Guantanamo Bay
To close or not to close, that is the question. This has been a hard decision for the President and the Justice department. Perhaps if it was not a political position as well as a campaign promise, maybe it could be examined properly. Why is there a detention center on this island to start with. It was formed under the Bush administration as a place to hold captured suspected terrorists and process them. In this facility the suspects were to be questioned, charged and tried under a military tribunal for there alleged crimes. Controversy surrounds the treatment of the suspects. Accusations of torture, religious persecution, improper feeding, and more. With this cloud over the facility, President Obama tried to close Gitmo down and more the suspects to the US and try them in federal court. He was not successful.
The United States spent a lot of taxpayer dollars to build this facility and the cost continues in order to keep it operational. Is there a way to offset the cost but keep the objectives behind Gitmos formation? Here is a possible solution. Is terrorism a United States problem? No, it is a world wide problem. Some countries take it seriously, some do not. The countries that do not take it seriously say they do. They arrest, convict and send to jail these terrorists. Then they release them several weeks later to resume their ways. Perfect example was the Lockerbie bomber. He was convicted to a life sentence but was released. If these convicts were in a special facility, they would never get back in service. So why not make Gitmo a world terrorism court and detention facility. All countries would be required to supply Judges, Lawyers, guards and other required personnel as well as operational funding. This would ensure that every country is watching each other, fair trials can be given in a reasonable time, sentences can be carried out and no one can be released before their time.
A Gitmo International Judicial System would serve the world with honor as well as performing their mandate with professionalism and honor.
"The United States spent a lot of taxpayer dollars to build this facility and the cost continues in order to keep it operational."
GITMO existed long before 9/11. It was obviously "upgraded" to handle these new detainees. However there were three camps well established for housing detainees and refugees long before 9/11.
Not for war or terrorists. Either you are to young or frogot how Gitmo came to be in the first place. This is just an alternative idea as to what to do with terrorists and bring the to justice, give them a trial instead of a POW or enemy combative label
Camp "X-RAY" existed prior to 9/11. Known criminals were detained there. Particularly, known drug runners and others who were attempting to flee Hati,Cuba, etc. and headed for the US. In fact there have been several instances of The Cuban government "cleaning out" their prison system. These former prisoners took to rafts headed for the US. Many were picked up by the Coast Guard.
Not too young, well versed on the history of the Base. Was stationed there during the 90's.
A perfect example of what? A miscarriage of justice?
There is far too much evidence of a fit up for anybody to consider the conviction sound.
So are you saying that the Lockerbie bomber was convicted of a crime he did not commit, or are you just embarresd by the fact your country, the UK had a hand in getting that criminal released?
I am saying that the evidence on which he was convicted was phoney. Do you think it sound to offer a key witness an extremely large amount of money dependent on a guilty verdict?
So the answer is yes, you think the Lockerbie bomber was convicted of a crime he did not commit.
I guess you missed the heros welcome he recived when he returned to Lybia. Or the lecture circiut he was on talking about the bombing and his role in it
Gitmo- "Open for Business"
If it wasn't for the operations of Gitmo, we would have never of caught Bin Laden. US authorities found out about this courier guy two years ago, and how? From a Gitmo inmate. So there you go.
And we're expected to believe that!
Right, do you want to buy the Tower of London?
She cannot buy it, I already own it and will not sell it.
[Groo voice]The small one, from Vegas.[/Groo voice]
Apparently knowledge of Bin Laden's courier's identity came from detainees are Gitmo.
I just noticed this trite, cynical pile of horse dung. Anyone who thinks that turning an illegal prison camp that routinely tortures and holds people without trial or representation is a fit place for anything other than preservation as a Dachau type museum needs medical attention.
There is a long standing court of justice in Europe, America turned its back on that upstanding institution when the rest of the world pointed out the illegality of its commercial for-profit warmongering - and where Bush is still under indictment for war crimes issued by several states.
Information that lead to the demise of Bin Laden came from Gitmo. Just someting to think about
That has yet to be confirmed, if I'm not mistaken.
From what I've heard, it was from "a detainee", not "a detainee at Guantanamo Bay".
It's disgusting that we've come to naturally consider the word "detainee" to be synonymous with tyrannical jailing of possibly innocent individuals.
Gitmo is an unholy symbol of tyranny.
As long as Gitmo is allowed to exist, we will be a police state without liberty
I guess jails and our justice system is an example of a police state. All I am suggesting is turn it into a world instituion and retention facility dealing only with terrorists. It would be administered by many countries. The accusations as to what Gitmo was would change, people would not be held for years without representation or without a resonable expectation of justice.
Under your suggestion we shouls close Attica Prison because of what the name represents in the past instead of the instition it has become. If we close everything because someones betrayal or mistake, nothing would be left open. We learn from our mistakes, correct them, make it right or better, and we move on
No, the problem is that you have a detention facility on foreign territory so that it is not bound by your laws, that's all.
Move it home, give the detainees full access to the law, problem sorted.
Actually, it is on a US base and that makes it US soil. Just like your Embassy in the US is on UK soil. Learn your history
whereever the hell it is, the people in there are being tortured without trial for decades.
The US can rot in hell until it's abolished.
IN accordance with the Geneva Accords they can be detained until the end of hostilities. As non-uniformed combatants they could have been summarily executed on the battle field. I prefer that action far more than the silliness it stirs in some Americans who get weepy when people who would cut their throat and the throats of their children get good medical care, Halal compliant meals and uninterrupted religious observance far from the battle field while being able to throw nasty little presents of feces, semen and urine on their guards yet remain unmolested.
Evan,
I read your hub page. If you truly feel that way, then leave the US and the education from our institutions. I see you like going to our collages. By the way, of course other countries teach history and present the US in a different light. Come on, do you think Germany teaches WWII the same way the US does
So... your argument is: "Accept that we torture people, or get out"
"O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea! "
PS- I LOVE going to 'collages', they're very beautiful. I also love to ask questions without using question marks.
I taught English in Japan for four years. I'm fully aware that other countries teach history different than we do. What the hell does that have to do with closing Gitmo down?
Nothing, you were the one who said " THE US CAN ROT IN HELL" Not me. I am very proud to be an American. I speak with a voice, when I can speak due to the trach I have in my throat to help me breath, of a firefighter who was at gorund zero for 3 weeks 24-7. I was on a rescue detail then a recovery detail. I have seen up close what our enemies can do to us. This was not the first time I served my country or was willing to dye for it. So once again, if you think it is so bad here then leave.
once again, MY country was one founded on unalienable rights - amongst those being the pursuit of happiness. That country can soar with the angels.
The country I live in today is one of control, torture, broken promises and open lies. It can fester with the demons.
C'mon, John, we ALL know that EVERYONE the Amerr'kins catch are all terr'ists bent on murdering freedom and cooking Bald Eagles for dinner.
There are no "innocent ones": to be caught by Amerr'ka MEANS that you're evil and guilty.
DUH!!
No, like your British airbases are on British soil, not US soil.
Learn your history.
They are unlawful combatants. They should be tried by military tribunals. Unlawful combatants do not have the same rights as prisoners of war. But if they were treated as POWs they could never be released so long as Islam remains a gutter political-religious system of subjugation, intimidation, and conquest.
And what about the innocent? The unlawful prisoners?
And what has Islam got to do with it, really?
What about the innocent?
There are no unlawful prisoners.
You do realize, don't you, that all of the people who attacked us adhere to the religion of peace?
And you do realise that not all held at Guantanamo have attacked you don't you?
And you do realise that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter don't you? And you do realise that makes many Christians terrorists don't you?
Or do have have a different name for murderers of foreign children?
Which ones do you think were not involved in attacking us?
Fine. Let the others build their own detention centers.
You will have to explain this just a little bit better.
LOL. You might just be a kook.
Well, for a start, the Brits who were eventually released into British custody with not enough evidence for any sort of conviction, not even a parking ticket.
But you'd be outraged at the thought of an Islam run detention centre wouldn't you?
And what exactly don't you get about one man's terrorist eing another man's freedom fighter?
I'd rather be a kook than totally blind.
I certainly hope the Brits kept them in GB.
I would argue that it would call for a visit by special operators.
It is all about context. Is your argument that people who crash planes into buildings to kill civilians at work are freedom fighters? Or people who blow themselves up in street markets are freedom fighters? This is why I seek context.
LOL. I believe your wish is granted.
No, we do have some standards left and don't usually lock people up for being the wrong colour or the wrong religion.
"I would argue that it would call for a visit by special operators."
But not Gitmo?
"It is all about context. Is your argument that people who crash planes into buildings to kill civilians at work are freedom fighters? Or people who blow themselves up in street markets are freedom fighters? This is why I seek context. "
No doubt many see them that way.
Guantanamo Bay
To close or not to close, that is the question
KEEP IT OPEN FOR BUSINESS
No, Evan is right: if we've detained people on no evidence and not given them a trial, that's a crime.
If they were prisoners of war, and could be held until the end of hostilities, then we wouldn't be allowed to 'enhanced interrogate' them. You'll notice that the US has been very careful never to refer to the Guantanamo detainees as 'prisoners of war.' Why? Because under the Geneva Conventions you can't torture a POW.
I'm pretty disappointed in the "love it or leave it" comments. A real Patriot insists that his country should do right, rather than trying to justify the wrong actions of his country, which would be nationalism, not patriotism.
In all fairness, if they were captured in the theater of opperations under arms, it's hardly "NO EVIDENCE".
I don't think we should have ever brought them to US soil. It's pretty clear that we have gathered valuable intel and have also held people needlessly. In the our defense, many of these detainees were refused by their country of origin....We definitely got ourselves caught in a bad situation. However GITMO was the sympton, not the actual problem. The problem was how we addressed the "Global War on Terrorism". We started with a flawed idea and ended up with a civil rights nightmare.
But many were picked up going on pilgrimage, visiting family and other innocent things.
There is no doubt that the UK is nearly as excited by the terrorism threat as is the US, but when so many British citizens have been released into UK custody and almost as quickly giver their freedom for lack of evidence something somewhere stinks.
Agreed, there were obvious problems with the "selection" criteria. However, I would not imply that the majority of GITMO Detainees fit your description.
Hmm. You would have a point if any of the above applied. We detained large numbers of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. With some exceptions once it was clear an individual was at the wrong place at the wrong time we let them go.
Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is not enough evidence to hold someone. If we've got good evidence, then we need to try them; if not, then we need to release them. We're meant to give suspects a speedy trial, not let them rot in jail for years until everyone they know has assumed that they're dead, then release them and let them pick up the shards of their lives on their own. 'Cos really, if I were one of those guys who got mistakenly detained, and I didn't get out until ten years of my life had been lost, well, you can bet that when I get out, I'll be an enemy of the country that stole those years from me.
It might be. In war, sometimes bad things happen to innocent people.
This is a war. It is not a criminal issue. Unless we want to declare that anyone picked up on or near a battlefield not in uniform is an unlawful enemy combatant. If that is their crime then they could be punished for that and that alone.
They are not suspects. This is a war.
And you wonder why some Muslims hate you!
"They are not suspects. This is a war."
Then the US is in violation of the Geneva convention, and guilty of war crimes. 'Cos you don't get to torture POWs.
Or if they're not POWs, then we're guilty of violating our own constitution, because they're being held without trial, without a chance to challenge their detention, and so on and so on.
But it is America doing these things, so that's OK isn't it?
Well, no. They are unlawful combatants. They are not soldiers. They have not met the minimum requirements to be covered by the Geneva Convention. Nice try though.
Well no, they are alleged unlawful combatants.
"Alleged" is for criminal cases.
Were they caught on or near a battlefield?
Were they wearing the uniform of an enemy combatant?
If the answer to the first is yes and the second is no, they might be unlawful enemy combatants.
We rounded up thousands of people, identified them, confirmed their stories and released them. Except for the few whose stories did not check out.
"If the answer to the first is yes and the second is no, they might be unlawful enemy combatants."
And without a trial, it ain't proven. Unless you're willing to say that our unalienable rights are actually alienable after all.
Well,if you count the World as a battlefield then yes,otherwise no,many weren't caught on a battlefield.
They obviously were not wearing the uniform of an enemy combatant because they weren't enemy combatants.
Do you think it fair for the US to take five years to confirm their stories and then release them?
But then if you start off from the position that the US can do no wrong there is really no point in discussing anything with you is there?
Interesting. You might have a point. I shall have to investigate the number of people detained at GTMO who were not caught on or near a battlefield.
If they were fighting but not in uniform (and the rules on uniforms is very easy to meet) then they are unlawful enemy combatants.
Fair? There are a few hundred who are still detained. There were thousands who were captured, checked, and released. For the ones left let us go the military tribunal route. Those found guilty could then be executed, if, in fact, being an unlawful enemy combatant is a capital offense.
That is up to you. I have made no claims that the US is perfect. How could it be with President Obama as the head of the Executive Branch of government?
Well that's the dilemma I have, in one breath the head of your armed forces can do no right, and in the next he can do no wrong!
Fighting obviously includes visiting family, going on pilgrimage and the like.
How naughty of them not to wear uniform.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap … aker-aamer
Release them where? I think in some cases they are still there because their country of origin wont take them. Bring them to the US?
I think you and I can agree that there was NEVER any intent to "trying" most of these people. Simply rounding them up and "squeezing" them to see who would talk is more likely the intent. The whole thing turned into a media circus and divided the public. While the public's outrage may be real, the motivation was strictly political.
C'mon Berndt! It's so much easier to just yell at the top of your lungs the Star Spangled Banner than to think of how we're shitting all over the lives of innocents.
Come on all! Join together:
"O SAY CAN YOU SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! BY THE DAWN'S EARLY LIGHT, WHAT SO PROUDLY WE HAILED AT THE TWILIGHT'S LAST GLEAMING?! WHOSE BROAD STRIPES AND BRIGHT STARS, THRU THE PERILOUS FIGHT, O'ER THE RAMPARTS WE WATCHED WERE SO GALLANTLY STEAMING!!!!!!!!
AND THE ROCKET'S RED GLARE, THE BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR, GAVE PROOF THROUGH THE NIGHT THAT OUR FLAGS WERE STILL THERE. OH, SAY DOES THAT STAR-SPANGLED BANNER YET WAVE~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O'ER THE LAND OF THE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YEEEEE HAAAAAAW"
sing or die
Oh man.. I just watched that movie the other day.
So horribly awesome.
Jeff,
I agree. noone should be held without evidence. With my suggestion, due process can happen quicker than it is now. If there is no evidence they will be set free, just like our system of law here. When the charges are brought the if the judge sees there is not enough there or a doubts about why they were aprehended, he lets them go. No more holding prisoners for years on end with proper representation.
Sorry you were not happy with what you claim I said love it or leave it. I did not say to love it, I said if you believe the US should "rot in hell" then that person must not like the USA. So if someone is that unhappy leave. I will not let comments like that go unanswered. Sorry, but I believe strongly in this country even when our country makes mistakes. We learn from them and become a stronger nation
Sorry, but MY country was one founded on basic 'unalienable' human rights.
And, amongst those, is the pursuit of happiness.
You can't pursue happiness if you've been unlawfully throw in a cell and tortured without the hope of a trial for over a decade.
Man, I wonder if Yuki would wait for me if I disappeared for over a decade. I wonder if I could survive that torment.
The country that's doing this to people can rot in hell. The country that promises 'unalienable' rights to their people will float to the heavens.
Evan,
Based on your statment there would be no countries left. Let me just say this, ALL countries have engaged in torture whether it is past or present. I know you cannot be that blind to believe otherwise. Just one example, I know you liked living in Japan, but Japan has forgotten more about torture than we will ever know.
I do not know you or your wife personally. But I would bet the farm if Yuki knew you were alive, she would wait ten years for you. Maybe I am to much a sentimental person or maybe I am blind on that subject, but thats what I believe. While I was never gone for 10 years I had a wife that always wondered if I was coming home from my shift at the firehouse. Despite what she may have put herself through worrying about me, she was always there.
Really? Your argument is "well THEY did it!! Why can't we?!". You sound like a 5 year old asking his mommy for a new toy.
But, here's the kicker...
JAPAN STOPPED TORTURING PEOPLE. WE'RE STILL DOING IT.
PS: Japan DID torture quite a bit of people. Unit 731 was atrocious. ... but guess who paid money to get the data collected? WE DID. Sure, Japan DID the torturing, but we bought the data. So we already know as much as Japan did, AND we're still doing it. Japan probably is forgetting 'about torture', but we learned everything they did... but we're the ones torturing now. We learned, and we seem to be applying that knowledge.
You are blind and narrow minded. How you got that out of the post is beyond imagination, unless you just want to twist everthing to your unimportant point of view. My point was Everyone does it, not just the US, you were incinuating that only the US did it and they should rot in hell. By the way, Japan still does it today even to their own citizens. And Japan would not share any information with the US if they did there would no need for spies on both sides.
"My point was Everyone does it, not just the US,"
So much for American Exceptionalism.
Is that your justification then?
Everybody else does it so why shouldn't we!
No, it was definitely your post that I was responding to, did you not write "My point was Everyone does it, not just the US,"?
Hottopics said:
"You are blind and narrow minded. How you got that out of the post is beyond imagination, unless you just want to twist everthing to your unimportant point of view. My point was Everyone does it, not just the US, you were incinuating that only the US did it and they should rot in hell. By the way, Japan still does it today even to their own citizens. And Japan would not share any information with the US if they did there would no need for spies on both sides."
Earlier he said:
"Let me just say this, ALL countries have engaged in torture whether it is past or present."
My comment was in response to these points.
Just to clarify.
Don't worry, I'm pretty sure everyone (but one) has agreed to who the winners of this debate are/were.
And anyway, it wasn't Jeff's post hottopic responded to, it was Evan's.
So I don't think hottopic is in a very good position to criticize other peoples reading skills
Like I said, you did not read Jeffs. I know Evan made the first response. In fact this is my quota Evan and you responded to
"Based on your statment there would be no countries left. Let me just say this, ALL countries have engaged in torture whether it is past or present. I know you cannot be that blind to believe otherwise. Just one example, I know you liked living in Japan, but Japan has forgotten more about torture than we will ever know".
You stated "No, it was definitely your post that I was responding to, did you not write "My point was Everyone does it, not just the US,"?
So where did I write those exact words you accuse me if writing? I do not see them. So you either did not read them or you just wrote what you wanted to, out of context. misquoting is why politics is the way it is. It is also why some articles on Hubpages gets the reponses they do.
You should talk about who is in a good position. People in glass houses, well, why finish this quote.
Dude, you totally wrote that.
Lookie here:
"You are blind and narrow minded. How you got that out of the post is beyond imagination, unless you just want to twist everthing to your unimportant point of view. My point was Everyone does it, not just the US, you were incinuating that only the US did it and they should rot in hell. By the way, Japan still does it today even to their own citizens. And Japan would not share any information with the US if they did there would no need for spies on both sides."
I even put the sentence you don't seem to remember writing in bold italics so you could find it easier. I'll wait while you carefully re-read your own work.
"misquoting is why politics is the way it is."
Yeah, misquoting is a problem. But so is saying silly stuff, and then pretending that you never said it at all when someone accurately quotes you.
Put down the stones, dude. Seriously.
Well Jeff, you just proved my point. HERE COMES AN ENGLISH LESSON!! I put this in caps so you could read it easier. SENTENCES END WITH A PERIOD NOT A COMMA. You took a part of the sentence and changed the meaning to what you think not what the sentence actually means. My sentence "My point was Everyone does it, not just the US, you were incinuating that only the US did it and they should rot in hell." was in responce to Evans point the the US should rot in hell. He believes the US is the only nation doing this. Now that does not mean ite ok for the US to do it because everyone does it. The sentence in its entirety does not mean that. It was to point out like you that evan takes things out of context. Correcting someone who wants to twist everthing to there unimportant point of view is not throwig stones Dude. I notice when someone responds to your opinions you try to correct them. But like so many others, its OK for you but not for others
Using partial quotes or sentences is not quoting someone accurately
Alright, I'll quote the whole sentence :- "My point was Everyone does it, not just the US, you were incinuating that only the US did it and they should rot in hell."
Do you, or do you not deny that your point was "Everyone does it" if not, what was the purpose of writing that?
Nothing you say changes the meaning of the sentence, which :-
"My point was Everyone does it, not just the US," is the subject of the sentence. All the rest stands apart from that and certainly doesn't reverse the meaning of that statement.
MY POINT EXACTLY!!! Nothing I say, including the truth means nothing to you. You will continue to misquote, cahnge swtatements and fabricate. Once again since you cannot get a grasp on reality here is the sentence that you cannot get right:
"My point was Everyone does it, not just the US, you were incinuating that only the US did it and they should rot in hell".
Yes I do deny it. The point was in response to Evan who wanted the US to rot in hell because the US was the only country that tortured people. All I was pointing out was that the US was not the only country using enhanced interogation. As I wrote earlier which you left out was I do not believe that everyone should do something just because someone else does it. If that was the case we would have a Queen because UK has one, or a dictator because Libya has one.
"HERE COMES AN ENGLISH LESSON!! "
Okay.
"SENTENCES END WITH A PERIOD NOT A COMMA."
Correct, and a gold star for you, for demonstrating that you do know (one of) the rules of punctuation, even if you don't consistently put them into practice.
"You took a part of the sentence and changed the meaning to what you think not what the sentence actually means."
This is more of a stylistic point than a mechanical point, but the addition of a comma after the word think would make the meaning of this sentence clearer.
"My sentence "My point was Everyone does it, not just the US, you were incinuating that only the US did it and they should rot in hell." was in responce to Evans point the the US should rot in hell. "
You need a comma after the word sentence. I'm sure you meant insinuating. When quoting, use a comma instead of a period if you're going to continue the thought without starting a new sentence. It's spelled response. How many Evans are we talking about? Clearly you forgot the apostrophe. Also, what an egregious comma splice. Use a period and have two sentences.
"He believes the US is the only nation doing this."
No grammatical errors here, but a comprehension problem. Evan did not say, either explicitly or implicitly, that the US was the only nation that uses torture. He did however say that the US shouldn't be using torture, and is hypocritical for doing so.
"Now that does not mean ite ok for the US to do it because everyone does it. The sentence in its entirety does not mean that."
You mean, "it's ok," but typos happen.
"It was to point out like you that evan takes things out of context."
Proper nouns get a capital letter. Also, were you emulating me in pointing out that Evan takes things out of context, or were you trying to say that Evan and I both take things out of context? Your intent is unclear.
"Correcting someone who wants to twist everthing to there unimportant point of view is not throwig stones Dude."
You mean, "their unimportant point of view." But it can't be all that unimportant to you, since you've invested so much time and effort arguing (if you can call it that) against it. (Typos ignored for expediency.)
"I notice when someone responds to your opinions you try to correct them."
Well, I do argue my point, if that's what you mean. As do you. It's kind of expected.
"But like so many others, its OK for you but not for others"
Okay, first of all, a sentence ends with a period. Second, of course it's okay for others to argue their points. But it's not okay to say stuff and pretend you didn't say it, or to deliberately misconstrue someone's argument. Well, sometimes folks can get away with that, but I tend not to let them.
So how did you like the ENGLISH LESSON? Are you ready to put the stones down, now, Bard of Avon?
Finally, Evan never said that the US was the only country that tortures people. But he did rightly point out that the US isn't supposed to be doing that at all, no matter what other countries might be doing. When you point out that yes, the US tortures, but so do others, it sure as shootin' looks like you're saying, "Well, sure we torture, but so do other countries, so why should we do any different?"
We should do different because America was founded to be a better country. Someday, I hope that we become that country.
Jeff,
what a baby OK we concede, we are not worthy of you. Sorry we are not as perfect as you, but then again who could be, OH John Holden. I am sure you did not want to open the can of worms of correcting posts, even though thats how we got here in the first place.
By the way you too have proven my point you took a sentence and put your spin on it and put quations on it as if I said it. Wonder why that is? There is only one answer.
"When you point out that yes, the US tortures, but so do others, it sure as shootin' looks like you're saying, "Well, sure we torture, but so do other countries, so why should we do any different?"
Again I never said "so why should we do any different? And you to left out where I said " I do not believe that everyone should do something just because someone else does it.
"Sorry we are not as perfect as you..."
Well, you're the one who got all "time for an English lesson" when your own posts are rife with grammatical problems. And seeing as how your previous post had the glass houses reference, I just couldn't resist.
But fine, let's start fresh. Let me ask you straight up: do you think it's okay for the US to be torturing people? If so, why? If not, why not?
So this thread about the abomination of the American concentration camp at Guantanemo where people are routinely tortured has descended into semantics - grow up for f***s sake !
If the US condone illegal detention without trial, torture and assasination - how can they complain about others, how can they complain about terrorists who do just exactly the same thing - how can they hold up therir head in a supposedly civilised world.
Recommend,
I agree but babies will be babies. You are right about the detention center. That is why I posted an idea to eliminate that problem, get the accused proper representation, and give them a fast and fair trial, plus keep them in one secure place that will spread the cost across many nations thus saving the US money. It may not be a perfect plan, but it should not be taken out of context to promote someones personal; view. It is fine to disagree and be angry about Gitmo be noone has an answer to the problem. Notice those who critized me about what I said never offered another idea. That was what I was looking for here. I did another post on another subject and had a larger respnse than this one. There was not one post that was negative, Everyonemade a comment or a suggestion on how to address the problem. It was great to read all the ideas people had, many much better than mine
Why expect the world to legitimise the USs illegality?
I am looking for a change, not for the world to legitimise anything. That was the point to the article. It was a suggestion on handling the world terrorists and to give them fair shot at defending themselves and not be detained for years without representation. Besides close it or saying Ameirica sucks, do you have any suggestions?
Oh yes, plenty and I'll make them again for you.
Close it, move all the prisoners into real prisons on US soil, give the prisoners a chance to defend themselves, don't claim that the evidence is so sensitive that nobody, not even the prisoners can have access to it.
Stop all illegal torture, stop pretending things that are done to the prisoners is not torture because others did far worse things.
Don't expect the world to back your illegal activities, why would you expect the UK to pay you support for holding British citizens when there is not a shred of evidence to support your claims?
And stop acting like a bunch of terrorists.
Like I said, no ideas. By the way, do not lecture this country about anything. There are many terrorists hiding in the UK. Your Government does not want to arrest them for fear of being attacked. And who was behind letting the Lockerbie bomber go? The UK . OH thats right despite all the evidence you think he is innocent.
I suppose you're right, I mean the CIA spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on getting the evidence they wanted there was no way it could have been tainted!
Seeing as how that will be too subtle for you, what do you reckon to the CIA offering a poor shopkeeper either $100,000 or $150,000 on a successful conviction and zilch on an unsuccessful conviction?
And I suppose you'll argue that showing the shopkeeper a photograph of the accused just before an identity parade was fair as the shopkeeper had not seen the guy for three years.
The answer is simple - just close the place.
This is not hard or negative, just get out of Iraq, a positive and decent thing to do, stop using warfare as a way of artificially maintaining your economy and get on with dealing with the issue that you have been broke for 20 plus years.
I fail to understand why somebody with such a frail grasp of written English should want to hang around a site of writers and make themselves look down right dense.
" Nothing I say, including the truth means nothing to you"
I mean can you actually make any sense out of that?
Yes, to steal a line from a movie that Gitmo was a part of" You can't handle the truth". It means what is says the truth means nothing to you so you spew what you want. Seems simple to me. Sorry you could not understand it
I tried to read what you wrote here...
.. i could NOT understand it.
"It means what is says the truth means nothing to you so you spew what you want."
...what?
Phew, thanks Evan, I thought it must be me, that nobody on a writers forum could write anything so inpenetrable!
Evan,
I decided to see if you and John were right and I was missing something So I printed out the entire post. I passed it around the office, including the in house attorneys. There is a guy here that is the furthest left Democrat I have ever met. There are far right people as well. Funny, none of them could not understand the meaning of what was written in the article and to my responses. The gentleman on the far left agreed with my responses and could not figure out why you both could not understand. Of course I took a beating for my grammer like you gave me, and a few other small writing errors, but that was legitamate. I am sorry you did not get what was written but thats OK. We have had oppisite opinions on other posts and never had a problem understanding what was written. I even agreed with you on a few things. I will look forward to us supporting our issues in the future
See John.
See John Read.
Read John, Read.
John Read, but couldn't understand.
Nor could Evan.
Oh we understood full well what you meant, you meant that other countries used torture so why shouldn't the US.
It was you claiming to not have meant that, instead trying to put a totally different meaning on it.
by SonQuioey10 10 years ago
President Obama is determined to close Guantanamo Bay. People were angry about it, tweeting he should've been closed it. I tweeted that the President isn't a king here, he can't decree Guantanamo Bay closed etc... He should be able make executive orders without votes but that's not our system....
by Friendlyword 13 years ago
I think they should be tried where the crime occurred. I think we New Yorkers deserve to some kind of justice at long last. We did not get the Towers rebuilt immediately like we should have. The leaders of this City gave Osama Bin Laden his final victory by replacing our Towers with some...
by Readmikenow 7 years ago
How do you feel about the detainee released from Gitmo returning to Mideast to fight for Al Qaeda?Would we be safer with him still in Guantanamo Bay? There have been a number of detainees who have returned to the battlefield to fight for enemies of U.S.
by sandra rinck 14 years ago
Do you think it is a wise move for Obama to close down Guantan?I don't know much about GB but I do know that is where they put all the terrorist they catch, so I was just wondering what they plan to do with them?Where are they gonna go?
by Ralph Schwartz 6 years ago
Another Islamic terror attack in Brussels today - isn't it time to close our borders?Donald Trump has taken heat about closing our borders to Muslims however time and time again Muslims are committing large scale terror attacks - it's time to decide if America wants to stop that bloodshed from...
by Deforest 10 years ago
How come my president is prompter to believe takfiri dogs/criminals versus Assad? Any interests involved? Your opinion. I've noticed that not many people are concerned on the subject. Fear of a potential retaliation from the NSA?Satellites showed the ambassadors that the missiles were shot from the...
Copyright © 2023 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
Copyright © 2023 Maven Media Brands, LLC and respective owners.
As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.
For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy
Show DetailsNecessary | |
---|---|
HubPages Device ID | This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons. |
Login | This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service. |
Google Recaptcha | This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy) |
Akismet | This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Google Analytics | This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Traffic Pixel | This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized. |
Amazon Web Services | This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy) |
Cloudflare | This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Hosted Libraries | Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy) |
Features | |
---|---|
Google Custom Search | This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Maps | Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Charts | This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy) |
Google AdSense Host API | This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Google YouTube | Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Vimeo | Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Paypal | This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Login | You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Maven | This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy) |
Marketing | |
---|---|
Google AdSense | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Google DoubleClick | Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Index Exchange | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Sovrn | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Ads | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
AppNexus | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Openx | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Rubicon Project | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
TripleLift | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Say Media | We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy) |
Remarketing Pixels | We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites. |
Conversion Tracking Pixels | We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service. |
Statistics | |
---|---|
Author Google Analytics | This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy) |
Comscore | ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Tracking Pixel | Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy) |
Clicksco | This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy) |