Thinking, but Mostly About Qurans, Muslims, Islam, And The "Mosque"

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   Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years ago

   My favorite people on this forum are the people who disagree with me.
   The people who agree with me don't pose a challenge for me to think.
   
   In the last few days I have had food poisoning and so that has given me a lot of time to be very active on these forums, and my mind has been changed many ways by many people, all of them people who did not agree with something I had said.
   
   For this, I thank you.  You have posed challenges to me, caused me to rethink the way I feel about things, rethink what I know about things, and just THINK in general.  And that is what makes us human, our ability to THINK.
   
   That being said, I would like to go ahead and put this out there:
   
   Can we all THINK for just a moment?
   I have two things I would like you all to think about.
   
   FIRST, The Cordoba Center is not a Mosque.  It is a community center for the education on Islam.
   
   It is no more a Mosque than the community center for the education on Christianity (in Washington DC, can't remember it's name, but my family lives there and I've been to it) is a Church.
   
   There are community centers on Judaism, Buddhism, Scientology, Catholicism, and as I stated, Christianity.  This does not make them anything more than a community center.  Not Temples.  Not Synagogues, nor Churches.
   
   If you strongly feel that 2 blocks away from Ground Zero is too close, that's fine.  I am not arguing that.  But please, stop calling it a Mosque, and it's not "at Ground Zero".  If you're two blocks away from the Grocery Store, are you at the Grocery Store?  If you're two blocks away from home, are you at home?
   
   The second thing is this:
   
   We, as Americans, have the right to burn the Quran in protest.  Personally, I think that's awesome.  I wake up every day excited that we have these freedoms.
   
   But, a lot of people have said here "well, they do it to us! They burn our Bibles! They burn our Flag!"  Yeah, they do, I've seen it on my boob-tube.  I've seen it on the internet (which tells nothing but the truth, right?).
   
   Is that really an excuse for us to do it, though?  Wouldn't we be BETTER people, if we didn't?
   
   When I was a kid, I was raised that when someone insults you, the better person doesn't insult back.  Why stoop to their level?  That just makes you as bad of a person as them.
   
   My parents, being raised in Christian families (my father was VERY active in his Church, ran the youth group until late into his 20's, and my mother's grand parents were both missionaries) instilled the "turn the other cheek" mentality into me this way.
   
   If we burn the Quran because "they burn our Bibles" doesn't that just make us as bad of people as they are?
   
   Just some things to think about.  I look forward to your thoughts, to keep me thinking. :-)
   
   Thanks!

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      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "turn the other cheek"
      
      So they can slap you on the other cheek?
      
      Its this simple, burning the Koran or any other Muslim holy thing will not put us in any more or less danger.
      
      The Muslims who want to kill us don't really need a reason.
      
      Its what they do.

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         habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, Jim, but this will anger and incite even moderate Muslims.

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            Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            If that is true they are not exactly moderate are they?

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               habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               That depends on how they channel their anger.

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                  Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  "Yes, Jim, but this will anger and incite even moderate Muslims."
                  
                  I took the word incite to mean they would turn to violence.
                  
                  That may not be how you meant it.
                  
                  My only reason for showing this Pastor in Florida support is because burning the Koran is within his rights.
                  
                  Building the Mosque/community center (where people will worship Allah, and anywhere you worship is a church ) Many people on Hubpages were in support of the building in New York because it was within the rights of the building owner.
                  
                  So why not support the Pastor?
                  
                  Oh yeah, I forgot, they are hypocrites.

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                     Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I haven't seen anyone here say he doesn't have the RIGHT to burn the Quran.
                     
                     But I have seen a lot of "I don't feel he should".

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                        Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        "But I have seen a lot of "I don't feel he should".
                        
                        That may be true but when some of us said they shouldn't build the mosque we were called bigots.
                        
                        Hypocrites is the only way to describe them.

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                           Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I don't doubt that there are hypocrites on both sides of the fence around here.

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         Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I am not arguing here "burning the Koran or any other Muslim holy thing will not put us in any more or less danger."
         
         I am not arguing here "The Muslims who want to kill us don't really need a reason."
         
         I said nothing about either of those things, they are irrelevant to what I said.
         
         In fact, I agree with those statements.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nice thoughts.
      
      
      Let me challenge you with this---
      
      Do you think it was worth fighting for, for the settlers to get the heck away from England's tyranny?
      
      Do you think it was worth fighting for in the Civil War, to put an end to slavery?
      
      Or should everyone (in Nationally-important matters like that) have just kept "turning the other cheek"?
      
      And if so, exactly WHERE and WHO should start the process of becoming martyrs?    Shouldn't the Indians have turned the other cheek?   Shouldn't the African slaves have just kept turning the other cheek?   Shouldn't anyone who's attacked in any manner...just turn the other cheek?   If a loved one or friend of yours was being physically attacked,  would you just tell them to turn the other cheek?

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         Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, yes, and no.
         
         But burning the Quran "because they burn our Bibles/Flag" is different.
         
         Them flying planes into our buildings, I totally think we needed to take action against that.
         
         I'm just saying that I think "we're burning their book because they burn ours" is a stupid and childish reason.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            ...I don't think the Pastor was gonna burn books because they burned ours.
            I think he was opposing the fact that an IMAM in a high political position has shown NO tolerance for the feelings nor the views of the majority of Americans.

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               Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I have no evidence at all that supports that the Pastor said that nor implied that, so I would have to agree with you here.  But what I said was:
               
               "
               But, a lot of people have said here "well, they do it to us! They burn our Bibles! They burn our Flag!"
               "
               
               I'm referring to people here on Hubpages arguing about it.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Okay.
                  
                  Well...it's true, though!
                  Once again,  should we always turn the other cheek?   Or at what point do we stop?

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                     Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, my opinion is that something like burning a symbol (be it a book, flag, statue, etc) is stupid.  It's nothing but a slap on the cheek.  Sure, it stings for a bit, and it might leave a red mark for a few minutes, but there's no lasting damage.  It's just the destruction of a symbol, something that represents something else.
                     
                     Other situations, like flying planes into buildings, or maybe dropping bombs from airplanes, or even suicide bombing on a train, well those certainly deserve justice.  Turning the other cheek, in those situations, is not enough.
                     
                     Although they do say if you ignore a bully enough he'll leave you alone.  Is that the case here? Well I have no idea, that's not something I can decide or even make an educated opinion on. It's just an old saying.

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   raisingmeposted 14 years ago

   Agreed - what you resist you become.

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   habeeposted 14 years ago

   Sorry, Garrett - I agree with you! Does this mean you don't like me??

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      Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hahah I like everybody!

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   habeeposted 14 years ago

   That's a good attitude to have! I like everyone here, too.

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   habeeposted 14 years ago

   How many times did Christ say we should forgive?

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   Reality Bytesposted 14 years ago

   Can't we all agree to just burn Justin Beiber CDs instead?

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      Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's bad for the environment.
      
      Lets just prevent more from being made and use the ones that already exist as cool reflector things to hang from our ceilings (it's cool, try it).
      
      Or find some other way to recycle them.

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         Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I was , put off, at first. Very mistrustful, I geuss. Having had my own beliefs and civil rights violated by christian and secular ignorance, but if we are to claim the Moral Highground, and I feel we must, then we must HOLD the Moral Highground, and embrace the Muslim community in the spirit of freedom. To do otherwise emboldens the terrorists. They wanted to make us change our "openness" they wanted to create "division". Make no mistake, any attempt to fundamentally change the law of the land, as in Sharia, must run the gamut. According to OUR laws, it would be "unconstitutional" because of civil rights violations inherent in Sharia Law itself. Americans must be ready to defend the liberty of not just ourselves, but all Americans, regardless of race ,color, or religious beliefs.

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            Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Right on!

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      habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Lol! My 7-year-old granddaughter loves him! It's her first crush.

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         Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         well we must cancel that burning also.  We do not want our elementary schools turned into a cacophony of protesting children.
         
         

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

   Just because a dangerous beast stays at a distance of 2 Kms, can we keep quiet?
   
   Just because a poisonous snake is just 2 yards away, can we keep quiet?
   
   Just because the nuclear arsenal of Iran is thousands of miles away and not near America, do you keep quiet? North Korea possess nuclear weapons and threaten South Korea and others of bombing with nuclear weapons.... can we keep quiet?
   
   Just because the so called mosque or community center is two blocks away from ground zero, do you think it is safe for you?

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      Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "Just because a dangerous beast stays at a distance of 2 Kms, can we keep quiet?"
      
      Yes, maybe if we keep quiet, it will go away (and hide under our bed sheets, I hear that works).
      
      "Just because a poisonous snake is just 2 yards away, can we keep quiet?"
      
      2 yards is only 6 feet.  2 city blocks in NYC is a lot more than 6 feet.  Conversion irrelevant. Also, snakes don't follow sound so I don't think our keeping quiet will make a difference to it.
      
      "Just because the nuclear arsenal of Iran is thousands of miles away and not near America, do you keep quiet? North Korea possess nuclear weapons and threaten South Korea and others of bombing with nuclear weapons.... can we keep quiet?"
      
      Yes, because we have NORAD which will shoot down any missiles. I will sleep soundly tonight.
      
      "Just because the so called mosque or community center is two blocks away from ground zero, do you think it is safe for you?"
      
      Yes, I do not fear buildings.  With as much controversy that is surrounding it, I do not fear for a second that they will use it to store guns or anything illegal, as you can be sure that our government will be keeping a close watch on them.  Also, it is open to the public.

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      Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No. Shoot the beast full of tranquilizers, slap him in a cage, then feed him a couple times a day. Bottle feed him on truth and liberty. Teach him that freedom is the way to go. Dress him up in the clothes of his "Master", and teach him your ways. Remove him from his religion, and force his spirit to become white. Worked with the native americans. NOT REALLY!!! It was once said "The only good indian, is a dead indian. Now you're talking like a "True" american NOT!

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         Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Ever heard this? "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer!"

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            Garrett Mickleyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Sun Tzu said that.
            
            I think people are more into this saying now:
            
            "Keep our doors closed and minds closeder!"
            
            Grammatical error intentional.

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               Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               

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