I cannot remember a time when Christians have not invaded every conversation and every forum with their belief about Jesus Christ. Please note that Jews don't do it, Muslims don't do it, Hindus don't do it, Budhists don't do it, and as far as I can tell, I've never had a Mormon do it as well.
I also remember that in the decade that I was a 'born again' Christian, every time I went to a gathering of the clan which was about four times a week, I would hear the refrain that I had to go out and 'witness', that I had to open my mouth at evey opportunity to talk about J.C.
I was so insensitive to those around me that I never understood that it was the last thing they were interested in. I recall a very nice guy saying to me, "Is that all you can speak about?"
The answer, at that time in my life, was yes, but I didn't understand the question because, quite literally, I didn't know what else to speak about.
After I left the clan, I did a lot of studying as to how I got caught up in it. It appears that there is a process called 'soft brainwashing'. What it means is that the human brain is well adjusted to taking as truth whatever it hears over and over again. That's how advertising works. So, even if one knows that something isn't true, there is an instinct to accept it as truth just because one hears it repeatedly. It takes the utmost diligence to be aware that one's brain is believing something because it has been programmed that way throughe evolution (Yes, I know it's a dirty word to you.)
This 'soft brainwashing' is also why children in different part of the world grow up to believe the particular religions of their own country. It is what they hear the entire time from birth. They don't even have to be in a religious family. It just needs to be something they hear all the time.
Another aspect is that music reinforces belief. So, the more music there is (of a certain type), the more the brain likes it. Chanting is another method that enforces belief. Brain entrainment takes place through rhythm and light. And if any of those factors are present, then the process of belief comes more quickly.
So, looking back, I understand why I spoke about it all the time. I had been brainwashed to. At every service, I heard that I had to go out and witness. I did so without even wondering if the people I was witnessing to were interested.
In retrospect, I feel a complete idiot about it, and I confess to you, there is also a deep resentment against the movement for having destroyed much of my life. You see, I grew up in an environment where people checked their facts before speaking. I was so naive at the time that it never occurred to me that people would teach something without them being absolutely sure it was true.
Well, a decade of intense study completely convinced me that there was no more truth in Christianity than there was in any other religion. When I had a daughter, I religion-proofed her for life by explaining how the process happened and showing her own to check facts. I believe that's very important. We are all victims of our own brains to believe what it is told repeatedly.
Anyway, that's my story. What's yours? Why do you really speak about it all the time?
three things not to talk about in an irish pub
i think you are on to something sophia
this is central to government education policy regarding religion
when is indoctrination not indoctrination
religion should be handled with care like gelignite
it should be administered to young people with scientific precision
this is not happening
it's a dose of dogma from day one
no broader external reference to help the children who are being immunised against insight
it is cloning in a conceptual way
all religions do this all the time
the ones who are best at this process last the longest
its a game of last man standing that they are pursuing intently
thanks for your insights
There's also this viewpoint that religious people need to do this because they are fearful of people who do not share their religious views. They can cope with people of different religions ("they just believe something else") but they have difficulty coping with those who reject their views entirely.
totally get what you're saying. In the more than a decade (from childhood) I was a christian, I was so immersed in the whole thing, it was my whole life. And there was "soft" pressure to "witness"/"evangelise".
Many of my hubs have aspects of what it was like being a christian and why I deconverted.
I agree with the music thing. It puts people in the "mood"
I tell my son matter-of-factly about anything he wants to know ie that his nana is christian & how that affects her etc
I think some of it is because they spend so much of their life involved in activities for god - bible studies, prayer meetings, prayer chain, etc that it becomes "normal" to them - it become ALL they have to talk about, as they don't engage in any other aspects of life - eg to talk to my parents, my mother ALWAYS goes back to god ie new pastor that visited, friend that supposedly got healed from cancer etc. She really doesn't talk about anything else
I was born and raised catholic but i am not exactly christian. i do believe that religion is a very important part of being human, but i also believe that we should not let others influence what we believe in. Organized religion as a whole isn't a belief system, its a set of rules to follow. If we are ever going to become a peaceful people we need to stop dictating what others believe in. Peace comes through the acceptance of others. If you don't believe in anything else, believe in love. It is love that will save humanity from itself. We should not press our beliefs on others, we should discuss each others beliefs in a humble way and learn from what others believe in.
I do not agree your thoughts. how your telling there is no good. there is a creater of the world.
When did i say there wasn't a god? I DIDN'T I said i wasn't christian, there's a major difference there. Besides I just said it is wrong to push our beliefs on other people. Yes i do believe in"God" I believe in a great many things but my beliefs are my beliefs and yours are yours. neither of us has the right to say that the other is wrong because we do not have proof. yes throughout our lives, life may have shown us proof that there is a god, but we don't have factual evidence therefore we cannot tell who is right and who is wrong.
I don't think the Christians talk about the Creator-God; they talk about Jesus and misconceive him as god.
True cannot be "very" true.
Unless of course it's a lie.
I speak about Him all the time because in Him I live and breathe and have my being; without Him I am nothing; and He is the only entity that deserves my adoration.
..You say you were a "born-again" Christian. I hope you won't be offended, but I highly doubt that statement, because being born again is a Spiritual experience so powerful that one doesn't easily dismiss it, and one does so at one's peril.
@Brenda Durham.That's because you've been taught it's not possible to have an experience with God and leave him. However, the new Testament speaks about being 'backslidden' or haven't you read that part?
I think what is true is that like many other people I have an intensely spiritual experiences but these days interpret them in a different way.
No, I wasn't taught that theory of "once-saved, always saved". Yes, I know it's possible to "backslide"! I've actually done so before, and it was a very dark time in my life, even though I (at the time) found pleasure in sin for a season.
What I was trying to say is that it's not common for someone who really Loved the Lord to easily STAY in a backslidden condition, and to become a non-believer, because usually one's heart will eventually miss that fellowship with the Lord, and the Spirit will draw a person back toward Him too.....
I just don't believe everyone who says they WERE born-again, because of that great Love that the Lord shows us. He is so wonderful; I can't imagine anyone easily changing the way they look at Him if they truly were ever born-again....
I would have thought that a Christian talks about God because they love God. Not because they are told to talk about God?
Makes sense that if one is a Christian then that is all one will talk about...well for the most part.
If they are a Mum for instance they will tell you all about their children because they love them. Not because they are told to.
Logic? Where will we go next. Will limit my comments less I stand accused of invading another open forum.
I don't have a problem with people talking about God if both parties want to talk about God.
I am talking about people who are forced to listen to others who want to bombard them with Jesus. They appear completely insensitive to cues to change the topic.
Eventually, one has no choice but to say,"I'm sorry, I have to rush. I have an appointment."
And then avoid them forever.
Key point: "I don't have a problem with people talking about God if both parties want to talk about God. I am talking about people who are forced to listen to others who want to bombard them with Jesus."
There is always whining that there is talk of God on the religious forums by those who don't want to hear it. SO WHY DO THEY FORCE THEMSELVES INTO A GOD CONVERSATION? It is impossible to feel they are forced into it when they choose to be there.
I always like to hear voice their opinions about God and Jesus Christ. Especially when they can get so negative about it!
I'm a Christian, and I agree with you everyone does not want to hear it all the time. Sometimes I don't want to hear it, but for a specific reason! The reason is that many of those who are so dogmatic about their belief are really not knowledgeable about what they're saying.
People don't want to hear what they're saying because the one talking commonly shows uncertainty about what they are saying. Many Christians have sat up in dead hole churches that taught them nothing about who God, or Jesus Christ is and what their meaning is to the person.
If they are asked who is God and Jesus, and the answer is, God is the Father, and Jesus Christ is His son, anyone can pick up on a lack of knowledge in the one doing the witnessing!
Many Christians to whom I've come in contact with don't even know the basics of thei salvation, or even why they're saved.
What you, and many others don't understand is that Christianity is spiritual. There is no way for a person who is operating in the natural realm to understand who God or Jesus are. No way! It's like trying to mix oil and water, they won't mix!
So, I understand where you're coming from. I don't need to preach to you about who God and Jesus are, because you won't understand it anyway.
You'll find, if you still have a Bible, in John 4:24 - "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him, MUST, worship Him in Spirit and in truth."
I can always tell when a person who claims to be a Christian is a baby Christian. Spirits recognize kindred spirits!
Unbelievers like you never upset me to a point of contempt, like you are in contempt now, without even knowing the whole story. You see whatever a person does it's between him and God. When you become a judge, as you have, you put yourself in a very bad place, even if you don't profess to believe.
Look in your Bible at James 4:12 . In case you don't have one I'll tell you what it says - "There is only one lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you - who are you to judge your neighbor"
SImply because others do wrong things doesn't mean that you have to be stupid like they are. Whether you believe it or not you WILL stand before the judgement and you WILL be judged. Are you ready for that? Unless you thing you will live in this life forever, you are in a very bad place with the creator of the universe... unless you don't believe that either!
God bless you, and I pray for mercy for your kids!
I apologize for the typos! I was doing this between one of my classes.
I always speak about God because I love Him. I am a christian and my love and duty is to witness to people. Jesus Christ died for me He paid the penalty so I would not have to. Not only am I required, as a christian to witness to others, but I have a desire to do so, I want others to feel the joy of the Lord as I do. I don't feel people should be forced into witnessing, whether by parents, or churches. When I first got saved (became a christian), I was afraid to witness to people, because I was shy around people, but I allowed Holy Spirit to work in me, until one day I felt comfortable witnessing. A lot of people say religion this and religion that, but seriously it is just all about Jesus Christ, and His Love for us, and His desire for us to live with Him in eternity. By the way Jesus Christ and God is One, it does not mean they are one person it means they think, act, and agree on the same things. There are three persons in the Godhead, they are God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy spirit, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are Spirits, Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the Godhead, Jesus is what God looks like in the form of a man. Jesus Christ is both Man and God. I love God and study the Bible and I feel joy from the knowledge I get from God, and my desire is that all people will feel the joy I feel. Christians mean " Christ Ones." I love to tell the Story of Jesus and His Love.
I can sympathize with your sentiment here. I do want to point out that here on HP at least we have a few Muslims who seem to talk their religion just as much as the Christians do.
Why do so many atheists talk with Christians about God? Esp. if they don't believe?
I for one, like talking about Him.
Ask yourself the following questions: who initiates such conversations and for what reasons? Exactly, that answers your questions.
Whey do so many christians talk about science? especially when they believe the world was made in 7 days?
Could it be because it is almost completely unavoidable? What with folks thinking that their thoughts are just so totally interesting and worth sharing. Especially when the application of their thinking creates new technology for us
In some circles there are those individuals who feel it is necessary to brain wash others into believing their way of thinking, Christian and non-Christian, religious or non-religious. When someone becomes passionate about something they have, whether it is knowledge of something they believe, or a new car, they like to share it with people around them. While a new car will eventually grow old and gradually become less exciting to share with others, a passionate Christian will never grow weary of sharing the many aspects of a relationship with Jesus Christ. As you grow in wisdom and understanding, not necessarily in Biblical knowledge but in life, some people learn to temper their expressions of excitement to the receiver, while others just continue to push, convinced that everyone needs to feel the same way as them. A true Christian is convinced that they have something of great value that they want to share with those who don’t. Unfortunately instead of sharing it becomes more like “shoving” as they try to persuade others to see their perspective. Now instead of being a gift, it becomes law, and the whole message is lost.
Great post Sophia. I was in a church last night for carol singing and the words were put up on the big screen. I'd never really paid much attention to them... gosh, they appeared decidedly cultish to my adult self. Quite disconcerting. Then a song was sung just by the attending christian children. My friend made a snide remark about the annoying level of repetition (it was one line repeated for the entire song) and my reply to him was that's how brainwashing goes down, especially with the young... repetition, music, group influence, and applauding adults.
I'm so happy for your daughter. And you.
Went to a Richard Dawkins event last night. Applauding adults, group influence, repetitive ideas, slide presentations and a host of other communicative influences. Hmm! Hadn't considered I was being brain washed. Wow! Your right! I feel all clean and tingly!
I diagree-Christians speak about alot of other things (other than God). ( I have in 30 mins commented on 5 different topics,this thread was the only Religious related one)
In retrospect ,the topic would be the most natural thing for them to speak about however.
Actually alot of Christians probably never comment. cruise in and cruise out. I do that alot too.
It astounds me the interest that Jesus Christ generates and challenges he presents to people from all walks of life
@Eaglekiwi. Take a look at the ratio of posts on the forum. They are predominantly talking about Christianity/God. That happens on virtually every forum.
When someone first enters a church body, they are normally very relieved to have escaped what they now see as the danger of dying outside of Gods will, they feel gratitude and Churchianity feeds that feeling.
The first thing most churches will do is attempt to get a newbie fully involved in as much as they can be persuaded or coerced into doing.
This is a two fold thing, first, the more established members no longer want to do those things, and secondly the newbie, still being partly in the world, assumes that showing willing is required and a good way to progress quickly into the body of faith.
The witnessing aspect comes right on top of this desire, and folk start to tell everyone about Christ, which is natural because firstly they truly do feel that anyone who does not know Christ personally is in danger of eternal damnation, and secondly Christ normally fills a void that was what pressed them to come to faith in the first place.
If you don't wish to hear the witness, either walk away or politely decline the offer, or tell them you are a Buddhist and smile serenely... maybe add a ummmmmm or two and look mystical.
But why should they NOT talk about Christ?
People speak about the things that are the centre of their life, and for believers, that's Christ.
When I first came to faith, I wrote a piece called the J Word (now published as a hub) and it offered then (and now) a perhaps differing perspective.
Why do people get angry when the J Word is mentioned?
I grew up in the south(bible belt). The religious indoctrination is stifling.
It was so bad that I couldn't go to the bus stop, the laundry-mat, the supermarket, to work, or just about any place, without someone shoving their insane beliefs down everybody's throat--saying what wonderful things Jesus had done.
And then when I would go home, my mother is so brainwashed that she has no life outside of her belief in this nonsense.
My sister and I have tried over and over again to get her to see just how empty her life is, but she refuses to listen to any logical findings that her beliefs have been debunked.
These diabolical charlatans totally possessed my parents, and there is no retrieval of their minds.
However, these charlatans will never get me.
@ Aquasilver - because they are completely insenstive to the fact that one is being polite by listening to them, and that one wants to change direction of the conversation as fast as possible without being offensive. Most are so incredibly insensitive to the perspective of the person that they are talking to that they fail to see the cues.
These days I only deal with them as you have suggested. I tell them quite bluntly I'm not interested and walk away.
Why do Christians always Speak about God?
Because you asked why? Lol.
Because of all the fights you cause? IDK - thought you would have learned after 2000 years of wars? No?
Still - wot is important is u is being persecuted.........
Christians dont cause all the fights,thats a silly statement to make! (IMO)
Based on your statement Mark, then we should never talk about cars either ,since they cause many deaths
Not really - but I see you just want to fight like a good Christian. Have you ever read any history books?
I challenge that statement..
You see I want to fight ?, why do you always seem to see that?
I think your perception of me is incorrect (again)
The Bible is an Historic book ,but Im figuring thats not what you had in mind
I am also interested in the History of my ancestors,but would most probably choose a good novel if I truly had to choose.
The bible is an historic book? Well - I guess - but it is not a history book. Do you understand the difference and have you read any history books?
So - you are aware of the 2,000 years of warfare caused by your beliefs?
I dont agree.
I agree many used Gods name, most countries still do ( fight in Gods name)
But look if a persons goes to a bad doctor and he turns out to be a quack, does he stop believing in medicine-no ,he doesnt.
Which is what this post is primarily about ,a persons belief.
And my belief does not cause me to kill people or support people who have any inkling of being anywhere close.
To summise Mark, what you or anyone choose to do in Gods name ( or not do)is not my doing ,now is it?
I am responsible for my own thoughts and actions-as I hope you are.
Sure your beliefs cause you to fight. You are fighting now. Dear me.
Still - you have never read a history book then?
Obviously has never heard of the crusades, the Spanish Inqusition, the Huguenots, the fact that people fled to the new orld to get away from religious persecution by the Church. Not even aware of all the millions of Incas who were killed in the name of Christ.
No knowledge of history, I'd say.
The Romans are another prime example Sophia. Any nation or culture that didn't embrace their belief system after they were conquered was always rounded on. More dead in the name of religion.
They viewed many other cultures as barbaric - partly due to their seemingly uncivilized ways, partly due to the Romans perception of the pagan gods worshiped by conquered peoples.
Seems we've not learned much. Meh
I think you are being selective in which parts of history you deem relevant in your decision for or against Christ..
Your choice ,and I made mine based on my personal reasons ie my history( but note I didnt need to put you down, to make mine)
Lets see - WW1 - WW2 - the Korean conflict - the Viet Nam War - The Civil War - The war of 1812 - The revolutionary War - The teutonic War - The 100 years War - The 2nd Muskivite Lithuanian War - The Ottoman war - The German Peasant War - Sweedish War of Liberation - Inca civil War -
Enough already, the list goes on and on, but in fairness, I could also list almost as many fought for religious purposes. We fight wars, always have and always will. I'm not even sure we need a reason. Every conflict we engage in, is certainly not " in the name of God". There's a bunch, but a whole lot more where He wasn't necessary.
So you agree then? Religion is of no value and causes as much warfare as Nationalism?
Let's get rid of it and join together instead of artificially dividing ourselves. Maybe when we have disposed of the ridiculous notion of a divisive god - we can agree for a change? At least it would be one less thing to fight about.
Mark, you're replying to her EVERY comment, doesn't that qualify as fighting?
Perhaps you want to speak and not be spoken to?
Wrong again, the Torah is part of Jewish history. Every judge in office is required to know the Torah.
But then you know more than anyone else
wasn't thread on Christians...what has torah to do with it?
I was replying to Mark.
Where do you think the Bible came from.
It came from all the Jewish scripture and it is their history.
well ofcourse it came from jewish scriptures ...judaism can be said to be mother of all Abrahamic religion though other two might not agree with that...
You knew that and you still asked what I meant?
He said it wasn't history, and it is, it's Jewish history.
well i disagree with history part...i agree that bible came from jewish scripture...but that is not history...it is mixture of history and myth...since it is belief ...none can argue on belief system...so i wont argue on that..i am just stating my opinion...
Oh? So what? I have never read the Torah and I do not recall mentioning it either. Does it have any actual history in it or is it full of fairy tales like the bible?
The Bible is from the Torah. So whether you mentioned it or not...it is a part of Jewish history.
Bible is from the Torah, Torah is Jewish history, therefore bible is part of history.
Can't you follow a simple idea? NO
I never thought you had read the Torah
The Torah is not a history book. I would have thought some one so well versed in mysticism as yourself would have understood that the things in it did not actually happen.
Obviously it is a difficult concept for you to grasp that the bible (Torah) is an historic document, even part of Jewish history - but it is not a history book.
History books have facts in them. Sorry.
The Torah is what you (ex-) Christians call the first five books of the Old Testament of the Christian Bible.
The stories in it are an admixture of myth (Noah's Ark) and some embellished historical facts (exodus from Egypt). But considering the events described were 2500 years old or older, obviously the historical record is a bit shaky.
But whether a Jew thinks the Torah is fully myth or fully historical record, it is still considered the foundational text of Judaism.
but that applies to all faith and not just judaism...all books have some facts , some myths and some prophesies...
Sure - it is a religious text - but it is not a history book.
Yes, that's true; well, mythical history, IMO.
Before making erroneous statements why don't you do some research on it. B.I.A.H.
It's my opinion, Deborah.
I know that among Jews there is a spectrum of understanding of the nature of the Torah.
But you're right that the Christian Bible does make some modifications (mistranslations?) from the original Tanakh.
Wrong. You say you never read Jewish Torah, yet you know what is and isn't their history. Is that the way you come to all conclusions? Yes it is.
Get a life
So - is the Jewish Torah not the same as the bible you said it was?
Now I am confused. LOL
It is not the same. The bible is a bad copy.
But the bible comes from it.
You're having a problem putting ideas together?
Read up on it
Dear mark: none of us here want to fight you seem to be the only one trying to offend people here and i have followed you on other threads as well and the pattern is the same. instead of persecuting others because of your misconstrued preconceptions, take a good deep look at yourself and try to find out why you are so angry. please it will not only help the ones you judge but it will help you as well. I am not trying to insult you my friend, i am merely making a friendly suggestion.
We could all benefit from people of all faiths keeping their religion to themselves. I thought religion was supposed to be a personal choice, a private journey. Now, it seems that if you don't scream at the top of your lungs about what you believe, you are not a true believer.
I think a lot of people who impose their religious views on others are either insecure themselves, or don't have much class, or are uneducated or uncultured.
Roti, now you aren I are on exactly the same page. It is a private affair and that is where it says....
In that case, I don't want to hear politics or sports discussed either, I hate them both pretty much.
Why not outrule everything?
And I don't want to hear atheists whatever you want to call them, atheists sounds like a bad word for some reason, constantly talk about science proving no god. That is what my friends do,,,and my friend jj constantly talks about all her political beliefs and gets mad if you don't agree, not to mention her sexual orientation, which is fine, but forcing it in my face. Thank you very much.
The loudest are the most insecure. They need to constantly try to tell people what they should believe in. They are constantly looking for exceptance, and transfer that into selfworth and importance.
yes that's why most of us stay out but the famous " ...." and "..." stay here all the time! fighting to the death.
If you look at who's most active in this forum, that will tell you.
I think personally that since so many atheists on their deathbed said things like "Hell, I am going there, there is no escape,"
That they have to defend or they begin to feel fear and they must (forget) about the truth and keep the lies alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmhUP1SV … re=related
see ya...leaving now
this one I wouldn't watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynX_RWYT … re=related
As a Christian myself, I usually invade topics and bring up my 7 part Hub series on Elmer Fudd
Funny you mention that, I have a burning desire to hijack threads with my obvious lack of imagination that has kept me from writing a single hub.
poverty is just a cut and paste away my friend
Mao wasn't religious
Caligula wasn't religious
Stalin killed a few million and he wasn't religious...
you don't need to be a follower of a religion to be a psychopath
All true Greek One. My mother's similar to Mao and she ain't religious either
Anyway Mr Contrary - this thread is about religion. That's why there's the mentioning of religious wars. I doubt anyone believes that EVERY war was started due to religion.
I beg your pardon? Some of us are VERY passionate about our Chinese food..
Do you forget the great soy sauce war of 1857 led by General Kung Pao Chicken?
Oops ... sorry ... my bad. Apologies.
And for the record - IMO wars start because people don't agree. Now that's what they've all got in common
I grew up in a socialist country. They killed/threw out of the country people who did not believe into socialism. The rest were brainwashed every single day by meetings, songs, declarations, slogans etc. Repetition is the key. You don't have a choice but believe into crap you hear every day. And you start to repeat it, and you start to like it, it fills your life. You are ready to die for it, to kill for it. It's so sad. But there is something in our human nature that tends to yield to consistent brainwashing. Sad but true. Most of your beliefs are not even yours - somebody had to put it there into your brain at one time or another. To understand this is already a great accomplishment.
Home Girl, I don't know of any socialist countries that did that to anyone. i do know communist countries that did that to people, though.
America, like Australia, Europe, the UK, etc. all have heavy Socialistic policies.
Medicare is socialistic. Unemployement is socialistic. Pension funds are part of the socialistic dictum.
Socialism is when a country, through taxes, pays for certain services so that everyone can have them. Nobody dictates to the people. Europe is entirely socialistic - Germany, Spain, Finland, Greece, Italy, UK etc. I have lived in socialistic countries all my life. Never been an issue. All socialistic countries that I know of are democratic.
However, in the US, it appears that some thing that socialistic and communism are the same thing. So, if you're not English speaking, perhaps you mean communism?
I see that no different from any religious upbringing/indoctrination.
I rarely hear Christians speak of God. They give the one they call Jesus all the credit.
They are one and the same.
Amen and Hallelujah!
You are going to believe what you want and that's your right.
But, they certainly are not the same.
That's why Yahshua said:
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
And Stalin was a religious person. Communism was his religion. He prayed to it everyday. And killed way too many people for that.
Wars start because of religion, economic conditions, political philosophy, great social schisms, fights over resources, security concerns, which side to crack open a hard boiled egg, etc...
blaming religion, especially a single religion, is just not accurate
Wow Homegirl ,must check out your hubs,sounds fascinating!
We are all influenced by many things,family,culture,environment and thats all before we can even walk lol
Pour into the mix, life events, and personal situations and boy its incredible (least to me)how we all turn out so different and also the same.
I don't write a lot about life in my old country. it is still painful and I don't want to shock anybody. Just here and there. May be one day I will write more. It might be useful for somebody to know how people lived and why, as people tend to forget things quicky, especially bad ones that happened to them. I don't like to talk about politics, I never vote. I don't believe that one talking head is better than another. I could never be a spy for anybody, don't have that in me. I could never make a political career. I am just a person who lives the way she can in a country she happens to be in. I am home girl far from home. I am in a process to make it home here.
So tell me ,if one has never read a history book,or could even read for that matter ,what then Mark? they are therefore unable to speak about God?
Ok my turn~~> Oh dear
I was once asked a question... If a child is born to be Deaf, Blind and Paralyzed ; Can that child be capable of thought?
And if so; where does that thought come from?
I believe that it will have a thought process that is an uninterrupted, direct connection to the source.
I am Christian and don't speak about it all of the time. But you certainly have created an interesting topic.
Why do Christians speak about God? Why not?
If there is a great all-powerful being and one could have a relationship with such a being as Christianity claims, then how could you avoid talking about something that would be such a monumental event in your life? Would not everything else seem trivial in comparison? With a deeper reality seen beyond the contours of this world, is not conversation about God more ineresting than football games? Similarly, people who fall in love often annoy others with their exccessive talk about the one that they're in love with. Yet somehow, this is part of the experience of being "in love." The possibility of believing in God for Christians might be synonomous.
But why don't others talk about God? I don't know. Perhaps the groups that don't talk about God have recognized it as impolite and offensive whereas certain elements in the Bible encourage a mentality that makes offensiveness acceptable? Or maybe as culture and educations becomes increasingly critical of Christianity and the harm its done, people who are Christian feel compelled to speak of God as a way of not assimilating into a culture that would rather not put up with some of the less pleasant aspects of Christianity.
depends on how you talk about it.
theres bible bashing
and then there is mentioning just enough to intrigue the listener.
certainly bible bashing is not a good thing
but to mention the bible and the saving grace of jesus christ is tantamount.
its done because of concern (some will call it love but that gets bashed around so much we will use concern instead)
the stakes are enormous! and the benefits plentiful. For those who failed at submitting to God, life must truly suck big time but that is their problem and not the scenario of everyone.
For those that are successful in christ, he is a loving god with benefits and graces and glories to bestow on every believer.
Not to mention, of course, those that are not worthy to live in the realm of forever with a holy god in a society that actually works, will be doomed to live castigated from christ and eventually be snuffed like a candle flame, which is a shame because after this paltry life is over - the real life begins.
According to the bible, of course.
I can be emailed.
In reply to the OP on this long thread, here is another perspective.
Jesus told his followers to be the "salt of the earth." He didn't say to take a bunch of salt and dump it all over food so you can't eat it. Salt is meant to provide seasoning and make some dishes more palatable.
It's possible some Christian believers are pouring salt on unreceptive people, and I don't go along with that.
It is even possible to do this with fellow believers. Conversation between/among fellow Christians is important, but I challenge any Christian to sit quietly in a cafe and listen objectively to a group of Christians talking exclusively about their faith. I've done this. Sooner or later, the flesh begins to assert itself. You know, there is vying for importance and wanting to be seen as doing more significant things for God than your neighbor. They go far beyond challenging their fellow believers and instead try to build themselves up -- with their biblical knowledge, leadership abilities, etc. etc.
So, yes, too much exclusive contact with fellow believers stifles growth. That's one reason, among many, that it's important for Christians to talk about Christ with the world. This could be a slight mention, where they attempt to ascertain the spiritual state of their conversational partner, or an attempt to share the entire gospel message.
It's also important to share some of scripture. I had an opportunity to do this the other day, and I didn't think of the scripture till later, but I at least affirmed the effectiveness of prayer with a casual acquaintance I see each week. She brought it up -- I did not. I hope God leads me to do more in this situation.
Home Girl wrote:
The rest were brainwashed every single day by meetings, songs, declarations, slogans etc. Repetition is the key. You don't have a choice but believe into crap you hear every day. And you start to repeat it, and you start to like it, it fills your life. You are ready to die for it, to kill for it. It's so sad. But there is something in our human nature that tends to yield to consistent brainwashing. Sad but true. Most of your beliefs are not even yours - somebody had to put it there into your brain at one time or another. To understand this is already a great accomplishment.
I see it more like standing outside the kitchen.
You are hungry and the savory smells are enticing.
And too many people are content to enter the kitchen so they can smell it better.
The Church is the kitchen that brings the people up close.
We have to go through the kitchen to get to the dinning hall..
OR .. we can come straight in through the front door.
Call me persistent if you will but - I've asked this before.
If there is an almighty, a god, someone or something I can have faith in - why are there so many folks with their own view of god and how it works? Why is religion not unified? One god means one god. Even my priest had trouble explaining this one and besides his faith and belief in what he taught, he was also sharp and intelligent.
Those with faith can't agree with many other faiths so ... aside from the apostasy, why so many versions of god and/or religions?
Once religious folks can agree, maybe there's a chance others may be more open.
I don't understand what a person being open to God has to do with other people?
That doesn't answer what I asked.
Still - I was referring to why some folks don't appear to like or listen to the opinions of those who have faith. Of course that's not the only reason or even 'a' reason for some. Still - if it has nothing to do with other people, why then all the bible talk and use of scripture when someone opposes another's belief? If their openness is of no consequence, why bother.
Well doesn't it make sense for the believer to use whatever holy book they use for discussion as their point of reference? To a non-believer it doesn't matter what that holy book is going to say say anyway. Hence the conflict. And sometimes amusement for me.
Perhaps if you can visualize God like a river. Pure in its essence as it flows through all that exists including the mind of man. If the mind of man engages in poisonous thoughts, engages in passions of the mind etc etc it taints the river. Yet this river continues to flow. The source where its springs from has the ability to cleanse itself over time.
If the river is tainted by the mind of man this explains the infinite, different understandings of God.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Winston Churchill. Although Richard Dawkins cant change the subject either, his atheism has the intensity of a religious zealot. Or, indeed, the more smilingly obsessive BAC's.
Why do Christians always Speak about God?
The Christians never speak of the Creator-God whom Jesus used to pray; the Christians speak about Jesus who was never a god; it is a mythical creation of Paul and the Church.
uuuhh...*not worth replying to this thread*...just reading the first paragraph to this thesis doctoral statement you put together...I already see: fabrication! Hope you didn't lose any sleep over putting this one together.
The Torah is inside the OT. The Bible covers the OT and NT.
The Bible and all other religious book are written accounts of the past, some are mystic, metaphoric and truth(in a manner of speaking).
It speaks about humans, this is true. It speaks about a god? This is false, when you incorporate all knowable knowledge and rationality.
The first 5 books of the OT, is a sort of copy of the Torah, that's all.
The OT does not say what the Torah does. The nature of God is not the Christian God.
Can you read the Hebrew Torah?
Wow, no you can't
You seem to be something less than believable. So please.
I know what I need to know about the Torah. Whether or not, I am capable of reading it is actually irrelevant. If offers nothing of value to begin with.
You know nothing of the Torah except from English and translations by American Jews.
It is impossible to understand unless you read and understand Hebrew. LOL
I know it means nothing to you...but there's a reason for that.
Why even comment
I think we are collectively coming closer to a universal understanding / agreement regarding the nature of God and the universe.
I predict that within a few more carefully crafted forum threads, we will all, simultaneously, have a 'eureka' moment.
Thousands of years of mankind’s search for wisdom have come to this… who could have guessed that the Hubpages forum would be the conduit through which ultimate enlightenment would occur.
The anticipation is palpable… my nipples are hard beyond comprehension!!
I think that to understand scriptures can be compared to assembling a model car.
When we just dump the pieces on the table and begin gluing them together, we always come to the end having numerous parts left over that does not fit within our construction.
Ya have to begin by choosing the correct first piece to glue the second piece to. It may seem logical to some to begin with the steering wheel and work out from there? But I do not suggest that approach.
This is the answer and why atheists always refute our belief in God, it's both for the same reason:
We want people to see the truth and see the light that there is God and salvation and try to inform people there is a hell of eternal punishment!
For atheists same:
They want people to see the truth and understand the feeling of freedom of no rules and clear thinking, and see lack of knowledge as a form of punishment!
WITH KNOWLEDGE COMES POWER
RELIGIOUS PEOPLE CAN USE IT FOR POWER
AND ATHEISTS LIKE HITLER CAN USE IT FOR POWER
WHO IS GOING TO USE KNOWLEDGE FOR GOOD
--PEOPLE WHO HAVE MORALS:
MORALS EXIST WHETHER OR NOT RELIGION DOES
Why inform people of something you can't even prove to be real?
Why are you so angry at people who don't believe the same as you? And why do you keep stating that atheist want to live their lives with no rules?
This is absurd, being that anyone knows that living with no rules would guarantee extinction.
Your wrong, it is part of their history, and that's fact.
Ask any Jewish person
You're not agreeing doesn't make it not
if what jews believe as their history becomes history then by that same logic what arabs believe as their history becomes history...so why do you argue on that then?.
have you read history of other countries?...if yes you would get my point of view... ...all history has myth , opinions , versions of same event...some larger than life figures , some miracles (if that history is before industrial revolution) and some prophecies...it is human phenomena...it can be seen on most parts of world...we may call it history but just because collective group of people believe it is history it doesnot become fact..it has to stand the test of independent scrutiny and it should be backed by archaeology...till then it is mythology...
Since I'm Jewish I should know.
Jewish kids are taught the Torah as part of school history.
Is American history myth too.
Its part myth part truth, the same way a cup of coffee is part water, part coffee beans. Just the Torah is considerably more caffeinated than even the most biased American historian.
O and Greek one Im looking forward to when hubspages brings thousands of years of mankinds search for knowledge to an end . Have you any idea what adds would be appropriate?!!
So we all agree then.. the Greek Orthodox interpretation of Jesus is correct, and every other theory is wrong
FINALLY!... a resolution!
Next topic.. will the Toronto Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup this year...
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