Natural Disaster or Will of God?

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   A Troubled Manposted 12 years ago

   Why would God create such a hostile environment for humans such as the Earth? There are all kinds of natural disasters; earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc, that in the last decade alone have accounted for hundreds of thousands of deaths. Why couldn't God have created a safer Earth for humans?

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      pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      @atm i m sure u havent read any of holy books....

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Is that your answer?

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            pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            your answer lies in holy books..god loves thrills and struggle of humans....at times god kills everyone by flood , at times he kills few with plagues....bit of sadist approach...and so ur answer lies in holybooks...

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               God kills people whenever He wants according to holy books.

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                  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  @atm exactly...that is god's favorite hobby...

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     What's interesting in the fable of Gods wrath is that in order for folks to behave, God has removed the responsibility of vengeance...
                     
                     Romans 12:19 - "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
                     
                     Unfortunately, this does not teach people anything because it does not explain logically and rationally why vengeance is not moral, but instead, God takes the burden of vengeance in order to mete out his wrath upon them. In other words, the Bible is still teaching vengeance as opposed to explaining why people should not seek vengeance. People are still of the mind their vengeance will be exacted, all in good time.

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      lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      @atm, I'm sure at this point you don't want a real answer.
      
      So, this answer is for someone else who might appreciate it.
      
      God doesn't care about Homo sapiens. It's only a tool for the rescue of His children.
      
      Genesis 1:26 tells us that God created "man" in His image and likeness. This isn't Homo sapiens, because God is not Homo sapiens. God is a non-physical, spiritual and immortal (more accurately, timeless) source of creation. And that's what the true self really is (soul, spirit, Holy Ghost, within).
      
      Death is part of the Homo sapiens existence -- what Buddha called, "samsara" (suffering).
      
      The goal is to leave samsara. That requires an end to ego (the false self we usually use). It has taken me 60 years to understand this, so I don't expect a skeptic to understand any of this. Only someone who is searching.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         But, that wasn't an answer to the question.

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         Sarra Garrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Wonderfully said!

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         Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So you think when humans die we somehow invisibly take our thoughts and memories from our brain and float off to where God is. Good luck with that.

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      ytbot1xposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You're sounding like a Creationist, OMG!

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      Sarra Garrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Once again Troubled Man you love to stir up controversy. To answer your question, God did at one time create a peaceful and loving earth.  Unfortunatly, humans became greedy and ruined what God originally created.  With the lack of God or a Higher Spirit in ones life there is a lot of greed and hate, thus, creating an unpleasant planet to live on.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It would be nice if you believers actually responded to what I wrote instead of regurgitating false beliefs about human nature. And, you blame me for stirring up controversy?

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      ytbot1xposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The Earth is hostile/has hostile environment??
      
      Is this hostile? This is my sister who lives in Austria, and this image was taken when she was hiking through the countryside.
      
      

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, or are you oblivious to that fact?

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            ytbot1xposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's for you to decide what you mean by 'hostile'. I have presented a visual evidence. All you can do now is use twisted language to detract attention.

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      Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Are a one trick pony, or what?
      I have a better question. Why would God put up with all of your nonsense?

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   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   Safeheaven.

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   Is that a serious question? Why not ask  'why did God make rocks?' Since it hurts to stub your toe.
   
   Is the universe seriously supposed to revolve around you? Or any human?

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's an entirely different question to an entirely different situation.
      
      
      
      That wasn't the question.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I hate to say this ATM but your question is born of ignorance. We don't know enough about nature to determine if these 'natural disasters' are disasters; across the board. These incidents are part of nature. Maybe, without the whole, none of the parts could exist.
         
         Life is a gift to explore and learn. If the day ever comes where we know it all your question would have merit.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Then, obviously you must know the correct answer.
            
            
            
            Ah, so you have no answer. Did you want to hear yourself talk or something?

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            psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Not knowing the answer doesn't make is a bad question.

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               But asking why God did something, as if nature is a bad thing, is not incredibly mature.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  It appears you don't understand the OP.

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                  psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I disagree.  Nature does do things that, if deliberate, would be bad.
                  
                  'Why bad things happen to good people' is one of the most enduring and valid questions in theology.  If the great Saints and theologians think it worth discussing, why should we disagree?

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      jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Isn't this what the christians teach, the world and everything in it is made for humans?

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         Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That and all kinds of stupid s**t.

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      lone77starposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think that's a great question, Emile.
      
      And by the same token, prayers usually don't work because they all too frequently come from ego, rather than from the child of God within. Ego praying is just as effective as a rock praying -- or a computer program on a chuck of doped silicon (called a "computer").
      
      The big breakthrough for anyone is to see that the universe does not revolve around self (ego). But then one has to have the confidence (faith) to let go and let the true self (spirit, soul) wake up.

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      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think that is the point. Believers think that we humans are special and everything on the earth was put here by God just for us.
      
      It's really a very silly concept.

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4. 59

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Dieing is the only way for us to return to where we came from.
   
   SO    would it have been better if God had created only ONE way to to do this?
   I believe that on a subconcious level we all have chosen how we will do this.
   And we have SOoo  many ways from which to choose from.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So, what you're saying is that God creates natural disasters to kill people whenever He decides He wants to kill people?

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         No!  I didn't say anything similar to that!!!
         So you think God should have childproofed the earth. If it was childproof, I don't think it would have been much fun!
         NO mountains to fall off of?  No rivers to drown in?  How far should he have gone to protect us?  No horses that might step on our toes?
         We build cities at the foot of active volcanoes; we build cities 50 ft. below sea level on the coast lines.    We challenge nature at every turn.   We build our homes in the swamp then complain about mosquitoes.  Yet earthquakes and tornados can get us regardless of where we are.
         In all reality,  most people wouldn't want to live forever. We would get bored, No alligators to chase?  We would still abuse these bodies to the point that we would be miserable if we had to keep them.  And the situations that we would get ourselves into ????      Life needs an escape route.
         Some people are going to complain no matter what!

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So, now you say tsunamis and hurricanes are fun?
            
            
            
            And, now you're saying hundreds of thousands of people who died recently in natural disasters didn't want to live forever? They were bored?
            
            
            
            Yes, just as long as you, your family or friends are never involved in any natural disaster.
            
            Unbelievable.

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               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               It appears from this side of the fence ..that..  you have a comprehension problem when ever you read just about every post of mine that you have replied to
               
                 That is why I don't argue with you whenever I can help it.  apples and oranges...    I quess ?????

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No Jerami, what you need to do is to sit back, collect your thoughts and attempt to organize them with the appropriate words so that you can communicate effectively if you feel your posts are not being comprehended.

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5. 61

   janesixposted 12 years ago

   My guess is that a "safe" Earth isn't condusive to spiritual growth. By nature we are sinners. Spiritual growth is hard. It takes trial and error. Probably lots of error.
   
   God gave us free will, and we make tons of mistakes. We have to learn from them and grow.

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      pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      by nature we r sinners or by nature god of bible is sadist , that needs to be figured out....

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      But, you can't attain spiritual growth if God kills you in a natural disaster. How does that work?

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   breeding like rabbits ??
   Imagine it we were to fence ten acres of land  and put just one mated pair of rabbits in that confined area. Any inteligent person would know the inevidable. The land will be filled with rabbits, overflowing if possible, But if expansion of the enviroment isn't possible or practicle, eventually some form of population controll will have to be put in place; either sterilization, exportation or death.
   
   We could introduce a mated pair of foxes into the compound.This would be a temporary fix. Eventually the number of foxes could erradicate the rabbit population. We would then have to controll the population of foxes. The whole process is becoming more and more complicated. The more complex the the situation becomes the more fair it appears to be. But in reality, the answer to the problem remains the same; some form of population controll will have to be put in place.
   
   Yes I'm talking about the earth as being the fensed area. AND ... In a perfect world, mankind would have been the inteligent population controll manager for ALL life forms within the confined area.   
   
   Mankind has to take credit for all the mismanagement we have inflicted upon a world that was once a paradise.  Or  ...   we can just blame GOD for allowing us controll???

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      But, humans are not rabbits in that we actually have a developed brain, a brain the realizes the faulty reasoning of God's message to "Be fruitful and multiply" hence we as humans had to create the concept of family planning, something your God failed to mention.
      
      So, is that how people are supposed to behave? Kill da wabbits?
      
      
      
      Notice how your examples demonstrate failure, kind of like God's plan?

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         psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I sure as hell hope God, if He exists, knows methods of population control other than murder.  If not he is dumber than your average veterinarian.

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   And again we have avoided the subject.  consider the scenario i presented and come up with a solution.  It is easy to say any idea sucks!   Many people do it all of the time.
   BUT ??
   Has anyone suggested a way of population controll better than the one currently in operation?
   When I am dead, is it really going to matter to me if I drowned, fell off a mountain top, starved to death or was shot in a robery or died while at war? There are multitudes of ways to leave this world.
   It matters not the way in which we died. It is those minutes, hours or days which leads up to that moment of death which we dread.
        Population controll by any other name is still population controll.
       As ATM mentioned .. We have developed brains and are well capable of fixing our own problems all of which we choose to adress.  And everything that we choose not to adress, we blame a God of which some of us do not believe.   
   My question is  "How can any civilization survive while continueing to procreate and no one ever dies"?

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      psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Um, yes of course.  God is omnipotent, he could just make more people infertile.  He could do, by definition, anything at all. If he decided to kill people, he could do it painlessly.

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes verrrry true!   and why stop with that?  Why not just take every kind of pain out of the scenario?  No pain even when we break a leg jumping from treetops.
         Should he also take away all of our painful memories?   Sure why not?  ...  then it would be a perfect world.

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            Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That day is coming and I think it may be soon. No more pain, no more sorrow, no more diaper rash!

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               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I think that we were already there ....   then we chose to wear these physical bodies for a while.
               We knew what this physical existence was going to be like and chose to come here and play anyway.
               We also knew that our time here was going to be short ....   otherwise we wouldn't have chosen so.
               
               Just my thoughts on the matter.    Not trying to push this theory on anyone, just shareing my thoughts.

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            psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You just skipped tracks.
            
            You suggest disaster is needed for population control.
            
            When I said it is not you said suffering is somehow necessary.
            
            Perhaps you could expound on why suffering is necessary, specifically horrendously painful diseases that seem to occur to people at random.
            
            That is a completely different argument.

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         Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Do you ever get tired of running the same lame lines? How about a little creativity. Are you writers or a propaganda block with a sentence map?
         
         Why not ask why God allows you to blather on incessantly about how he doesn't exist? I hope you hear the answer. I would hate to see you miss the party.

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            psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I am pretty sure this is the first time I have every made such a statement in any setting.
            
            perhaps you would like to engage constructively in the conversation?

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               Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Sure, what's up? I have been. You are being contentious, and I have a knack for meeting people on the level they are on when they come to me. You do not present yourself as being open to intercourse. But I will be happy to engage you.

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                  psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, don't you think it implausible that God would need to resort to natural disasters for population control.  I think He would be a better shepherd than that.  So if He exists these things must have some higher purpose.
                  
                  My level was a  sincere statement of opinion, politely, without any overt or implied insult.  I am not sure how it could be read as anything else.

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                     Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     It's all good. Let me take another run at it. Personally, in my opinion, the way I see it, and don't expect anyone else to reinforce that with their approval, God doesn't use the weather or natural disasters to punish, or thin out the population.
                     
                     Before the flood, there was no weather. It had never rained until then. According to the Bible, because of the total depravity and sociopathic self-infatuation of man, Jehovah Jireh had to give the world an enima. After the flood (we know the rainbow story) there was weather. The storms and catastrophes are a result of the new phenomena, weather. The rainbow is to remind man that God will not do anything like that with the water on the earth, again. When man started reverting back to his depravity, God took steps  to correct the situation and has given us all a chance to walk in love. We all know what that means. Of course, we don't have a mind to do that, so God provided us with the power to do that. No matter how much doubt you have, if you ask him for it, he'll give you all you want for free.
                     
                     Maybe that much literalism is more than you can to digest. Let's look at it another way. This ancient text speaks of a time when Earth was a giant terrarium, and the orbits, axis, and rotation of the earth and the other heavenly bodies was symmetric (elliptical, now). The dinosaurs could live on the north pole, the temperature didn't fluctuate much over the globe, or throughout the year (no seasons). It speaks of a cataclysmic event that changed everything. It all started wobbling. How can I say what is up with that? I'm a man with only two eyes in the front of my head and a third one in my mind. I can see a lot more with that one.
                     
                     Peace, and much respect.

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                        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                          Really?! 

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                           Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           You obviously missed the part where we were communicating as intellectuals. You are harshing my intercourse. It is a beautiful story. If you don't care for it, oh well. It means nothing to me. Respect a man who knows more than you. If you can't join the conversation on equal footing, shut your mouth and learn.
                           
                           Those smiley faces got old in 1985. 

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                              getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              No.  I saw the part where Troubled Man and others were communicating as intellectuals, but I haven't seen anything remotely intelligent about your comments.  You are clearly out of your league.  Sorry.
                              
                               
                              
                              Making absurd statements, like the one about the weather, shows that you definitely don't know more than I do.  I would never utter something that ludicrous.
                              
                              Sage huh?!!! LOL
                              
                              
                              
                              All I'm learning is that God needs to find sharper people to defend, and promote his message.  Geez!

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                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        "There Was No Rain Before the Flood - Arguments Christians Should Not Use
                        
                        Some Christians claim that there was no rain before the Flood. Many of them make this statement quite dogmatically as if it were obvious from a reading of the biblical text. However, a close examination of Scripture does not bear this out."
                        
                        http://www.answersingenesis.org/article … fore-flood

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                           Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Sorry, I've lost interest in your garbage. You are having a fantasy. There is no way I will waste my time going to a link that will drop stink on my computer.
                           
                           Besides, if you read the thread, I was sharing some thoughts with someone who asked me to relate more on an intellectual, personal level. I qualified my statements in such a way that if some fool tried to turn it into a controversy, the weak minded idiot would expose herself as one. It is a shame you don't enjoy intercourse. I'm really good at it.
                           
                           Show respect to the greater mind.

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                     Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I DO think that earthquakes and volcano eruptions are a necessary elements.
                     It isn't necessary for us to build cities at the foot of those volcanos. We are aware of the odds and then we gamble.
                     Kinda like building a tree house to live in. When a tornado comes too close this would be a disaster.  As the population expands we take more chances.
                     We build dikes along the seashores in order to build cities below sealevel. When the dikes fail, this too is a diasater.
                     We do what we think that we have to do, sometimes we reap the benefits, sometimes we don't.
                     When something goes wrong ...  Well. it is a disaster.
                     We have to decide how careful we want to be.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Obviously, your God failed miserably in that regard. Murdering hundreds of thousands of people in natural disasters is pure evil, even Satan would be impressed.

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         Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Your boss wouldn't be impressed with your dribble here. Get creative, climb up out of your box and say something meaningful. Even a sockpuppet should perform at her best. Lead us to a better place. Tell us . . . how should we be, what should we do, how should we think, what should we believe in?

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            psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If this post has a point, I am not sure what it is.

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               Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               The gal needs to step up and elvate the intellectual level of her posts. They are redundant and most people have lost interest.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You should, at the very least, attempt to think rather than just believe.

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               Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I do both. You aren't even good at one.

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   getitriteposted 12 years ago

   Just experienced a 4.6 earthquake on the east coast.   Should I pray?

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      Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Don't wait for an earthquake. Pray without ceasing!

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   getitriteposted 12 years ago

   Christian makes assertion...
   assertion is logically opposed by secular opposition...
   Christian tries to support premise...
   opposition presents sources...
   Christian becomes angry and insulting, and just downright nasty.

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      Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Just what you are hoping for when you break social convention of civilized people to insult an honest man's heart felt belief. A person who does not respect the religion of another (provided it doesn't involve human sacrifice and your turn is next) is not respectable. I do not respect you, and intercourse with you is unfulfilling.
      
      Besides, I made no assertion, I shared a beautiful concept. Go throw eggs at cars and leave me alone. Respect the better writer.

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         getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I'm hoping you will see how silly your heart felt beliefs are, and rally your critical thinking skills, and defeat the charlatans who have enslaved your mind.
         
         
         
         I don't respect anything that's foolish.  Sorry if your heart felt beliefs fall under that banner.  Try obtaining more sensible beliefs.
         
         
         
         The main things is that you have no respect for yourself.  And, did you just recently learn the definition of the word "intercourse"???  It would probably look a little less vulgar if you put the word "social" in front of it...ergo-"social intercourse."
         
         
         
         Sharing nonsense is not beautiful.
         
         Have a good day.

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            Backwater Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Intercourse does not need to be qualified unless you are trying to identify a particular kind of intercourse. Intercourse and stimulating conversation are synonymous. Now, you must add "sexual" to clarify that activity. No one can classify anything you present as "intellectual" intercourse.
            
            I see I got you going. That was a lot of work you just did. Where did you get the energy and determination to give me so much attention.You are a slow learner, salute a superior author and don't argue with the teacher.
            
            Now, go spit off the top floor of a building on unsuspecting pedestrians and leave me alone. C-Ya!

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