Is a healthy public school system critical to America's future?

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   kashannkilsonposted 13 years ago

   Are public schools still important? Are charter schools and privatization the future?  Does it even affect the country's role in the world economy?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They're not only important, yes they are critical.  They are a great equalizer and balancer of our society. Privatization will separate and divide; and divisions of that magnitude affect everything, laws, morale, morality, jobs, economy, everything.

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         John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Blimey, it had to happen one day I suppose.
         Something on which we are in agreement.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            
            I'm just as shocked as you are!

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         rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         +
         
         Having worked in both systems, I am in agreement with your thoughts.
         Private schools serve their purpose as do public school systems. Despite the press public school education receives, one can get a decent education in schools across the country. Schools must work together with their communities in order to excel.
         Parents and businesses need to collectively work together. I have seen this in both sectors.
         
         Margaret Wheatley wrote years ago about what we can do to make our schools better.
         She has books on the subject as well. Here is an article about how to bring schools back to life. http://margaretwheatley.com/articles/lifetoschools.html
         
         Schools work on budgets, and it affects everything from the quality of resources to the quality of teachers. Then you get these bozo governors and politicians in Congress who want to slash education funding.

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   Evan G Rogersposted 13 years ago

   Public schools do not need to exist. They serve a function, but are still generally a waste of money.
   
   The private system could do a better job.

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      kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for posting. I'm terribly curious about the draw of privatizing schools, and admittedly, I'm a bit in the dark to the arguments for making that move.
      
      Do you mean that privatizing schools would be cheaper or that the quality of education would be better or both?
      
      I get that with a voucher system, the government cuts checks to private schools and then subsequently doesn't have to worry about paying the day to day costs of X number of buildings, staff, insurance, services, etc
      
      But then don' t the private schools subsequently have to pay for all that and still have black ink on the books at the end of the year?
      
      I guess my question is what do the private schools do more efficiently (cheaper) than public schools?

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      Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      And does a better job.

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         kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         But how? What exactly makes the privatized system better than public schools?

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            Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            To begin with they are not saddled with having to hire incompetent teachers because they happen to belong to a union. They can hire the best and the brightest available. They do not have to teach classes designed to indoctrinate instead of pass along knowledge. They do not have to accept students that have a history of troublesome behavior. The public school system is a mess and will be as long as the intent is to mold young minds into good little democrat cheerleaders.

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               TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Exactly.
               
               Social engeneering.

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      Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Okay Mr Rogers, if public schools don't need to exist, who's going to pay for private schools?

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         Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Those attending, who did you think?

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            kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            So the families would to pay to send their kids to school?

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               Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, that is what is meant by private as opposed to public.

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                  kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I understand the difference between private and public. What I don't understand is why  didn't you send your kids to private school if you are so in favor of it?

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                     Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I wound up doing just that.

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                        kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Fair enough. So it sounds like you found private school offered your kids the best path, and I can certainly respect that.
                        
                        That being said, what about the people who aren't fortunate enough to have the ability to pay tuition and all that? Or the folks that have their kids in a private school and lose their jobs?
                        
                        What happens to those kids if there are no public schools? Do you think there should be any kind of fail-safe for the good kids that want to learn but have families that can't cut the check?

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                           Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Public schools can be good if they did away with the teachers unions, the NEA, and all those things that make them crappy. It doesn't have to be the way that it is.

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                              kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              And I guess that's where my confusion comes from. What happened to the schools?
                              
                              I don't to assume to know your situation, but it sounds like you went to public school, and did well enough for yourself that you could afford to enroll your kids in private school because you thought it was the best thing.
                              
                              I went to public school, and I think I got a pretty good education. I learned and went to college and have remained gainfully employed and started a business and blah blah blah.
                              
                              My father and most of his generation and my grandfather and most of his generation were products of public schools and they were the generations that made this country great!
                              
                              So what went wrong?
                              
                              Where (or when) did the schools go wrong? Is it the unions? Is it the lack of parent involvement? Is it the cookie cutter curriculum? Bad teachers or teachers that don't care?
                              
                              I mean, I can't imagine a person taking a job where they are responsible for a room full of 40 8-year-olds or 50 14-year-olds just to get the summer break.

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                                 Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I did go to public schools, I did not attend college but rather worked my entire life in the construction trades. I do not blame the public schools for me not attending college but I do know how I was treated when I attended school. I was bored at school and never did I encounter a teacher who did more than what they were expected. In some cases I was actually smarter than those teaching me, and believe me I let them know it. Point being I tried in vain 5 times to let the public schools show me they were any better than when I went to school, I was let down every time.
                                 
                                 When I made the decision to send my kids to a private school I sealed my fate of working 17 hour days 7 days a week. My oldest child is a West Point graduate and currently a Captain in the U.S. Army serving another tour in Afghanistan. My second oldest is a University of Texas Graduate with a degree in Engineering, he was a member of the 2005 National Championship Team. He currently is a scout team player for an NFL team.
                                 
                                 One daughter attends Rice University on a full scholarship, my second youngest attends Texas A$M (there is always one who goes astray) and wants to be a vet. My youngest has been accepted into the Naval Academy and I am very proud of all of them, even the Aggie.

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                                    kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Ha!
                                    
                                    I'm here to tell you if the future vet is the one that's "gone astray", even if he is an Aggie, then may we all be so lucky! You did right by your kids and you have my respect.
                                    
                                    And thank the Captain for his service- those folks don't get near enough credit for making the sacrifices they make and I hope he gets back safe and sound and soon!

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                                       Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       She is an Aggie. I appreciate your kind words and will pass them along, Thank you.

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   habeeposted 13 years ago

   Public schools are extremely important! As a retired public high school teacher, I saw the advantages of public education on a daily basis. It's not just about the core classes, either. It's also about all the other opportunities available to kids.
   
   Could public schools be improved? Certainly! But they don't need to be eliminated.

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      kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the response habee. So as someone with experience doing the job, what do you think needs to be improved? What would you change?

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         habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         1. more parental involvement
         2. more student responsibility
         3. more GOOD teachers
         4. get rid of cookie-cutter curriculum
         5. prepare students more for life - not just for college

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            Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            When my youngest child started kindergarten (her last time attending a public school) my wife and I were told that no parents could sit in with their kids. They don't want parent involvement until the child becomes a problem then all they want is permission to drug them.

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            kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I think if we could solve your first point we'd be a long way towards success. When I was in school  parents seemed to be involved- I don't see a lot of that now.
            
            This standardized curriculum is weird to me. I'm not a teacher, but I do a lot of training, and people just don't all learn the same way. Some folks respond better to reading, some to verbal, and some textile. When I was in school, I had teachers that would factor that in to what they taught- I don't see that happening now.

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   TMMasonposted 13 years ago

   Yes they are important and needed.
   
   But we have to get rid of the Teachers Unions, NEA, AAUP, etc... and the Liberal Progressive Secular Humanist agendas that saturate the entire span of education.
   
   Get rid of the Social Engineering agendas and put real education back in place.

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      And get those reds out from under your bed!

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         TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ah you're so funny...

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         Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Do you ever have any thing useful to say?

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            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Frequently, but I find the best response to nonsense is more nonsense.

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               TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               If you do not know or think the schools are used for Social Engineering, then you nothing of the real world, John.
               
               It was your own Socialist kith and kin of the frankfurt School who first laid the theory out and engineered plans for the implimetantion, along with "critical theory" and many other destructive ideas.
               
               http://www.catholicinsight.com/online/f … _882.shtml
               
               Social Engineering has been embraced by the American left since the days of the ejection of thier ilk from hilter's germany. they were taken in by Columbia Univ. and they and thier scheming were injected like a poison into our education system. Since that time they have destroyed this country with their twisted agendas and desires to over-throw this country and our ways.
               
               Like a poison... what else do you expect from any Marxian ideologies or useful idiot followers.
               
               Sad.
               
               But we are taking our education system back, among all other things. Soon we will toss the bums out on thier ears.
               
               Stalin said it best... "America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."
               
               the frankfurt School knew this... and have done all they can to make sure they attack and weaken every one of the 3, plus all else in our society.
               
               Sad.

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   rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

   .. you have taught in the public schools? You are an educator?  You have spent full days, 5 days a week in the classroom with public school children?

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      Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I have been the parent of 5 who went at one time or another through the public school system, I have been through the public school system. One does not have to be an educator (used loosely) to have knowledge about schools.

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         rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I will agree that not all educators are 'educators', (which can be applied to any profession), but your statement is an opinion. If that's what you feel is the purpose of public education, that is what you choose to see, but it's certainly not factual. Maybe it's different in Texas. I know they like to play around with the textbooks to fit their political ideology. Public school children often bring their parents prejudices against educators into the classroom, making the job even more difficult. And then guess who gets blamed?

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            Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Where do you suppose those prejudices stem from? Could it possibly be first hand knowledge? Sadly my daughter in law is a teacher, her politics run way to the left. I think she chose the worst possible profession given her temperament and palpable dislike for children. Her parents are the two biggest influences in her life and they happen to be as dumb as stumps. I hear all the time on forums such as these how Texas is a backwards State with a poor educational system. Have you ever thought about who are being taught in our schools?

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               rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Prejudices are often taught and ingrained into family structures and passed on through generations. It's quite sad that parents are afraid to allow their children to think for themselves and form their own opinions. Parents are not always right. I once remember seeing a grandfather bend down and tell his twin 5 year olds, (as he was dropping them off at the classroom), that Obama was going to take their money. This was on election day 2008. ?? Insane.
               
               Children are not something to mold. They should be taught how to discover and think and ask questions, reason, ponder, assess, on and on. That's a whole discussion in itself and I do have a few hubs about education.
               
               I currently work in a private school and while it's different in some aspects, it's not entirely. Bottom line, private schools are about profit and freedom to choose curriculum and less bureaucracy. It doesn't always guarantee a better educational experience.
               
               ?

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                  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I am asking if you know who a lot of the students are that are being enrolled into Texas schools? Many of them are children of illegal immigrants who do not speak English, many of these kids do not want to learn English or even attend school. They still take the exams that show how well a school is doing and when they fail it reflects on the system as a whole.

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                     rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     ok, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure what you meant.
                     I can understand that, as Florida also has many migrant children. I'm sure it varies with families, but I found the parents of those children extremely interested in their children's education. They wanted them to do well, and the kids were eager to learn. Perhaps what may be lacking is respect. It will go a long way in enabling schools to thrive, when there is respect for all involved, regardless of where children are from.

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                  kashannkilsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Do the private schools take part in the standardized testing that "No Child Left Behind" put in place?

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   MelissaBarrettposted 13 years ago

   Just dropping in to state my normal "If you don't agree with how the public schools are raising your children, feel free to actually raise them yourself"
   
   And, if you don't like what teachers teach, feel free to spend a large chunk of your life and put yourself thousands of dollars in debt to learn how to teach effectively.  Then spend the rest of your life earning pay that is disproportionate to the amount of time you spend doing your job while every parent who feels that you are not doing THEIR job to THEIR liking cops an attitude with you.  And amazingly all the parents are saying different things.

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      Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You are bright and shining example of what I am talking about.

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         MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         A parent who thinks that the responsibility of educating my children is on my head?  Yep, that's me. 
         
         Like I said, if you didn't like the way the school system was raising your children, why on Earth would you continue to put them in such a horrible situation?  You chose to send them.

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            Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You should really catch up, you have fallen behind.

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               MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               All caught up now.  Sorry I can't read posts while typing one. 
               
               Has it occurred to you that the reason the teachers don't want parents "sitting in" is because they are distractions.  A room full of kindergartners and their parents could be in upwards of 60 people.  Good luck teaching with that.
               
               So you sent your kids to private school.  Probably a good choice for you.  So problem solved... what are you complaining about again?

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                  Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I am complaining about the fact public schools suck. I thought that was clear, I can complain because I still pay a tax so those crappy schools can exist even though I do not have any children attending.

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                     MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah, I pay those taxes too.  I like the idea of Unions.  I love the NEA. I'm a homeschooling parent, so my daughter will likewise not be benefiting from a public education.
                     
                     You say they suck, I say they might, but not for the reasons you think. 
                     
                     *shrugs*

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                        Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Then what are your reasons?

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                           MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I don't think there is enough separation of church and state.  I also feel that bullying against minorities (including gays) is unacceptable, but that the religious right has blocked any real efforts to incorporate education on sexism, homophobia, and cultural awareness. 
                           
                           I think teachers have their hands too tied in freedom to truly teach and that the schools are too underfunded to teach effectively.  I think cuts to the fine arts programs are limiting to children who are more inclined to creativity than logical thinking.
                           
                           In my personal case, my daughter is special needs and the funding just doesn't exist to address her needs within the public school setting.
                           
                           The problem isn't with the teachers union or the NEA.

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   habeeposted 13 years ago

   What you guys need to understand is that all public schools, all public school systems, and all public school teachers are "not created equal." From my years of experience, I honestly think public schools represent the best and the worst of education. We have a private school nearby, and when I've received trasfer students from there, these students are behind our public school students about 75% of the time. "Private" doesn't necessarily mean better.
   
   I know that much of the rest of the U.S. considers South GA to be full of ignorant rednecks, but I was always proud of where I taught. It was an ultra-modern school, with outdoor laboratories, livestock, vegetable gardens, flower gardens, and even aquaculture pools. There were special programs and classes for students who wanted to enter the medical field, education, childcare, auto repair, welding, construction, cosmetology, business, farming, animal husbandry, forestry, marketing, veterinary medicine, journalism, the performing arts, and more. We had a good mix of whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and even a few Muslims, and we all got along fine.
   
   We also had (and still have) a great sports program, with football, basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, track, softball, swim team, and even a rodeo team. Many of our students have received college scholarships for sports, and we've had several students go on to play professionally.
   
   Oftentimes, students have a lot more options in public schools than they do in private schools. They also have to learn to get along with those from different socio-economic groups, just as they will in real life.

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