Where Do Gender Reassignment People Fit in?

1. 73

   Lady Guinevereposted 10 years ago

   Where Do Gender Reassignment People Fit in?
   
   I was just watching a show and they had a father who got a sex change.  That family was having issues with family-type things.  Our society is going through an identity crisis and it is not only who we are but what we are and what we are to others and ourselves.  Being that religion is trying to make all of us some kind of BORG, if a father, or mother, got a sex change would the other person be considered GAY if they stayed married and how or what would that teach our children?

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2. 83

   Spongy0llamaposted 10 years ago

   They fit in everywhere. Everyone has the right to the human experience and that includes all sexes and genders (of which there are many more than small-minded people are willing to recognize).

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3. 87

   izettlposted 10 years ago

   There isn't any one answer for this. Psychologically we struggle with LGBT community because it's such a gray area that we can't possibly know what's right or wrong or up or down, and we can't really categorize any of it either. As humans, we like to categorize- we do it without even knowing it.
   I think it's all personal choice. My father got a sex change when I was in my 20's- I'm now late 30's. I wrote some hubs on this too. The consensus is it ruins most families. My mom put up with my dad dressing up for 18 yrs of marriage- I blame her more for staying with him than if she had got away sooner. Accepting that in the marriage ruined her self esteem and she actually believed she could never have better for herself.
   I have a relationship with both parents, but honestly I think it teaches kids to put up with a lot of crap if a wife stays with a man who gets or wants a sex change- it's a selfish endeavor rather than a family decision. Sure I want to be free and let my hair blow in the wind, but I'm married and I don't have much freedom to do whatever when the wind strikes with 2 small kids- that's a family commitment I made. I'm fine with it too, but changing sex is not a good family decision- it's  personal decision. 9 times out of 10 it ruins some aspect of the family dynamic.
   Not sure what you mean about religion making us a "borg"? Is Facebook teaching us anything better? Are our schools foolproof too? What does religion have to do with it? religion isn't perfect - it is simply a foundation to live our lives. I think we could all use a little more of that to live by than living by every Facebook post.
   Our society rewards perfection, yet simultaneously says to accept differences. Silliness. The biggest identity crisis we're having is men not manning up and being men and women being too much like men- it's a cultural gender identity crisis. I'm a strong independent woman, but I very much value women being nurturing, home makers, stay-at-home moms, and devoted to family. Women hold value just by being women, we don't need to be like men to have value.   
   A man who wants to be a woman and is willing to risk tearing his family apart is not a true woman- this is something said by someone I know who went through all of this. A true woman would never tear her family apart or do something so selfish.

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   1. 74

      Abby Campbellposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Very well said, Izetti! I'm so sorry you had to go through what you did. I can't even imagine. I agree with you on everything you have said. Your last paragraph says it all. Each of us need to think of those we will affect, not just ourselves.

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   2. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      This is kind of sexist. Your comment about "men not manning up and being men" is also extremely ignorant. It was probably societal pressure that forced your father to be "normal". Your family was torn apart long before your father's sex change.

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   3. 73

      Lady Guinevereposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Religion has everything to do with it.  Religion dictates who it wants us to be.  Manning up?  Sexist, yes.  Women also have these sex changes. Agree on the decision on the Family issue. Not sure who U R, Then Dont marry N have kids.

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   4. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That's how I feel. I don't think the problem is as much the sex change as it is that a woman in a man's body was forced by society (and by extension, religion) into a situation that ultimately led to the family's downfall.

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4. 71

   cebutouristspotposted 10 years ago

   society will soon learn to accept that.  Freedom at it best or worst depending on the person looking at it.

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      izettlposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Society does not HAVE TO accept it- that takes away our freedom. Freedom is people thinking or believing how they choose- where is the freedom in saying society has to accept?

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   2. 73

      Lady Guinevereposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      What if we had no outwards signs of sexual orientation and everyone was treated as they pronounce themselves??

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5. 74

   Abby Campbellposted 10 years ago

   I think I've seen that show too. I can't imagine what the family had to endure. I would be heartbroken if my father caused issues for the entire family because he was going through an identity crisis.
   
   Our society is definitely going through an identity crisis. Throughout the last 25 years, I have had friends (mostly men) who are gay. I still loved them, though I don't think I will understand "why?" Sometimes, I think it's because of all the hormones in our foods that wreak havoc on our own hormones. Then I think about some of my friends whom I've known since they were small children... boys who have always been feminine and taken an interest in girly things. For those, I can understand their tendencies toward homosexuality more than those who have grown, married, had children... and then go through an "I think I want to be a woman or man now."
   
   However, I would have to say that we as human adults also have responsibilities. Many of us go through identity crises at some point in our life. This is especially true for those at mid-age (40s and 50s). For men, it happens as they ponder whether they have reached the milestones and success they believe they should have by this age. For women, it happens because their children are grown and their own identities were destroyed because they wrapped up in those children for 18+ years. We could all go out and be destructive selfish, thus disrupt the lives those we love. Or, we can be responsible people. Like izetti said, "A man who wants to be a woman and is willing to risk tearing his family apart IS NOT A TRUE WOMAN." This quote can also be turned to a woman who does the same.
   
   It doesn't matter what my opinions are regarding gender identities. For those who believe in God and use the Bible as their guideline and standard, judgment will ultimately be God's doing. All we can do as mere humans is love those who go through their struggles, and that includes the identity crisis. That doesn't mean I have to accept it. But, those that are going through their crises must also be responsible adults.

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   1. 87

      izettlposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Like Silverspeeder said below, it has to do with mental illness. I believe it does as well with women who fail their families to such an extreme as a trans man does- a real woman not doing that and a woman who does likely has a mental illness.

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   2. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It is incredibly ignorant of you to chalk up issues of gender identity to "identity crisis" and "mid-life crisis. Your views on homosexuality are also very ill-informed and ignorant. People can only conform to society's expectations for so long.

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   3. 74

      Abby Campbellposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry I offended you, Spongy. This is an open forum, and I am entitled to my own opinion. If one is born a specific gender, what in nature specifies he/she to be different? Only medical technology gives people permission to change. It's unnatural.

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   4. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You didn't offend me and you have the right to voice your opinion. However, I have the right to challenge it as well. I want you to think more carefully about, for example, what being "natural" actually means rather than assuming you already know.

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   5. 74

      Abby Campbellposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Spongy - You are the one who is name calling here. This is why I mentioned that I have a right to state my opinion. You are rude and offensive and act as if "you" know everything. Maybe you should check science for what natural is.

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   6. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      What name have I called you?
      
      I don't know everything, and neither do you, but we both get a little closer through intelligent argumentation. Open your mind.
      
      You can't make ignorant claims and expect people to accept them without rebuttal.

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   7. 74

      Abby Campbellposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You have called several of us here "ignorant" as well as "uneducated." You don't know any of us from Adam, so what makes you far superior? LOL. What you have stated throughout these threads is your mere opinion or feelings on the topic, just as ours.

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   8. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't called anyone ignorant or uneducated. I have criticized comments made out of ignorance and lack of education on the topics discussed.
      
      It would be in better taste for you to intelligently argue my points rather than just attack me.

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   9. 73

      Lady Guinevereposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I dont see anywhere that name calling was brought into the discussion.  STOP ACCUSING PEOPLE OF THIS.  I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE TWISTING THINGS LIKE THIS ALL OVER HP.

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   10. 74

       Abby Campbellposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       LOL. It's actually the other way around. You have attacked others by giving your "opinion" of what we say is ignorant and uneducated. What challenge? Your words have merely been opinions, and I will no longer be susceptible to your attacks.

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   11. 83

       Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       I am sorry you do not wish to hold up your end of the debate. I will let it go. 
       
       For the record, it accomplishes nothing to take challenges to your opinion so personally. It was not my intent to offend you, just to discuss and learn from each other

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   12. 85

       krillcoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       see my article on 'vitriolic radicalism'

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   13. 73

       Lady Guinevereposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       krillco, please provide the link to your article.  I want to read it.

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   14. 85

       krillcoposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       http://krillco.hubpages.com/hub/Charact … Radicalism

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6. 59

   Silverspeederposted 10 years ago

   I believe that transgender reassignment is nothing to do with being gay or lesbian I think it's more to do with mental illness, the overwhelming desire that takes a grip of the minds conscience and sub conscience, many people have been taken over by their desire to be different or look different, from those getting full body tattooed to people altering their appearance to look like animals or vampires.
   There are very few humans who are born with both sets of genitalia, those are the ones who really have to decide which side of the sexes they sit all the others are self promoting their desire, a desire I believe to be a low form if mental illness to do more with self esteem than the nature of ones body.
   Here in the UK people can have gender reassignment for free on the NHS but they have to consult with mental health staff first.
   However as you wouldn't discriminate against someone with mental illness you shouldn't discriminate against someone who has undergone gender reassignment.

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   1. 87

      izettlposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I absolutely agree with your comment. I think there is a degree of mental illness and no, I don't believe we should discriminate either.

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   2. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      This is incredibly ignorant of you. Just because someone does not fit into society's narrow conceptions of man/woman; male/female does not mean that he or she is mentally ill. Gender and sex politics are more complicated than you think. Get educated.

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   3. 59

      Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If they don't fit into natures normality it means there is something wrong with them, when you realise that you may find out what's wrong with you.

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   4. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      What do you know about "nature's normality"? A lot less than you think, I assure you. Homosexuality occurs in nature, infanticide occurs in nature. Just what point are you trying to make?

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   5. 59

      Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I think you will find homosexual activity is between humans. However I acknowledge there is sexual activity between same sex animals but I am sure it's more about a desire to mate than the fact of them being gay. Peadophiles also occurs is that OK?

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   6. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      No, dolphins engage in homosexual activity purely for for the sake of pleasure and affection. You don't know enough about zoology for me to take you seriously on that front. Pedophilia is a crime, of course it is not okay. You need more education.

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   7. 59

      Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      But you are expounding the virtues that if animal do it its OK. You obviously know everything about Zoology and nothing at all about humans. Only a few decades ago homosexuality was a crime.
      As i said a desire to mate nothing more.

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   8. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Humans are animals. We are more closely related to chimpanzees on the evolutionary scale than chimpanzees are to orangutans, for example.
      
      Homosexuality was criminalized thanks to ignorance and bigotry, not because it is "wrong"

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   9. 73

      Lady Guinevereposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Those who are born with both sets will not be able to make their decision until they are adults.  Parents, society and the church often CHOOSE for the child.

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   10. 59

       Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       So you will just chose those things from the animal kingdom that suit your argument and ignore all the other anomalies that make say chimpanzees different to humans.
       However I know of none that have had a sex change.

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   11. 83

       Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       You're just attacking my argument rather than challenging it with your own. That just isn't going to cut it.

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   12. 59

       Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Your argument seems to be its OK for humans to do it because animals of lower intelligence do it. As if they have made a informed decision that they are gay. Animals do things by instinct not by choice.

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   13. 83

       Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       That part of my argument was to support  that homosexuality is not unnatural as it occurs in nature.
       
       Humans are animals as well with their own set of instincts. We do not choose to be straight or gay, it is but another of many  natural occurrences.

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   14. 59

       Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Now we agree on something as I believe homosexuals are born. But the original question was about transgender reasignment which is not in anyway natural.
       I said homosexuality is not the norm because heterosexuality is.

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   15. 83

       Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Oh, yes, sorry to digress. Um, homosexuality is not the norm, but neither is having red hair. I will always defend it's legitimacy.
       
       No, gender reassignment does not happen in nature, but my final word on that is just to each his own and respect all

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7. 42

   ChristinSposted 10 years ago

   Wow, that is really a tough situation.  On one hand you have the family to consider and the changing dynamics and how unfair it is to inflict that kind of change and pain on those around you.  On the other hand, you have someone who so obviously feels they are living a lie or were born in the wrong body etc. and they are miserable trying to be someone who they really aren't.  It is also unfair to that person to have to live his/her life as the wrong gender too. 
   
   I would think a family going through this would really need to have good counseling and support before, during and after for it to be a success.  The family is obviously never going to be the same, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be good again, particularly if they work through it as a whole unit.

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   1. 83

      Spongy0llamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If he was already a woman in a man's body (to speak in grossly oversimplified terms), I feel that the family was already dysfunctional and that this whole situation is the fault of narrow-minded expectations of what a family should be.

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8. 59

   mylindaelliottposted 10 years ago

   Good grief, this is mind boggling.  I suppose it would be up to the people involved and how they thought of themselves.

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