I live in Leicester, a multi cultural city in the centre of Leicester. It's a nice city, safe and secure.
Last night 300 kids went on the rampage and smashed shop windows and looted shops. The police sealed the centre of the town to try and confine the damage. Our mayor as well as other community leaders was on the streets- he said that there were children who were under 12 taking part in the riots- where are the parents? was his plea, where are they indeed!
We have good schools and colleges, most of them are brand new with brilliant facilities,a lot of schools are open from 8am to 6pm or later so that children have somewhere to go to. We have parks, we have cinemas, average unemployment,we have reasonable police, why why why?
Oh my god, I know that in Manchester, Liverpool, West Bromich, Birmingham and Leeds it kicked off last night, Our city is Carlisle and the police have called in extra people because they expect our city will follow suit..
I wish it would just stop.
Monkey see, monkey get his (or her) Blackberry out, and organise a copycat riot.
Um... one of their main targets was "poundland"
These kids need a kick up the backside! preferably with a baseball bat! did you know that sales of baseball bats have skyrocketed today? not sure if its the peed parents or the thuggy kids! they didn't say! saw it on the one show 7 o clock!
The fact that it is the "sales" of baseball bats would suggest it isn't the kids who are buying them, because they would just loot them, rather than pay for them. I think it is the adults who are preparing themselves for battle against the youths which now own the streets.
haha pound land they are scabs they should be hitting banks, government buildings. Kids tho it should be the parents who are doing the attacking. the UK is so deprived and unemployment is at a all time low. And its all because of the crazy ass government and war with other countries. Im happy to be brit but im also happy to be living far far away from that s**t hole. I mean what is left there now but fowl kids guns and drugs. not a place for anyone to live. I hate the UK government for making the UK how it is today. debt debt and more debt.
People are angry at our government for almost everything, the recession, unemployment is worse up here in the north of the country, people are sick of broken promises by our PM and so all of this has boiled up and then that poor man got shot by police who have made plenty of mistakes the past two years that its ended up with people from all over and all ages kicking off. But last night I think it was mainly kids using the cover of a riot to commit theft more so in Manchester.
I find it all a a bit odd though. We don't usually see kids running the streets at night. Then all of a sudden we have all these young people on the streets. The first few nights the police did nothing to protect peoples property and then obviously people were outraged at the government. So more police were drafted in, and now this seems to be used by the police as a bargaining tool 'this is why police numbers shouldn't be cut'. I can see it happening in prisons next. Then the argument will be this is why prison officers must have overtime and more staff. I'm beginning to wonder if this has been engineered.
I think it was all down to money why London was not defended. I think the other forces would not send help cos London wouldnt pay. Then Cameron came home and said that it would be paid and suddenly the help arrived. I think the police are as guilty as sin in escalating this riot as they did it to make sure that they got the money, rather than dealing with it and then asking for the money- which would have been less if they had killed it dead on day one...
Heads should roll at the met.......oh they did last month, so is it simply that the B team of leaders are well..@@@@
Now three men in Birmingham have been murdered, because they were trying to stop the rioters. As the government can't seem to decide what to do, and as there aren't enough police to battle every riot in every city, then I believe this will just go on and on. There is one certainty now, as a result of the huge amount of destruction, that Britain will not be able to rebuilt its economy after the recession, because it will now have to rebuilt the cities, which will make economic recovery much slower than other Western countries.
It'll be good if such rioters kill corrupt politicians instead of attacking innocent citizens.
My local shops got his night before last. I had a look yesterday and was amazed at all the smashed shops. What is weird to me is that this is a very nice area, people are friendly and proud of their community, we tend to try to take care of it. We have lovely kids around here, I have had random chats with teens and young adults in the area somewhat often (then again I don't think kids are any different these days to my generation, people used to complain about us as well but most of my friends were all nice kids, I think its probably still the same, most kids being nice kids). What happened was people from else where came here to cause a little mayhem and do a little looting. I am most worried about the people round here who also work around here, a single mom raising her son who works at a local shop. She has it hard enough under normal circumstances, I wouldn't want to work at the local shops now with all this trouble and of course she will be called in to help clean or whatever. For myself, well I have a holiday arranged for a visit to France so wont be around if it carries on this weekend, we are getting out of dodge!
What gets to me is that people aren't getting this upset over lawmakers fiddling expenses, and fraud, police taking backhanders (those charged with upholding the law) and the rest. It says something when the law makers and law enforcers are not law abiding themselves. This situation sucks but the anger from regular people should have been there when all this white collar crime is made public. I would not be at all surprised if the weekend brings more unrest and if this sort of thing sparks off fairly easily again down the road.
It makes little sense why the government isn't doing more. They have ruled out bringing in the army and the police have said no to water cannons. The police are unable to battle so many rioters, and one policeman has admitted that the police are afraid. Now that the riots have spread from London to Birmingham, Nottingham, Liverpool, Gloucester, Manchester, Bristol, Wolverhampton, Salford, West Bromwich and Leicester, it will not stop until serious measures are brought into place by the government. People are looking to the government, but it cannot decide what to do, except for ruling out the use of the army. The problem is that police are being brought in from neighbouring areas to the cities, but as the riots spread to other cities and towns, there will not be enough police to go around. Why can't the government see this, and why will they not take action. Perhaps their concern is for the human rights of the rioters. Even the Foreign Minister of Iran has warned Britain not to take heavy measures against the rioters. So, now Iran thinks it has the right to express its concerns for human rights.
I have just watched the following news item, where some sections of British society think they have the answer to Britain's "broken society."
If the only alternative to rioting, arson and looting is Sharia law, then I think I'll emigrate.
Would the last person to leave Britain please turn out the lights?
Thats if we have any buildings left with electric lights that work, the way they are burning them down and such..
I am already seriously thinking of leaving. Britain already has 10% of its population living abroad, with hundreds of thousands leaving every year, and I hope one day to be one of them.
The way this country is going I think we will most of us leave.
I seen this post before on face book its quite true;
RIP Broken Britain.. You went soft on discipline!.. You went soft on crime.. Parents were told.. 'No you can't smack the kids'....Teachers were prevented from chastising kids in schools.. The police couldn't clip a troublemaker round the ear.. Kids had rights blah blah blah.. Well done Britain..You shall reap what you sow.. We have lost a whole generation!!
I have just watched the news, in which the people who are trying to defend their streets from the rioters have been called vigilantes. Knowing how the law works in the UK, it wouldn't surprise me if anyone found defending their property will be the ones the Law comes down hardest on.
Only when enough people stand up to those idiots, will the problem be mitigated.
Arrest the parents of the thugs and hold them financially and criminally liable should help slow things down a bit.
Not to mention shooting a few of the looters.
On the one hand I feel for those threatened by the lawlessness. On the other, they are partially responsible for what society has allowed.
Just as we in the US are partially responsible for our economic crisis. As long as we stand by and do nothing while the politicians line their pockets at our expense and ignore the wishes of the citizenry we have little right to complain. Only when we stand up and kick them in the ass will we get their attention.
Hope things get better soon in the UK. Too bad you don't have a National Guard to call out.
As much as I agree with you that bad parenting is probably at the root of a lot of the problems, I don't believe in holding parents criminally responsible for their children's actions. (I think it's the thin end of a very nasty wedge to hold someone responsible for the actions of another person.) Unfortunately there are also all too many instances where parents genuinely do their best, but their offspring are influenced more by their peers and by popular culture than what their parents say to them.
We need a better criminal justice system, and harsher laws also parents need more rights etc as well teachers, as for these idiot rioters they want to fight round em up and send them to afghanistan or something like that, then we can bring our boys home.
I just saw one of these parents being interviewed on the news. She ranted and raved, blamed the government for ignoring her little darling, it was everybody else's fault and not him! now I see where they get it from! no wonder the parents never took their children home, they were the ones who probably encouraged it! if this woman was anything to go by! makes me so mad!
I think i must have seen this same person. From Manchester and blaming the riots there because someone was killed in London. Total joke! The problem is these people used to be in the very small minority but now seem to be in the majority, and get away with increasingly bad behaviour.
Its almost as if its a rule for one and a rule for the other in britain at the minute, we have corrupt politicians suddenly explaining criminality.. Then we have people trying to defend their communities and being smeared as vigilantes and now with the death of those three brave and innocent men who were just defending their community.... Its always harder for innocent people with the law because they are the ones who get it worse than the actual criminal. Its so unfair in our Britain.
It is, and to be honest I think it's only gonna get worse. The future is really frightening, particularly when we have Cameron et.al at the helm. I'm worried that these riots are going to trigger more racial violence. It's a worrying time.
These riots are just the thing that will be noticed and talked about, but The UK has been getting eroded for years in terms of standards and behaviour. Everyone hides behind their human rights even when they shouldn't be entitled to any. I really hope the politicians act strongly for a change. Bring in real punishments, real prisons and get a lot more police on the streets in everyday situations, not less!
I quite agree with you there, because none of us want race riots or violence I mean where I live in England (Cumbria) it has been known to be extremely racist. I hope this does not happen.
Did you see a newsclip. One guy was beaten badly and people came to help him to his feet and then 2 or 3 more guys came to his aide as well and took his backpack off and simply stole his stuff. And for the record it is actually not one race engaging in this. Social unrest is imminent with high unemployment.
I did see the news clip and I didn't suggest for one minute it was one race involved in this because I don't beleive it is either. Unfortunately however, certain elements of the press are implying that it is and this is stirring up racial tensions. The EDL lunatics are planning a march in Tower Hamlets, they of course are not known for racial tolerance and this is a particularly tense time. I was suggesting that their are some groups in society who want this to become a racial issue so they can ignite further tension.
That news clip was terrible, I was nearly crying for that poor lad how could people do that to some one who is clearly inured? it is sick!!! It makes you almost ashamed to be british!!!
Just saw the news, loads of them are in court and the 'Human Rights' law has been dropped for this so that people can see the thugs that are doing this. Good. Stealing is one thing, murder is another. I sat yesterday watching the twitter live feed, and believe me when I say, there was more to it than just thuggery! if you want to see whats being said, then just google 'twitter live feed london riots'
I've been on twitter all day and to be honest there's still a large presence of police officers less than 5 minutes away from my house.
All I can hear is police sirens and helicopters
Yes I think they are really going for it today, hopefully it will make all the trouble makers stay indoors. Maybe it will rain, that should frighten away the 'hard boys!' as my mother would have said, 'wash their mouth out with soap and water' well the weather could provide the water....!
The smoke in my neighbourhood from the latest attack was thick today, and the sky is black. And the sound of fire engines and police cars is almost continuous. I feel like I am living in the middle of a civil war.
My mum says that all the time too Nell, I hope that it stops, there is tension here in carlisle I just got told that some youths are gathering in the centre, its too soon to tell whats gonna happen but lets hope they just go home and dont bother.
Manchester is a lovely city where I worked for 5 years, the city's shopping mall were the place where I used to spend most of my spare time in, its very sad seeing these places being damaged and robbed by thugs. I hope these people are brought to justice and I hope Manchester gets back to normal soon. Thanks.
I agree Sasta, I am always down in Manchester, I have family there plus a lot of my friends are there and even they are so shocked at what happened.. These people really need sorted out and given a good shake up as this kind of violence and stupidity is unacceptable....
Three young men were killed by an apparently deliberate hit and run while standing in a group that was watching over and protecting local businesses. Tragic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bi … m-14481061
This proves those involved in the riot are ruthless and careless people. They don't care what happens to others or their country. This riot has nothing to do with politics, its just greedy people who wan't to get things for free and they will get far as killing if nothing is done soon. Police needs to get more tougher, if this was another country I think there would be army on the street. My thoughts are with the young men's family, peace be upon them. Thanks.
Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for though. There is no doubt that here, in Qatar, at the first sign of rioting the civil defence forces would be out in strength and wouldn't be gentle. Heads would be broken, and the rioting would stop. The downside is that when you have a regime with the power to unleash irresistible force at the drop of a hat, you soon find that peaceable protest is also impossible, as witness the vile oppression perpetrated by Bahraini authorities during and since the recent pro-democracy demonstrations there.
The UK riots have been a wake-up call. Clearly something has to be done to minimise the risk of it happening again. But the solution isn't as simple as 'tough policing'.
This is also worrying me. Whilst of course it is important to maintain some order, it appears that the UK will become increasingly militarized. The police have stated that in situations such as the riots we have recently seen here, water cannons will have little effect. They are however, effective when large crowds have gathered, such as during a demonstration.
THIS is what happens in a 2 class system. Haves against have not. So destroy the middle class and I bet Americans will finally get fed up too. If young people have no job prospects and only look forward to living on the streets, you think they will have anything to lose? Right or wrong, people can only be pushed so far before they eventually push back. Lie to ourselves all we wish.
Governments need the swift kick in the backside!
Enough people get angry,as a Sociologist, I know there are not Enough police forces or military to contain a huge angry mob.
You have a good point there Bobbi, our government here in Britain did need a good shake up and unfortunately with the events that have happened they got one. Lets hope that they do sort out the class system and the lack of jobs...
That's true, but you won't get a huge mob forming until things get a lot worse. What we're seeing is the beginning. We're nowhere near the endgame like Egypt and Tunisia, because most people are still not that desperate, yet..
Just watching the news, and seeing police clearly stating that they will come down hard on what they call "vigilantes" who try to defend their streets, shops or homes. Yet during the riots, police were repeatedly witnessed standing by, as looters broke into shops and then set fire to them. One officer admitted to the fact that the police have been frightened by the riots, and that there was little they could do to stop the rioters. Yet, they seem to have enough courage when it comes to threatening decent people who want the right to defend their communities.
Reading American news today, which described how different it would be if these riots had happened in the US, where people would have the right to defend themselves, makes me wish we had such an attitude in England. I am tired of the criminals being told they have human rights, which are considered more important than those of the victims. I wish Britain could be a little braver. Winston Churchill will be spinning in his grave if he knew how timid the British people have become, as a result of governments concerning themselves with the rights of those who would destroy society, whilst denying them to hard-working British subjects, who believe in their community. If this government does not have the courage to fight back, then the riots will become regular events and British society will no longer exist.
Not as we know it, it would become a much more divided nation than it already is. Who, in the long term, would benefit from such a society?
I believe the right to defend ourselves is a necessary one in any civilised society. If the criminals are constantly given the impression that no matter what they do, their human rights will prevent them receiving any punishment considered too severe, then they will of course be free to continue with their life of crime. And who can blame them? In a society someone needs to be the responsible adult. If the police or government cannot or will not take on this role, then ordinary people are left with no other option than to take the law into their own hands. Yet, such people are the ones who have much to fear from the law, which sees the individual's right to defend themselves as going against everything that it means to be British.
If no one is therfore willing to stand up to such thugs, then no one should be surprised if they take over society. And no one will have anyone to blame other than themselves. Having mob rule is hardly likely to produce a united society.
I have wondered about that - given that a riot is promoted on facebook for the following day, American rioters could expected to be greeted with a shotgun blast from small business owners. Yet it isn't happening in Britain.
Any shooter could expect to be charged with murder, but it wouldn't stop them. Is it that different in England?
Yes, it is very different in England. I think because in America, the right to bear arms is considered by many as a very real right. Britain has no history of this kind of thinking. Even the police usually do not carry guns. There have been a few cases, where a householder has been awoken in the middle of the night to be confronted with an armed intruder, and a fight has resulted, in which the intruder has been injured or killed. The householder has been charged and sentenced. There is a real fear of defending yourself in Britain, because the Law will be used to punish those who have done so. This produces a terrible situation, for anyone confronted with an intruder. Whether they should defend themselves and face imprisonment or to let the intruder do whatever they want.
The rights of the criminal seem to be more important than those of the victim. There was a case a few years ago, where a burglar had broken into a house, whilst the owners were out. Whilst coming down the stairs, with his arms full of stolen items, the burglar caught his foot on some torn carpet and fell down the stairs and broke his leg. The burglar decided to sue the householder, and received legal aid to do so. This situation has been the same for years, and no government will even consider changing it.
Stuff and nonsense!
The law allows you to defend yourself, it doesn't allow entrapment and murder.
John, I am thankful that I live in a land where a man's home is still his castle. If a man invades my home to do me harm, in body or in property, it will be my pleasure to kill him as that is what he requested I do through his actions.
I've no intention of arguing with you John. I know how you would enjoy that.
Exactly, and for some reason you seem to think that I am suggesting that people should not have the right to protect themselves or their property. That is not what I'm saying. But, these riots have occurred for many complex reasons, however, during this state of what some might describe as 'terror', society is arguing amongst themselves about who is to blame and how doing away with human rights legislation will solve many of the problems. It won't, it will erode the rights of you and I, not just the rights of the rioters. And, while we continue to have this debate about 'human rights and how the rioters should not have any rights at all, this dreadful coalition Government has created a sneaky distraction from their regressive policies and how the elite are looting us all. I do not by the way, condone any of the violence that has occurred during these riots.
I have just discovered that my local corner shop, a tiny family-run shop has had a petrol bomb attack today. So, not content to destroy the city centre, small suburban businesses are now under attack. These thugs won't be satisfied until every shop, home, police station etc in the country has been destroyed. What a shame we no longer have any colonies we can transport them to.
Whereabouts in this lawless land do you reside?
For the first time in my adult life I DO NOT WANT TO BE IN BRITAIN! I loved and admired that country and its culture but I think you had too much of a good thing. Your democracy and civil rights turned into a rotten oatmeal and now you have it up to your ears! You are swimming in it! If one part of your population go crazy - the other should be able to protect and defend their sanity and their property, and their life. And police should do something right away, not just stay around and watch the destruction and burning. I watched some videos, I was so sick seeing them standing and doing nothing!!! I could not believe my eyes! If they at least have used water they could prevent some fires and scare some idiots destroying towns. 12 year olds rule the nation! May be we should spank them publicly in front of their school mates at school; sorry I forgot, it is against the law nowadays. Viva la democracia - bon voyage!
Three wise men of Gotham
Went to sea in a bowl:
And if the bowl had been stronger
My song would have been longer
An example of how the law stands in Britain regarding the right to defend yourself.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebri … knife.html
http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/hertfords … ng_1_35428
An example of how the press likes to distort.
I understand John, Myleene Klass is a big liar, and the police always tell the truth. I notice Myleene has not withdrawn the statement made my her agent. But I admire your absolute trust in the police and your belief that anyone who is not in the police is a liar. I wish I could have your innocence.
Over a thousand people arrested? That must strain the system.
Oh well, more free food and housing. A socialist utopia.
Financial reality had intruded into socialist utopia and the left didn’t want to face it. Ironic that the birthplace of democracy and the birthplace of Achilles is also the place where democracy’s Achilles’ heel is being exposed. And what is that? Democracy works well until the majority realizes it can vote itself money out of the public treasury. The Greek majority has been doing that in the form of extended vacations, boundless entitlements, cushy jobs with short hours, and early retirement. Spain, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, and other European countries are right behind them - weakening democracies lined in a row and ready to tip over.
http://tommclaughlin.blogspot.com/2010/ … topia.html
You may be surprized to learn that the UK is actually not a socialist country. We have a right wing government. You may also be surprized to learn that we don't have 'free housing' I think perhaps you might be referring to social housing. The tenents of which pay rent.
I hate to correct a subject of Her Britannic Majesty but you have a coalition government that is being run by that majority partner in that coalition - for now.
You are quite correct when you state that we have a coalition Government and you are also quite correct when you state that it is led by a majority partner, that is, the right wing. However, even if the Liberal Democrats had the backbone to oppose any of the decisions taken by the right wing led Government, not in the wildest stretch of the imagination could the Lib Dems be described as Socialists. And, by the way, I'm not a royalist.
@Hollie & UncorrectedVision:
The differences between the three main UK political parties are minuscule, so arguing about "socialist" and "right wing" is fairly pointless.
And AFAICT our government in the UK is marginally more "socialistic" than the one in the US but again, there isn't a lot of difference.
Are there any real royalists left? From an American conservative perspective our own liberal Democrats appear socialist - though more accurately fascist in that the state allows private ownership of business while seeking to direct the economy centrally.
Yes, it appears that many of them reside in the US. The royal wedding was probably a bigger deal in the US than it was in the UK. It becomes a much more interesting debate when we start talking about perspectives and the way in which certain parties appear to us. That's honesty.
I am mystified by American's fascination with an institution that we, at our founding, tossed out with bloodshed and gun smoke. I am not anti-Royal but I think everyone would be better off without any vestige of a ruling class.
My brother's lady friend is an Italian Contessa, she teaches Italian at a university. Seems like trappings not culture to me.
Yes, it's odd. Particularly in relation to the US, who you quite rightly state kicked out the royals, has become some fascinated with them. But, like most other celebs, they are a brand. People buy into that, for some weird reason which I have yet to fathom.
Still right wing and no more socialist than Genghis Khan
Come now Genghis Khan? Couldn't you have said Adam Smith?
Why is that John? The opposite of the American liberal is Adam Smith or Fredric Bastiat, etc....
You will have to enlighten me. I have been reading things by James Dellingpole and things said by or written by British European Parliament member Daniel Hannan - who do they compare? Clue me in John - I would like to have some insight. I will consider the source my socialist friend.
May I engage in a bit of shameless self-promotion and refer you to a hub of mine called Our Political Compass is Wonky?
It will explain the British political landscape fairly succinctly. In my humble opinion
I'm not sure Adam Smith was as far right as the British Conservative party would like him to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as one of the first ? economists, he wrote two? quite conflicting thesis. Other than than this my knowledge of this man is about as limited as my understanding of economics ( a unit a quickly dropped at university) At least I'm honest. I am aware, however, that his mug shot is on our £20 notes.
As an American I know that "...Wealth of Nations" was published the same year as the Declaration of Independence. A good year for Liberty - 1776.
Real economics is contained in the natural world not in the classroom. On need only make clear and honest observations of the natural world to understand basic economic principles.
Very sad situation. I suppose UK is one of the most powerful countries in the world, and yet has been affected by the global economic breakdown and social unrest. I just hope that all these problems will come to end.
All kinds of people are trying to take credit for the sudden social breakdown in the UK. It is a well organised criminal element going on a rampage under cover of apparent anger over the suspicious death of Mark Duggan. Criminal gangs are jumping on the bandwagon by joining the "protest" (read "criminal opportunity to get something for nothing").
Some countries have it worse than what is happening in the UK's economy and job market, yet they have had much less problems. Nothing on the scale of what has happened here. Who are the real masterminds? Every crime has someone behind it.
I worry about the Olympic games and the possible security issues we might face. We will learn from this. I think the Police tactics of Northern Ireland should be brought in to the UK. We are at that marker of social breaking point. And when will they ban the Hoodies from cities and shopping areas? Why is it taking so long?
Does it really matter what category we put any of them in. "At the moment can we trust any of them to organise a bun fight in a bakery". That is the polite version of the old saying.
They are all out of touch with reality.
I feel sorry for the family of the man killed as he tried to put out a fire started in the chaos, and for the families of the three young men, mown down by a car. The father of one of the boys pleading so eloquently for peace and calm won my respect as well as sympathy.
I want our friends in the UK to know our hearts break as social order decays claiming lives and property. All politics aside, I learn so much while speaking with each of you and I value that.
As a royalist, I can quite understand why people are interested in monarchy. There is no other nation on Earth where the majesty of royal events is played out on quite so grand a scale. I mean I cannot think of any nation where the head of state is still seen travelling in a golden coach, with footmen who still wear powdered wigs. As someone who loves history, I think this is a wonderful sight to see. Britain may not have much of a role in the modern world, certainly we no longer have an empire, and even 75% of the laws of the land are now made in Europe, and some have described Britain as behaving almost as if it were another state of the USA, and British foreign policy is very much dependant on American foreign policy. But still, we have our history, the displays of which are what make our nation unique. And the Queen, who at 85 is still working tirelessly for a country she loves, and if she lives to 102 as her mother did, I am sure she will still be working for this country.
I think the cultural aspect of the Royalty should be maintained if that is what Britain's want to represent aspects of their culture. Please never underestimate the value of Britain, Canada, Australia or New Zealand - Americans need reminders that we have cousins around the world. I would also include Scotland and Ireland in my list.
The intellectual and cultural underpinnings of American culture are rooted in the British Isles. The political philosophy of the American Revolution is rooted in Locke, Burke and the Enlightenment( especially the Scottish Enlightenment.)
haha pound land they are scabs, scabs i say. they should be hitting banks, government buildings. Kids tho it should be the parents who are doing the attacking. the UK is so deprived and unemployment is at a all time low. And its all because of the crazy ass government and war with other countries. Im happy to be brit but im also happy to be living far far away from that s**t hole. I mean what is left there now but fowl kids guns and drugs. not a place for anyone to live. I hate the UK government for making the UK how it is today. debt debt and more debt.
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