Freedom of Speech

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   Doug Hughesposted 13 years ago

   ******* posted 2 days ago in reply to this
   
   "Yawn? .......our two ideologies will not be reconciled. I detest liberals and I don`t mind saying so. I am an extremist constitutional conservative and I see a day coming when we will need to forcefully defend our liberty once again from tyrannical Government drones like you. Our forefathers did it and so have many others through out human history. Drones like yourself are the most selfish of humanity and you will take from others what you have not earned by force using the police power of Government. You are the leeches on the ass of society and that`s all you are."
   
   I am a liberal, and being despised by some is high praise. It depends on the source. I don't object to differences in ideology but IMO, if you want the advantages of living in the US, you will have to pay taxes according to your ability to pay, your level of income, not your personal preferance. There Aint No Such Thing As a Free Lunch. Or as Robert A. Heinlein put it, TANSTAFL. But freedom of speech means you can object to taxes all you want. No problem.
   
   What makes this comment worthy of a post are two statements together - the declaration that he hates liberals, followed immediately with the threat of violence. My question is directed primarily to moderates/conservatives. (IMO, the position of liberals is clear. They will not revolt against a legitimate election.)
   
   Is it appropriate to threaten violence against your opponents in a democracy? If you loose at the ballot box, is armed revolution an appropriate response?

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   1. 90

      Rochelle Frankposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ...
      Not at all appropriate, and not what the founders envisioned.
      I rarely agree with strong liberal views, but taking up arms should only be appropriate when expression of views is stomped upon.

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      1. 60

         Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         IMO, respecting the results of a free & fair election is NOT a strong liberal view. It's a strong American view. We seldom agree, Rochelle, but we agree on THAT! (That's not to suggest the losing party gives up - they retool for the next election.)
         
         The time is coming soon when conservatives in defense of democracy will have to decide if they can stand WITH the government they recently voted against. I predict most conservatives WILL, because most conservatives are FOR democracy more than they are AGAINST Obama.

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            Rochelle Frankposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Now I am starting to worry I agree with all of that.

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   2. 59

      tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I guess it is no worse then a Democrat State Rep in Wisconsin named Gordon Lintz telling his Republican colleague Michelle Litjens in a rep meeting " YOU'RE F****G DEAD !Is that the type of dialogue you are talking about Doug ? Of course he apologized after it leaked to the press. And I am sure he meant it ! ( Insert eye roll here ). Doug you are the pot calling the kettle black !

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      1. 60

         Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Tony - show me the post where I threatened anyone. Can't find one?
         
         Expand the search. Find ANY liberal hubber who has made these kind of threats in the forums.
         
         What? Still can't find anything? Expand the search to political hubs. Where are all the violent liberals in the Hub universe. That's where I got this post, and the ink is barely dry.
         
         Now, Tony. Instead of hijacking the post, answer the question. Will you take up arms against the government if your side loosed in a free & fair election?

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         1. 59

            tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Doug I did not say you threatened anyone. What I do say is that you cannot be calling the other side the bad guys when libs go around spewing the violent rhetoric that you all claim to abhor. It is called hypocrisy. How many libs were dissapointed that when Giffords got shot it was not a tea party member ? They may not say it but I guarantee you most of you libs were thinking it !But I know you would never admit it. Oh by the way I don't own a gun because I don't like them.
            
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKJkvDn_Xz8
            
            Plenty more where this came from

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            1. 76

               lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               It wasn't that he was a Tea-P'er, it was that he was influenced by TP rhetoric, ala Beck and Palin.

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               1. 59

                  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Chris his associates and former friends were interviewed by both 60 minutes and Good morning America and they said he was apolitical , so that statement is just not true. I watched both interviews.

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                  1. 60

                     Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Tony - where are the violent quotes from liberal hubbers.
                     
                     You made a claim. Back it up. I provided a recent quote from this forum.
                     
                     I invited you to provide just ONE violent quote from ANY liberal on this forum or ANY hub from ANY time.
                     
                     You can't do it. But you want to perpetuate the myth.

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                     1. 59

                        tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I said LIBERALs , I did not say a thing about hubbers. You chose to read it that way. What I did say is that Libs in general spew the violent rhetoric and then point the finger at their opposition as the bad guy. And I stand by that. If I ever read a liberal hub most of the time I just give itr a brief gaze and then roll my eyes.

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                  2. 76

                     lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, I was really speaking for myself,since that was said about me. That was not my gripe...that he was a t-p'er. TP rhetoric was my gripe, ala Beck and Palin.
                     And I did not see that interview, but I have read that he personally had something against her.
                     But, I also saw an FBI guy testify during that radical muslim hearing just the other day, and he said that the "lone-killer" theory is never about just one person. He said there are always others involved.---
                     And, a San Fransicso professor received threatening letters much like the ones Gifford's got--So much so, that the police investigated.
                     So, I'm just saying, we might never know what that was really all about.

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   3. 59

      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If there is a revolt in this country it will come from the left. They are by far the more angry,  violent, and dependent on entitlements they feel they are owed. Just look at WI... did the protestoes there care about elections? The democrats refused to be part of the process and the mod of protestors refused to accept the outcome if free and fair elections... they behaved in an angry violent manner destroying property etc. Its the left that are the radicals bomb throwers and fire starters! The left will be the revolutionaries and they will revolt as soon as they learn the government is broke and can't give them their entitlements and that day is coming... but it will be the right that defends this nation!

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      1. 60

         Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We did notice that you did not answer the question of the OP.
         
         Let me rephrase and we will all watch you dance around it. Hypothetically,  after a free & fair election in 2012, if President Obama wins, and the lunatics, such as the one I quoted, undertake domestic terrorism (see Christian Hutaree as an example) do you stand WITH democracy and WITH the president (even if you voted against him) or do you support domestic terrorism and revolution?

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         1. 59

            lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Of course if Obama wins I'll accept that! Needless to say I'll be shocked given his poor performance... but it is possible he'll crank up the treasury printing presses and create the illusion of a recovery but surely we wont survive as the nation we know and love surely that strategy will lead to certain destruction probably before he finishes his second term. Then well need guns to protect ourselves and our property from chaos and injustice. Its frightening but that is the course the dems want to go down.

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            1. 64

               Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               So to clarify, are you a 'no' on the second term, or should we put you down as still undecided?

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                  lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Lol! I was a no on the first term!!!

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                     Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     why?  if he didnt start to 'ruin' the country until he got elected?

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            weholdthesetruthsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Conservatives do not engage in terrorism.   You liar.   it's lefties who do.
            
            EVery riot in this country has been an action of the left.

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            1. 64

               Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               What about the Great White Oaks Country club rebellion of 1984?
               (the Chef had the nerve to serve the dark meat of the turkey at the annual Daughters of the Revolution Thanksgiving day dinner)

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            2. 62

               Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Historicaly, they've prefered lynching

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   4. 60

      weholdthesetruthsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      LOL, yes, we will have to defend ourselves from you. 
      
      You see, the benefits of our soceity do NOT COME FROM TAXES PAID.
      
      They come from freedom, and the lack of control by people like you.

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      1. 60

         John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         But the most basic of freedoms is the freedom of thought and expression, both so vehemently opposed by you!

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            weholdthesetruthsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Our freedoms come from our creator.

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            1. 64

               Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Al Gore?

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               1. 62

                  Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  LaLo

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            2. 0

               PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Stephen, is that you?
               
               

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            3. 60

               John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You?

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      2. 62

         Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         The British?  Been there done that move on.

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         1. 60

            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Is Doug British then?

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            1. 62

               Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yup.  Fish 'n chips and mushy peas.
               
               What's all this then?

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2. 78

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   You betcha, Doug!
   Don't tread on me you Government drone!
   We're already armed. The revolution is coming!

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   1. 60

      Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What, I'm a government drone because I'm a mailman?
      
      I think Obama will win in 2012. I think some of the teabagger lunatics may undertake 'revolution' in the form of domestic terrorism in 2013. I think I know where the government will stand. I am SURE know where liberals stand. I'm curious where conservatives stand, particularly those who will vote against Obama, but believe in democracy.

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         weholdthesetruthsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         No, you're a government drone becasue the only thing you ever advocate is more money and power to the government.

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3. 78

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   LOL, Doug.
   I forgot you are a mailman! I only used that terminology because I was being sarcastic about the source of your OP. I believe the quotee's meaning is ."tyrannical Government drones" = all liberals.
   I could just as easily called you a "leech on the ass of society." Equally ridiculous.
   
   It's frightening to think we could end up with Civil War II. But given the ideological vehemence of the "pro-constitution" movement, if (when) Obama gets reelected, I believe it could happen!

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   1. 70

      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Mighty Mom, it's not so much a civil war, but a racial one.
      If Obama doesn't break the "status quo", there will be no change in America that will be beneficial to the citizens. It will be just another politician lying to the public to get into office, so that another layer of political BS can be spewed.
      
      Equal rights and Equality is still a problem in America, even though Obama(a black man) was elected. The racial problems still have yet to be quelled. Ever since Obama took office, it's all been about "entitlements" for the poor, which defeats fixing the country as a whole.

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4. 78

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   Ooh, Cags. You'd better not let the TP hear you saying that! According to them, there is no racial inequality in this country. There is no wealth envy.
   There are only two kinds of people:
   Those who love America and defend the Constitution and those who hate America and want to destroy it.
   Which side are you on?
   And what are you packing?

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   1. 70

      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You mean TP as in the Tinkerbell Party?
      That bill of goods has no way, shape or form of being sold to the overall of the country.
      Well, at least they are right on that- Male and Female.
      But, I guess one would have to think like them, to be on the side of who love America and want to defend the Constitution. Well, at least I know who I am up against. Considering the Tinkerbell Party would have trouble fighting their way out of wet paper bag.
      I have no side, I am for servicing America- middle of the road.
      Not presently, but it isn't a problem to be.

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5. 64

   Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

   it is also ok for the government to safeguard the constitution and lock up those who promote or participate in violent activities to overthrow the elected government.
   
   The crime is called 'treason'

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6. 78

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   Oh Tony, I can't possibly believe any libs were disappointed Gabby Giffords' shooter wasn't a member of the Tea Party. Can you?
   
   I do agree that that that Dem. senator said to the Republican senator in WI was not cool. Not at all. But it was said in the heat of anger and (I assume, but could be wrong) was meant figuratively, not literally.
   
   What Doug is asking about is how widespread is the "movement" to "forcefully defend our liberty" (presumably that means using violence, armed militia, etc.) against liberals (tyranical government drones)?
   The words seem serious and deliberate -- spoken out of hatred, not just anger. Should libs expect a literal revolution or not?

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   1. 59

      tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      MM I love ya and you know it but it seems to me that all the violent rhetoric comes from the libs. Ever drop by Huffington Post or Daily Kos ? They could make the Klan or the Nazis blush ! I will say this over a year ago I wrote a hub about the Ideological revolution that was starting to take place in this country. Now I for one don't believe it will go the civil war route. But when you are talking about ramped up rhetoric to just blame the tea party and conservatives in general is a lie, I say the libs are the catalyst for the hate speech.

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      1. 70

         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I can just imagine what is going to be said about me when my feet are on the ground and running.

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