As an International Relations major in College I am having a difficult time understanding why I have to take science courses such as Biology and more than one social science class. The answer I have been given is to make you a better well rounded student which is the same thing they told me in high school. As the Math and the Science classes are very similar to the ones I took in high school I am starting to feel bamboozled. I believe Colleges make us take all these classes that have nothing to do with ones individual major as a way to suck us dry of the little money we have as college students. Does anyone agree with me or am i just being irrational?
I think you may be someone who see the game for what it is. College is about getting your in debt. When they enacted loans to help you pay for college etc. it was not for ability to get only a better life but a degree of debt on you as well. People make money when you are indebted to them.
I am college educated and I got a degree and a big ass bill for five years of service...lol
looks like it's time for my Ramen speech.
When I was young I decided to go straight to work after high school. I ate mostly ramen for a year, and decided to join the army. when I got out I worked for a tire company, ate more Ramen, and bounced around between jobs, always falling back on that good old top ramen to sustain my life.
After ten years of being a tire jockey, working at places like jiffy lube, seasonal worker at Target, Sears, and various construction companies, I finally got a decent government job as a small worker bee with little hope of upward mobility. Now a days if I see ramen I feel like puking, and yet it still ends up in the kitchen cabinet.
The moral of the story is; poverty sucks, go to school.
I spent almost 7 yrs in college.
Only the first 2 yrs were mandatory study. I had to pass state requirements in science, math and English.
After graduating Jr College, I chose the subjects I wanted related to the major I had picked. I changed majors twice in the next 4+ yres.
I never once thought of college as being a "scam"
In fact, the college library was probably the best classroom on campus.
They were good yrs.
Um, sorry but I think you are being irrational.
I happened to go to a college with few requirements, but those have more requirements really do it for the reason you give.
And the courses they made me do proved some of the most useful in the long run.
All knowledge sold to college students is readily available for free at the local public library.
The only thing you get for your money is a piece of paper stating that you met certain requirements.
The job I have now is not so much because of what I know so much as what I can do. I very much doubt that just reading would have done it. Not everyone needs a college education but it is the most efficient way to enter a great many professions.
I think the key word is FEW requirements. I am not sure where you attend school but I have a lot of classes to take and only 1 semester worth is related to my major. As I will never use biology or algebra or calculus I shouldnt have to take them. If students didnt have to take so many ridiculous classes there would be A LOT less student debt. It's a scam to make money off of us even after we're graduated and trying to have careers.
No it isn't. You have to do the same amount of coursework to get a degree whether the are compulsory or free choice courses--that is set at a Federal and to some extent international level. Ergo they don't make any extra money by having more of the coursework be compulsory.
One of the things you learn at college is how to get the job done even if it isn't fun and games. That doesn't change when you enter the work force so I suggest you either just get on with it, or transfer to a college with more flexible scheduling. Either way, making up conspiracy theories ain't going to do you any good.
Think some of it I understood later does help you. I always hated algebra and math, but what they are stimulating is you to think critically, and no you're not doing math per se, but just discovered that actually it helps you problems solve in life lessons, and cause and effect of many things. Biology and science does have alot to do with our well being. You are energy, biological, and create something every day. I know I didn't like the classes either, but being almost done with my bachelor's degree at this point in being a social worker and spiritual person I see how it is all related. Of course I have decided to not go on further with my master's because of what reality is saying. Why pay someone money when you can learn on the internet, libraries, and open source. I learned my last few text books the last three terms on the internet for free about the world before I even entered the class room. Of course my professors were some times geeked about that, and other times just wanted me to shut up. lol Whose the teacher anyway! And than the students always look at me like what the hell, where is this girl coming from! So You have choices to either pay for school, or learn it on your own. Who knows what is the right way or wrong way. The way the economy is going, and the world, I decided to keep the money in my pocket, instead of giving it away. Even if I just went out and bought the text books, I'd still save lots of money! lol
Yeah, you were the smart one Reality. Have a friend that has been pounding this in myhead. lol Why do I think I need a peice of paper to tell me how smart I am. I learned most of things in life on my own with out going to college, and have my professors spinning around in circles the last three terms because I'm keeping them on their toes! lol One of them said I could teach a class. lol
I am trying to organize an education system in my community that would ask people to teach classes.
A free service that brings the population together to share knowledge. I have taught martial arts for thirty years and get very frustrated with students that have money with no real desire to learn.
I would rather teach eager students for free then be a babysitter for parents with money. I have some carpenters, mechanics and others willing to share their knowledge in the same manner. This is my "goal" in life.
Yeah this is the thing, if we all did open source learning we would be teaching those that really want to better their lives, communities, and cultures. It's not something you have to do, supposed to do, but something you want to do, and love doing!
The College Scam
Higher education isn't worth the cost.
John Stossel | July 7, 2011
College is a scam because we operate under a debt monetary system. As our indebtedness builds, so does the need for increases in wages and benefits.
When businesses have to pay for those continuous increases, they lose leverage on the markets. The price of their products or services have to increase to meet the expenses of running their business. This in turn, forces the business to look for ways to cut costs. First comes cuts in quality of products or services. Next comes cuts in hours and pushing for more productivity out of the workers.
Next comes cuts in wages and/or benefits. If that doesn't do it, then there is always downsizing or outsourcing. When all else fails, then it's relocate to another country, for their cheap labor. Remember that when businesses raise the price for their products or services, then the government has to pay more for those products and services also, and must raise taxes again, or borrow more on your credit card to keep pace.
When this happens, your hard earned money spent to educate yourself in your chosen field, has just gone down the drain. The company you planned on working for has found people that will work for pennies on the dollar. This is all because of our debt monetary system. Don't you just love the federal reserve? Good luck.
This is why I have chosen not to further my education and pursuing further degrees, because I see all the students graduating in every feild in my state not getting jobs in any of the feilds. It is just crazy to continuosly pay for and education that doesn't get you anywhere but debt in the present moment. So many loans are going into default, and upaid, and the government is not happy about it, but when there are no jobs, we can't even pay back the student loans in our country. It is a debt society and we are all in debt because of the system that was set up. Open source learning doesn't create so much debt, but trains people to work.
I don't see that that follows. If a college grad isn't worth the extra money to an employer they would hire a non-grad for less money.
Instead that education is valuable and adds to the worth and cost of the graduate. Is the extra value to the employer worth more than the grad paid for it? Only time will tell for the system; individuals generally find out rather quickly.
Education is important, and does lead to jobs today, but at the same time our society created a system that we all have to pay for our education, while other countries allow their people to get an education free. That just makes me question why we pay so much money for an education while many other systems teach without making a profit off their people.
The difference is how much a student pays versus how much the rest of society pays through taxes--the costs are about the same. I came through on a mainly free system, for which I am very grateful. But it seems this is a thing of the past.
As psyche points that education is not free at all. Other governments simply force taxpayers to pay for someone elses education.
Personally I like our system. It keeps the perpetual student, or those that won't work at the task of learning, out of my wallet. Anyone that truly wants to go to college may do so.
I worked my way through school with no debt. My son, using his GI bill worked full time while going to school full time and supporting 3 children and a wife. It isn't easy (little worthwhile is) but it can be done. It just can't be done while partying every night, driving a new car and wearing Gucci shoes.
This thread started becaise someone is complaining that their college won't *let* them train themselves only in one narrow field.
So you are kind of disagreeing with him, not agreeing. A good college makes you more employable for higher tier jobs, and does not lock you into one career.
A bad college is a college you shouldn't go to. If in doubt, look at their graduate employment and salary data.
I am torn on this subject - I have learned a great deal in college and I feel the experience has been valuable, however most of what I actually use I have taught myself.
I am a web design and graphics communication major and most of what we learn is outdated by the time we finish. I started 3 years ago and a lot of what I learned in college no longer applies. I have actually learned more and built a better portfolio teaching myself the latest things - and that is frustrating to me, but unfortunately it is how technology works lol.
I don't regret college though - if anything going as a "non-traditional" student has taught me that I can do a lot of things I didn't know I could before.
Of course my ex-husband has over 50,000 in college debt and can't get a job in his field since his last layoff. You would think an engineering major could get a decent job - not so much.
This is a bit off topic, But in my English class my teacher was against believing in God and against pro-life and said so very explicitly. I feel it was very inappropriate and told him so.
My lecturers believed all sorts of stuff. So long as they mostly stuck to teaching what the were there to teach, I didn't sweat it. But nothing is worse than being used as a captive audience for some off topic agenda.
Yeah I had an atheist for a teacher, but in my human service degree, I think my professor was like that because he was trying to teach us about being diversified, since in our culture we are always diversified where ever we are in our communities with different races, religions, cultures, ethnic traditions. Maybe just opening us up to not being biased. At the same time him and another professor that are close friends is a pastor. They always use this in our classes to give the example we can live in peace, and agree to disagree. Doesn't mean we have to be at war for not agreeing!
Very interesting forum topic I am one who feels that my college experience was very valuable mostly because of the networks I was able to join and the very fun times that I had. As a journalism major, a good deal of what I have learned is now outdated, though I am fortunate to have found a job - and to have gotten out before college fees in California have increased so dramatically. I am happy to have had a good advisor to guide me through the system.
In one instance, two of my General Education requirements - Philosophy and Economics - were satisfied by two German language courses that I took in high school at a junior college. I didn't quite understand that one, but I went with it because it helped me get through college faster.
I am in grad school now if only for the title, and it is agreed amongst my classmates that the primary benefit of being enrolled in the program is the contacts made with other students and professors.
I would like to thank you all for taking the time to say whats on your mind. With that being said, I will go off into my tangent.
The Benefits of college for the student are: getting away fromt he parents, having fun and networking so that you can get a job. In todays world its who you know and not what you know. College seperates the HAVE's from the HAVE NOT's whether we would like to admit it or not. Regardless to how hard you work if you have a dumb ass who knows the right people you are going to passed on.
As we are a service sector economy I only see this getting worse. People are no longer needed to provide services here in american and when that happens more people are not working and that means less money is being spent which means increase in prices and down sizinfg to ensure companies maintain same level of production with minimal producers.
That means more competition for same job resulting in the employer decreasing wages until they reach minimum wage. We have created a society to where if you did not make it big after the "New Deal" you most likely never will but colleges sell this dream that if you work hard everything will out in the end regardless to the amount of debt and what even makes it worse is there is no guarantee for a job anymore. I say join the military lol.
Ha Ha yes, join the military, I hear their cutting their pay, so they are getting screwed too. We seem to be in this nice no where to go society at the moment, not knowing what direction to take!
Many people don't realize:
To get money a person has to follow rules. You have to take certain classes to get a degree and you need a degree to get a good job.
The bottom line is that we have to do things we don't like to do. We have to take courses that don't appear relevent, we have to pay taxes, we have follow the rules of those who pay us (Employeed people have bosses and self employeed have customers).
I broke a lot of rules and it took a long time for me to realize that I suffered because of the rules I broke. It doesn't mean that all rules have a reason.
.............The bottom line is: To get a college education you need to take classes outside your major. To get a good job, you have to intern and give up your evenings and summers to impress future employers. It seems unfair but you have to jump through hoops to succeed. Unfortunately there are a lot of hoops.
The economy is cyclical and most people view it as bad. If you a person bought a lot of real estate at the peak, their economy is bad. If a person worked for a bank that closed, theif economy is bad. People who are employeed, working hard and debt free right now actually enjoy a better economy than they did 5 years ago.
The service economy will move back to a manufacturing economy. Wages will be globalized and yes they may be low.
The key is: A person who follows the rules of those who pay them will be much further ahead than those who don't.
The point of taking courses outside of your area of speciality is because the point of college is mostly to teach you how to think.
The classes IN your major teach you about your major, in a deep but still pretty much general sort of way. You in no way have any mastery of your field, and often what you learn in college actually impedes your ability to perform in the field for a while because you want to do things "by the book" when, in fact, almost nothing works like it says it does in a book. (I can tell you as an English major and a writer, the rules you learn about grammar that are necessary for good writing are the exact same rules that will prevent your writing from being any good.)
The classes OUTSIDE your major give you perspective on the rest of the world, in which your field necessarily exists. Frankly, understanding how the government works, how finances work, how statistics work, how history went and what trends (political, social, economic, environmental, scientifically) came of that history, how your body works, how the environment functions, how objects in space affect the environment, ... just, everything. If you only take your major, you will be vulnerable to the arguments of anyone who can present a case that seems plausible.
You need the other classes. They teach you alternative ways of dissecting a problem, all of which can be deployed in the pursuit of your major, and many of which you would never pursue on your own because a lot of them come from stuff you just plain aren't interested in.
We may want to check out my Hub about the college bubble:
College is a debt based ponzi scheme similar to that of the housing bubble, only this time you don't even get the house.
I don't usually read hubs linked in forums, but it seemed relevant, so I did.
It is relevant.
I don't agree totally with your conclusions, but your arguments are not without points of validity the way I see it. I commented there, but I will say that, Americans in particular want stuff fast, and they deserve the product they have allowed to flourish with their laziness and denial of the need for personal discipline and accountability.
We don't care what the actual purpose is, we want the outcome.
Food is supposed to nourish our bodies, make us stronger, healthier, etc.
We like how food tastes. So, if McDonalds can serve us up something that tastes awesome, in huge quantities that really, really fill us up, we are fine with the fact that it only barely, on the most minimalistic level, actually serves to nourish us. We like flavor, we like to feel good and feel good fast. So, yeah, McDonalds doesn't deliver any real benefit, but it technically works, and, well, it feels good.
All the zippy colleges and online degrees and super-high priced private "universities" that have "campuses" in every city in the country are just selling the people what they want. "There's a sucker born every minute." And if you think I'm lying, ask yourself this: Do you want a brain surgeon with an online degree from Phoenix that cost $30K in 18 monthos, or the one from John's Hopkins that owes $400k and had to spend 15 years to get his credentials. Was that second guy's college a rip off? Or the first guy's? Who got ponzi schemed?
I agree. There is something about learning just for the sake of learning. I am glad I took a two-year community college course to get a job, but even that included literature and psychology courses. Without them I probably would have not decided to become a writer. I have taken University courses just because I am interested in the topic, not just to get a job. Learning opens your mind to all the possibilities of life...of course you can do it all yourself but how many actually do that?
Not many. And that's the argument people give for why Zippy U is a good deal. They can name someone they met that worked really hard at their insta-degree and that person is awesome at what they do.
That's great. I'm sure they can. But doing the math with something like 60% washing out of those schools (still owing the money) and complaints about the quality of students coming out from employers (in particular medical and dental assistants according to a report that came out early last year I believe), one has to wonder if people even understand the point. It's NOT about getting a job. It's about KNOWING something, which, may be useful to a job. You're not supposed to start with the job as the goal. That's why McDonalds food is so gross. They start with the object of selling something, not making something good to eat that they can then sell. Big difference, subtle distinction.
And yes, learning can totally be done on your own, with no school. I love taking classes, but I like teaching myself too. It goes slower, because nobody is telling me what to watch out for in advance, but, its fun. Been teaching myself how to build websites. I'm horrible at it, but I got one for my new novel that actually works for the most part, except I can't make a Facebook button work. (Today's project lol).
I think Jerry had the best answer to this whole thing. Yes college is a scam. Yes we need college to get a so called good job,and yes the country operates on a debtor system, so they need you to be in debt to make money. Go to school get in debt, and get a job. It's called the theory of evolution. lol
Coolwater, Close, but no cigar. I was just explaining why so many students are paying for a dead horse. I do realize your post was tongue in cheek, LOL I just don't want to confuse some people.
The cost of interest on all corporate indebtedness, has to go into the cost of doing business, which in turn is passed on to the consumer. The increase in costs to the businesses, the consumers and government, makes it necessary to ask higher and higher prices for our products and/or services. This means that our graduating students, with their indebtedness due to the high cost of their education, will be pricing themselves out of the market, just to keep pace with the higher cost of living.
As the cost of living and operating businesses increases, companies will be outsourcing more, and more companies will be moving out of the country. Under this debt system, those businesses have no choice. It's find ways to stay competitive in a global market, or go out of business.
The only real solution is Isolationism, or to get rid of our debt building monetary system.
One more comment, People advocating people being self taught, will not change much, except the cost of that education they are pursuing. The end result will still be the same for the majority. They will still have to get paid enough to keep pace with the cost of living, and likely be victims of outsourcing or companies moving abroad.
That's the thing about college. if you aren't 1) getting something out of it and 2) having fun... well maybe you are doing it wrong....
I think college might be the next bubble to burst.
Me on the phone: "I want to become an ESL teacher"
College advisor: "Ok, that will take you one year: only one class each week... In total, the year will cost you $25,000"
Me: "*hangs up*"
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