I, being a political junkie listen regularly to the right wing nut talkin heads, and it is really amazing to me that any mention of the subsidies, tax breaks,loopholes that benefit the rich is immediately labeled as "Class warfare" And makes them start weeping and crying because of the unfairness of the attack on the people who make our country great, the few, the proud, the ultra rich.Meanwhile any attempt to limit or diminish any kind of benefit that is directed to the poor, the working man or the disabled is met with a standing O on their part and seen as fiscal responsibility.Isn't that strange?
You just explained class warfare and seem to be completely unaware of it. You have learned your lessons well, you just don't know why. Perfect liberal.
It's a framing issue. The right knows it cannot defend such policies directly, so they talk in other terms, such as "class warfare" and "job creators." That way, when a liberal tries to argue against subsidies to an oil company, or giant tax breaks for billionaires, they immediately are engaged in "class warfare" and going after the "job creators."
Most people are in favor of raising taxes on the rich, and also ending subsidies to oil companies. The right completely ignores them, and the left gives them lip service.
Oil companies do not get subsidies they get the same tax breaks as all other businesses get. The bottom 50% of wage earners get subsidized.
Why should they be subsidized? Here is a unique idea, instead of crying because you have nothing try and get something. I don't believe financial equality is a constitutional right.
you are a perfect example of what's wrong with the republican party you think it.s perfectly fine to give tax breaks for the wealthy but it'sterribly wrong to help the needy.
The bottom 50% are not all needy! Whats wrong is that people like you don't seem to understand that it isn't my responsibility to support others. We should be seeking ways to create jobs for people instead of punishing those who have because it makes your kind feel good. Punitive taxes on the producers result in less production.
Who said Mio Cid had nothing? I know this might be an alien concept to you, Repariguy, but some of us are bright enough to recognise that are many factors which might make an individual poor. And those of us that are fortunate enough to make ends meet and not have to worry about where the next meal is coming from, can actually empathise with those who struggle. Otherwise known as compassion.
Are you going to cry for the earl companies? Let me whip out the world's smallest violin for you and the earl companies.
LOL. Using some kind of right wing source that makes ridiculous assertions helps you not one iota.
Here, from the WALL-STREET JOURNAL, owned by the same man who owns Fox News. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 54412.html
"The bill would have affected subsidies paid to BP BP -1.20% PLC, Exxon Mobil Corp., XOM +0.02% Royal Dutch Shell RDSB.LN +0.89% PLC, Chevron Corp. CVX +0.01% and ConocoPhillips COP -0.01% ."
The Board of Directors for this National Taxpayers Union has some interesting characters on it: David Stanley, Steve Forbes, J. Kenneth Blackwell, and J. Patrick Rooney.
Grover Norquist, the man who has made tax cutting into a religion, was the director of the organization until Reagan pulled him away to head "Americans for Tax Reform."
Sorry if my source bothers you, the truth usually drives you libs up the wall.
The rich are entirely aware of where their interests lie and pursue them vigorously. Most of the population think interests are stuff like TV sport, crocheting or porn.
Here's why. It really should be called class envy warfare.
See that guy over there? he's got more than you do. Now doesn't that just eat you up? Is that fair? Doesn't matter how or why he got it it just isn'r right now is it? You know what? i think we should just take it from him. That's it just take it all away and then give it to everyone else.
Now what we will do when the rich are the poor and the poor are the rich is anyone's guess right?
See that guy over there? He lives like a king. See his workers who make him rich? They are paid just enough to survive, with a little bit of luxury to keep them quiet.
Also, see that kid who only gets one or two meals a day, and one of those is from the public school system. See that kid who grows up in a poor environment, and whose teachers don't care about him. They just want to pass him through the system.
If wanting to eat and be free from continual financial stress is class envy, then yeah most people, especially in places like the Congo, are very much involved in class envy.
As I think I have said before....I live in America but if I have a way of making a living that;s good and I do well I am an evil evil man.
All that crap you just spouted of course happens in every situation does it not. That would mean from the corporate LEFT as well as the corporate right.
And here come the starving in the Congo.
Are you old enough to remember Live Aid?
It is a weapon made to cause class envy. But only against the right. Have we ever noticed that. It makes it so you say squat in a basket about Warren Buffet or GE but scream about all else. Grow up and get over yourself.
Oh I seem to have struck a nerve. Good. Nerves need to be struck.
Two other points. First of all, using personal attacks and telling me to grow up does nothing but make you look petty.
Second of all, what I said applies to GE and Warren Buffet. But Warren Buffet has openly said his taxes should be raised. Has the CEO of Wal-Mart or ExxonMobil said such a thing? No. They want their taxes cut.
It's not class warfare it's simply class awareness, we all know that the vast majority of the wealth of our country is concentrated on some very rich individuals, and they and their lackeys will do anything to tell us that they deserve that money but we all know that the majority of them are not self made men they are products of inheritance and those who are self made are usually products of amazing luck, so due to the fortune of their birth or more rarely because they got lucky they live in wealth and luxury beyond imagining while just a few miles away from them people struggle to feed and clothe their kids while people lose their homes because of the economic crisis they had no hand in creating and yet those who did continue to live in luxury and yet when Bill Gates has more than 20 houses it is madness and warfare to suggest that some of them should be used to house the homeless instead of simply holding some of his wealth, when the rich entertain themselves with collections of Ferrari, Porsche and Jaguar sports cars in fleets it's crazy to suggest that maybe it's more important that our people can eat than that you have a different car for every day of the month? The only madness is to suggest otherwise, of course the Buffet Tax does not go nearly far enough.
They do deserve their own money and you don't! Makes no difference how they got it it is theirs and not yours.
What, even if they got it by theft!
Obviously not if you can prove theft. So, can you?
Well what I get out of this is that obviously it does matter how they got it, you just think the methods they got it are OK and I don't, just like we both agree that it matters if they got it by theft. Not speaking for John here he might well have a different interpretation.
If they got it legally then I approve.
Even if you thought the law was wrong? Even if say they made their money through a legal slave trade or by selling arms to people intent on genocide as long as it's legal it's fine with you?
I would be depending on your word that it happened, do you have any proof their money was gained through illegal means?
I am sure I could find proof that some of them made their money through illegal means but I am not talking about that at all. What I asked and I ask again since you did not answer is if the law allowed ways to make money legally that you believed were morally repugnant such as slavery or aiding genocide would you still be ok with people keeping the proceeds of it?
I don't do well with hypothetical questions.
Should I? If I asked if you still beat your wife could that lead someone to believe its truth simply because I asked?
That is not a hypothetical question. Also yes hypothetical questions are a great method of illustration.
No it isn't hypothetical but it does the same thing as your question, it implies falsely that you do something of a criminal nature. Which of course is your goal in the first place.
I guarantee it was not at all the point, what I was attempting to demonstrate was that I don't agree with the laws we have on some of the ways it is legal to make money, so I was wondering if you would feel the same way if you disagreed very strongly with the ways the people made money even if they were legal?
I find abortion repugnant but I don't whine because the Dr performs them to pay for his jaguar.
Well there is my answer, you don't care about how people make their money as long as the current legal system says it's OK, I disagree.
See, we agree abortion is wrong, by the way
Isn't It Ironic?
The food stamp program, part of the Department of Agriculture, is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of food stamps ever.
Meanwhile, the Park Service, also part of the Department of Agriculture, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals" because the animals may grow dependent and not learn to take care of themselves.
Well obviously, because you believe we should treat human beings like animals.
PS. I am on the fence about abortion, not sure about that one, my area is more economics than social politics, I just believe in equality as far that goes.
It may surprise you but in my perfect world (concerning politics) there would be no food stamps or unemployment benefits except for those who cannot work due to illness or injury. Of course my ideal political landscape would have the government guarantee every man a job if he wants one, unfortunately in the U.S. we have many more people than jobs and fewer jobs being created than people entering the workforce because the private sector is failing and not doing it's job in economic terms so food stamps are unfortunate necessity unless you are willing to have people starving to death on our streets, I am not.
Odd that you don't find animals equal to humans, goes against that whole leftist thing you claim to embrace.
Do you believe in every single thing that the stereotypical conservative believes? It sort of implies herd mentality if you do, I don't really care about animals rights when there are 25 000 people starving to death daily, just quietly I used to be a soldier and I am still an avid recreational hunter, how's that for stereotypes?
25,000 starving to death everyday? Where is this happening? You are a typical liberal all stats and no proof.
I was wrong, it's actually a lot more than 25 000 a day, it's 18 000 children a day so actually it's a lot more people when you count non children.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007 … nger_x.htm
PS. I am not, repeat not a liberal.
Your talking worldwide, like I said typical liberal, you can't no matter what you think solve the worlds problems. But you could put those hunting skills to good use and kill as many deer as you can and feed some a little closer to you! I do it during deer season and all year with wild hogs. But as a typical liberal you'll just wring your hands and shed crocodile tears for the hungry children. Kudos on the military thing.
P.S. You are a liberal, its ok to admit it.
P.S.S. I'm just giving you a hard time, you're alright for a liberal.
I did not shed tears or anything of the sort, all i was saying was that I might start caring about animal rights after human rights are guaranteed here and overseas. As for the international thing I am also a citizen of Argentina, so I do my part there politically, of course they are already socialist and doing very well, and of course when we make a big kill or two it's too much for the freezer so everybody in the neighborhood gets some particularly those a bit short.
Look this may not go down well but I am not a liberal I am bona fide horns out of my head socialist, have been for over forty years fought in a militia and everything, probably lost my good man accreditation but thanks anyway I was not meaning to self promote.
As for the worlds problems well, according to the UN and world bank the world produces enough transportable food to feed the whole worlds population more than comfortably.
Why do you suppose the private sector is failing? Wouldn't have anything to do with the government would it?
The rest of us do deserve our own money and you don't. Makes no difference how we got it, it's ours and no yours.
Here's the way it's supposed to be:
1. It's our money, not theirs.
2. They work for us not the other way round.
Glad Barney Frank is leaving because he had no concept of either of those realities.
I'm not asking for yours, see the difference? Doubt you do.
I know you're not. Think austerity measures, see the difference? Doubt you do.
I am pretty sure it is not their own money and even if it is I think it makes a considerable difference how they got it, I think we should know just how they got it ! Also our money is obviously ours so why say we don't deserve it ?????????????
But the whole capitalist system is based on the idea that all money belongs to the heads and everybody else has just stolen it off them!
Who are you to decide what Bill and Melinda Gates do with their money? I'm no fan of either of them but they donate more each year to charity then most people in this world. Who decides what portion of their income is "enough"? Is it the government? Well that's subjective. Who decides what portion of your income is enough? You're walking a fine line. Forcably taking the fruits of one's labor to benefit another is the definition of slavery.
The people decide how much of my money is enough, through their vote and by taxation and I gladly give it, and I would never want a tax or redistribution program instituted that did not have democratic support from the people. Of course the Buffet tax has about 73% support. So my reply is the people decide now and the people will decide in the future, I firmly believe in democracy, I also firmly believe in redistribution and I hope one day so will most people as they have in many other countries.
So you believe in taking what does not belong to you and what you didn't earn. But if the people decide not to take any money to redistribute you'd be ok with that too?
It's a matter of opinion, I have an opinion and a right to vote within a democracy so I believe that redistribution is a just an economically sound policy, I base than on my economic knowledge and on studying places where this was done so I would vote for that and I hope others would too, the fact that others have not yet is of course disappointing, most people would like their views to receive a favorable vote but I would not take up arms to make it happen or anything unless the majority of people believed in it. Personally I wouldn't be getting any money, they would be taking some of mine and I don't believe that people in our current system really earn what they have.
Well Josak, as someone with economics degrees as well as other's, I know from experience as does the rest of the world Keynesian economic policies do not work. Neither do Marx's or Engle's theories in the long run without forced participation. Even then they are not sustainable. The central flaw with your postion is the government is better at making decisions than the citizens. That is not always true. Name me one place where these policies actually work in the long-term without forced participation and without an overall reduction on productivity.
To live your dream of wealth redistribution, you don't need government intervention. No one is stopping you from donating 100% of your income and assets to charity. No one is stopping you from finding a small commune or kubbutz and living there but you don't.
On a personal note, it's funny people need to attempt to validate themselves by constantly giving people their resume. Notice I didn't flaunt my education even though I am highly educated. Most people who do this are insecure and need to justify themselves with a qualification in an attempt to make themselves feel superior to others. I based my position on fact. The mere attainment of a degree does not in itself demonstrate learning. There are plenty of highly educated people in this world that lack common sense. It is the application of what you learn in the real world that demonstrates knowledge.
But Keynesian policies do work. Look at the countries that were the quickest to recover from WWII, all done on Keynesian policies.
Charity fails miserably as a means of either wealth redistribution or even as a means of providing aid. Apart from anything else it humiliates the recipient.
I'm as thick as two short planks, no degrees in anything, so there!
Quick recovery? We paid for it. You are welcome.
You talk macro systems and charity. I talk community development. If you don't know the difference, I will be glad to teach you. There are rich people who support organized efforts, not hand outs. They help poor folks like me get the job done. I need them and so do you.
You are wasting time and energy. Wake up and get it right!
Oh yes, you paid for everything didn't you? Only after you'd charged everybody though.
Well go on then what is the difference between charity and community development?
How do rich people actually help without giving charity? Do they get out the paint brushes and shovels?
Read up on the Marshall plan.
This little get together was put on by the Brevard Neighborhood Development Committee, the Booker T. Washington Neighborhood Development Committee, and the Melbourne housing Authority. It is the spearhead of a movement to build a community center with an after school program for all ages, and eventually vocational training and business start ups.
Let's just have a picnic, do some art, sing along with the band and get to know each other. We will paint a mural of the winner's design next week.
I was commissioned to paint this. Rascals bugging me on the African American History mural I did with older "apprentices". (Note easy to paint solid shapes)
Demetrius posing in front of the mural he designed for the local newspaper. It was painted by all of those kids.
The community center is built. The programs are started. We have come into relationship with each other. I will not list all of the donors. Suffice it to say that there was no government money at all. Some of the most tireless and effective workers have proven to be rich housewives. They feel blessed to be able to contribute so much time, effort and money. We are blessed to know them.
As we grow in relationship, so does our power as a region. On this level, it is non-partisan. We are organized for other causes, like conservation of our resources, and we have been accomplishing much in the political arena.
You ask if the rich people pick up a paint brush? Try to stop them.
I am an activist, not a bleep on the internet with the Doppler Effect instead of a personality.
What's that? I thought I heard a pinging sound.
I have read up on the Marshall Plan, we paid back our share in the last decade!
I'm sorry for being so negative about your efforts.
WD Curry 111,
Great job on building the community center. What a wonderful program. You should be proud, you brought people together and took action. This is what happens when people stop waiting for a government hand out and start taking action. Kudo's.
Of course if the government worked properly and fairly there would be no need for a government handout, such facilities would be built as a matter of course and not left up to the lottery of chance.
Are you 'aving a larf ? ? Your intro is all about your economics degree(S) and others .. I see you are highly educated ---even though you didn't flaunt it !
I only brought up my education in response to Josak trying to use his as a reason to hold himself out there some sort of economic expert. Otherwise, I wouldn't have brought it up. I'm not sure who or what "aving a larf is. I'm new to Hubpages. All I'm trying to do point out the flaws in Jasak's arguments.
Ok, well I'll pose the same question to you. Name one place where redistribution has worked without forced participation and a negative impact on productivity as a whole.
Lots of places, depending on how you ask the question. You appear to be entirely stuck in the notion that redistribution only occurs when the wealthy give to the economically deprived, however, you neglect to discuss redistribution when wealth is passed from the economically deprived to the privileged and wealthy amongst us. Ask yourself this, when the scenario you discuss is reversed, where has it worked?
Redistribution has worked here in the US it's called the new deal and is what made america great ,progressive taxation which we have and have had in the US for many decades is redistribution of wealth and one of the reasons why the US economy has been the strongest economy for so long is because it has had historically the strongest and biggest middle class in the world.
Julianne, My intention was never to brag about my education, it's just it was implied I was uneducated by one of your right wing friends who was being very rude at the time (he later turned out to be all right guy) I felt it was an accusation I should defend because it was relevant to the topic.
I hardly think it's surprising we disagree, of course I can provide you with examples of functioning Keynesian and Socialist thought I would invite you to look at Norway, Finland and Switzerland and their social democratic movement, more controversially I could telly you to have a look a the economic success of Venezuela, Cuba and more recently Argentina. I am also wondering what evidence you have of the reverse that free market capitalism gets results, would you like to go with the US example with the collapsing economy rampant unemployment and exponentially rising poverty rate or the Hong Kong example with the massive poverty rate, wholly inadequate wages for survival and it's flocks of people attempting to leave it to go back to mainland China?
I would remind you of the difference between Socialism and Marxism but I know I would be wasting my breath on you, suffice to say Socialist ideology was solidifying about a hundred years before Marx was born.
You're not serious pointing to Venezuela, Cuba and Argentina as economic success stories are you? Norway, Finland and Switzerland while they are more socialistic then the United States are also capitalistic enough to export their natural resources which is the main reason why their economies have not collapsed.
I point to Cuba, Venezuela and Argentina as examples of economic success for developing nations, if you are an economist as you say you should know that growth measurement analysis and currents trends are the important factors in examination of economic expansion so yes all those are growing and improving economies and absolutely success stories. The other nations I mention are indeed more socialist and their economies are more successful than American ones and their quality of life is much higher.
First off the Buffet rule was a joke because Buffet himself didn't pay his taxes and I have no idea why anyone believes if you increase his tax rate taht will make him pay. He isn't going to pay because he does not believe he should have to. He believes the rest of us should but not him.
Secondly why should I want everyone else deciding what I should make? Or rather keep?
Buffet has no real relation to the Buffet tax, again I am not a fan of Buffet, his actions don't really have any bearing on whether this tax is a good idea or not.
Furthermore people already decide what you get to keep, it's called taxation, it is central to the idea of a Republic, this motion is about whether that tax should be raised for some people, I doubt you fit into the 1 million a year + bracket anyway.
That's not the same as what you were talking about. I know taxation. That and people getting to decide en masse who keeps what are two different things. Now you start to get into the people visiting your home to see what you have type of deal.
You were talking about the Buffet Rule, that is a tax, you said you opposed it because someone got to decide how much you keep, that is just what taxation does, redistribution is a different issue. Besides you do not fit into the 1 million + bracket.
When the left comes out with slogans like "die yuppy scum", "Eat the rich", "no war but the class war", "They only call it class war when we fight back", etc,
people tend to think that that's what it is.
No class warfare here. LOL!
Was it like this in your country of origin, under a controlling power, by keeping the masses poor and uneducated. America was once all about building the perfect human race thru education and economics to keep up with the cold war race. Now America is about a controlling power breaking down the middle class. They call them republicans.
The right operates in the same way the world over, but my country today has a socialist government elected by the people in free elections , it has been governing for two consecutive terms and I hope they keep governing well so they are reelected again but if they don't, they will lose the election and another party will be governing, as it should be.There is a song by Tabare Etcheverry an Uruguayan that says It wasn't the murderers it was us who let them die for being there so few of us. If the right is empowered it is our fault because we are not working politically hard enough to win elections.there are more of us than there are of them, but we don't vote in enough numbers.
Class warfare is what the elitist right has declared on the middle and poor classes. The class warfare has been orchestrated by the Koch brothers, who have harbored favor with the likes of Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Chris Christie, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Paul Ryan and on and on the list of bought and sold politicians goes. Trickle down economics have accomplished one thing. The rich got richer and the rest of us were simply covered in a golden shower. That is the real class warfare being waged in this country.
Are you implying they're peeing on your leg and telling you it's raining?
I sure am and that isn't all that is getting dumped on us either.
Obama has dumped a mountain of debt on you, does that bother you?
Thank you Reagan. You created a new religion that just won't die!
"Supreme Court says corps are people, so will Wal-Mart get 10 yrs in prison for illegal bribes, and News Corp 25 yrs for illegal hacking?"
Because if the rich are going to be involved in warfare, it's got to be a classy war. If you don't have a jacket and tie...we've got one you can wear!
I am fascinated with the concept of the left and their inability to carry on a conversation about facts.
Obama's Income 2010: $6 million+
Obama's Income 2011: Less than $1 million
In order to get away with NOT PAYING TAXES, Obama (one percenter) sheltered his income.
The left wants to attack the GOP, but fail to recognize that they have been played. Obama claims that he wants to tax the rich, but the fact is that would affect his income - so he is NOT GOING TO RAISE TAXES ON THE WEALTHY.
HE IS NOT GOING TO RAISE CORPORATE TAXES.
HE IS NOT GOING TO CANCEL THE BUSH TAX CUTS.
WHY? Because he benefits and so do his rich friends.
Crony Capitalism. You gotta love it.
This just proves he wasn't really an economic liberal after all. He is simply a social one (partially). Americans are still being spied on; the wars abroad are still being waged; and like you pointed out, it doesn't seem likely the tax cuts for the rich will be repealed.
So vote for Obama in the hope that he may change, or for Romney who is already admitting to a tax plan similar to Dubyas.
Screwed either way .
That's because facts don't matter to the left. It's feelings and intentions that matter to them. It's easier for them to manipulate someone's feelings then actually deal with the root cause of a situation. It's easier for them to tell the someone who is poor that it is because of the "evil rich" then it is to look at the actual reason behind that person's socioeconomic status. It's all a fallacy, as long as they have their boogy man, they have power. If they actually solved a problem, their power base disappears.
This is a thinking person, too bad Josak will nullify this persons vote.
Oh as a leftist I realize Obama is far from great, he is a politician in our current screwed up political landscape what am I to expect? As a leftist I am happy to say screw Obama, unfortunately he is the lesser of two evils and we have no one better to vote for.
Then why don't you do all of the thinking Americans a favor and not vote?
Ah I love this the arrogance and ignorance displayed, just because I am a leftist I am obviously not a thinking American regardless of how many degrees I might have, regardless that I am qualified economist, regardless of how much time and study I might invest on a field and how many worldwide economic studies I might have conducted on the success and failures of left vs right political position, you are a thinking American and I am not because I am a leftist...
Well, yeah. You are voting for one because you think he is the lesser of two evils. What study of Romney as President has led you to believe he would be the greater of two evils? Did you vote for Obama in 2008? What history as a 1/2 term statesman led you to believe he was even remotely qualified to be President? Me thinks you went with your heart.
Didn't vote for him, probably would have if i had been in the country, I don't give C*&# about Obama or Romney it's just O's economic plans are slightly closer to what I believe is best I think as people they are both useless talking heads designed to look pretty for the public.
P.S. I presume you mean lesser of two evils, do you really agree entirely with Romney or is his viewpoint just closer to yours than Obama's?
I see you added some, no I am not enamored by Romney, I am hoping for the chance to write myself in, all the studies I have done have proven that I am great.
That is what we did in U.K and to our horror we got in the 'Tories'
I live in Oklahoma so my vote doesn't matter anyway!
You have proof Obama shelters his income?
Because they have it for Romney....should be easy to get on Obama too.
The Bush tax cuts will be ended...for the uber rich-- not the middle class.
They want to end corporate tax loop-holes. So then they may actually PAY the tax they are supposd to. No need to raise them, just make them pay!
Since societies are stratified going from the elite, upper-class, middle class to the proletariat or more commonly called working class, each stratus having different and antagonistic interests, class warfare is ineluctable. Class warfare, however is imposed by the upper stratus to the lowest, and can definitively be alleviated. Their pressure on congress, governments to dictate national policies are a perfect example of their absolute power. Taxation, their favorite tool. When the lowest structures are push to poverty, the upper one benefits of advantages inaccessible to other classes.
I believe that. Just as there is enough of eveything to go around,if it wasn't hoarded.
Gotta keep the supply limited so the big boys and gals can profit from the "shortage". And control the lives of everyone on the planet.
And as far as working for a living and an owner/ceo deserving the 583 times the amount of what an average worker makes.....
Here's what bosses in my industry do:
Hire a cleaner at $8.00 an hr.
She/he is supposed to clean 10 rooms in 5 hrs. The rooms go from $80-$150.00, depending on the season.
Say $80.00. So--for an $800.00 take in, the cleaner makes $40.00 keeping them clean.
For this--they are supposed to be so eternally grateful, they can't say thank you enough.
See? This is the real problem. Full grown people sitting around getting their heads all "cised-up" by slanted newscasts and blathering about it on the internet as if that accomplishes something. Get out of the chair. The key? Start locally!
You are in New Jersey, right?
Unless you believe you are or are going to be a millionaire or you don't mind subsidizing the taxes of the ultra rich and you are still going to support these golden shower fanatics then let me remind you of Forest Gump when he said, "Stupid is as stupid does." Listening to the din of insane thinking is making a whole bunch of right wing zealots just a tad loony...(using a Palin phrase)...dontcha think? Now it is time to put on the (oops, again a Palin phrase) big boy pants and think with a clear head. The rich do not care about you or me or anyone else except the rich and the GOP is the party of the rich. If you live in a single or double wide trailer you are not one of them. Hello???
I'm no Republican, but you can't lump people in a group like that. I know rich who care. When you deal in the absolute, inaccuracy is inevitable. It is called an unrealistic extreme.
"The rich do not care about you or me or anyone else except the rich"
As if one inherently cares about others because they have less money? This is the farce in your logic. Poor people only care about themselves too, it's called motivated self interest.
The government is not a charity organization. They are the one entity in America that is the least capable of balancing it's own check book. if you give the government more money they will only use it as a license to spend more money.
See? It's the death of the dollar.
Former candidate Jon Huntsman says Reagan couldn't win primary today, compares GOP to Chinese Communist Party http://thkpr.gs/IkdqyV
nobody's perfect !! All different reasons for abortions and none of them concern men-A Womans right to choose.
Hunting ! Don't know where you live so can't comment !
I did notice your comment a few days ago on gun carrying and sussed that you support it. If that had been unlawful maybe we would still have John Lennon writing good stuff,even more wonderful than that which we all know. I wonder do you have the same belief in people carrying knives and stabbing each other daily.
Never heard any Socialist okay the carrying of fire-arms...
People who abuse animals ,in my book, are the same as the fascists and I would consider the life of my dogs as important as mine and one of the worst aspects ,to me, of capitalism ,and certain Socialist countries,is the constant cruelty in terrible sadistic ways to dumb animals who cannot protect themselves in these so called 'clinics'of animal experimentation.
Otherwise Josak I enjoyed your writing,
I think we found somethng we agree upon. Animal experimentation is awful. I don't think it is a symptom of capitalim, it is more a symptom of people who don't care about animals. It disgusts me how some animals are treated. We founded an animal rescue organization and are in the process of buying land to build an animal sanctuary. Check out pawsanimalkingdom.org. I started a hubpage for the organization a few days ago but have not had the time to start any hubs. They will be coming though.
Good luck with your land and protection of our friends. I truly hope it goes well it is close to my heart. If I can help in any way I would be pleased to do so,
look forward to hearing from you,
best regards from jandee.
Thank you. We just put in an offer on a parcel of land today and are waiting to hear back from the sellers. Keep your fingers crossed.
Hi Jandee on the first one I feel i can't comment my reasons are too personal, I freely admit I have been biased by my experience so I try to stay away from it all together.
As for gun ownership well I cried when Lennon was shot but I also grew up under a dictatorship and learnt the value of the citizens ability to defend himself against people who have guns and are happy to use them in them. I grew up during this period: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War and knowing my political leanings you can see why that might have had an impact on me so again I can freely say with no issue that I am biased by my personal experience.
I also don't like people who abuse animals but animal rights has never been a cause I got involved in, always were too many people being abused to consider, I have no problem with people who are involved in that cause it's just human suffering has always moved me to action more than other things.
just a few words,
we should realise that we are animals too.
Our life ,the majority of us,is dominated by school and work. Then comes poverty and war and the oppression of most of us.
Factory farming as well as the laboratories are animal wars-----Solitary confinement and torture for animals are equally evil acts...........
Until we treat animals with respect neither can we expect it from others as we are linked.
When Capitalism is finished there will also need to be a change in the relationship of people and animal exploitation.
It cannot be put aside for another day! It is also part of the struggle against capitalism...
Let's not forget my favorite little animal the illegal alien which many times here in the US is treated worse than your household pet
Oh the illegal the favorite punching bag for the conservative movement, according to them illegals are responsible for poverty, the recession, crime, rape and the collapse of American values also god have mercy on you if they should happen to hear you speaking Spanish in public, I had a friend come to visit me form a Argentina a few years back and his English is very poor, we were in the supermarket waiting in line talking in Spanish and a woman came up to us and told us to learn English or go back to where we came from, the tragedy is it soured his opinion of a whole country full of mainly great people, it's amazing the damage ignorance and intolerance can do. Your right those people treat their dogs with more respect.
A year or so ago I was in my local supermarket. One of the checkout operators was talking to another, from what I cold make out,about a birthday party. Both with broad Mancunian accents. The woman in front of me started off on the same tirade about how they should learn our language or go back where they came from!
I had to say something, it's not repeatable here but I did get a very broad grin off the checkout operator.
In a fair world they would give you a medal for stuff like that.
"Above all, try always to be able to feel deeply any injustice committed against any person in any part of the world. It is the most beautiful quality of a man."
I've always felt those are words to live by.
Ho chi minh : ' Until Women are free neither are men'
No one is ever truly free while anyone is oppressed especially if it's half the population or more! Could not agree more, I always was a big admirer of Ho Chi Minh separate from his policies the man had so much serenity, courage and intelligence. I hope you did not take the "man" at the end of that comment to be sexist the man who made that quote was far from it.
Don't worry! I'm not heavy......on the other hand ! What was wrong with his policies ? Do tell ?
Oh nothing much I am not an expert on them to be honest I was just remarking on him as a person so I sought to separate that from his political life. I admit to a certain regrettable ignorance on Vietnam after the war it's very much on my list of things to learn ( yes it's an actual list )who says we are ever too old to stop learning?
I agree with you and we are on the same side but my personal opinion is that the party the movement should be a tool for the advancement of the working class and the people in general and not the other way around the people always know best and in any dictatorial regime history has shown those in power without the possibility of losing it tend to think they are the party they know best aand they opress us for our own good
Jandee, I don't know enough about Ho Chi Minn to opine on his policies , and I believe the ideals of socialism are alive and well and frankly not in demise but in a stage of rebirth and bloom but I do not agree with the dictatorship of the proletariat, instead I admire a man Raul Sendic, leader of the MLN Tupamaros , in my country of Uruguay who after being held as a hostage by the military dictatorship for years many of which he spend incarcerated inside a Well of about six feet in circumference when liberated did not have a message of hate or revenge but of popular mobilization,democratic participation that ended with the election of our current president jose mujica cordano who was also one of the historic leaders of the movement and a hostage himself.
Tuve el honor de servir junto a algunos compañeros Tupamaros y sin duda Raul es una inspiración.
Furthermore I could not agree more, democratic socialist mobilization is the best way and that same message of forgiveness to our oppressors and aiming to improve the nation is the uniting trend of some of the greatest leaders of our time from Raul Sendic to Mandela.
mio cid ,
why do you not go along with 'The dictatorship of the proletariat"?
Oh John! I'm blo...dy fuming ! Wish i'd been there..
Which reminds me of a 'superb'-I don't have hero's- person called
To the last paragraph that is exactly the way I feel about charities
I was answering the above poster who appears, I say appears, to think that redistribution only occurs when wealth is passed from the richest to the poorest. I'm reluctant to refer to that as redistribution, because often that is just an attempt by a particular government to make the wealthiest pay their fair share. It's not redistribution, it's fairness. Unfortunately however, the current trend in Europe, and if the Republican party get their way, will be another form of redistribution, from the poorest to the wealthiest. Many from the right leaning persuasion refuse to recognise this form of redistribution.
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment , I was trying to point out to the loon righties that redistribution of wealth in the US IS NOTHING NEW IT HAS BEEN IN PLACE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY'S HISTORY, and is a big part of what has made this country great.
I find this is getting to be a very old and very boring subject. So, I shall once again attempt to lay to rest the BS.
(a) If there were no social classes, there would be no class warfare. Most likely find something else to complain about or just many may wake up to the fact that you should be able to adjust to your environment..thus adapt might become a realization.
(b) The fact that this is a matter of discussion in the first place should show you how politicians use the status of the wealthiest to divide up America.
(c) Class warfare is just a distraction method used to confuse people about other things and to take their minds off the actions of government. The fact that people are gullible enough to believe "class warfare" is not a surprise.
(d) Redistribution of wealth- This is terminology spew that comes from politicians. It is suppose to benefit the people via a trickle down effect. However, this particular system isn't actually beneficial for citizens. It actually damages society, as a whole.
(e) What politicians don't want you to know or realize is that you're being manipulated, which is why the education aspect of the budget fell through the floor, and why the military industrial complex continues to benefit. Government prefers it's citizens to live in fear of foreign threats, so the people will look to the government for answers. Answers, which will never come. The government cannot ensure 100% safety, EVER. Even at a tyrannical extreme point of view, it still couldn't ensure it. The dumbing down of society was implemented over a decade ago and continues today. Yet no one is holding the government responsible. Not to mention, every citizen living today has less rights as they once did.
Class warfare? Just distortion.
Blaming a single party is pointless. Democrats had the majority for YEARS. So, if wealth redistribution is so important, why didn't they get the work done?
Because Wealthy Democrats Don't Want To Share The Wealth And Didn't Pass Legislation, But They Will Blame the GOP every time.
I don't think this is really a party issue, both sides share the blame for not doing what was necessary a long time ago it certainly seems the democrats are more likely to do it, though in my opinion they don't go nearly far enough.
They had their chance. You will never see it happen because they lose out. People need to get off their duff, get a job, take care of themselves and stop looking for handouts.
Obama managed to hide nearly $50K so that he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it in 2011. He can talk big and pretend the GOP is the enemy but the bottom line is that he's in it for himself and will use loopholes for is benefit.
GOP is the enemy. Until you learn that, nothing will change.
No see look....he can do that. Any liberal can do anything like that they want to. These guys don't care It's justice to them not crime. Watch and notice.
Well I am not going to say you are wrong, I don't trust any of our current politicians and I think most of them are unfortunately in it for themselves, but I stand by the statement that the democrats have a much better chance of doing it so until I have a better option I will have to vote for them, certainly better than the GOP still very disappointing.
The Dems HAD their chance. Did you notice that Redistribution was not their Mantra? Rich Democrats in Congress don't want to give up their wealth.
If they did, wouldn't that be a story?
The story is they are all greedy bastards and they all use loopholes.
Yeah I agree they are all bad, he is justly slightly better, trust me when I say it has never brought me joy to vote democrat even though I can never vote Republican and if I am going to vote for someone else I may as well just stay home.
Don't vote the party line just because that's what you have always done. Vote for the person that can repair our economy, help businesses gain confidence so they will start hiring again and investing in capital. Voting for a single party will not benefit anyone. As an Independent I carefully study the candidates, their voting history, ethics, and family. I encourage you to do the same.
FYI DEMS VS GOP is nothing short of cage wrestling. At the end of the day it is political theater. We deserve better than that.
I as a hispanic voter and an illegal alien at heart, could not vote for a republican candidate if my life depended on it, and for the last few years have been working hard to make sure any vote I can divert from the party of the xenophobes and the deporters is diverted.
Illegal alien at heart I like that, I agree even if I was a fiscal conservative I could never vote for the GOP their following is just too repugnant, the racists, the homophones and worst the religious nuts, case in point Santorum was a serious candidate in the GOP nomination, in most countries people like that are the guys on the corner yelling about the coming apocalypse who everyone does their best to avoid.
You can see some of those guys with a megaphone in manhattan, as a matter of fact I think I saw Michelle bachman around the corner from penn station last week.
Hello mio cid and josak,
it is so sweet, in a rev. way to see you both chatting,
Jandee ,It is even more sweet of you to honor us with your presence.You carry about so much positive energy and good vibes that they transmit right through your writing.
Thank you both, if that is true then it is from my many comrades through my life who have put their enormous input from their political struggles into my consciousness. Comrades from the 'camps',many from Spain dragged over to Jersey,channel Isles in chains,Russians ,Germans(Jewish)----wonderful people Oh!Jersey and Brits...............as well........
Excuse me. How rude of you to group all people of a political party into one category. Republicans, myself for one are not racist, homophobic and religious nuts. This is what I mean, when you have to facts to support what you are saying you resort to name calling. There is nothing wrong with supporting the rule of law in this country. The only race baiters I see are the one's in the democratic party projecting their own racism onto their political opponents starting with the president who thew his own grandmother under the bus making some very nasty racist comments abouit her and she more then anyone else raised him. Nice loyal grandson. Don't pretend you are smart enough to know what is in the heart of someone else because you don't.
Did I say you were racist? Nope all I said was that much of the following of the GOP was racist, homophobic or religiously intolerant. That is not an insult of the ideas of the party it's an insult at some it's followers and thus it's not a group I want to be associated with, too much intolerance and hatred and their policies back that particularly homophobia, I have no tolerance for that or for the idea that one man should have fewer rights than another so don't be surprised that your party makes me recoil in disgust.
The facts that I have to support what I say , is that I'm the illegal , Mitt Romney wants to self deport, nobody told me this I heard him, he is a xenophobe,I AND MY FAMILY ARE THE ONES,Michelle Malkin,Sean Hannity,Rush Limbaugh,Peter king,Rick Santorum,Tom tancredo,That sleaze ball sheriff Arpaio,refer to as the parasites that are responsible for everything that is possibly wrong with the state of our economy, preying on the ignorance of the general public as to the falsehood of those attacks, and what really pisses me off is when they say they really don't hate immigrants, just the illegal immigrants, only because they know they can't show their true colors that's why all in all I do Respect Pat Buchanan , because he is the only one honest enough to admit he doesn't like the multicultural expansion of America and he explains why,we can disagree but at least he doesn't think the hispanic voters are that stupid to be hoodwinked by that stupid and dishonest disclaimer.
When I see such people(racists,homophobes,sexists,,etc.) in a party that I support/belong to I would work my socks off to get such undesirables out of my party,
best from jandee
in the intro to "Discipline and Punish" there's this awful medieval capital punishment scene that emphasizes our evolution into a seemingly kinder gentler culture because we do not recognize this brutality that is the history of civilized culture.
Please let me just say it is nice that we're complaining about the president hiding his own money to avoid a tax bracket and a decade-ish ago when the president was hiding illicit sex.
30-odd years ago the president was hiding personal gain by selling weapons to the countries training, hiding, supporting terrorists and killing Americans. Today those weapons are still killing Americans.
I'm voting for the guy hiding sex or hiding his own income. we know they're politicians but i prefer the guy hiding money to the guy whose going to put a gun in the hand of a terrorist.
You prefer the guy (Obama) that doesn't want to pay taxes on his own income?
This is the same guy that pretends that the GOP is an evil empire.
Voters are suckers. Obama and the InJustice Department signed off on Fast and Furious.
So do you prefer him hiding money or putting guns in the hands of terrorists?
by Deforest 8 years ago
poor" by Gore Vidal. He added that the rich are living off the federal government (contracts and tax breaks...).I definitively agree with him. Your opinion?
by nightwork4 12 years ago
Will the wealthy continue to run the U.S.?the people of the U.S. seem to want wealthy people in charge of their country, will this ever change?even the people in congress tend to be rich, why do the citizens let this happen?
by Dennis L. Page 11 years ago
Do tax breaks for the rich really create jobs?Nick Hanauer, a venture capitalist states consumers create jobs and not the wealthy. He claims the rich only hire if consumers are buying goods and products and that there are not enough wealthy to support our economy. He says, "If it were true...
by EPman 12 years ago
Tell me, oh wise opponents of the tax cuts, why is letting rich people keep what they earn detrimental to the "greater good", but printing and putting billions of dollars in the hands of these uber-greedsters FOR the "greater good"? -- especially when these people lost money in...
by Scott Belford 7 years ago
The bottom line of President Reagan's Right-wing endorsed economic policy is that "if you put more money in the hands of the wealthy, it will, 1) Expand the economy, 2) Let the boat rise with the economy, and 3) Prosperity will "Trickle-down to expand the middle class.None of those things...
by Stump Parrish 12 years ago
How do we make sure this doesn't happen again you ask? Deregulate further and open more of the gulf to drilling. That could only makes sense to those in the oil companies back pockets.
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