Whether it is perceived as a arm of the right wing or an angry leaderless mob, can the Tea Partiers gather a solid base and agenda to adequately achieve any change or is the damage already done to defeat its' purpose?
The only problem with the tea parties image is people like Bloomberg (Mayor of New York) blaming them for things they haven't done.
And the happy hubbers who denigrate them daily without a shred of proof that they are racist or planning insurrection.
But since when did liberal shills need actual proof of anything?
Their message is still solid no matter what crap the opposition tries to throw up (pun intended )
no more taxes, less government interference in our lives, belief in our Constitution
what's not to like?
The tea party's problem is that they're hugely ideologically divided themselves. Divide them in half and I'm not sure there's enough left or a distinct enough platform to sustain them.
They are not really anything more than groups of people in different parts of the country. It's not a completely organized movement. How do you accurately define who or what they are. It's mostly just a name applied to a movement. So what exactly is their image? And who is really running the show?
No one. That's why it scares so many people. It's just a bunch of Americans completely fed up with how things are going in this country - left or right, it doesn't matter. And the fact that it isn't "organized", that regular people would just all agree and get together to speak out is just too much for some. Especially those "in power".
I think the Tea Party lost its way when it decided to focus so much attention on Obama. In many ways it's Fox News' fault for highlighting so much of the Tea Party's actions over the past year, but ignoring them for the previous decade, but the Tea Party also was not as vocal during that time. The fact is, George W. Bush was a fiscally irresponsible president. The debts he created were not paid for with higher current taxes, so they just accumulated. At some point the debt has to be paid down, otherwise we doom our future.
The Tea Party movement lost credibility among many because they were clearly not as vocal when the debt was being accumulated as they are now when we're trying to figure out a way to pay it. The health care bill is a red herring, because the actual expense that will be involved when you factor funding insurance for millions vs. the savings from preventative care previously unavailable (among other savings) is small compared to the cost of funding a multi-front war.
I've got a few simple questions for Tea Party supporters. Please answer them honestly:
How long have you been a part of the Tea Party movement?
How much have your taxes gone up since January 2009?
What is your preferred news network?
DB- your questions are cursory at best.
1. there were always those who protested government waste - it has only been recently that our deficit skyrocketed into the trillions (yes, Bush was partly to blame, so let's lay off the partisan stuff, ok?) and the movement dubbed "tea party"
2. these bills, stimulus and healthcare, will not make any of us see a tax increase for while yet
3. is this last question meant to be divisive?
On the first point: the Tea Party movement was formed a couple weeks after Obama was sworn in. I wanted to illustrate this point because I've noticed several columnists claiming that the TP movement goes back decades. It was, in fact, formed as a direct result of Barack Obama being elected president, even before he had time to implement any policies for them to protest. That raises concerns about credibility immediately.
Second point: the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan haven't caused our taxes to go up either. They all add to the national debt, so what makes everything Obama spends money on worthy of protests?
Third point: these Tea Party protests are relatively small, yet they're getting a lot of attention from certain news networks (cough, ahem). These certain news networks have even been caught inciting crowds to cheer on cue and even showing photos of crowds from another rally in Washington D.C. to make it appear that the Tea Party events have more supporters than they really do.
A peculiar take on the FOX coverage of the TP movement is that it may have backfired.
With CNN and other mainstream media covering negative banners and slogans the participants chant, there seems to be an image that can't be overcome.
Is a radical or at the very least impassioned call to action distasteful to the voter and doomed the movement? Or is the extreme nature of the TP movement bound to evoke a more conservative change in government?
"On the first point: the Tea Party movement was formed a couple weeks after Obama was sworn in"
So how can you criticize Fox News for not covering them "for the previous decade"?
"May Day 2010:We Made Another History!
Hundreds of Thousands Marched Across The US
Against Racist AZ SB 1070 and Demands for
Immigrant Workers Rights!"
More than the tea-party, how about that?
Nobody's scared of them are they?
Marching against the gvt. is nothing new...the tea-partiers just think they invented the wheel, that's all.
If just ONE of them ripped up their Social Security check, they'd have a lot more credibilty!
If just one of them who weren't ELIGIBLE for their checks would tear them up, in ANY Party, we might be on the way to reforming Government benefits properly instead of heading for socialism where able-bodied-and-minded people are looking for a handout.
Grammas and Grampas are....duh....OLD people who we SHOULD be taking care of, as are babies and disabled people.
Why in the world the Democrats and others who call for socialism don't understand the difference between helping the needy and giving handouts to the greedy is totally beyond me!
You are kidding right?
My gramma never put money in to the system....she got SS til she was 89.
It was a give-away so she could live her old age in dignity...
Something certain people like to take for themselves, but never think anyone else is deserving of.
How about we call it the Take-It- For-Me party?
Rhymes with tea!
I'm not kidding, no. You're "gramma" received money from a system she never payed into, you like that kind of stuff, whats the problem?
So, who exactly are you mad at?
Who are the greedy people taking hand-outs?
Michelle Bachmann perhaps?
Quarter mil for her family farm...was that necessary? She's not old or disabled!
How about Dick Armey? Worked for the gvt in 2 or 3 different levels..double or triple dipping the tax-payers dime, yet calls others greedy?
Who exactly is greedy that tea-parties protest?
Scott Brown is the Tea Party Candidate who won a special election in Massachusetts. What's interesting is that when Palin and Company came through Boston last month (April 15) Scott Brown was a 'No Show'. This si the most telling indication of how the movement has lost its luster and some conservatives are distancing themselves from the rhetoric.
Dick Armey is the man behind the curtain. He's a GOP insider ex-lobeyist. When all is said and done, he's gonna make sure his rich budddies have all the tax havens they want - and depsite enrolling Grandma in a 'grass-roots movement' all this is about is saving rich people from paying their fair share of taxes.
I'm sure to you "their fair share of taxes" would be 100% of the taxes rather than the 60% they pay now.
What will you do when the tax revenue isn't what it was?
Oh yeah, I guess I should phrase that different.
What ARE you doing now that the tax revenue isn't what it was?
That happens when you unfairly tax people, they find ways around it!
Rich People - REALLY rich people don't take home a paycheck an pay incom tax like you or I do. They make thier money in a kind of income called 'Capital Gains". Cap gains is not taxed at 60% - it is taxes at 15%.
"The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation's net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%. "
http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/facult … wealth.htm
There is something very wrong with a working bloke sweating in the sun paying a higher tax rate than a guy who inherited it and 'makes' 10 times as much and only breaks a sweat laying out by the pool.
The teabaggers - whether they know it on not - whether they like it or not - are suckers for the guy by the pool. The cornerstone of the tebagger movement is lower taxes - and with conservativess - whenever there is tax reform - the lions share of the benefit - benefits the aristocrats.
This truly sounds like an experienced voice.
Please tell us more of your teabagging excapades Doug. They are truly revealing as to your character and integrity. Not very interesting otherwise.
It's not interesting to you that a WORKING guy can pay more than THREE TIMES the rate in income taxes - than a nonworking aristocrat does on calital gains??? Is it not interesting - or is the real tax structure not a subject you want hubbers to become familiar with?
15% of how much in capital gains?
15% of say 4 Million is considerably more than you will ever have to pay!
Stick to your guns, maybe you will convince another shill!
Just to keep it factual - If you earn over 375K, that lands you in the top bracket which is 35%. If you don't work and your source of income is what's called capital gains, you pay 15% on that.
The 'Taxed Enough Already' crowd doesnt want you to know the score on taxes.
The score on taxes, gee Doug, all anyone has to do is search the IRS site and get that information.
Let me guess, the tea partiers have gained control of the internet and are deleting all information?
Buckie - You are the one who threw out the misleading deceptive and false number of 60%. Yes, I go out on the Internet to TRY to put out factual - and sourced numbers. (I do make mistakes, and I own them when I do.) But I don't just make stuff up.. like some people on the Fourm.
Just to keep it factual, achieving capital gains comes with risk, and all the losses just suck away capital, and can't be deducted, accepting $3000 a year. There is a thing called capital RISK involved in trying to achieve a capital gain. And you can lose every nickel to your name and be left getting a $3000 a year deduction until you die. Sounds fun huh?
You are likening super rich people who play with their money to the upper class American who worked their tails off to have what they have, paid taxes on that money they earned, and invested what was left after taxes, and a huge percentage of what they saved and invested is gone already thanks to the financial crisis, funny how no one wanted to bail them out -- so I'd say it will be a very long time before the pocket book of the fed gets what they are accustomed to from capital gains taxes from the average Americans.
Dang, I forgot again, you are brilliant, sorry, I'll remember next time to let what you have to say stand as the gospel.
"achieving capital gains comes with risk"
And the working middle-clas guy doesn't take risk??? He takes a risk when he selects a college - a major, takes his first job, and with every career choice he makes in his working life. He can be wiped out just as certainly through NO fault of his own. Ask the Enron employees who lost everything. But you seem to suggest that the risk for the aristocrat is greater than for a working stiff - and I disagree.
And you are wrong, the entrepreneur assumes more risk than the average guy working for someone else! Furthermore they work many more hours than the guy at Kinkos!
Most College educated people are working towards being wealthy not just working to survive, so you want to punish the people you say you want to protect!
I would rather discuss teabagging with you?
When did you first start taking an interest in teabagging?
I would bet it was in the 70's.
I am the guy by the pool!
I feel bad that you have failed, but its not up to me to support your life, sorry about your luck!
Where is that girl with my Tequila shot!
I am not trying to hijack anything. YOU are the one who keeps bringing up your old bagging buddies.
"Throughout all of the misinformed and contradictory right-wing antics of the past year, I've been wondering how post-Bush Republicans and conservatives can possibly square all of their newly found affinity for freedom, liberty and the Constitution considering their eight year support for Bush era policies. Policies like illegal wiretaps of American citizens, the USA Patriot Act, suspension of habeas corpus (it's in the Constitution) and all the rest of it.
In fact, Glenn Beck said recently that he failed to speak out back then but, "It doesn't matter. I'm here now." Convenient timing. History appears to have skipped the first decade of the 21st century."
Exactly, Mr. Cesca.
Where were they when it was all going down? On the side of the government!!!
Teamonkeys started losing their appeal when it was discovered that they are actually just a type of brine shrimp. They aren't nearly as cute as the ads portray them.
The TEA party movement has not died, so needs no resurrection...it's all in any one person's particular head, not reality
I receive emails from at least 25 different "right minded" groups that all have the same foundation stones...getting back to following Constitutional law and limited government as conceived by the Founding Fathers, fiscal responsibility (regardless of political party), and free markets, a capitalist economic system.
Each different group has their own particular "bent" on each of those same foundation stones, yet they all consider themselves to be of the TEA Party movement, as well as conservative values, most in their perception run along the lines of the Founding Fathers and Biblical morals...but not all exactly the same either.
It really would be a challenge for liberal minded people to see the unity behind that seeming appearance of disunity that the TEA people have...I see that unity as a spiritual thing, that I rarely "see" or "hear" from liberal minded folks...but I do from some. Otherwise I would feel much less hope for the planet.
I read that almost half of Americans pay NO income tax at all! Plus, they can get refunds that far surpass what was taken out of their paychecks. Distribution of wealth.
The collection of income tax is part of the formula that is counted towards your tax burden as a citizen. You pay all sorts of other taxes related to just living in the country.
If a person buys a car there are a whole lot of taxes that are levied on the car that are paid along the line besides the tax you pay for buying the car. Many other items are handeled the same way. in order for the government to offer any relief and keep you buying products to stimulate the economic growth, they allow deductions from your tax burden to help.
The question comes into play how do they determine the amount of tax relief is adequate with regard to items and taxes being collected.
Freedom of speech is everyone's right no matter if you agree with what one says or not. I always say, balance is key in everything known. My hubby and I paid $ thousands in taxes in the recent past years!
by Doug Hughes 9 years ago
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by SparklingJewel 10 years ago
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