I didn't know hubs could be like this--please comment.

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  1. Missing Link profile image70
    Missing Linkposted 13 years ago

    I was under the impression that hubs had to be informational but have learned otherwise during the past few days.  I'm actually glad about what I learned tonight and in no way am I denigrating any hub style.  "Informational" is not the right word I feel.....but I can't think of a better one at the moment.

    I've seen a number of hubs over the past few days of poetry, kinda sorta blog/diary like hubs, some stream of consciousness hubs, etc.

    Please comment per my recent findings/discovery compared with how I thought things were meant to be.

    I'm glad because I had kinda run out of ideas per hubs....but I have lots of old poems and other types of stuff similar to the aforementioned etc, etc. that I can pull out of archives and add.

    I have lots of stuff that I put on paper long ago and/or that I converted to disc long ago----


  2. profile image0
    Website Examinerposted 13 years ago

    Perhaps the confusion stems from the fact that "purely personal content" can be seen as sub-standard, and thus subject to removal. It is a bit unclear what this concept actually means; however, a recent example showed that this rule was used by HubPages to remove an angry rant by a Hubber against another person. So we should think of the motive, rather than the expression. If the motive is solely to vent one's feelings towards someone else, then that would be considered purely personal. If the motive is to write about a personal topic of some general interest, that would presumably be acceptable.

    The Terms of Service prohibit a few select topics. Other than that, there really aren't any norms. Certainly, hubs do not have to be informational in nature. There is lots of poetry and intellectual reflection on the site. When writing poetry, it is advisable to add images and to have well over 200 words, for example by including an introduction or by combining several poems in one article.

    Whether or not it is a good idea to combine poetry with, say, hubs that promote Viagra and other forms of medication, is a matter of taste. Some might prefer to set up a separate account.

    1. Missing Link profile image70
      Missing Linkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Coming from a person who attacks other peoples' children here on hubpages all you say or ever could say is null and void and always will be.

      1. profile image0
        Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I find that to be a bizarre misrepresentation of what I have said. Here are the links, so anyone can see for themselves:



        1. Missing Link profile image70
          Missing Linkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          please just leave me alone, you have a lack of insight regarding what you said about my children, you were cruel and insensitive in your remarks, you have indirectly attacked some of my hubs also, you are my first negative experience here on hubpages and are no doubt getting off on this, please just leave me alone

          1. Shadesbreath profile image77
            Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            For whatever this is worth, Missing Link, I've been around HP for a while, seen a lot of mean people and trolls and lots of negative things on the forums.  While I can totally see why it could hurt your feelings to have the pictures of your kids critiqued, I can tell you with pretty high confidence, Website Examiner wasn't attacking or trying to get off on making you feel bad.

            If you have a look at W.E.'s posts and hubs, you'll see a lot of literary criticism type writing and an editorial type of approach to things.  I am a creative writer, my stuff tends to come from my guts, if you will, and I know that sometimes a level-headed and even cold seeming analysis of my work from someone else can really rub wrong.  Sometimes critics and editors are very involved in the analysis of the mechanisms of the piece, like mechanics looking at machinery or something, and therefore, the comments they make can FEEL like they were meant mean, even though they weren't INTENDED to be mean, only informative.  You know, like, "Hey, your fuel injector is shot and your engine performance sucks"  or "Hey, this avatar is not optimized, people won't respond."

            I really believe that is what happened with W.E's comments.  I know that won't change how you felt when you read the comments, and I'm not saying it even makes the opinion of your kid-based avatar correct.  But I hate to think of you having such a negative experience on your mind when, I think in the greater scheme of things it was an honest misunderstanding.  You're both nice-seeming folks, so I thought I'd butt in.

            1. profile image0
              DoorMattnomoreposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I second this. Reading type often is harder because there is only smile and lol no real body language and all that. Im a mom, and I can toatlly get where your coming from ML, I would be super mad if someone said mean things about my kids. BUT I've "known" WE for a bit, and Im sure it was not intended as a personal attack on your kids.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                And I would certainly "third" it.  I, too, sometimes have a hard time communicating well in the forums and have occasionally taken offense where none was intended.  It is easy to do, believe me, but I cannot think that WE had any offense in mind when his posts were made.  They were an attempt to help, not hurt.

          2. darkside profile image68
            darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The deep end. You've gone off it.

            And drumming up all this drama and then accusing Website Examiner of "getting off" on it.

            Honestly, having a picture of your kids and the username "Missing Link". What are you thinking?

      2. Marisa Wright profile image88
        Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Don't be rude. I just read WE's post - he didn't "attack" your children,just suggested they weren't the best choice for an avatar.  And as others have said, that has nothing to do with how cute they are. 

        Personally I would be very careful about using children in an avatar or to illustrate any Hub.  You never know who is looking at them.

  3. TerryGl profile image57
    TerryGlposted 13 years ago

    Interesting point you have there.

    In my neighbourhood there are quite a few elderly living here. I asked them when they search on the internet what they were looking for. The answer:


    They may not be happy clickers like teenagers, but they are still a targeted audience. I now see poetry hubs, not that I have any, as a sweet spot in the niche market.

  4. profile image0
    ralwusposted 13 years ago

    Mine are packed with all kinds of info, fun stuff. You'd be surprised. wink

  5. thisisoli profile image72
    thisisoliposted 13 years ago

    It depends what you are here for, you can write in blog form here, but dont expect to make much cash tongue

    1. Garrett Mickley profile image68
      Garrett Mickleyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Oli's right on the money here (as he usually is).

      Though Terry above said, there is a niche for poetry.

      Now, if only you could figure out a way to optimize your Poems without sacrificing artistic integrity...

  6. Richard Craig profile image59
    Richard Craigposted 13 years ago

    I came to this site to publish poetry.  Read some if you want, it's for the people.

  7. I am DB Cooper profile image64
    I am DB Cooperposted 13 years ago

    I think it's great that poetry is an allowed form of content. It gives something to the reader that a rant or personal attack cannot.

  8. profile image0
    Website Examinerposted 13 years ago

    Thanks Shadesbreath and DoorMattnomore, I am much obliged to the two of you.

  9. sunforged profile image71
    sunforgedposted 13 years ago


    View at EasyCaptures.com

    In attempt to illustrate the basic truth of WE's observation. Take a peek at what your profile page looks like - see when your Avatar is associated with some of your writing as the Thumbnail.

    Dry eye in Dogs, Tourettes Syndrome - Are these the titles that you really want associated with pictures of your most loved ones.

    These are the images that will be auto-associated with those articles should anyone choose to share or digg offsite.

    As someone who is more likely to think of an Avatar as part of the overall effect of your presentation - I would see your picture and and expect you to see and read parenting topics , child development etc.

    Some topics might seem a bit odd if they were capped off with pictures of small children - if your writing cant be pigeonholed easily into a topic that can be easily represented Graphically then a nice general image that seems professional is a good idea such as a picture of the Author.

    I think WE has just shown one way your image can be interpreted by a non-involved third party, which is a good way of thinking when your considering your content and presentation to random searchers who arrive.

  10. profile image0
    Website Examinerposted 13 years ago

    Thank you Wilderness, Darkness and Sunforged - I really do appreciate your concern and thoughts on the matter.

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks aren't necessary, WE.  I can't imagine you of all people, being guilty of the charges insinuated.

      In addition, you, sunforged and Darkside have made some good points.  I picked my own avatar long ago and my writing does not match at all now.  Although I love the pic, I'm going to work on changing it to something more appropriate.

      Missing Links hub title about Tourette's syndrome alongside a photo of the children shows what can happen, and it could happen to me, too.

      1. darkside profile image68
        darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        "Recommended Electrician Hand Tools for the Apprentice..."

        Come now! That child is far too young to be an apprentice!

        1. Shadesbreath profile image77
          Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          How do you know?  Doogie Howser was doing appendectomies at that age.

        2. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Well, I was thinking next year, but might have to wait just a little longer...On the other hand, you should see him with a pair of wire cutters!

  11. Lisa HW profile image63
    Lisa HWposted 13 years ago

    In response to Missing Link's question about what Hubs are supposed to be - generally, it's said they're supposed to be "magazine style articles" that are informative or useful.  Creative writing is allowed, but it's generally understood that creative writing will have trouble earning the way articles about stuff people search for are more likely to earn.  Some people write because they enjoy it and want other Hubbers to read it.  They don't care about earning.

    Rants about what a jerk your husband is are purely personal, and that stuff isn't supposed to be on here.

    I have a bunch of Hubs, though, that I wrote when I first signed up, and I would just go to "requests" (now "questions") if I thought I could think up a decent answer.  Those Hubs are kind of strange (and I've deleted some, but not all) because they were things like, "If my two-year calls my boyfriend, 'Daddy', but only on Saturdays, and only if I'm wearing a blue shirt."  (Not quite that bad, but you get the idea.)  I'd sometimes try to come up with some answer (not realizing I shouldn't have even bothered), so I have some Hubs that may have been useful to whoever asked the question - but aren't useful to pretty much anybody else.  Nobody is likely to search that type of thing either.

    Less ridiculous (at least in some ways, or at least to me) than that kind of Hub can be a kind of combo, personal-experience/what I learned/what may help you" kind of thing.  An example might be "learning from life experiences" (I actually have such a Hub.)  People do search for that kind of thing, and what's out there might be "clinical" type stuff or else "the usual" philosophical, but not personal stuff.  Some of those have personal experience, but my thinking was that I was sharing what I learned from experience.  Some magazines do have "essay" articles or first-person-experience articles, and I've written some of those Hubs (usually based on a question in the "questions" section), because I thought, maybe, my personal experience and what I "think I've learned" in life, may actually be useful to someone.  Some of those do reasonably well traffic-wise because people search for things like, "moving on after the loss of a loved one".   I actually have duplicate content on some of those, and they do really well score-wise and/or traffic-wise.  My thinking has been that people don't always want the a re-worked version of what they research on the web, maybe particularly when it comes to matters of emotion.  I guess that's where the "unique" content aspect we hear about on HubPages may come in.

    The only reason I'll write that kind of thing from a first-person point-of-view is I want people to know where my ideas are coming from - not an expert, and not research (although I may include some research too).

    Generally, "how-to"  type of articles, or articles that are out-and-out useful (and about something people search for) are the ones that do best.  I have a math article that does fairly well, and it's far from great writing.  It just offers tips.  People search for them.

    Sometimes I just don't feel like worrying about what anyone will be searching for or whether an article is likely to earn.  I don't write "what a jerk my husband is" kind of Hubs, but I'll indulge in some personal experience that, maybe, I think people will understand better (on a broader scale), as if I were having a conversation with them and sharing what I've seen for myself.  Those don't do well, but then again if I'm in that mood I don't worry about creating a good title and using keywords either.   hmm

    We often hear "magazine style" (and magazine style can cover a lot of territory) but not with a title that hopes to catch the eye of someone browsing through a print publication; and, instead, with a title that will catch the "eye" of the search engines.

    Product Hubs aren't the only ones that do well (although they do well).  I guess, maybe, the difference with the "general Hubs" is that nobody would really pick up a magazine and read about Susie's jerk of a husband.  On the other hand, if Susie is the survivor of a physically abusive marriage, writes about things like signs her husband showed of becoming abusive, how she got out, etc.; and then adds more information (like resources, research, references, etc.), Susie's article becomes useful (and unique).  Non-product/how-to Hubs can earn.  It may or may not take more of them, depending on things like title and keywords and how often people search for that subject.

    I have a big, personal-experience story I wanted to tell, and I wanted to tell it from a politics/social issues kind of angle.  In order to tell it, I first had to get out the personal experience (which was eye-opening and something only someone who has been through it would even know about).  I started writing a series of Hubs, thinking I'd first get out the story as a "base" and later make the whole social-issues angle be more "general-population focused".   That whole project is just too big for a series of Hubs even, so I took the whole business down and decided to do something different.    For months, though, I had a bunch of Hubs that essentially looked like nothing but a personal story (and that's what they were because I couldn't get the social-issues/politics angle out fast enough to make my main aim even obvious).  hmm

    I guess I haven't really said what Hubs are supposed to be (based on what I understand).  I more explained why you see some of the Hubs you do.

  12. Flightkeeper profile image67
    Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago

    Your hubs can be about anything as long as it's something that is not objectionable to Google - because Google's the one who pays us.  So you can't really write about sex or murder -- you know.  Poems, opinion pieces, fiction -- you'll find them here.

    As for your Avatar, I say keep it. I think it's a nice picture and your kids look cute. Don't worry about what anybody says about it.  If you like it, keep it up. I read WE's comments and I thought it was unnecessary for him to write "Who would want to follow your kids?" It is insensitive but you'll get that in the forums anyway.

    1. profile image0
      Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I did not mean the kids would not be worth following. I meant that hubbers follow other hubbers, not other hubbers' kids.

      1. Flightkeeper profile image67
        Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Then if that's how you meant it, I apologize for calling you insensitive.  It didn't read right.  You might want to clarify that.

        1. profile image0
          Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          What I wrote on that thread should be read in the context of the topic: "How do I get more followers?" I do not think using children as profile images is necessarily effective in that regard. For me, it was all about the PR aspects - is it working or not? My personal feeling was that it wasn't working, and that was what I tried to convey. I can't make it any clearer, I think.

          1. Flightkeeper profile image67
            Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Sometimes WE it's not about making it clearer.  You were advising a mother and you seemed to be attacking a picture of her children.

            I honestly don't think avatars will influence who follows you or not, ultimately it's the quality of the hubs and the number of hubs.  One of the most successful hubbers, Lily Rose, has a picture of herself and two kids, I thought it was very nice.

            1. profile image0
              Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              As you may know, PR work oftentimes involves extensive surveys, where hundreds or even thousands of people are being polled and queried about their preferences. It is a matter of taste. By gathering data and using statistics, the marketer will have a clear picture of what people like.

              I do not have at my disposal such a research department that I can pull up at a moment's notice. All I have - and all I offered - was my subjective impression and opinion of that image. In my second post on that other thread, I also did emphasize that I might be the only person to perceive it that way, or I might not be.

              I dare not elaborate on my thoughts about the picture. I would have more to say on the subject, but have been instructed to leave the OP alone. I hope this helps.

  13. mega1 profile image79
    mega1posted 13 years ago

    reading this thread is certainly entertaining!  hmmmmm. . . poems and viagra  hmmmmmmmmmm   and how do you feel about kittens on avatar pics?  too revealing?  just having so much fun!!  lol

  14. Missing Link profile image70
    Missing Linkposted 13 years ago

    The term trance, as wikipedia confirms "has a parallel history of negative associations and connotations".  That term was directed at my one year old by WE.  A few other comments were offensive as well.  For those who can't see that it is uncool to say negative things about another hubber's children--five and one year old in my case---if you can't see that ok I don't know what to say.

    I am active in many forums and one sacred rule that I will never violate is I NEVER go so low as to say negative things about someone's family members i.e. I will never ever say anything bad about your wife, mother, kids, etc.

    So, if defending my kids means I've gone off the deep end as another poster said, I'll go off the deep end for my kids each and every time.

    It is true though that I thought WE was referring initially to the primary profile photo of my kids---I didn't know initially he was also referring to the picture of my kids by individual hubs.  I did not do that purposely.  The system automatically sucked my profile picture to set beside those hubs.  I will look into trying to fix that in the future. 

    As for the primary photo of my kids...for those who find that inappropriate or somehow disturbing, that is your problem.  I'll defend them anytime, anywhere, anyday.  Why not go find avatars of other posters---those who have a child or a cute little puppy dog or kitten and harangue them too?

    I'm not saying anymore about this as I also realize I have fed the troll/fire starter to some extent on this.  1-2 of you definitely have gotten off on this.

    1. mega1 profile image79
      mega1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      your kids are darling kids.  Lots of people have pics of their kids on their avatar pic. Pics of their puppies and kittens and other cute things too!  Sometimes things sound worse than they were intended, that's for sure.  It's unfortunate the way the photo looks next to some of your hub titles - that I would fix, for sure.  But I am so sure WE didn't intend to hurt you or your kids, and so no need to prolong the dispute is there?

    2. alternate poet profile image66
      alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You have been given sensible advice backed up by illustrations of what your avatar looks like in context by some of the best qualified people on Hubpages. You are confusing criticism of your avatar with criticism of your kids.  NOBODY is making comments about your kids, only about your possibly innapropriate avatar.  Get over yourself and accept the advice and change the avatar and do a hub about your wonderful kids instead, only don't include too many pics or give any personal information.  Incidentally, without the photo's and personal information you probably won't have much to make a hub about that is much different to all the other wonderful kids.

      Take the advice you have been given and change the picture.

    3. Rafini profile image69
      Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      (please excuse me, but I gotta step in here)

      1.  Wikipedia is a poor source to cite.  There are other more suitable sources on the Web to utilize.
      2.  I haven't seen anyone intentionally saying negative things about your kids.  WE was merely suggesting you change your avatar since it is, occasionally, associated with non-flattering hub titles. (is that what you really want people to think of your kids?  When they see a photo of your kids next to the words Tourrettes Syndrome, or whatever else)
      3.  To each their own.  If you want to keep your current avatar, do so.  It's nobody's business but yours.
      4.  I see no reason for you to be defending your kids right now.  They haven't been attacked, you only perceive an attack.
      5.  Darkside saying you went off the deep end - his way of saying he felt your response to WE was unjustified.
      6.  This is a public forum.  Anyone can come in and post a response.  If you don't appreciate someone's contribution, ignore it because you can't control it.
      7.  Why try to start something by accusing people of 'getting off' on the drama you created? 
      8.  I agree with Darkside - the photo of your kids with the name Missing Link, along with the photos next to some of the the hub titles, what were you thinking?  It appears to me as a set up for this drama in the forums......

      Enough said, by me.

    4. darkside profile image68
      darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You've got some major issues with all your "getting off on this" remarks.

      Go do a Google Image Search for missing link. I'd never want my kids to be associated with or be an illustration of the 'missing link'.

    5. profile image0
      ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I suggest that leaving this alone is a wise move.

      Two years, 427 hubs, and over 4000 forum posts gives me enough experience to categorically state that Website Examiner is neither a troll or a fire starter.

      W.E. is actually very well respected and is respected as a CRITIC. Please remember this and move on.

  15. sunforged profile image71
    sunforgedposted 13 years ago

    To correct the problem with the illustration/screenshot I gave you, you just need to upload any single picture to the hub - you could even stick it below the comments - if no image is present your Avatar Image is used as the default.

    Regardless of what the content of your current avatar is, I was also trying to show you how picking an image that is more relevant to your subject matter may have a positive effect on your presentation.

    I still think WE was just giving you a personal analysis (an examination, perhaps)of an image and how it effected him as a viewer, without any intent to irritate, its a shame it was taken any other way  because it was  valid and honest impression given to you in the spirit of helpfulness.

    as for "trance" - dream, rapture and ecstasy are also valid synonyms, in context it is not negative or inappropriate.

  16. J@ps profile image58
    J@psposted 13 years ago

    They can be anything you want them to be.
    But even if you have the freedom to do that, most times that is not always the best thing to do.

    As one hubber said, hubs are best described by what it shouldn't be...

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Underpaid-In-Be … rt-Earning

    Not a blogsite, not a poem factory, not a photosharing site, not a social networking site, not this and that, but if you want them to be... why not, its your hub.

  17. Randy Godwin profile image60
    Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago

    Gotta back WE on this one!


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