Can anyone present scientific proof to support transgenderism?

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   RJ Schwartzposted 7 years ago

   Can anyone present scientific proof to support transgenderism?
   
   What peer-reviewed scientific data can be shown to prove the theories of a "man in a woman's body or woman trapped in a man's body"? 
   
   

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   bradmasterOCcalposted 7 years ago

   That question is the core of the problem for all of LBGT? There are no objective and scientific proofs on defining the issue of preference versus non preference.
   
   With that in mind, we are simply told by a person that they are this or that. This should not be a subjective determination by individual themselves.
   
   For example, if a man wants to get some of the low interest loans from the government given to women, should he get them just by declaring he thinks he is a woman?
   
   Because this country is segregated by gender, this lack of objective determination for gender is a problem. Can a male, simply say he is a woman and if he committed a crime, demand he be put in a women's prison.
   Should the girls school locker room and showers be forced to share penis possessing students claiming female as their gender, but obviously not passing the litmus test.
   
   Look at the problems created by the SCOTUS in Roe v Wade because they refused to provide the time when life begins. Now, are they going to do the same with the LGBT issues.
   
   With the last few decades PC and the abuse of the 14th amendment equality, we still have no legal consensus on why men can go topless in public, but women no matter what the size of their breasts are restrained by the law. The question then becomes what is illegal. Is it the breasts or the breasts and the gender. There are many men out there that have bigger breast than women. So equality would dictate the issue is non gender breasts. That is All breasts are either free or not free to be shown in public. This is clearly a push on the idea of gender equality.
   
   The point is that without objective standards, the tail is wagging the cat. I say cat because tail wagging by a cat means they are agitated, while it is a happy dog that wags their tail.
   
   If we take this subjective approach further, what is to prevent people from misstating their physical attributes. A 5ft person thinks they are 6ft tall, so that is what they put on forms. A person with brown eyes thinks they are blue, and so on.
   
   A person that is black in skin color puts down they are white. And today we have people calling them selves black because of the old rule, that even 1% of black in a person makes them Black regardless of the 99% white.
   
   It sounds absurd, but that is what happens without objective standards.
   BTW, there will never be human equality as long as the government keeps pigeon holing people on their government forms.
   del if u wish

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      MizBejabbersposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Brad, although you have some valid points, you are confusing transgender with transvestite. A true transgender has had the sex change physically. A transvestite just cross dresses. They aren't, or shouldn't be, welcome in the opposite bathrooms

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      bradmasterOCcalposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Without scientific proof Transvestites and Transgender are the same, a preference. I think the rest of my points were consistent with this one. Without a litmus test, people will scam us, and in turn, it will hurt the ones that truly need to be recog

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      RJ Schwartzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Even if someone gets an operation to change their anatomy, it doesn't make them magically become a different sex.

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      fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe I can't include myself in a discussion of this nature. I have my own thoughts & questions. I'm sure they're not PC. eg, the photo? I want 2 know: What goes on in their minds? What do they C when they look in the mirror? I SEE huge problems.

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   MizBejabbersposted 7 years ago

   I don't think there is any scientific proof, nor do I think there will be. I'm not saying that a person can't feel that their body is the wrong sex, but I think it is a matter that has to be taken on faith, like one's religion. I've known effeminate men who've fathered several kids and been great husbands, and those men have never claimed to be female. Likewise, there are women who exhibit male qualities and make great wives and mothers. They don't claim to be the opposite sex either, so what gives? That is why I say that it has to be taken on faith if a person says he or she feels like the opposite sex.
   I am a liberal person in most instances, but this is where I draw the line. I have every sympathy for a person who is gay or lesbian, and have no problem with their identity. I've had many gay friends. But I don't think, at this point, making a person feel happy by giving him or her a remodeled body should be society's problem. If one of my boys had told me he felt like a girl and wanted me to pay for transformation surgery, I would have told him that I couldn't afford to buy him braces for his teeth, so forget it and live with his plumbing. Maybe parents are too indulgent with these kids. Are they even old enough to make such decisions. Is it just a fad that someday the person will regret? I'm speaking of young people, not older adults here.
   It isn't just a probem that can't be answered by science.  Many of our lawmakers who don't know the difference between transgender and transvestite are causing avoidable problems, which I think are a tempest in a teapot. Laws are being passed making transgenders stay within their original gender in society. For instance the "girl-to-boy" wrestler who was told he had to continue to wrestle girls although he wanted to wrestle in the boys division. He won because he/she was taking testosterone and it was unfair to both the girls he beat and to himself.
   Hey, a guy with a penis wearing a dress has no place in a women's bathroom or changing room, and I think even flaming liberal women will agree with me.

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      lisavollrathposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Umm, hi. Flaming liberal woman here. I know for a fact I've shared a restroom with a transgender woman who had not had her surgery yet. Didn't matter to me a bit. We both peed, washed our hands, checked our makeup, and walked out.

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      RJ Schwartzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      OK - so what?  Anyone can cite a single instance of no-issue.  Just because you accept someone's choice play dress up doesn't make it able to be supported by facts.

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      MizBejabbersposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I tend to be more liberal than conservative, and I don't think science or psychiatry will prove it. Parapsychology, maybe. In parapsychology we have an answer, but as I said, it's more taken on faith than facts.

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   fpherj48posted 7 years ago

   Hi Ralph....As your question is worded and being cautiously literal....I'm not sure about "supporting" transgenderism.  However, I am familiar with Dr. Paul R. McHugh, Psychiatrist/John Hopkins and much of his work~(6 books & 127 peer-reviewed medical articles)
   There is far too much research, numerous findings and publications of data to go into detail, here in a comment section, but can surely be googled for you to investigate. I highly  recommend his sites.
   To note just a couple of Dr. McHugh's findings on his studies of transgenderism:  He leaves no room whatsoever in his diagnosis that transgenderism is a mental illness.He notes in several explanations and medical histories (physical & mental) that studies from Vanderbilt University, London, found undisputed data in which all patients who participated over months of clinical treatment received the following results:  Of all subjects who had experienced profound transgender "feelings" over a period of time in their lives, 70 - 80% of them ultimately and spontaneously "lost those feelings entirely."  The conclusion giving serious weight to the "Phase" existence in human nature.
   Another of this Dr's findings published in his works is the fact that the suicide rate of transgendered individuals is 20% higher among those who had opted for the "reassignment surgery."
   I will stop here, Ralph, but again, I suggest you google this Dr. for at least one professional's scientific results based upon in-depth study.

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      RJ Schwartzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I'm in no way in need of education on the subject Paula - it's a mental disorder.  What I am interested in is understanding how the leftist mind "proves" a scientific connection.

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      fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      RJ..So sorry, my misunderstanding! In that case, I'm rather clueless. I'm unaware lefties claim "a scientific connection" 4 transgenderism. (unlike homosexuality) It all confuses me. IMO, they fabricate & grasp at straws. I'm no Scientist!

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      fpherj48posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      As a lay-person w/ a good brain, I believe there's no way the left (or any1) can change what IS to what is NOT. I don't even grasp how 1 "feels" they R a gender that they were not born. Sorry I even tried to ans. This totally confounds me, RJ.

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   tamarawilhiteposted 7 years ago

   If they have a brain that isn't a fit for the body, that is by definition a mental illness.

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