After the outright murder of 4 people on their boat, minding their own business sailing around the world, I say when pirates are caught, dish out the same treatment to them!
Send 'em to a watery grave without compunction!
What say you?
I would say you are ignorant of the fact that the Europeans, Russians and Japanese have been dumping all sorts of waste into their waters, and have fished the waters to the point where no Somalis can live off the sea - their traditional way of life.
So it would stand to reason they board private vessels and murder everybody.
Why don't you send them a croissant.
I suspect that if Mexican fishing boats were fishing American fish stocks dry, and dumping toxic waste in the Gulf of Mexico, you would probably be blowing foreign boats out of the water too.
Somalian pirates actually only operate in waters defined as Somalian, in order to avoid being blown to bits they would only need to travel around the defined boundary in International waters.
Somalians live on an average $2 a day. Rather than investing hundreds of millions in blowing up desperate people, why not invest some of our military budgets in aid packages?
Since the pirates emerged in Somalia the fishing stocks have returned, and with that the fishing boats are returning, and with that less people are starving. Therefore to Somalians the pirates are nothing other than life savers and heroes.
Good for them.
Somebody else just sees them as targets.
If the only things you owned were a boat and a gun, with no fish in the sea and no arable land, how would you feed your children?
Your boat, by the way, is made of steel and wood and not of jelly babies and icecream.
Then they need to turn their pirates into aggressive coast guard who keep international poaching fishers away, and have the decency and sense to leave other people passing through alone. Yes, Somali pirates are heros in their country, but all it breeds is justification for pillage and plunder and that's a Somali trait for generations already. When is enough, enough?
They are NOT using their heads or their power, or their resources wisely. They are acting stupid. Buying into them being victims is only enabling them to continue to be murderers.
They do effectively serve that purpose Dan. The fish are returning, and as such so is the food on their plates.
It may be unconventional but if pillaging, kidnapping and killing those who enter waters which are not defined as International waters is working in protecting their livelyhoods then they will see no reason to stop.
If the US, UK, Japanese military was to use their boats in order to prevent illegal fishing instead of illegal pirates then the pirates probably wouldn't exist in the first place (the boats would be used for fishing).
What you are effectively condoning is the theft of food from a third world country by developed countries, and denying the right of that third world country to defend themselves the only way that they can afford to.
There is no change from $2 per person per day to invest in a defence budget Dan, as simple as that, Guerilla warfare is the only type which is affordable on a budget like that.... and that means stealing.
They actually very rarely kill, they hold 650 hostages at the moment and growing. Most get released when ransoms are paid.
They will have no reason to stop because they have been enabled, and enable and justify to themselves how profitable piracy is. It won't stop. It's human nature for them to continue as long as it will be allowed.
I don't have any real arguments about this. I do disagree with some perceptions, but they are just my perceptions of yours. So in the end, the only thing that matters here is what is actually happening, not what any of our perceptions of what is actually happening.
In other words, if what is actually happening a problem, how can it be solved so that it's equitable for everyone involved? So what if it takes time to get there, what's the next step toward it? If piracy was the first step, then what's the next step that's better. That's all I'm trying to say. Piracy is getting worn out. It may have worked for a while, but quite frankly, it's pretty stupid as a long range solution.
And no, I don't have any long range solutions, but I have made my observations based on other experiences.
Aww. Sorry you cannot understand why they are angry. Starvation does that to people.
I'll be there first to admit that I am ignorant human being.
I know of what you speak, have known it and the suffering of many others related to and caused by universal ignorance and greed.
These people, even tho they were "missionaries," did not deserve the treatment they received!
These were unarmed, innocent civilians who, granted, were not too bright, but undeserving of death by those who were also suffering and trying to survive.
I would reward death with death.
That is because you have not taken the trouble to learn the underlying situation. Rather surprised at you as well. "Kill em all and let god sort it out"?
What is this "god" thing you just mentioned? lol :
Oh yes, I am just another human creature who's genetic programming makes me a "natural-born-killer."
I'm into the primitive barbarism of destroying those who are, seemingly, unadaptable.
Mother nature does it without compunction.
I guess I'm just an easily led follower of the way of "Gaia."
Remember there is a concept called "vengeance!"
I know, I know: "Vengeance is mine sayeth the lord."
I don't know what that means, being the ignorant creature I am, so, hell, I'll take vengeance into my own hands if passed action warrants it.
If these starving, deprived Somalis, knowingly, decide to gamble their lives being pirates, so be it when they lose.
You know that I am pessimistic about the future of our infantile species.
I'm just a fortunate, surviving product of billions of yrs of evolution, but still a simpleton making the best of things as they exist.
Nice chatting with ya Mark. :
Nice chatting with you also - but these peopel have been very seriously messed with. They were starving and had little option. Especially when "salvation" arrived - from the very same people who had raped their only way of feeding themselves.
This is how it works. Or was wounded knee a terrorist act? Sitting Bull a terrorist? The American war of Independence an act of terrorism?
Or simply pushed too far?
As I said, we are infantile and functioning at that level of sophistication.
All layers of human history have been rife with man's inhumanity to man.
Remember, the greatest "progress" man has made since his appearance, has been realized in the past 100 yrs. If we last another 100 (which is doubtful) progress will have advanced like a geometric progression!
If we don't learn to control our environment and evolution continues at its slow tortuous rate, it will take another (approximation) couple hundred thousand years before our genetic programming for predation can be sublimated (being that we are a complex organism) into a more genteel, social and civilized human creature.
I don't have to remind you that we are a crafty, predator which uses guile to survive.
But we are still "primitives" relative to knowledge gained. The illogical fear that is created by universal ignorance may be our undoing.
I understand your concern! :
Nice summary. I was trying to be idealistic/humanistic and help them avoid losing the battle, but maybe that's not the right view. And maybe they haven't determined the odds are probably not in their favor in the long run.
True, but piracy and murder aren't the answer.
Anyway, if you're dumb enough to sail a ship in dangerous waters without hiring protection, then... well... what do you expect?
"Hey, let's go walking through Central Park at 3AM with a big flashing sign saying 'I got money, but no gun!'"
Basically the same thing....
I agree with Mark on this one. You do what you will when you are needy.
They have no goverment structure, they are being split into factions by Mongering Groups including the US, and they have no means to eat well.
Adress the Core issues first, and help them to solve it themselves.
Killing them will not stop hunger and need. It only proves to the rest that they also must fight and loot to get what they need.
They have to see reasons and incentive to become world citizens, and act accordingly, and from direct experience I can tell you, when you are hungry, and in serious need? You see nothing when a Gun barrel is pointed at you.
Remember folks, "What we allow, we teach..!" Think about it.
Q ? Are you feeling Ok? "An eye for an eye"...is this how dost really think?
It's the way of the species: Homo/sapienssapiens.
An "eye-for-an-eye," a death-for-a-death.
If you are, alledgedly, a christian fellow and have studied your "bible," it's also the way of your biblical god thing.
"IT" flies into psychotic rages and demands the murder of men, women, children, the unborn, their pets and flocks! Or hadn't your read that far yet?
Yep, if they kill, kill 'em on the spot.
I understand that Somali life is tough. So are the lives of the Urubu tribesmen of S America, but they don't take human life anymore.
Now I have to admit Manly, that missionaries had a hand in changing their cannibalistic ways.
Hey, maybe the riches of the Vatican could be helpful. It's worth billions! Do ya think the pope could be convinced to be "christ like" and back the Somali peoples with some of their fantastic wealth? The "jesus" I used to study would sure give it a try if he had that kind of money.
I'm just dreaming. I know.
Q? Are ya' feeling well...'cause gosh dang...I juz' about agree with you on everything for a change (Makes me wonder if the polar ice caps are about to switch...or already have...according to a few.) Especially, the "pope' thang...Q! You really do have a heart after all! Happy day...after all!
They should have shot the ringleaders in the head and killed the rest!
"Treat Somali Pirates like the Terrorists They Are!"
The force that they use on others will be used on them. Pretty much the law of physics. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.
The Somalis have been wronged. (Who hasn't.) But perpetrating what they are on the high seas is not a very good answer to their woes. They might want to rethink this strategy because it's pissing off the world. A little thought, negotiation, and equitable bargaining might save their sorry a$$es. So far, there is no evidence of that. They are going to lose on this one, in the end, and so is every body else.
I stopped by because I knew your post would be thoughtful and reasoned. It is, and I agree!
Dear me. You have no clue do you? They are starving to death because we have walked in with factory fishing ships and taken all the fish that used to feed them.
What would you do?
I would starting blogging and make money off Adsense
Ahhh, I think you've struck on something here. They could jam the forums with cries for help on how to make money on hubpages as well.
Yeah good one, my internet connection per month costs the equivalent of 15 days money for the average Somalian. Add electricity and it costs more to run my computer than a Somalian gets in a month.
Why don't you donate a few computers them? Or are they going to have to steal them from boats first?
you know i was being sarcastic (wouldn't want increased blogging competition anyway)
I should have known, my bad
You are a mysterious chap Greek One, something tells me that we should all know who you are, hmmmm
Since you asked...
My real name is Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi
I am a Gemini and I am looking for casual relationships.
I Hub mainly for fun because I already have a day job that involves killing people and drinking gin until I end up looking like this..
Yeah, I have to admit that your face is a little unfortunate, but I'm sure that the world will learn to see your true inner-beauty.
And, if they don't, just roll a tank over them. Naturally.
This man needs overhaul, fashion, facial, morality etc...He rather see the people dead than being ousted of his power. GREEDY!!
He ordered the Lockerbie bombing as well according to the official who defected
They already lost it. They have had their only livelihood forcibly taken from them by foreign vessels over fishing their waters - now they are starving to death. What would you do?
I understand the problem. But I believe their brain power is pretty much nonexistent if they believe piracy is their only option. Countries are bought and sold into slavery because of bargaining and negotiation. If they are the bad boys they claim, they ought to use their heads and enter into some tough negotiations. They are only victims because they think they are. Those who over come being a victim are the ones who set the standards. If they don't know how, then they better start thinking about how to do it more.
No - this is and was their only option. Dear oh dear. Rather surprised to see this from you. Did not realize you were OK with this sort of behavior from the powers that be. They are starving to death and had nothing to negotiate with apart from this.
Not as bad as being foreclosed upon by a bank mind you - but almost.
The option of keeping poachers out is fine. Terrorizing others passing through is not so good, is it. I don't even suppose it would be fine even if you were on one of yachts passing through that got attacked. The only point I really feel strongly about is that if poachers continue to poach, then they have taken justified action. The rest is very short sightedness.
An eye for an eye only makes the world blind.
How could they keep the poachers out? Fishing factories protected by modern gun boats.
They should each save 3 cents per day and buy industrial strength stink bombs from my Hubpage, clearly
http://hubpages.com/hub/Buy-Stink-Bombs … s-For-Sale
(I would like to apologise unreservedly to any American negatively affected by the 5 industrial strength stink bombs that I have sold in the past six months).
I'm still mad, but I will consider your apology.
An eye for an eye is a good strategy when dealing with industrial strength stink bombs by the way, especially when purchased via Amazon through an affiliate link
But an "i" for an "i" will require you to buy a vowel from Vanna White. (American "Wheel of Fortune.")
I have no idea how that effects stink bombs....
hmmmm.... revenge? I will need to ponder the ethics of this.
I see what you're saying Mark. I don't entirely disagree. I just think piracy as a long term solution is going to eventually set them back further than they were. They need to move to the next step and it needs to be better than piracy.
Whilst I agree that piracy cannot be condoned, irrespective of any sympathy that I may possess for their people, would the best solution for non-Somalians not be to:
a) stop sailing through Somalian waters, and certainly stop fishing.
b) offer to pay a toll charge for use of their waters, in order to revitalise their economy, just like the Suez canal. And still stop fishing in their waters.
Seeing as the pirates only operate in their waters, as a defacto branch of government (their system collapsed), either of those would certainly be preferable to me as opposed to bloodshed and the inevitable huge "rebuilding" packages which would be required when:
a) the battles move inland and we destroy their infrastructure
b) the people starve because they now can't fish their waters at all.
If America wants another war then so be it, I don't want the UK involved in it though. Especially as it will only serve to make the fundamentalist muslims in the country stronger as a result.
Great idea, let's starve the Somalians, and create 9 million more extreme muslims. Then we can borrow another trillion dollars for an "african war on terror" from China and fu*ck ourselves up the ar*se again.
Sorry I just disagree with this one. You lot can have the war, I don't want ANY other wars involving the UK unless it happens on our own soil.
Don't wait until they are caught... just fire first... maybe their military leaders might stop supporting them then
I believe now that there is sufficient chance to issue bounties on them. You know... Like .50 cents per ear! $1.00 for their parrot!
This is an international problem... parrots have a very high resale value!
And yes, their coastline was used as a dump site... And The Same Military and Political Leaders got an income out of that before they sold the fishermen on the 'get even' game!
Those drums of Toxic Goo have now become Reefs that support fish again... albeit the fish are grossly deformed... but hey.. that's the coastline argument out the window! And even though those new fish breeds have bony growths within the flesh.. they are afterall food and highly lickable if they rot there teeth at first bite!
The fishermen get bugger all in the equation anyway as the leaders (who are not ex fishermen) hold them to ransom basically as well if they don't attack ships.
Maybe just take the Parrots from the fishermen and shoot the leaders..
But at the end of the day.... they are decisions made by choice and they choose to be Pirates... $1.00 for ears... $2.00 for parrots... 1 bullet for the boss.
Awwwwwwwckkkkkkkkk pieces of 8... pieces of 8!!
The corruption is the problem, when did that become part of the equation for justification to rape the resources of others? The country is not resourceless it is merely corruptly run and structured... WTF has Ice Cream got to do with it? And it Ain't a God Issue either! Take their Parrots!! Save a Fish!!
that was by far worth reading this string all the way to the end for!
thank you for a perfect response,... i agree compleetly!
i believe the answer to piracy is privateering,.... i volunteer to captain the first boat,.... i'll collect the parots and teach them to sing "yo ho blow the pirate up",... we'll get famous on u-tube,....mabey take the endorsement deal away from that cute little lizard.
that off my chest,.... the entire continant fufferes from the same problem,.... its africa.
i have no sympathy for the hungrydown trodden defence,....
i grew up hungry, went to bed hungry more than once, in a shack of a house that the wind howled through in winter,...... my childhood was filled wit the sounds of fights, wife beating, abuse in many extrems,.... it never once ocoured to me that kidnapping the little old church lady next door was my ticket to prosperity!
"it never once ocoured to me that kidnapping the little old church lady next door was my ticket to prosperity!"
Did it ever occur to you to kill your father? Because I think that would be more comparable to what the Somali pirates are doing than kidnapping the lady next door, unless she knew about the abuse and never tried to do anything about it.
We may regard the yachting enthusiasts they just killed as innocents, but I'd bet quite a lot that the Somalis themselves don't, just as the Islamic world tends to blame "Americans" for the deaths of Palestinian (and Afghan and Iraqi) children, rather than the specific Americans who are directly responsible. It's not fair, but when you're starving (or watching your children starve, or watching them get blown to pieces by shells), fairness isn't really at the top of most people's priority lists.
The pirates should be punished for breaking the law, but punishing them isn't going to stop the piracy. Only removing the underlying conditions causing it - the destruction of their legal livelihood as a result of overfishing (often illegal) by the international fishing fleet - will do that.
no one pointed an acusatory finger at my dad.... and young kids aged 6-16 dont roughtinely kill people, nor should they, the emotional damage from that is just as destructive as the abuse it seeks to stop.
i'm flabbergasted that your answer is for me to kill my father,... based on 2-3 senteces you read on line.
has it ever ocoured to any one that once having tasted the fruits of piracy, fishing is not an endevor these thugs are going to happily return to?
nothing is as simple as handing a fishing net back to the hands that have held a gun, and felt the power it wields, and seen the quick fortune it can bring.
the problem with africa is that its africa..... and i've personaly written it off,... like a dog that bites.
ArggggggggggggggHG! Load the cannon matey and train ye eyes on the scoundrels, blow the scourge from the foam and send’em to old Hob!
Problem is you can’t target them until they do something and prove themselves pirates, not unlike terrorists.
However given that reportedly well over six hundred people are still being held hostage for ransom, a multinational invasion force to rescue these people seems more than reasonable, if a few hundred pirates are killed in the process perhaps they might relearn the forgotten lessons of the Barbery Wars in the early 1800’s.
There were tales of sea pirates in the medieval periods. All came to an end when the British empire expanded world-wide. After the decline of that empire, it seems that the pirates are raising their heads again. It is not impossible to finish them.. But for everything, the UNO has to be consulted. If they give a blanket permission, I think the pirate-menace will come to an end.
Mark, I don't see how you think killing innocent civilians is the answer. I don't support "an-eye-for-an-eye" mentality, even for convicted murderers, much less for innocent persons. I could understand stealing and even holding hostages until ransom is paid, but not killing. What purpose did it serve? Does it help the Somalians in the eyes of the world?
I can take his sense of fashion but not him as a person..
LOL, Greek One, you made me laugh....
Greek One. I didn't know you apply whitening cream as well. You couldn't be that guy, you're just a stone..
Poor starving pirates! One question: How the heck do they feed 600 hostages? Where did they get their weapons to catch/shoot people? May be it is just more fun to kidnap somebody than to work hard trying to support yourself in a poor country? easy money. May be instead of working two jobs I should go and kidnap a rich guy? Or rob a bank? I like your way of thinking,Mark,but not this time. Kidnaping and killing are not justifiable, and they do kill people. They are just bandits as far as I am concerned. Unlawful cruel brainless bandits.
Pirates should be treated today as they were all through history, a rope with their names on it.
It's amazing to watch Americans speak out about 4 innocent victims being killed. They have no problem with the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women and children their country killed for oil. They have no problem with they fact we intentionally bombed power plants and water treatment plants. They stood and cheered when Bush imposed sanctions that intentionally blocked the importation of chlorine to purify their drinking water. They cheered the intentional poisoning of these people and yet seem shocked that some doesn't like them and returns the favor. According to them there is no judtifiable reason for any group of people to die if the good christians of this country demand it,
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