Religion and how we represent it.

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   Kiss andTalesposted 10 years ago

   When soldier's are attacked in warfare ,is it personal that they have been attacked ,or is it just the governments problem and they  should not take it personal.
   People seem to think it is not the same for your religious faith ,I feel it is the same.

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      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The problem arises when you:
      Claim that your god is the right one, that others are false.
      Claim that your scriptures are correct, that others are false.
      Claim that your interpretation of scripture is right, that others are false.
      Claim that you have true knowledge, based only on subjective feelings.
      
      All of these things, and many more, make religious faith extremely personal, extremely subjective, and nothing similar to a soldier in the government's army being attacked.  Religion is seldom attacked; only personal beliefs and the methodology used to produce those beliefs.

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      A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry, but that is not even remotely the same thing. Of course, your free to show us how they are related, if you can?

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      Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      And THIS is the entire problem with how we approach and represent Christianity.  We are not at war with each other about our spiritual beliefs.  If, for just one minute, we believers stopped acting as though every person who believes differently than we do - or doesn't believe at all -is our enemy, we might actually find someone willing to talk about the subject with us.

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      1. 61

         Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         This is true yet that does not mean we should allow people to talk down,or even show disrespect for the father that is the difference.

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            Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            No, it is the perceived difference.  Disagreement about beliefs is not talking down about God.  That's really the first issue.  The next is that God, our Father, is perfectly capable of defending Himself.  We show ourselves to be disobeying His commandments and NOT showing his love when we condemn others, threaten them, or harass them until they concede and say they believe what we have to say.

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            1. 61

               Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               And tell me what have I been saying?

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                  Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm not accusing you of saying anything in particular.  I'm speaking of personal attacks and insults that often get bandied about during religious conversations, as you referred to taking "attacks" personally during religious debates. 
                  
                  Carry on with your conversation.

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         2. 61

            Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            According to what is written we do have a war. Ephesians 6:11-17 We are to stand firm .I do as I know how.

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               Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               And our war is not against flesh and blood.  According to Ephesians 6:11-17.
               
               Prayer is your greatest tool, not browbeating human beings.

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               1. 61

                  Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  What is brow beating humans ,maybe you can explain to me?

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                     Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     It's claiming personal attack when they disagree with you.  It's treating them as though you're at war with them because they disagree with you.  It's making very clear statements and accusing them of twisting your words when your words are very plainly there in black and white for the whole world to see.  It's taking up a centuries old cause all by yourself and demanding that they find the same truth you've found and then take up that cause with you - and when they don't, it's harassing them and insulting them and treating them as though they are somehow second-class human beings because they think, speak, and maybe act differently than you might. 
                     
                     IMO, as soon as you recognize the depth of God's love for you and realize that He is who He says He is...you recognize that His love isn't just that deep for YOU, but for everyone He's created.  And if you can't show even a tiny bit of that same love to others, rather than fighting your own personal war with them, then maybe you need to spend some time alone with Him until you feel loved up again.
                     
                     Browbeating is going on and on and on at a person even when they no longer want to hear what you're saying, and have made several attempts to move on from the conversation.  As believers, we have a bad habit of always having to have the last word.

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                     1. 61

                        Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        There is no brow beating on my part ! If you ask me a question I will answer it, if you make a statement to me I will answer it ,if it is reasonable and not to debate. you are taking my answers from people who ask. As I am brow beating ,show me a statement where I am brow beating some one.Ms MCT.

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                           Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           This is actually a prime example.  You've become very defensive with me when I've said nothing offensive.  You've begun to take things personally (evidenced by your demanding that I provide you examples of where YOU are browbeating, when I have from the beginning been addressing your OP in general - not in regard to you personally.  Your tone, whether you intend it be that way or not, is condescending and rude.
                           
                           I believe it's time for you and I to discontinue this conversation.  I have no intention of getting into an argument where little is accomplished or discovered. 
                           
                           I wish you the best as you move forward, but I don't believe that it's wise for me to continue this journey with you.
                           
                           Enjoy your evening.

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                              Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              I respect your choice, have a good day.

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                                 Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks!  You too. 

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               2. 61

                  Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  And who ever said I did not pray that is private ,you would not know.

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                     Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     I also did not say you don't pray.  This is the first encounter you and I have ever had on a forum thread.  Do you have me confused with someone else?  I was answering your OP in general.  I was not speaking to you on a personal level.

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                        Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        You did say I need to pray. In your statement .

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                           Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           I did not say "you need to pray."  What I said is prayer is the best tool.

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            2. 58

               MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Well, as you have apparently decided that you are at war, it shouldn't surprise you or make you feel persecuted when someone attacks back.

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               1. 61

                  Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  When truth is said No I do not feel threaten. Because it is right.

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                     MelissaBarrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh, I didn't care if you felt threatened...
                     
                     I just said you shouldn't complain about it.

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                        Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Oh I do not feel threaten ,please look over my usage of (!)Marks it is a way or habit when I want to stress a meaning it does not mean I am yelling or talking out loud at you.

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            3. 61

               Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               No I never said what you just quoted. ,you should read all post before you post. And name calling maybe you should see who really has used name calling. I do not need to name call. And that is true God does defend what is right ,but so does Jesus and the deciples ,they did a work of speaking the truth of the father , that truth is not limit just to the father he in trusted it to others who will respect it. Mostly people are offended of truth , they are no difference of long ago ,

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               A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, you are always at war. We are attempting to have peace and understanding, but unfortunately...

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      2. 61

         Kiss andTalesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You said prayer is the best tool , which means you assume I do not pray.

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            Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            There is absolutely no logical way to have come to that conclusion from what I said.  I simply stated that in a spiritual war, there is no better tool than prayer.  Witnessing, or whatever you are doing here, and whatever other believers do when they argue with nonbelievers is not.
            
            My observation is that you read far more into what is being said than is necessary.  I speak very clearly and very plainly.  If I intended to say that you do not pray, I'd have said you do not pray.

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   JMcFarlandposted 10 years ago

   And this its exactly the problem I have with your claims.  You twist what people say and turn it into a personal attack.  No one has attacked you.  Have I criticized your beliefs?  Absolutely.  Do I have a right to, when you put them out on a public forum?  Absolutely.  Then you turn around and cry persecution and claim that you're being attacked.  You're even twisting the words of other believers who disagree with you.  Do you consider yourself infallible?  Can you not admit that you may have between wrong?  Why do you think everyone who is disagreeing with you is out to get you our attack you?

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