Pakistan and now Syria

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   "Mumbai (Bombay) is struggling with terrorist who came from Pakistan." Pretty quick out of the gate, perhaps even half-cocked.

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years ago

   I dont know why Mark is so interested in supporting terrorists.  (The displacement of people in Bombay and gas tragedy in Bhopal are irrelevant to this topic.) 
   No one requested America to start a war with Pakistan.  The title of this topic itself is "Pakistan and now Syria".  No one required America to come a long way and attack Pakistan and Syria.  They are caught in a war with Iraq on the false advice of British PM Tony Blair.   No one requested them to help to start a war with Pakistan! 
   Who will do so, when they have never succeeded in any war, be it in Vietnam, Afganistan and Iraq.  We will certainly encourage them if they take on terrorism; that is not 'requesting'.  India will never need their help, nor they will help. They have even helped Pakistan against India in 1971 war.   India has never lost a war.   But we want peace only.   Pakistan has developed a whole generation of terrorists whose sole aim is to create trouble in India.  We have no option except to face them.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      2 weeks ago -
      
      
      
      10 days ago -
      
      
      
      2 weeks ago -
      
      
      
      10 days ago -
      
      
      
      All calls for war and the defeat of "terrorists."
      
      Before these attacks in Bombay.
      
      I never said I support terrorism. I do not.
      
      I question the use of the word "terrorist."
      
      And if you do not see that it can be self-inflicted.......

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         VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for playing a consolidation of my previous comments.  Anything wrong in them?  India is struggling with terrorists separately as does America. No wrong in praising their efforts...  Let them succeed. But do not underestimate India.  When I praise US, you think I will keep doing so always.   Praising is not toeing your line.  I have the privilege to differ when your assessment of my country differs.  I dont care for personal comments showered by you.

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            VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            You will not support terrorism. Because you are an atheist / rationalist.
            I do not see "self-inflicted terrorism".  But can see terrorism being named otherwise. 
            You think all those staying in India are Indians.  Terrorists stay here with the help of locals for a long time and plan their game.  If caught, they hide behind religion.  Other "innocent" foreigners like you think it is by natives only.

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               Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I lived in London through years of "terrorist" attacks by the IRA. I lost a friend in the "terrorist," bombings in Birmingham. 
               
               The last time I was in Sri Lanka, a large bomb exploded outside my hotel destroying the train tracks. Set by "terrorists."
               
               I was living in the USA when "terrorists," attacked the twin towers.
               
               "Innocent" is not a word I would use to describe myself.
               
               And all these "terrorists," were and are freedom fighters from their perspective.
               
               You sir, are a liar, and you twist words to suit your own purpose, which is to make war.
               
               You are here to foster hatred and generate sympathy for war.
               
               No other reason.
               
               You are a right-wing war-monger, a hate-monger and a liar.

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                  dingdongposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  But, these terrorists now have killed lot of innocent citizens(apart from police and military people died in fighting) in Mumbai, in India. How can we avoid calling them terrorists? Why should innocent ones get affected in freedom-fighting?

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Why should innocent ones get killed at all? I agree their actions are reprehensible.
                     
                     All I am saying is there are two sides to every story.
                     
                     Who should I blame when a "terrorist," kills my children.
                     
                     The terrorist, or the government that killed his family, "freeing" his country?

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                        dingdongposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        I agree with you on that, terrorists may also have a story and reason, but I think many of them go blindly without knowing the real motive of the ones who operate them from somewhere else.

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           As opposed to the soldiers who go where their political leaders tell them?
                           
                           What I am trying to say is more war and killing is not the answer.

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                              dingdongposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              Agreed

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                  VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  You get 100 % marks in calling names.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Stating facts is not the same as name calling. You have proven all these to be true.

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                        VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        But the later is unnecessary.

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           You really are very, very good at twisting words. I am impressed. You should become a christian.....
                           
                           Good luck with your war. I hope there are many casualties and all the terrorists and their friends and family and acquaintances are horribly mutilated and become a burden to those around them.
                           
                           Not that this would breed another generation of "terrorists."

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                              VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              You are more concerned about the fate of terrorists than those who are affected by it.
                              Terrorists are not mutilated.  Normally they are killed..... as their aim is to kill innocents.
                              A 2-year old Israeli child is left without parents in Mumbai blasts.  How will that child grow? Do you think it will praise terrorists?  A new generation of "terrorists" is certainly growing due to  the terrorist acts.
                              Let it be.  Do christians twist words ?  Happy.

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                                 dingdongposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 May be, not sure. But, I'm sure Mark loves to argue with Christians

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                                    Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    You can bet on that dingdong, Mark certainly does.
                                    
                                    No Christians don't twist words.
                                    
                                    It's terrible to see something like what happened in Mumbai the other day.  But Mark has a point, there's two sides to every story.
                                    
                                    It's best to get to the bottom of an issue before reacting.
                                    
                                    Like for instance, there is an ever growing number of people that realize that bin Laden or al Qaeda had nothing to do with 911.  But it spawned two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that are on going with thousands of casualties.
                                    
                                    Mike

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                                       VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                       "No christians dont twist words" means christians twist words....
                                       Two side theory: there are two sides to the story of thieves also.
                                       When a great tragedy is going on, no one will sit in a corner and think of the other side of the story.  They will only retaliate.
                                       If we go to the bottom of the issue, criminals get to the top and escape. Immediate response is done in all the cases in all the countries.  India is the only country hesitating to react suitably... one day they will.
                                       9/11 and Bin laden:  By passage of time, our sharpness blunts and criminals escape.  Intelligence sources will have the proof and that is why they are hunting him.

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      dingdongposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Venu, Do you really remember that I told you are great in twisting someone's words..?

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         VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         What is in this?
         He agreed his disagreement with the attacks, for which he needs praise. 
         For his remarks somewhere, I asked why he supported terrorists?
         I can be called twisting if I said otherwise for the same comments. 
         Each comment needs separate reading.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Please quote me saying I support terrorists. I have never said this.
            
            You, Mr. SIVAGNA, are a liar.
            
            But that is all I expect from war-mongers such as you. You will lie to achieve your goals.

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            dingdongposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            That doesn't mean I'm against you, the same thing happened when you were accusing me as anti-tamil. I just say you should me more careful in understanding others words

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   http://ibnlive.in.com/news/let-terroris … om=rssfeed

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years ago

   I think we will have to start a war with Mark Knowls to stop his criticism and tirade against India.... because we are "war-mongers"  as he wishes ..... and he is "mischief monger".  Mischief has to be dealt with first and then only terrorists !

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I said nothing against India.
      
      Only you
      
      And there is  a queue

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         VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         You wont come in singles...?  even for petty things...?  Then what is courage?

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            VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Your queue went to Palestine eight times to Palestine to retrieve Jerusalem and they never succeeded.  Your fate!

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         VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I have no personal enemity with Mark. Outside this HP, I treat him as a friend.
         He need not go personal. 
         Marks' thinkings will drive out religious fanaticism. Let him attend atheism  properly.

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   I think it's a little early to be blaming a neighbor country that also has nuclear weapons.  Besides it's groups in those countries, not the whole country.  It could even be another false flag operation as far as that goes.

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      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Having nuclear weapons does not provide privilege to conduct terrorist operations.  It is not too early. They have been tracked. One year ago, they conducted a dry run for this operation. Since then, they are being tracked.  29 Pak. nationals, and 11 Bangladesh nationals seems to have conducted this attack.  Someone in the garb of cooking assistant in the same hotel for 9 months !   Without confirmation, Indian govt. never reveal anything. Our "possibility theory" should not make terrorists hide themselves.

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   Venu this site http://ibnlive.in.com/news/terror-nonst … -3-p2.html says "Media reports said a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen had claimed responsibility for the attacks in e-mails to several media outlets."  Another page on ibnlive that I read this afternoon said a Mauritius passport was found on one of the dead terrorists.  But some say it was the Lashkar-e-Taiba or an al-Qaeda affiliated group.  The bottom line Venu, it was a group that did it, not a country.

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      dingdongposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think you are right, perhaps the PAK govt. is cleverly pretending to be innocent of such groups and the fact that those groups train the terrorists(regardless of their citizenship) and send them to create troubles in India..

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      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. There were Mauritius passports with them; also US dollars. That does not matter. Immediately on reaching Taj, they shouted all foreigners to get away.  They seem to have aimed the Israelis particularly. The Wasabi portion of Taj and Nariman House, where Israelis normally live were attacked. We can blame a group or blame those who sent them.

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   Well the criminals didn't escape.  What needs to be done next should be considered cautiously.  Don't be such a war monger Venu.  I'd hate to see someone with your anger have access to the nuclear button.
   
   Special deal just for you Venu, Loose Change.

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      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Dear MM, the anger is not mine.  It is the anger of the affected people, ie., Indians.  Normally Indians think thousand times beforfe acting. Once decided, our proceedings  will be a short one.  That will end all miseries.  I humbly request foreigners not to encourage terrorists citing 2-side theories and nuclear theory.  All religious gods have taught patience and forgiveness.  But our Hindu gods are for confirmed punishment for committed sins.   That does not mean war-mongering and all that.  Awakening a sleeping giant.... that is all.
       
      Mr. Mike, have you seen on screen, a Mumbai woman swearing death to any politician who comes to Mumbai?  They (Mumbai people) are so enraged and angry that nothing short of  cleansing terrorism will bring peace.
      
      Thanks for your "loose change".  I have already seen it.
      The best example for 2-sides theory may be the Pearl Harbour and Hiroshima-Nagasaki.  Nothing else will suit that theory.

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years ago

   Another example for "2 sides theory" may be prisoners' abuse in Guantanamo prison and beheading of diplomats by Iraq terrorists.
   
   How can the terrorists be subdued ?   17 Indians were hostages were held by Iraqi terrorists in 2001.  All the hostages belonged to a village in Haryana state in India. The whole village watched the happenings impatiently. Then it is said they planned to stage violence.  Then only the terrorists gave in and released the hostages with a copy of Koran to each hostage.
   
   In Mumbai bombings also, the terrorists sailed from Karachi. In the mid-sea, they hijacked a trawler with 5 Indians on board. 4 Indians were immediately beheaded and thrown into the sea. With the one Indian,  they entered Indian waters. Then they beheaded him also and landed near the gateway of India.  All patience have gone for Indians., who are the most affected by terrorism and living amidst terrorist sponsoring countries.

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   I thought this was an interesting commentary:
   http://www.torontosun.com/comment/colum … 6-sun.html

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    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years ago

    Mr.Knowls,  I read the comments in Torontosun. Happy to know that the other side of the world is so much concerned about us.
    In Mumbai blasts, the death toll in Victoria Terminus Railway station bombings also, which occurred simultaneously. It will cross 200.
    Kashmir problem is from 1947.  Pakistan's involvement is very much true.
    RSS did not attack Christians. It was the local tribals unable to bear mental torture by missioneries in Orissa. The Bangalore Court has awarded death sentence to Church attackers a few days ago.
    There is no secessionist demand from South, from where I live. Small pockets in the east which cannot sustain independent existence demand freedom out of encouragement from border countries.
    Naxalite-Marxists are very much Indians.
    Obama cannot solve Kashmir problem. He may remain friend of India and free world.
    Indian muslims are not passive and avoid violence. Their hand in recent bombings in Bangalore, Ahmedabad and Delhi is proved.

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       fun2hubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Surely the world knows

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    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years ago

    Pakistan's Mumbai-mayhem:
    One terrorist, who went on shooting spree in Mumbai on 26-11-2008 was caught alive. His native place has been established, and his father has accepted his identity. Pakistan Govt. denies that he is a Pakistani.  The former Pak. PM Nawas Shariff one day acknowledged his identity and next day, he asked for proof. For other terrorists who are wanted by India, Pakistan asks for more proof.. Proof to hide the terrorists in safe places ?  The whole world is watching these childish behaviour of Pakistani authorities.
    
    Pakistan has deployed troops on line of control in all border areas; their air planes conduct test flights over their cities; a war hysteria has been created. 
    
    In 1971, the then Indian Army Chief, Gen.Manekshaw called on the Pak troops in Bangladesh for surrender like this:  "There is no disgrace in laying down arms to a soldier.... I hope you will not compel me to reduce your garrison with use of force."  These words should be taken into account by the present day military top brass in Pakistan and desist from misadventure..

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    anwardostiposted 13 years ago

    Americans are trying to destroy pak

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