There is a God who created all things in the visible universe, He gave humanity the ability to understand his creation. His creation can not be equated with him through any school of thought, or by any known knowledge available.
If you have alternative viewpoints, please feel free to do so politely, with respect. Insult and abuse will do us no good...some of use are fun of insulting one another just to win argument, especially when it is not in tandem with our belief or orientation, that's not a mature way of handling things.
The real fun in argument is not by winning one, but by learning something from other people's opinion, whether we accept it or not is a matter of personal understanding.
Science is a systematized knowledge in general, God is not knowledge...He is a being. The creator of every other beings (visible and invisible)....
As a preamble i want to admonish every contributor in this thread to please refrain from any personal attack in any form and manner....This was the main reason for the ending of the previous thread, if you say there is no God, you have a reprobate mind when the ovation was loudest.
This is the precise message by Norah Casey....''This thread is now closed due to a large number of accurate personal attack flags.''
We are all all mature and i belief in the adults world, opinions are bound to be different, you can't take this away from life issues.
Humanity is a creation of God, not of science, or chance.
Leaving the definition of God aside for the moment, do you believe that you are stating an opinion or an actual, categorical fact?
I am not stating a fact, rather i am saying the truth.
"noun, plural truths [troothz, trooths] Show IPA.
1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence."
Looks to me that fact=truth and truth=fact. Therefore, you apparently are saying that your opinion is a fact and not an opinion. That kind of removes any possibility for discussion. Oh, well...
fact is disputable, truth is not in any way disputable.
Possibility intact for discussion, except you believe otherwise...by the way .
Is there anything like indisputable truth?...you will always have indisputable fact for real.....your summation or arithmetic is inconsistent with what you mean, try again.
Virtually all dictionary definitions disagree with you. What more can I say? Good luck in your endeavors.
i feel really great brother...makes a whole lot of sense to know that you can't stand what you belief.
Fact is disputable, truth is not...you have no answer to this assertion right?
glad to know that.
I was wondering how the Creationists would counter the news of the Higgs Boson. So here it is, "God gave humanity the ability to comprehend the wonders of nature".
You can say something more meaningful, Paul.
Excuse me please! God is the sum of all knowledge in the universe, and God lovingly and freely shares His knowledge with mankind.
Dave that is very true....If I may add something; the problem is the pollution of the seed line of mankind (God’s children) by the serpent (devil).
The serpentine bloodline will never have anything to do with God, they will never belief in him; they know of a surety that he is the all and all ...for the fact that blood is thicker than water, they are not from Adam or God's seed they are of the serpent through the bloodline of Cain, don’t loose this insight brother.
After they unsuccessfully tried to kill the gospel for more than 500 years during the dark ages where Christians were suppressed and killed brutally publicly...a new era is indeed what we are witnessing. Non-belief, this has failed.
The truth....what Jesus said......On this Rock (Peter) i will build my Church and the gate of hell shall not prevail against it.
We shall talk more about the serpentine bloodline later.
I'm afraid mainstream Christianity's God has been too soundly refuted to assume any understanding from that angle holds enough of a measure of truth to bother defining. However, the presumption that all things are one still holds water, by my reckoning.
So, 'God' could have made all things and be all things. 'God' as I see it. But, I would never claim truth or fact. It is simply the conclusion I have come to through observation and reflection. This opinion holds the least number of contradictions so far from every angle I've approached it.
Penny, people place God on the same page with science. They may be right in their personal assertions, but i think otherwise.
So do I. Some people like to call intelligent design. I, and many others call intelligent design a fancy word for Biblical Creation. That does not fly.
Would not "God who created all things", and 'all things that created God', be the same thing?
The truth is it is cool here. The truth is it is hot there. Which is the truth?
Life is all encompassing, it neither here nor there.
Coolness and hotness will all pass away....what you know is what you know.
What do you know?
I know it is cool here, and it is not hot except the whether changes, that does not in any way invalidate hotness.
The truth is the truth and nothing but the truth. The truth can not be equated to mean something else. It will always remain what it is.
Mesh everything together, the truth stands out unique...what do you know?
The truth for one in any given instance is not the truth for another. Of hot and cold, the truth is, the
capability of the recognition.
There is nothing like a religious joke thread. Religion was in existence before non-religion. Our generation can not change this ancient land mark. Christianity, Islam, and several other religious beliefs can not all be wrong while only one group of people claim monopoly of knowledge? How can over 2 billion Christians be wrong?
That's an interesting question. Christians don't agree on much past their common name. They disagree on the essence of God, the true meaning of the sacrifice, who Jesus is, what Jesus was, how one obtains salvation, what constitutes being a Christian, what is sin and the fate of non believers; to name a few.
Muslims, on the other hand, appear to be in agreement on more points across the board. By your logic, I would think you'd want to convert to Islam. 1.6 billion can't be wrong.
Apparently they are the fastest growing too.
Agreed, The logic here is that both religion belief in a supreme deity (God)...forget about the differences within the Christian ranks, there are also differences within Islam and other religions too....One group stands out...Non-belief, these are the people in view here.
In a nutshell....over 2 billion Christian and over 1.6 billion, Muslims making a total of 3.6 and more...are all wrong?
More than half the entire populations of mankind presently are wrong?
This is the nuance of this thread….
Emile...I am very happy for being a Christian. I wish nothing more than who i am already.
If i may add again...happy is quite decent...the real thing is that i am very glad to be a Christian.
That's all well and good; but by your logic you can't be right.
Be right about what? i am not claiming to be right concerning anything here Emile. What i mean is everyone else except the non-belief can not be wrong while only they (non-belief) are right.....
I am not only talking about Christian and Muslim, the Buddhist, Indus etc all have a belief...yes/No?
If that is what you mean then, it is OK.
It's hard to figure out what you are saying. Are you saying both believers and non believers are right?
I will make my self clear when i know those you refer to as believers and non-believers.
because Other religions apart from Christianity also believes in God though with diverse names, if that is what you refer to as believers...that's OK.
The poser is, one group is claiming monopoly of knowledge as though all others are ignorant and illiterate to believe that there is a God.
Hope we are clear here?
@felix religion existed before non religion?...believers and non believers existed together , since they began to think...coming to christians , islam etc cant be wrong...why do u assume this?...there was time when most human beings believed earth is flat...they all where wrong...so dont sell this on basis of numbers...facts is not democratic process which numbers can determine...it is fact even if 7 billion dont believe in it...
Hallelujah.....Fact and truth which one make more sense to you ?
I don't discuss base on fact...because as i told paradigm...fact are disputable....but; truth are not in any way disputable.
We have indisputable fact....have you ever come across indisputable truth?
The same way that an entire civilization knew the "truth" that the world was flat.
Was it about God or non-belief?
Who was responsible for that?.
Christians are focus people, with love and passion for God's creation.
Ignorant made people to belief that, the same way it is making people nowadays to belief there is no God.
Ignorance was responsible for that.
The funny thing about ignorance is that the ignorant don't know they are ignorant. If a whole group of people is similarly ignorant it just takes longer for them to realize it.
Providing it was a real humorous joke. This isn't so much funny as much as it is amusing for other reasons.
Really? Just people "thought" a G/god existed before "Religion" was officially found is completely irrelevant.
And people of this generation don't want to change this ancient land mark, but would rather people not live in the past, and try living in the present. Something YOU fail to do.
Felixedet, humans on Earth are the only ones who can make use of the knowledge WE gain. No group has a specific entitlement to anything.
Really? Just because 2 billion people believe similar or same things, doesn't MAKE IT TRUE. Duh! If those two billion people believe something else...whatever that is....would you also believe it? Or would you then rebel?
Do try to use your brain. Posts like the one I just responded only shows ineptitude to think straight.
Cagsil.....when you talk about me using my head or should i say try to use my brain...and your last statement, you are only trying to bring in diversion and emotional ranting on my part, because for all i know, i am as certain in my belief as much as you are about yours too....Are we not free to express our self any longer?
If I conform to your ideals, i am no longer Felix, period. But we can mutually respect one another if you don’t mind.
This makes it all the more important for us to respect each others opinion or mindset in accordance with the rules of hub-pages forum....trying to use my head is a direct statement on my personality and i will not response with the same to you at all.
If you think i am not using my brain, what makes you think i am not using my brain?
What i belief is not what you belief....and will never ever be the same. I will not response directly in the tone you want. I am more than smart for any mortal to toss around dude.
Another way i can look at your statement and may be that's exactly what you mean is that' you seems to have sympathy for someone who doesn't need any. My belief have been personally tested and proven to be very true and precise. No short cut, no ambiguity and no contradiction whatsoever.....
However i am not alone in this belief for your information, there are as many learned people and even more in theism than there is in Atheism.
All along, I have made myself known to you through threads like this brother ;and I have come to know you even more through your responses…..unless you think we are done, but as it were Cag….Change remains while every other thing changes…..You can not change God’s perception in the mind and hearts of people….no one can.
I love and admired your logic so much, one thing I hold against you personally if you don’t mind is why you hate God?
May be it is mortals like myself and others that are partly responsible, making you to speak the way you do against him, or simply because we are short sighted and myopic in your page. It’s all good.
If my last statement is wrong, then you can feel free to slam me for all you want, I am not God or God’s spokesman, I am only but his servant, who love him and want others to know that he loves them…before you tell me that my action says otherwise Cag. I am not mean, I am not wicked, I love and help those I can in this wicked world of ours……I wrote this thread specifically because of you brother. We still have a long way to go, this is straight from my heart Cag.
Sure, you can express yourself as much as you like. And when you sound foolish, people reserve the right to say you sound foolish. As for you certain about your beliefs as per I am in my beliefs? Makes you sound even more foolish, considering I hold very few beliefs if any at all. I don't require them because I know they are nothing more than ego driven based beliefs and I rather not let my ego rule my life, unlike you.
Actually, if you conformed to my ideals? Is completely foolish in and of itself. Everyone takes a piece of something away from each person because each person is a student and a teacher all rolled into one. You wouldn't no longer be you. You would adapt, incorporate(use and discern) what is being said, instead of your using your ego to tell you you are right.
I will not respect someone just be they expect respect. That's ego. I deal with irrationality in people's thoughts, actions and speech. Not to mention, if you took the time to read what is written in the context it is written, instead of you always "interpreting" things which are not said, you might be better off.
Oh, so you're now trying to tell the person who was honored with the Hubbie Award of the Most Likely to Get Banned from the Forums, about the rules of the forums? Not to mention, I'm presently the Forums' reign Hubbie Awarded King of the Forums. I think you should go re-read the forum rules yourself and put them into proper context instead of assuming your egotistical context is what it actually says.
I asked you to use your brain properly because presently you're making yourself look like a fool. I'm not saying you are one, but what your actions are appearing to others as.
Because there's no a lick of common sense in most of your statements about your beliefs.
I'm sure it is not. However, when you open your mouth is where it matters. Yet, you fail to learn this most basic concept.
That's fine too. I wouldn't you to be the same as me because you are you're own unique person. How you affect people and how you effect society is something you fail to see. Thus, I will continue to point out your ego driven actions, so you can learn to recognize when your ego is getting in the way of your supposed truth.
Any response shows you've learned nothing, so did doesn't really matter what "tone" you use.
Really? You've yet to prove that statement true or make it any sort of truth.
Actually, that's not it at all.
No. The only thing you did was to attribute something to something else because it made you feel better but fail to realize it was your own actions which created your situation in the first place.
Yes, I know, that's all many of the learned masses has learned not to disturb the thinking of the masses who believe. So they will not have to the fight the power of the Church or the G/god followers. They can work in peace and you wouldn't know if they were liars or otherwise. So please.
Yes and that's why I am responding to this post in the manner in which I am. Life is ever changing and that also means that your beliefs should change, yet you solidify them and go against your own life. How odd? You fight human nature and life yet fail to see it.
I'm not trying to.
See, this is a bad perception on your part. I cannot hate something which doesn't exist. It's absurd to think I could.
Short sighted, narrow minded and closed minded are what most religious are to start off with. That's the problem many other people have with you and people like you.
That depends on what you know, not who you know. It's a shame you don't see how you damage people.
Yes, I got that. But as a servant of YOUR G/god, you become the spokesperson for said G/god. Whenever you utter anything about it or what it wants, you fail to keep your own personal relationship with it, personal. Again, it's a shame you don't see or understand common sense.
Really? You consider the world wicked? That's part of the problem. You've no faith where it belongs, in humankind.
Really? Good to know. Your true character shows and speaks volumes.
Again, not using the brain as you should. What a shame.
I knew it wouldn't be long before the creationists respond to the Higgs Boson. They can't handle the truth!
@paul its not their fault...they have been programmed believing in some stories sold as truth...now it would be really fearing to c those stories falling apart...
Only a house without a foundation will fall....non-belief is void and empty. Too bad for those who are inside this dilapidated bungalow.
@pisean There were at time when in order to explain one's surroundings, the idea of gods and creation stories were told. Biblical stories aren't the only ones around. A Catholic Priest (can't think of his name at the moment) explained that the stories found in the Bible were created thousands of years ago. Modern science has only been around for the last 600 years. Compairing the two is like compairing apples and oranges. But if you attend a Cathoic school now, you'll be taught evolution and the Big Bang. The Vatican stresses not ot take the stories in the Bible literally.
Are you 100% certain i am not a Catholic? Do you believe in the teachings of the Vatican? Or you are simply interested in the ''not to take the Bible stories literally''?
Brother, the Bible is not a story book...there a lot of stories book around the world....events in the Bible convey so many morals that the world need.
I must congratulate you for at least keeping tabs on the happenings in the Vatican though....there are so many Bibles there bro..
Is there any other book that is more important in that city than the Bible?
If no...watch what you are saying, you don't know who is at your back.
The Bible convey so many so-called morals that the world dosen't need. There's quite a few that will get you 20 years to life these days.
Actually, if you remove all the death threats, so-call "morals" that will get you a hefty prison sentence or killed, and any other irrelevant nonsense that don't pertain to life in the 21st Century, the Bible would consists of a couple pages. Why, in this day and age, does a person need to follow the guidance of a book written over 1700 years ago? As if people can't figure out that stealing and murder is wrong by themselves.
Are you evangelizing for God or for Satan Paul? Jesus specifically change ''Saul's'' name to ''Paul'' .Who are you?
Actually that guy persecuted Christian more than what you can achieve with this empty mission of yours even in the next 1000 years...his name was Paul the Apostle of the gentile.
Are you for God or against God Paul?
What you are ranting now, will be obsolete very soon, will that invalidate the truth or whatever of what you are talking about?
Or you said what you said simply because you are dancing to the gallery? Just to impress your colleagues (like minded folks)....Do you belief in magic and sorcery? Witch crafty etc?
Is there anyone who is a witch or a magician in this world? If yes, explain this a little bit please…I want to learn from you teacher…
I call you that because your name sake, the Paul that the whole world knows better than you, was indeed a great teacher for Christ…whom have you identify yourself with?
God or Satan?
Answers like…neither..Will be very childish and a systematic way of avoiding the question Paul…I’m waiting, though I know I might have to wait for eternity…don’t be deceive brother….i ‘m all ears.
I know very well that you know that God exist and the devils exist...i am not a pet to be brainwashed with stuffs like ‘’how do i want to discuss a non-existing entities with someone who doesn't believe they exist in the first place’’...you know they exist and I know you know that very well...of a truth you do.
The bad idea is you want others not to believe what you know....mind my words..’’What you know’’...and not what you belief.
Paul...this is the first time a non-creationist is making a statement base on something that is alien to his non-belief. There is nothing like truth in your page.....don't mimic me brother.
Cag, in all honesty i am glad to know that i sound foolish to believe there is God. I will never be ashamed of the gospel brother. You have only suceeded in repeating what i said about myself earlier on. God, theism and beliefs are all foolishness in your page; bravo, for the award. Argument championp, isn't this rightly the main reason you care more about mundane things? I care about what you don't know, which i know better than you. Look brother, from your tone i dicern so much. That's why i see you as a brother that need salvation. I am not ashame and will never be as long as people like you exist. You only make sense to like-minded folks, i'll keep on praying for you not at your request though. Don't be upset with that resolve 'cause there is nothing you can do about that. I will never be done with you brother, this is just the beginning Cag, one day you will come to your real senses. You have no idea of whom you are against. This fog will leave you one day in Jesus name: amen.
Thank you, but I do know when to be a student and when to be a teacher. It's a shame you cannot tell the difference.
I will never be ashamed of talking about God at all. You just have to understand me base on that. I love God so much. I will not be ashamed of identifying with him in this world.
You fail to understand my perception while i understand yours very well. If i am asked who i am, the first response will be, i am a Christian. Some people may be offended by that. Some might take it to mean arrogance and pride while others may see it as something else......Are you a believer or a non-believer?
Atheist or Theist?
I am sure you know you can not claim a vacuum here brother, because it doesn't exist when faith or religious orientation is the central focus. Every human being believes in something or in nothing, it is all a belief.
Your ideals in life are just the same like every other person, love, passion and may be so many more....it's the simplest things inherent in human nature. The level of awareness and exposure makes the difference between one person and the other.
See me base on what i stand for with an open heart and open mind. What we are talking about most of the time are very sensitive issues which have a way of influencing many people positively or negatively.
Are you a Christian turn Atheist or purely an atheist?....Are you neither atheist nor a Christian?
Are you both?
Do you have faith in God or have faith in humans?
Does life means more to you other than birth and death?
Do you live a life filled with hope of what you can achieve in this life or what you can achieve when you die?
What are those things that matters most to you in this world?
When you counsel people, I don’t know if you do; but I feel you do. Forgive me if I am wrong with this notion. If you come across someone who happens to have a spiritual problem, what will be your likely response to that fellow?
Do you belief in spirituality or materiality?......Don’t be offended with these questions Cag. These are genuine and honest questions from a brother, hope you won’t mind responding accordingly?
Yeah, I get that.
I'm sure, your ego won't allow for anything else.
Actually, you don't understand anything about me or my position, because if you had, then you would try to take the higher moral ground, and yet you've not done so. Why? Because, there's no higher moral ground than exactly as I have laid them out in my articles on HubPages.
Figures as much.
Yes, some might.
Neither. I hold no such belief and find there's no need for such belief.
Faith or religious orientation is part and parcel of the problem with people like you. You lack understanding of your own life. That's the real shame you walk around with, but never noticing it.
I'm sure you have no complete understanding of my ideals. You cannot. Why not? You've yet to learn to see past your ego.
Yes, I know. You didn't need to tell me and it's a shame yet again you have a low awareness level.
Are you having fun lying to yourself? Open mind? When your actions speak to the opposite being true- closed mind.
And people like yourself seriously need a wake up call, so you can join the 22nd century, much less join the 21st century.
I was born and raised Catholic, made communion and confirmation, over and done by age 17. At the age of 22 I dropped the belief because it no longer was needed.
I'm not sure what this question is about.
What G/god? and Yes I do have faith in Humanity.
My life is about me. Life is valued. Birth is beginning. Death is end. To put any more thought into is irrational.
My life always has hope. I don't hope for things to happen such as achievements in my life. I take the effort to achieve the goals I set. As for achieving anything "after" or "at" death, is irrelevant. I don't give it any more thought than that of the above statement.
What difference does it matter considering it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Counsel people? If you're asking if people come to me and talk, then yes I do.
You're not wrong in the notion.
A "spiritual" problem? How I handle it is none of your business and secondly, what in the world would make you ask me what I would say to them. That would be a conversation done in private communications between them and myself.
No need to believe in either. Both are ego based.
You know, this is a perfect example of you never reading posts thoroughly. I don't get offended and YOU cannot offend me.
Very good, you make so much sense now. Spirituality and materiality is both ego base from your response; these two, stands out among the various responses Cag...virtually all the questions are summed up in these two factors.
That's the difference between you and i. I have a focus and that focus is spirit base…I’m I not allowed to share my feelings with fellow brethren in the world without being crucified again the way Jesus was?
Change is not about the century we found ourselves in, ‘cause that too will soon change and is rightly changing every micro-second.
The reality about life is that we are all in a journey and these lives we are all living will soon leave us behind. It’s either you look beyond it(discerning-spirituality) or fixed(material-carnality) all your gazed in it thinking it’s all you have….i have more than what meet the eyes. These are my real ego according to what you term ‘’ego’’.
Arrogance about what? religion?.....In your page, religious talk should be outlawed right? Bravo..You make so much sense man.
I bet you will tell everyone that Jesus never existed in this world at all.....this is humility in your page.
There is nothing Satan and his human agents in this world can do about the gospel of truth, of light and salvation to humanity.
Messages like this are to strengthen the weak brethren who have been brainwashed by evil and demonic doctrines that is everywhere on the internet......You know who i am? You can consult your oracle to find out.
You guys have made Christians to be full of fear and timidity because they know not what to expect from people like you...who will never have any thing to do with God and his son Jesus.
I am not speaking to you, but i am directly talking to the one who sent you.....tell him this is not arrogance, but the word of life, the word of God, the word of the Word…if you don’t understand, he will; because he(Satan) knows the Word(Jesus) better than all of you.
Somehow I think it would be a cruelty to entertain this level of instability by validating it with a serious response. Please consider getting some help, you are coming across as paranoid schizophrenic. Demons are NOT around every corner trying to get you.
i never attributed that sort of power to them in the first instance.....don't be too fast in that.
You have no response to those assertions and that's quite understandable....Things of God are foolishness to a carnal mind.
why not take it upon your self ..if you truly care man?
You know what?......things will never ever be the same as it were again.
Propagate what you know and belief, while i do the same about what i belief.
Call my belief names and yours is no way better....that's if you have anything like a belief anyway.
Who are you responding to? It looks like you are responding to yourself (having a conversation with your self) but are making no sense, not to me anyway.
Never mind that... Just the easiest way to know what matters to you..You did exactly the same thing you are pointing out...This thread is a wake up call. There is no iota of arrogance in it. Why wouldn't you want to hear me out before classifying it with your thought?
What can be more arrogance than that?
I had a conversation with myself? When did that happen???
Where is your authority?
What makes you different from the mental patient or the con man making claims of a God?
If you were humble and lacking in all arrogance you would not shy away from proving your authority and trustworthiness that your beliefs should be treated as anything more then the beliefs of a single individual.
I don't trust the bible, why would I trust you? You lack the humility to see that you look no different then a con man to someone like me.
What assertions? All I read in your previous post was a wave of demon paranoia.
I stated a few days ago that this thread shows typical religious arrogance (that puts humans at the centre of God's creation as his ultimate creations, can't think of anything MORE arrogant). You respond with some paranoid rant about demons and I respond with serious questions about the mental health of someone who would seriously post a paranoid rant like that. You respond saying I didn't respond to your assertions, but you haven't actually asked me about anything to which I could respond.
Can we talk better now Kirstenblog?
Why did you call this religious arrogance?
I called this thread religious arrogance simply because it states right at the start that God exists as a matter of fact, not as a matter of faith. To anyone that does not believe there is a God this insistence that there is a God without any actual proof isn't an invitation to a discussion, but an invitation to a fight.
I also see/read a lot of those who most loudly shout about how God exists totally dismiss how people live their lives and focus solely on what people believe, which I find very dangerous.
Through out this thread I have gotten the message from you that you believe that a persons beliefs are far more important then their actions. That actions are matters of the flesh and God is not concerned with those, only with what you believe in (that being a matter of the spirit). This sort of logic supports the idea that a pedo priest is in better standing with this God you claim exists the a non-pedo atheist, and thats just messed up.
Ultimately, a belief in God does not make a person a good person, if it did then the churches of the world would not be full of the greedy, deceitful, lazy, and corrupt, now and through out history. Look at the wealth of the churches of this world and you see the corruption of the churches of this world. This happens because religion allows us to discount our actions as unimportant in favour of unverifiable claimed beliefs. Many a con man has claimed to believe in God for personal and physical gains.
So to summarise,
Claim the existence of God as a matter of fact not faith (strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof-from the dictionary), and that is arrogant as you cannot prove your claim to me.
Choose to dismiss the request that you prove you have the authority to make the claims you are making and instead insult them with the most polite words you have, its still arrogant.
Thing is, you cannot go around making claims you cannot prove you have the authority to make and then be surprised when people don't agree with your claims and question the very way you go about making those claims. How you ask something is just as important as what you ask.
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As a Christian Can I Read The Book “Christianity Opium Or Truth?” By David Gooding?
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