Transgender Children

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   vintageglamourposted 13 years ago

   So I've seen a few documentaries this past month about transgendered children
   
   one story that particularly stuck in my mind was this  11 year old trans girl named jazz. She was so beautiful and outgoing and were surrounded by friends and family that loved her and her friends knew she was a boy and is now a girl and still love her all the same.
   
   It was actually really touching and I'll admit a little shocking, I didn't expect that to be their reaction.
   
   Question: do you think we are now living in a society that is more understanding and accepting to different ways of LGBT(etc) living/being or do you think there is a new generation of children growing up that have just been over exposed to everything that nothing can really be that shocking anymore.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Of course they're being overexposed.
      The liberal agenda puts kids at the forefront of all controversies, using them as scapegoats and guinea pigs.  It should be criminal to operate on a child to try to change their gender.  If they're born male, for their sake let them be male, and if they're born female, let them be female!
      The only time when a choice would have to be made would be if they're born with no obvious gender or born with parts of both genders.

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         amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Brenda:
         My best friend's son is transgender.  NOBODY pushed their 'agenda' on this little boy.  Both parents are conservative.  He's been talking about wanting to be a girl since he started talking.  That is NOT an exageration.  They have finally accepted him for who he is.  A loving, sensitive boy who is very different but a very wonderful and special child.
          
         I think it's awful how closed minded some people can be.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            This is food for much discussion.  But I dare not, because of your last sentence.  I'm afraid you may not be open-minded enough to consider all the possibilities of why the child might've thought and/or said he wanted to be a girl.

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               amymarie_5posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I am a person who is not only open minded but I try to understand and not judge people. Yes, I get tired of the rhetoric from the religious right. Many transgender and gay children end up suicide because of the way they are treated. I love my best friend and her son. He's like a nephew to me and I get very defensive over the people I care about. I've learned so much from him about human nature and I hope he is strong enough to deal with closed minded and prejudiced people. Especially if he chooses to live his life as a female.

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                  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I think we have to be careful here also. My son is gay, however, he identifies as male. Sexuality/gender identification issues are two separate entities. I do think it's terribly sad that some ill informed, misguided people believe that gender/sexuality issues are a result of over exposure or a political agenda. When my son encounters such hypocrisy, he has learnt to laugh about it and he actually says" at least I'll never be a hater, they should be pitied."
                  
                  Still, hopefully one day they'll get their mind out of the gutter and stop thinking about the sex, and start thinking about the person.

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                     Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     true.. and remember that all people are equally capable of clicking on an Adsense ad, if they are so inclined to do so

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                        Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Oh, fundie porn, shocked!

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   Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

   i used to be a transgender child until I started to like Power Rangers more
   
   

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      LookingForWaldenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The megatron that turns into a gun.
      Accept no substitutes.

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         MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I liked optimus prime more... the truck was wicked cool for storing things.

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   skyfireposted 13 years ago

   Starscream and Skyfire anytime... and yeah, Mirage and Soundwave too..
   
   Power rangers ? Okay, that's gay.

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   Disturbiaposted 13 years ago

   I have no issue with transgender adults, however, children are a different matter.  I don't think they are mature enough to know or understand the decision being made.  I'm sure if you asked little tom-boy Mary who likes to climb trees, has never been a girly-girl, and plays sports with the boys, would she rather be a boy, she'd probably say yes, but that doesn't mean she's going to be happy living her adult life as a man. I think this is a choice and a decision for adults who have had counseling and are completely aware of the consequences of their actions.

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      gamergirlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Children can receive therapy and counseling as well.  Between capable gender therapists and responsible parents, there should be no problem for a child to come to an understanding of their gender.  Suppression is one of the worst weapons people use against trans* people.

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         ThomasRydderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I can't even believe there are people who think like this. Eleven years old and capable of coping with changing their sex. You HAVE to be kidding. They haven't figured out how to multply and divide, much less switch genders. You're scary....

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            gamergirlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thomas, I'm not saying "go ahead, put a 10 year old under the knife."  I'm saying, go ahead, let a child who is beginning to question their gender, or asserts they are trans* pursue professional and supportive assistance for tackling the tough mental/emotional issues that can, do, and will arise from that.  It's rough enough being a teenager, add gender identity issues and the social b.s. that gets thrown at trans* people on top of that, and yeah, having someone to talk to without judgement is an awesome thing.

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      LookingForWaldenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Normally I really don't care what people do if it only effects them.
      However, you bring up a valid point about children.
      It would seem logical that no elective hormones or surgeries should be done on a person until they reach the age of legal consent in whatever countries they live in.
      
      I can't think of another way to protect them from abusing said practices.

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   gamergirlposted 13 years ago

   I, as a 29 year old trans* person, have grown up all my life with the vitriolic political motives of people who want to use gender identity struggles and/or sexuality struggles as talking points or to bolster their arguments in other avenues.  To me, the shocking part (not anymore, but years ago) is that people would rather be hateful toward other human beings, than try to understand them and come to some kind of common ground.
   
   In no way do I approve of erasure or stifling of any person's gender identity, no matter their age, and am glad to see more and more cases where a person's individual gender realities are being acknowledged and at least the right to choose is respected.

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   jcalesposted 13 years ago

   It depends on the society you are talking about. Micro-society in Hollywood Yes. People in Iowa many other places - No. Heck, they will not even accept gays. I will not say "they". How about "groups" and you could even say a majority of the population. As for me, I don't mind who you are as an adult as long as you contribute to society, and are a good person. I htink as a 10 or 12 yr old it is a little early.
   
   I agree being hateful towarsd another based on skin color, facial features, health, or $exual orientation is ignorant and idiotic. There's great people from all groups and there's bad people from all groups.
   
   I do strongly think arguments about race and being gay are apples & oranges. $exual orientation/preference is not ethnicity or a color. People are born african, latino, asian, caucasian, peopel may not know they are gay until experimenting or until their teens.

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   ThomasRydderposted 13 years ago

   Wow....I don't know..guess I'm old-fashioned. And every time a subject like this comes up, I'm so glad I am. I guess that in today's world you have to let GROWN people do what they will, as long as they don't stomp on someone else's EQUAL RIGHTS (another subject that chaps my butt). However-children are quite another thing. As I mentioned to the life-long he-she above, kids that haven't reached their teens can't decide what they are going to do after school, much less what sex they want to be. Criminy, this is just ridiculous, and I can't believe I'm participating. Things such as hormonal imbalances and such exist, but the answer isn't sex change...it's helping your kid figure out who they are...

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      gamergirlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Let's leave off the personal attacks, shall we?  You can call me Kiz, or GG, or if those are too taxing to remember, use my HubPages username as a mode of reference.  Thanks.

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         LookingForWaldenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It was a disparaging remark which overshadows anything he might have said that could have otherwise contributed to a meaningful discussion.

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   ThomasRydderposted 13 years ago

   you know what...you're right, and I apologize. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...I just find some of them very disturbing. I grew up in a time when boys were boys, girls were girls and that was life. There wasn't any wondering who you were, outside of a career and what have you. It's foreign to me, and troubling. Although not religious, I'm spiritual, and I believe tampering with what we've been given is both sinful and sick. I'm sorry for any offense...but not for my beliefs.

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      LookingForWaldenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That was admirable of you.
      I understand what you are saying about it not seeming as prevalent in earlier generations.
      
      I hypothesize that there probably were just as many people dealing with this issue throughout time, but based on medical technology and severe social and physical repercussions it probably wasn't as public as it is now.

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   ThomasRydderposted 13 years ago

   Technology...truly a double-edged sword. Makes me kinda want to go back to trading pigs for corn and moving to a cabin on a mountain somewhere. I don't know though...is it so much that man (and woman) has been dealing with this for a long time? I'm sure there has been some...there has been homosexuality for centuries. But..is it a trend that comes from an evolution of our society as a whole?

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    gamergirlposted 13 years ago

    Being trans* isn't new.  It isn't a modern concept.  The difference between now and 50 years ago is that people have the ability to express themselves without as much ostracism from their peers.  Believe me when I tell you that you would be hard pressed to actually find a time when everyone knew precisely who and/or what they were from the onset.
    
    As for whether or not bringing your sex into line with your gender, I'm happy to say it isn't SICK.  If a child is born with its fingers fused together, surgery is performed to separate the child's fingers so it can live a better life.  I use this example because for trans* people, it is much the same issue.  Quality of life is important, and we are absolutely lucky to live in a country where we can consider things such as gender and sex as points to adjust, because our quality of life is higher than in places where people starve to death for want of food, freeze to death for want of shelter, or die in agony for want of proper medical attention.

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    ThomasRydderposted 13 years ago

    Well, I see at least one person didn't take my apology to heart. From your photo, first of all, I'd say you have no idea what was going on fifty years ago. But I'll tell you this...it wasn't changing your sex. It was dealing with what you had. Staying married because getting married meant a life-long commitment, not divorcing at the first sign of trouble. Going to war for your country and not jumping over a border because you were a "conscientious objecter"...and it was being born either a boy or a girl and enjoying every darned minute of it. Now....are some born the wrong sex? I'd have to say yes....common knowledge is that either sex is removed from another by the smallest of margins. Is it as prevalent as what's represented in society today? HELL NO. It's liberalism, Human Rights, and this whole attitude that everyone is right and no one can say otherwise. Bull-hockey.

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       LookingForWaldenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I strongly agree with you about the commitment of marriage.
       
       I don't find guys kissing guys attractive but I don't care about what other people do that doesn't effect me.
       
       I would venture to say not all black people would share a similar description of what it was like fifty years ago.

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    gamergirlposted 13 years ago

    Thomas, I did take your apology to heart.  That doesn't mean we do not still disagree fundamentally.
    
    Of course I do not have first hand experience of life fifty years ago.  I have only the stories, anecdotal as they may be, from many people inside and out of the gay, trans* and straight communities, people who I have broken bread with, listened to the good and the bad from, and learned a great deal from.
    
    Some of these folk are in their 60's and 70's, meaning their formative years come from the range of time I referred to, and so I would hope to think that they knew better than most what it was like to grow up in that time period as a person who was gay, trans* or otherwise.
    
    We can agree on points, however, as I agree that the attitude that everyone is right and nobody can say otherwise is bull-hockey as you put it.  Civilly disagreeing is a fine skill to have, and I'm glad you raised the points you did, even if we do disagree, because it means that people who read the forums, whether they comment or not, will have the chance to read both sides and get an idea for themselves.

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    ThomasRydderposted 13 years ago

    Well, it takes many different kinds to make this ball of mud spin. Myself, I can't ever get my head around someone who decides to alter themselves because of a desire to be something they aren't. But, that's me. I'd have to say if I was in that situation, I might do it..I don't know...now will I ever. Thank God. And Walden, I wholeheartedly agree that no one shares a common view with the track of history, good or bad...but it's surely changing..and not all for the better. Life is funny....such a cycle. I remember my father lamenting about the good old days and how they were so simple...now look at me. Ah well...we all have to go where our heart takes us I'd imagine...as long as it doesn't hurt another, then...well...Lord help us all...

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    Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

    The most important thing to remember is that regardless of sexual orientation,   as long as a person has a penis (whether born with one or obtained through surgery), he is by definition superior to his female counterpart.
    
    I am sure can all at least agree on that
    
    

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       gamergirlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Do the ones you can buy from the 21-and-up video stores count in this assertion of yours?

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          of course! i am not judgmental.. a penis is a penis is a penis!

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             MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Then I am far superior... I have a whole briefcase of them...

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    Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

    ..as a matter of fact, since my wife has been in possession of the penis i was born with since our wedding day, advantage Mrs. Greek One!

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    ThomasRydderposted 13 years ago

    That's simply one more think I like about HP. Every once in awhile, someone like greek one comes along and reminds the rest of us that we don't have a problem in the world....

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       LookingForWaldenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Comedy unites us all.
       
       If anything we should discrimate against people who do not have a sense of humor.
       
       Seriously, have you ever met someone without a sense of humor? They suck.

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          gamergirlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          But the question is.. how well?
          
          Alright, enough topic derailing from me.

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             Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             .. no..i'm interested too.. how well?

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                LookingForWaldenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Sadly, the bad way

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    gamergirlposted 13 years ago

    Mrs. Greek One and I are going to have statue-videogameconsole-transloving-gayloving-straightloving babies.  It's going to be awesome.

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       Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       oh good.. because I told her after our second one arrive in February, if so so much as THINKS of touching me again, I'm moving to Tibet

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       ThomasRydderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       my son-in-law told me that his wife carries his around in her purse, until she figures he needs it...

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          Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I'm not allowed to make such determinations myself...
          
          But I will be advised as required.

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    jenniferrpoveyposted 13 years ago

    As usual, people show something of a misunderstanding of transgenderism (not everyone).
    
    We are born with a physical sex that is normally either male or female. (I say normally, because sometimes the process messes up and you get somebody who ends up somewhere in the middle).
    
    We also appear to have some kind of mechanism that informs us, at a deep level, of which sex we are. I call this the 'ego sex' because to say gender is confusing and implies gender is a binary, which it may not be - there are many different ways to be male and female.
    
    Children have a strong ego sex by the time they are *three years old*. Yes. The average three year old knows he or she is a boy or a girl. By this age, they begin to become aware of sex role expectations and will start to seek out sex appropriate toys unless raised in a manner that does not show/demonstrate those expectations. Nonetheless, the average three year old knows what sex he or she is.
    
    If you think about it, this is kind of important for reproduction. You need to know what sex you are and what sex you can reproduce with.
    
    It appears that sometimes, perhaps due to hormone levels in early development and almost certainly in some cases due to the existence of XX/XY mosaicism, the ego sex doesn't match the physical sex.
    
    This results in a rather unfortunate individual who has something in their brain screaming that they are the wrong sex. It's my experience that such people can only be fully happy if permitted to live as their ego sex. This does not necessarily mean surgery - not all transgendered individuals have GRS and some only have partial GRS. Some only have hormone therapy. But the key is that they truly, deeply believe they are SUPPOSED to be the sex they are changing to. They don't WANT to be that sex, they feel as if they are SUPPOSED to be. Huge difference, there.
    
    This is independent of sexuality - I have a friend who is a trans woman and a lesbian. It really annoys me when people ask 'Are you straight, gay, bisexual OR transgendered', because transgendered is not a sexual orientation, it's a completely different thing.

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       Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you, that's what I was trying to get across.

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       Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Actually, it's even earlier than that. A child will begin to identify with what they believe to be a same sex parent at  two years old and emulate that parents behaviour.

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          jenniferrpoveyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I've seen figures ranging from 18 months to 3. I went with the higher end just to be 'sane' on the matter.

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    gamergirlposted 13 years ago

    Great post, Jennifer. I agree completely.

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    MelissaBarrettposted 13 years ago

    As a parent, I would hold off on any medical intervention until the child was 18.  I know quite a few lesbians/gays that experienced a sense of gender misalignment as a pre-cursor to discovering their sexual orientation.  When I was growing up I had a period of time where I fantasized about being a boy.  If I remember correctly it was around the same time I started feeling the first stirrings of sexual attraction to other girls.
    
    With that said, I support my kids in doing anything they feel is right to find themselves. If one of my children approached me with feelings of being the wrong sex, I would support any life changes they needed to figure it out... but I would encourage them to not make any irreversible changes until they were sure.

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       jenniferrpoveyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You do need to be sure and certain this is not some kind of phase the child is going through. Uncertain gender identity happens even to completely heterosexual youngsters as those crazy hormones go up and down, up and down.
       
       But I think if somebody is truly transgendered, they may be aware of it very early. Or not - my friend did not accept herself as a trans woman until her mid twenties and went through all kinds of possibilities including trying 'very hard to be a gay man'.
       
       It's not always cut and dried.

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