome other than the one originally intended.  It's pretty messy. 
      I fell on this a few months ago, it got me wierded out.

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9. 0

   RFoxposted 17 years ago

   I don't know anything really about this. But I can't imagine the Canadian government agreeing to this behind closed doors. Especially if they're proposing erasing borders and changing the money.
   
   In Canada we have referendums on this sort of thing that the people have to vote on. It was the same during the Quebec separation situation. The citizens chose what they wanted to do democratically. It was not a blanket choice by the government.
   
   So whatever is going on in the States, in order to have a N. American Partnership, Canadians have to actually agree to it as well.
   
   I find it amusing that the people perpetrating this story think the US government is so powerful that they can erase the Canadian border without Canadians having a say in the matter. We actually have a democracy in this country and a voice in important matters like this.

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      sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

      Those were my thoughts to RFox, but the system in America has gotten so out of control or tyranicle, that I don't even feel like our votes count anymore.  Even if billions will disagree,  I can only imagine that they think our democracy is still a democracy, and so while Canada is a democracy, I wonder how democratic it actually is?

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         RFoxposted 17 years agoin reply to this

         Canada's system of government is very different from the States though. One person cannot yield such power as the President does, that's why nobody bothers to assassinate Prime Ministers.
         
         The only person who has direct veto power over any facet of the Canadian government is actually the Queen. Not that she would ever exercise that right, it's nothing more than a polite technicality now, but still, it is part of our system of government.
         
         Right now we have a minority government, which means it's almost impossible to pass any legislation unless most of the political parties agree. And you can imagine how often the parties agree on things:D

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            sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

            wish I were a Canadian   But I guess it still wouldn't fix the world.  cheers.

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               RFoxposted 17 years agoin reply to this

               Nope, we have our own special brand of problems just like everyone else. But I do love the Canadian way of life that's why I moved here permanently.

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10. 59

    knolyourselfposted 17 years ago

    'On February 14th, Canada and the US signed an agreement which allows for the deployment of US troops inside Canada. There was no official announcement nor was there a formal decision at the governmental level.  In fact the agreement was barely mentioned by the Canadian media. The agreement, which raises farreaching issues of national sovereignty, was not between the two governments. It was signed by military commanding officers.'
    http://www.northcom.mil/News/2008/021408.html

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    1. 0

       sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       holy crap. RFox, did you hear this???
       
       Why would they do this? We have traitors on the loose.  I didn't click the link, just thinking about it much to disturbing.  arrrr!

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          RFoxposted 17 years agoin reply to this

          The actual article states:
          “This document is a unique, bilateral military plan to align our respective national military plans to respond quickly to the other nation's requests for military support of civil authorities,” Renuart said. “Unity of effort during bilateral support for civil support operations such as floods, forest fires, hurricanes, earthquakes and effects of a terrorist attack, in order to save lives, prevent human suffering and mitigate damage to property, is of the highest importance, and we need to be able to have forces that are flexible and adaptive to support rapid decision-making in a collaborative environment.”
          
          Canada still has to REQUEST US military help. The US military can't just come storming in. It is for situations of civil emergencies like Hurricane Katrina. It is to remove the red tape during these times so the military can help save civilian lives.

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             sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

             phew, that's good.  Do you think this is an idicator of massive climate change?

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                RFoxposted 17 years agoin reply to this

                I don't know but a chunk of ice the size of Newfoundland and Labrador just collapsed and broke away from Antarctica, so it's not looking good. They didn't expect the Wilkins ice shelf to disintegrate for another 15 years. Who knows what's going to happen.
                
                But, as I live on one of the most active fault lines in the world I'm happy to have all the military help I can get if the 'big one' hits.
                
                And back to the border discussion.....anyone who is traveling now will notice they are tightening up border security and restrictions not taking them away.
                For the first time Canadians and Americans need passports to move back and forth. If the governments were looking at creating this 'Union' and erasing borders then they wouldn't have just spent a whole whack of money implementing tighter border control.
                Look at it logically.

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                   sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

                   True that Rfox.  That does make more sense.  I hope that earthquake never shakes.  I was wondering how big exactly is newfoundland and labrador?  I was looking at a map, but not any good ones.

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    2. 72

       William F. Torpeyposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       The problem is that this "agreement" constitutes a treaty between the United States and Canada and it is therefore illegal.
       
       Article 2, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states (under presidential powers):
       
       He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur..."
       
       To be legal, the "agreement" must be approved by two thirds of the Senate.
       
       President Bush and the U.S. Congress are running amok -- totally ignoring the U.S, Constitution on issue after issue. And, topping that, we allow the U.S. Supreme Court to select the U.S. president.
       
       It's scary!

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          sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

          I know, that's why I honestly believe our votes don't count anymore and that the american people really have to start doing thier parts.  I always thought that is was us runnging our government, not the other way around. 
          I don't know if American's got lazy, or just stopped caring because for a short while things were "good".   Or maybe, we got to busy to notice and now it's too late. 
          
          
          what do you think?

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11. 67

    Mishaposted 17 years ago

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       sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       but for what? those things don't initiate without a reason.

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12. 67

    Mishaposted 17 years ago

    For helping each other in a case of civil emergency - as stated there.
    
    Sandy, I seriously don't believe that a change of such a magnitude could possibly happen with such an ease. Canadian elites are not idiots and have their own interests, as well as Mexican elites. Look how long it took for European Union to iron out enough details so they finally could have most countries join?
    
    And all that part about one world government and Rockefellers immediately brings up the memories about Judeo-masonic conspiracy to overtook the World...

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13. 59

    knolyourselfposted 17 years ago

    Me thinks America is democratic oligarchy. The oligargy runs the empire. The Bush family is a member of the oligargy. Hillary will probably shill for the oligarchy. Obama will not want to, but may have to, but at least he is more honest - my opinion.

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       sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

       what is an oligargy?

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          William F. Torpeyposted 17 years agoin reply to this

          Dictionary.com Unabridged
          
          Oligarchy:
          
          1. a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few. 
          2. a state or organization so ruled. 
          3. the persons or class so ruling.
          
          I believe most people are so busy just making a living and trying to keep up with the Joneses that they don't make any real effort to see what's happening to the country. When I talked about the state of affairs with a friend of my late wife, she said (believe it or not) that we need to trust that our leaders, i.e., George W. Bush, et al, to do what is right. Yes, it's lazy thinking, carelessness, and unwarranted faith and trust. Also, many people don't want to seem "negative" or "argumentative." That's how the sheep are led to slaughter.

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             sandra rinckposted 17 years agoin reply to this

             It really is lazy, careless thinking and unwarrented faith and trust.  This is disturbing.  I have been for the last few years incouraging people, specifically in my age group to start caring, and even my best friend, though informed says that, voting is enough, or that we wont make a difference, or that she tried and failed.  I just don't believe it.
             I mean I believe what is coming out of peoples mouths, but I can't beleive they will let it happen.  Oh, thanks for the dictionary. 
             
             In my own demograph, their more interestred in unwordly things, and then bitch about our government, but wont do anything about it, I think someone put it in thier minds that it's a lost cause.  I really don't know what to do about this.

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