Islam in America, Shari'a or the Constitution?

1. 60

   TMMasonposted 14 years ago

   This should not be allowed in the U.S.. it is unexceptable.
   
   Building the American Islamic Caliphate, One Enclave at a Time     
   
   http://www.islamist-watch.org/
   
   It seems almost unthinkable, but Islamist groups are, as we speak, hard at work creating Muslim states-within-states in the U.S. Indeed, this process has been unfolding for a long time across the Western world, through the creation of isolated Muslim enclaves in both rural and urban areas, as well as through the designation of "no-go zones" where governments admit to having little authority over Muslims living there, essentially leaving them to function as autonomous regions.
   
   Daniel Pipes has tracked numerous examples since 2004 of Muslim groups working to create communities based solely on Islam and run by Shari'a law. As discussed by David Kennedy Houck in 2006, "Although such concepts are antithetical to a free society, U.S. democracy allows the internal enclave to function beyond the established boundaries of our constitutional framework."
   
   For example, one such community, Gwynn Oak, has been created in Baltimore, Maryland, consisting of Muslim immigrants and African-American converts. The project is led by John Yahya Cason, director of the Islamic Education and Community Development Initiative. Cason explained that the neighborhood is a response to the problem that "Muslim communities are ruled by Western societal tenets, many of which clash with Islamic norms." In his opinion, there is a need for communities with "the totality of the essential components of Muslim social, economic, and political structure." As such, the Gwynn Oak enclave follows specific moral rules based on Islam and people there speak Arabic. On September 13, 2009, the construction of its three-story mosque began. Approximately 400 Muslims now live in the vicinity.
   
   Another example involves the Islamic Center for Human Excellence, which receives funding from the United Arab Emirates. In August 2004, it was granted permission to build a Muslim neighborhood in Little Rock, Arkansas, complete with a mosque, school, and 22 homes; it would not allow the presence of alcohol. The goal was for Muslims to find an area to escape the alleged crime and depravity of American life, although the imam behind the effort said that non-Muslims are welcome to join.
   
   Far more radical groups than these are now taking the lead in promoting and creating Islamic enclaves on U.S. soil.
   
   One such organization is As-Sabiqun, headed by Imam Abdul Alim Musa, who is very honest about his disturbing objectives. The group's website calls for installing Islamic law worldwide, fighting for "oppressed" Muslims, and "build[ing] model communities where Islam is lived." The website contains a point-by-point plan to assemble mini-states in America, beginning with the construction of a mosque and finishing with "establishing geographical integrity by encouraging Muslims of the community to live in close proximity to the masjid [mosque]" and "establishing social welfare institutions."
   
   The ideology espoused by Musa and As-Sabiqun is undeniably radical. The website boasts about Musa's early endorsement of Ayatollah Khomeini and the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran. It also is unafraid to say that As-Sabiqun members follow people like Hasan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood; Maulana Mawdudi, who called on Muslims to wage jihad until Shari'a law is in place over the globe; and Sayyid Qutb, the Muslim Brotherhood member whose preaching inspired Osama bin Laden. Musa himself has argued that the CIA and Israel were behind the 9/11 attacks. He has admitted that he "like[s]" bin Laden, calls Hezbollah "a great organization," and says Hamas members are "very nice people."
   
   Muslims of the Americas, led by Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani in Pakistan, is a very similar group with very similar aims, though its focus is more rural than urban. It admits to owning at least 22 "villages" around the country that are dozens of acres large and operate under names like "Islamberg," "Holy Islamville," and "Aliville." These Muslim-only lands are open to outsiders solely during planned outreach events and sometimes to journalists.
   
   This group has received considerable media attention due to allegations that its isolated compounds are used for paramilitary training, an accusation bolstered by a videotape released by the Christian Action Network. On that tape, a speaker is seen declaring the U.S. a Muslim country and pledging that Muslims of the Americas will defend American Muslims from foreign and domestic enemies.
   
   The ideology of Muslims of the Americas is comparable to that of As-Sabiqun, although it is more centered on following Gilani as a representative of God who is capable of creating miracles. Gilani is very anti-Semitic, describing Jews as "an example of human Satans"; like Musa, he insists that a Jewish-Zionist conspiracy is behind the attacks of September 11, 2001, and other schemes to harm Muslims. He calls bin Laden a "Saudi activist," while claiming to meet with Jesus and personally to have introduced the Mahdi to a select few.
   
   The Department of Homeland Security says that Muslims of the Americas is linked to Jamaat ul-Fuqra, a Pakistani terrorist group. The State Department's Patterns of Global Terrorism report in 1998 described ul-Fuqra as an "Islamic sect that seeks to purify Islam through violence." Other fronts for the group include the International Quranic Open University, the United Muslim-Christian Forum, the Islamic Post newspaper, the Muslim Scouts of America, the Hands to Hands charity, Muslim Vets, the American Muslim Medical and Relief Team, and the Islamic Naat Group.
   
   Another collective aspiring to create autonomous Muslim regions in the U.S. is called the Ummah. On October 28, 2009, the FBI tried to arrest one of its leaders, Imam Luqman Ameen Abdullah, for his involvement in criminal activity alongside some of his followers. A shootout ensued that took the life of Abdullah and one police dog. Like Muslims of the Americas, Abdullah offered his flock martial arts training and, in some cases, firearms instruction. He also had his own armed security team and preached war against the U.S. government and solidarity with bin Laden, the Taliban, and Hezbollah.
   
   The FBI describes the Ummah as a "nationwide radical fundamentalist Sunni group consisting mainly of African-Americans" and says that its goal is to create "a separate, sovereign Islamic state ('the Ummah') within the borders of the United States, governed by Shari'a law. The Ummah is to be ruled over by Jamil Abdullah al-Amin, formerly known as H. Rap Brown." The death of Luqman Ameen Abdullah did not destroy this aim.
   
   http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2010/July14/1413.html
   
   Amazing the things we allow to go on in this country... no wonder there won't be an America in a few years. This country should be about ready to balkanize any time now.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What is actually Amazing is that I have seen you right wingnuts argue that the Federales need to be kept out of local Government Inc so the people living in the community get more control.
      
      Now you don't like that idea so much?

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         TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         feds out of local govt... -Vs- ... Closed Islamic community.
         
         Hurm... lemme see.
         
         What could be the difference in those two concepts?

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            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Deliberately obtuse as usual. LOLOLOL You guys are so funny. You want to be left to create a community run by locals and argue that you want to decide on abortion etc locally -  Until a Muslim community sets up shop.

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         2. 61

            Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The difference is that you hate Muslims and are wiling to set aside the Constitution to persecute them.
            
            'freedom from unreasonalble search and seizure'
            
            Absolutely, if there is evidence  they are breaking the law, get a warrent and make arrests as the evidence dictates. Mormans stick together - nothng illegal or sisnister about that. There are states with abnormally high concentrations of *gasp* Catholics.
            
            There's all kinds of 'closed' communities from nudist camps to gun clubs. Until they are in violation of the law, it's their business.

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      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friends
      
      Quran/Islam state that whenever the human beings rule; they should rule the human  beings with equity, equality and justice. In  the present sense this would mean a secular rule.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      1. 60

         TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Are you really trying to say Shari'a is secular?
         
         And are you denying that in any country where a Muslim is living under anything other than Shari'a, they are considered to be living under oppression?
         
         And we know opressing a muslim or ummah in any way, validates Jihad against that oppressor.

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2. 60

   TMMasonposted 14 years ago

   American communities include everyone... not just Muslims to the exclusion of everyone else.
   
   It is simple, guys... try to keep up.
   
   But as usual it is the same ole leftists BS about hating and equating.
   
   LOL you all are too funny.

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   1. 61

      Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "American communities include everyone.."
      
      There's a retirement community up the street - 55+. If a young couple wants to buy in that deed-restricted community - they can't.
      
      Some forms of discrimination are illegal on the basis of race, for example. But people of like mind can and do set up closed communities.

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   Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

   prophecynewswatch?  a division of fox?
   
   I see you're well on your way to another banning.

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Probrably,.. considering the entire staff are leftists and the site is located in Berkley.
      
      And all us conservstives on here know the lil games the leftists and the staff play on here... so you guys do what-ever it is you think you have to. Your not gonna force me to shut up... Hubs and you leftists can play your lil games... I don't quit.
      
      I have already been hit by the staff with thier biased suspensions... doesn't bother me.
      
      it just re-inforces the facts as stated above.

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      1. 61

         Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Prophecy News Watch - Biblical Prophecy in the News
         
         Keeping you informed on the latest developments of Bible Prophecy in world news.
         
         Ohhhh puhleeese - this is a SOURCE????????????????

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      2. 59

         Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Facts?
         
         Btw, this isn't golf.  1 is not impressive.

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4. 67

   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   TM I think Muslims, like the Amish and the Mormons and the Hassidic Jews should be allowed to have their own communities.  There is nothing against the law about setting up your own community as long as you observe the laws.
   
   However if members of these communities do break our laws, they will be prosecuted.  Honor killings, blood feuds, being kept in your house against your will and the like will be prosecuted.  Terrorist activities will be prosecuted.  Aspects of Shariah Law if they are against our law will be prosecuted.  These communities can be monitored just like the nazi militias and the like.

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for your honest and un-insulting answer, Flight.
      
      My problem comes from the assimilation aspect of it all, or lack thereof.
      
      To have mass inmigrations of thousand, if not tens of thousands of muslims to America and straight into these communities, or for the express purpose of starting these communities, seems very worrisome to me.
      
      Islam' does contain an express command to impliment Shari'a in all countries which have Muslim populations. it is a matter of fact under Shari'a that Muslims not allowed to live under Shari'a are by definition being oppressed. That, in its own,  justifiesJihad to impliment Shari'a in that country.

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      1. 67

         Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well I understand, but if we allow the Amish and the Mormons then that same courtesy extends to the Muslims.  Given that we are a very different society from their homeland and from Europe, I actually have better expectation that they won't be so insular.
         
         Regarding Jihad and if they carry it out, it is against the law and our Constitution.  In addition, we like to carry guns.  I have no reservation that if the Jihadists try anything that Americans will bring them down.
         
         As for Sharia, our laws supersede that and if they expect otherwise, they will be corrected.

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            TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I really don't think the Amish and Mormons are good similarities to Islam.
            
            But I get what your saying and appreciate your view.

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               PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You know, TM, if they're all in one place, they'll be easier to watch.  Doesn't that make you feel safer?  After all, the NSA does spy on Americans now, so even if they become citizens, monitoring them won't be a problem. 

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                  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  lol...

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      habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is pretty much my view, also.

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      1. 59

         Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Ramen

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5. 61

   mikelongposted 14 years ago

   "Another example involves the Islamic Center for Human Excellence, which receives funding from the United Arab Emirates. In August 2004, it was granted permission to build a Muslim neighborhood in Little Rock, Arkansas, complete with a mosque, school, and 22 homes; it would not allow the presence of alcohol. The goal was for Muslims to find an area to escape the alleged crime and depravity of American life, although the imam behind the effort said that non-Muslims are welcome to join."
   
   
   Oooooooo....scary...  Sounds like the Amish a little, no?  I thought there was religious freedom in the United States......
   
   I love how people point out the "foreignor" aspect...."from the United Arab Emirates..."...
   
   So, if Christian or Jewish (or Hindu/Buddhist or any other group) built holy buildings, or built up groups for themselves would they be subjected to the same scrutiny?
   
   No..
   
   But, the "Muslim" phantom menace has to be maintained in order to keep the many religiously paranoid and ethnocentric in this country paying for wars that are of our own doing, and have less to do with a threat to America than the threat America poses to people in other nations and regions...
   
   Islam needs to continue to be portrayed as the enemy.....that way the trillion plus dollars of resources under Afghanistan can be harvested by the few, the lame, the "Western" plutocrat....
   
   Nonsense....
   
   Knowing Muslims, there are many who do not seek to live under Sharia law, which is why they come to the United States. As for others, Islam is not one religion with one set of values....the same as Christianity or Judaism....there are many different views and interpretations...  And as the pilgrims left England (more of a threat concerning world terror than Afghans or Iraqis) seeking freedom from persecution, so too do many of their modern day Muslim counterparts....
   
   "Fear fear fear fear" tactics combined with the stupidity of "rah rah rah" for the illusion of "the West"....used by those who are truly destoying our nation from the inside....one more expensive invasion at a time.... 
   
   It is the 500 billion plus defense industry that should be scrutinized....it is the threat of bankruptcy that they hang over our heads that we should be concerned about.... 
   
   ...and to keep that gravy train flowing.....they need to keep the "enemies" thriving.....it is best for business....and worse for us.

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I love the way leant leftists equate and then justify by its use. Amish and Islam...
      
      As I said earlier, no comparison, not even to the Mormons

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         Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         This may go by those who don't follow the people who post, but..
         
         you just accused Flightkepper of beng leftist.
         
         Perhaps if you are so far out that yoou have defined an issue in a way FK and I are in agreement, perhaps it's time to check your meds, too much, too little, drug interaction or just smokin' the cheap stuff.

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            TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No, Doug.
            
            That reply was to MIke... keep up, please.
            
            I have already stated to Flight, that though I agree with her in part... I do not agree with the comparisons.

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6. 60

   Evan G Rogersposted 14 years ago

   TMMason, your claims that this sort of stuff can NOT be allowed, no matter what... is... really ... sad.
   
   Read the Constitution - the government is what the people make it in this country.
   
   Also, your claim that it's either the Constitution or that Shangrilah (or whatever) document you talk about is nonsense.
   
   let me put this in a bit of perspective...
   
   CHRISTIANS ARE COMING TO THIS NATION AND STARTING THEIR OWN LOCAL CITIES!!! THEY'RE USING THE BIBLE TO FORM THEIR LAWS!! THAT MEANS THAT THEY HATE AMERICA AND ARE TAKING IT OVER!!
   
   PSssst... it already happened! Our constitution merely shows the outlines of what the federal government can do. Any law that says "Every woman has to wear a burka" is unconstitutional (if passed by congress, that is). 
   
   So quite yer whinin'!

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Whaa, evan... grow up and quit your own whining.
      
      Shari'a is in no way compatable with our constitution.
      
      That is just a fact.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         perty much the same wot yer biybel sez innit?

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7. 67

   SparklingJewelposted 14 years ago

   well, there is a beautiful Buddhist temple in a small town south of the Twin Cities in Minnesota and the Twin Cities has the largest community of Tibetans in the United States...but there is not one Buddhist, that I have ever heard that turned terrorist with their interpretation of Buddhism...
   
   Or the Amish, say, they make beautiful furniture and quilts and not much technology in some of areas where groups have grown...but not one have I ever heard of that became a terrorist under interpretation of their religion...
   
   it is sad, but it is on the shoulders of the majority of Muslims to stand up and denounce terrorism in Islam...and it was a long time before that happened, and is still not happening enough to make a lot of difference with some...
   
   Americans don't even follow the Constitution...how can we expect others to?

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8. 61

   mikelongposted 14 years ago

   Mason....I am only on the left if you put me there.....
   
   I am simply a man with my own perspectives, and if you choose to classify and segregate my position in a construct of your own design and then deride it, you are then simply perpetuating the same ignorant nonsense that ethno-religious bigots have used over centuries to try to gain delusions of importance..
   
   You are just the same old, same old squawking box that has sought infighting and conflict across time....and you probably thought you were being original...
   
   I have no side or place in your silly political game....I'll let the charlatans embarrass themselves publicly and watch as the gaggle heads flock around and do their little dance...

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