Religious experience or delusion

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janesixposted 11 years ago
How do you tell if you are having a religious experience or a delusion/hallucination?

From my personal experience, it is impossible to tell.

But I have had concrete evidence that tells me that I've at least had some hallucinations. So how much is hallucination? All of it?

In order to live a normal life, I have to suspect that all of it is probably delusion.

I'm not saying there is no God, etc. Just that my own brain can not interpret the world around me correctly, so it tries to fill in the blanks. I think there is some truth behind the delusion, but that I personally can't know what it is.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If someone claims that they experience God, but can't supply any evidence they probably are either hallucinations or delusions or outright lies or an overactive imagination.
  
  I'd tell them to go to a doctor but they might just say they have phobias that prevent them from doing so.
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  calculus-geometryposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Accepting that they are delusions, as you are doing now in a clearer state of mind, is the safest option.Trying to justify that they might be religious experiences could lead you to some harm. Have a nice lunch with your family.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  We had a great time, thanks:)
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janesixposted 11 years ago
For now, I'm going to take a break from religion, go have a nice lunch with my mom,and spend some time with my boyfriend on his day off.

I plan to have a great day, and a mushroom swiss burger and tater tots.
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psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago
I've never had what I would call a religious experience, but I suppose that must be where faith comes in?
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Motown2Chitownposted 11 years ago
Is a religious experience solely defined by whether one sees or hears God? Why is it something that leads so easily to assumptions of delusion or hallucination? IMO, people have religious experiences all the time that don't involve hallucinations of any kind.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Right, I agree, but when someone says God speaks threw them and they are a prophet it's time to get some help.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'm just curious as to how most people would describe a religious experience.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Me too, but people seem reluctant to describe their experiences for some reason. Me, I'm an open (yet still anonymous) book.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am also, though obviously less anonymous.
  
  For me an actual religious experience has never included any sort of hallucinations. More than anything, I walk away with a sense of clarity, peace, and the feeling of having been in the presence of a power and love greater than anything I've ever known in human interaction. I've never had visions or heard voices, but have had many religious experiences.
  
  I think, given our respective histories, that to seriously be concerned about any type of hallucination is very wise.
  
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I've had a couple experiences where the "feeling" of God was deep in my soul, without any physical or even really mental feeling (although, of course, it was emotional). Is that the type of thing you are talking about?
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  What made you attribute the feeling to a god? The overall emotional feeling before it came? The circumstances? The state of emotions AFTER it came/left? That it was a different feeling that experienced before?
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I just "knew" it was God. However, I'm at the point where everything is suspect. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, I suppose. But there is very little that I can say I absolutely know is real. I can't even say God is real at this point, although it pains me to say that. I just don't know anymore.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the vast majority of believers explain their alleged religious experiences as feelings and emotions. But, we all have feelings and emotions, yet Christians have religious experiences of Jesus, Muslims have them with Allah, and so forth..., so it would appear the religious experiences are just something believers want to believe, but are nothing more than what everyone shares, feelings and emotions.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I might have to agree with you on that.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Try to stay firmly rooted; somewhere...
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, I can't. My mind is scattered. I've been through a lot.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Captivate your thoughts. It's doable. Start with what you KNOW and work from there.
  Caution: the mind must be ruled by the spirit of God to understand him. But, if you dont buy that, firmly root where your captivated mind goes. There are many roads; only one that leads to God. So, this should be easy.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for trying to help.
  
  My goal is to stay away from religious thought and discussion for the time being, but that obviously isn't working for me.
  
  I am trying to focus on my life, and family. Getting a job. Things like that.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are doing the right thing Jane.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I would agree.
  
  Jane, you seem to be a slightly different person than you were a while back, your thoughts are collected, reasonable and have continuity. Whatever it is that has changed, I like it.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You seem a bit different too ATM I cant really finger it yet...keep talking.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Do ye not know that your life is not more than food or rainment??? Consider the sparrow; is he not fed??? Something else about the grass that grows and is tossed into the fire.
  Bible paraphrase here...
  If your focus is there, focus there. God prefers us hot or cold. Lukewarm tastes bad to him.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's irresponsible to tell someone who as admitted to having delusional episodes and is on medication to listen to voices in her head. It's best that she understands that those voices or delusions are most likely not real.
  
  Please be responsible.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Forgive me Dr Rad... I lost my head... lol
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Was that a reference to Dr Lamb? Haven't seen him in a while.
  
  Please be responsible. That is a real person who is seeing professionals and seems to be on the mend.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You seem to be as learned as our dear DrLamb with your ethical conclusions... sounds like you have arrived; somewhere... I shall become "responsible" in a few minutes.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So tell me of YOUR experiences with God... feelings and emotions are most evident within your posts, especially.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That would certainly explain why you can't tell the difference considering my posts are mostly scarce of any emotions and feelings.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Is THAT what you think??? Lol...
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The major episode where I 'knew" it was God was a feeling I've never experienced before or since. It is unexplainable.
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know that I can empathize (sympathize) as I've never had a feeling that I ascribed to a god.
  
  But I cannot imagine any emotional feeling at all that would ever convince me that a god was there. Feelings come, feelings go, and they change in very mysterious ways. "Feelings", as far as I'm concerned are not proof of anything except that my mind does things that do not connect to reality.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it's not proof of anything. Probably just chemicals in my brain, or neurons doing whatever they do when thy aren't working right.
  
  I don't think meds will ever get them to work "right", but they do help.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It is.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I've had experiences that go beyond seeing and hearing. But if I can't trust the auditory/visual and known delusional experiences, than what can I trust?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  …It is possible to see the spiritual eye (a blue light) in the center of your forehead between the eyebrows and hear a flute like sound in your right ear. If you have heard or seen these you are not hallucinating.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I've seen all kinds of things. I've had concrete evidence that at least some of it isn't real. That's why I suspect the rest isn't real either.
  
  I can even possibly ascribe some of it to maybe a natural DMT experience. We do have it naturally in our brains. It's like free LSD, or ayahuasca. (Not that that's a good thing, by the way. Euphoria is great, but it's certainly not always euphoric).
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I certainly KNOW who I CAN'T trust.
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Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago
To me, a "religious experience" is sitting in "church" on the Sabbath day.
However, an experience of God which is a totally different thing in my opinion, is a deeply-seated soul/heart/open experience that completely encompasses the total being and brings with it an unexplainable feeling of love; peace; and joy. It seals the feeling of doubt outside and confirms that that has been at one time or another, obscure. Yes and when it's over (though never really over) Blessed assurance... oh! And goose pimples though warm all over.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago
...love or delusion?

love, of course!
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know what you mean.
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Emile Rposted 11 years ago
I consider it delusional to ascribe all experiences all people have had throughout the history of humanity, which they have determined to be of a religious nature, to delusion or hallucination.

I think it is more than reasonable to assume that some of said experiences have been misinterpreted, on some (or all) levels. I think it is also reasonable to assume that some people do lie about things that never happened.

If you have had an experience that cannot be explained through natural causes it is just as pointless to chalk it up to delusion as to religion. Both explanations are simply attempts to find an answer where none may currently exist. You don't have to explain the unexplainable.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Why does anything have to be unexplainable? That sounds a bit like giving up to me.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  ??? ask the depths of "the black hole"
  Or the original point of the wind... or 1Peter1:7-9
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's the rabbit hole:)
  
  I've been down this one one too many times I think anyway. Time for me to go outside an take a walk and enjoy the sunshine, maybe.
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I hope your weather is as lovely as ours today! Enjoy the walk.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cool! 8) see you when you get back...
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If you can't give an honest reply, why attempt to make things up? Chalking something up as unexplainable doesn't mean you give up attempting to find the answers. It means you understand that attributing meaning without being able to back it up with facts is dishonest.
  
  Think of it this way. If I claim to have seen a unicorn and insist that the unicorn sighting proved that there was a third moon of Saturn that contained a herd of unicorns. That the one I saw definitely suffered from a problem of wanderlust; because most unicorns prefer to move in herds. That this unicorn suffering from wanderlust was the harbinger of disaster; in that his inability to stay in the herd meant that other unicorns would soon wander and when they wandered the orbit of that moon of Saturn would be effected by the fact that so much weight had been removed from it. That moon would, eventually, fall out of orbit and crash into Saturn. That one disaster would cause all of the planets in our solar system to fall out of orbit and all humanity would die. ....... Would you say I was reading a little too much into a sighting of something that I couldn't explain through natural means?
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If you said all that it would easily be explainable through a natural means.
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  
  I saw a unicorn. Don't mock me.
  
  But, seriously. All I am saying is that unexplainable things do happen. It doesn't prove God. It doesn't prove anything. All it means is that something unexplainable happened. People don't need to read more into it than the information attained through the experience.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There are only things that are unexplainable now. If we label them unexplainable then we stop looking for an explanation.
  
  I'm glad you caught the humour.
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Seriously? I find unexplainable the most interesting things to think about and attempt to explain. So, what? Does your brain stop working when you are stumped by a question? I've never experienced that problem, myself.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It was Newton who said it was impossible to find the math that would explain the universe because it was done by God so he didn't bother trying. Someone else did a few years later.
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose, being compared to Newton isn't necessarily a bad thing.....however, I obviously am not Newton. Why would you arbitrarily assume something he said applied to me?
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Try just for a second to not think about yourself and how your brain works. For most people when they decide that Goddoneit they stop thinking. Think middle ages.
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Those are your assumptions. You should stop thinking about the way your brain works...maybe?
  
  Or, maybe your brain works as mine does. In that case, maybe you should stop assuming others aren't quite so bright.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wondering how goddunit is not a bad thing.
  Now, wondering IF he dun it...
  Faith is nonexistent if it accepts that maybe God didn't dun it... then, the wolves come out to suggest away until...even the very elite are fooled.
  Without God, there are a gazillion possibilities of what may have occurred to create such magnificence. And without an anchor, one is tossed to and fro by every new fangled idea.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  English please.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  God is the creator of the universe. It says so right...here! In the beginning...
  Now if OTHER authors have spoken louder; or more convincingly then faith lies in that report. But then; someone comes along and "corrects" the "most correct" argument of the day and the waves start rolling.
  I believe the bible. You and many others believe bits and pieces of all kinds of other stuff, including bits and pieces of the bible. Then they mix it all together and bake a FAKE CAKE that tastes REALLY good. But causes the worst ache because the "belly" is still empty. So, the next "cake" adds even more fillers using artificial flavorings until the cake explodes and the search for the "proper" ingredients begins again.
  You feel me???
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Are you going to start to speak English soon.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You're asking a lot, Rad.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Place your faith in God or man. Is that more understandable???
  God told us his plan. I mean laid it out full and complete. However, man is STILL searching.
  Is faith in God; or man's ability? That is a really good question.
  Got it? Or do I need to give the PREschool version? I AM prepared to do so if necessary...
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure you are prepared for the preschool version, but we have advanced well beyond preschool, thanks. We are now at the point in life referred to as "adult".
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well you may want to speak for yourself on that one. Rad was not getting the adult version. It seemed that it sounded like a foreign language to him.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That is just another way of saying "I refuse to learn anything"
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No. I refuse to accept everything I "learn" if it does not align with where I have ALREADY placed my faith.
  Teach away...
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You will refuse to "learn" anything you don't already "know"?
  
  I take it that the quest for knowledge is not one you follow?
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I only know a few things. but if you want to teach me something else, it's got to align with those few. You got info I dont know that would help me "arise" to "acceptable" levels of consciousness???
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but unfortunately, to understand and grasp reality, one has to actually learn more than just a few things beyond the invisible and magical.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't think you knew that!!!
  Hope after all...
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If "new" knowledge "aligns" with what is already known, it, too, must already be known in bulk if not detail.
  
  It must be nice to already know everything of value, although I confess I would be bored to death if there were not always something new to learn. A difference in philosophy and values I suspect, but I'm sorry for you.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It would be boring if you knew everything. Learning isn't always fun (but most of the time, it is).
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  +1 If I couldn't continue to learn life would not be worth living.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Learn all you want.
  Seems it gets you nowhere because you still search... but it is not my issue. You can learn many false things. Now if you are SURE that there is no God; no matter how I speak about him; you learn NOTHING of him...I guess I see what you mean.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wilderness is agnostic, I think. He doesn't dismiss God outright, as far as I can tell.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know means no... Wilderness has made very clear his NO.
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  To my knowledge not a single person has ever learned a single fact about any god. In spite of millions of people claiming otherwise, they only have opinions and beliefs.
  
  But there is a whole universe out there to learn about - actual, verifiable knowledge that we can use to improve our lives or just enjoy the learning process.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. They have you exactly where they want you...
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well, whoever "they" are, I'm happy as long as "they" keep feeding me new knowledge and understanding. It's fun, and so much better than making up my own stories that I know have no connection to reality.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  They are those forces I spoke of earlier. They convince people that they are learning new information when there IS nothing new. They just recycle and refeed and their gobblers come in droves...
  Have you ever seen Richard Pryor in The Wiz??? During the dance scene of the subjects in Oz; the Wiz changed the color every chorus. And the subjects changed colors and danced to his music just as quickly. This movie was made when I was very young and I had NO idea that it was prophetic of our current times. I wonder what color they will think of next...
  God never changes. I kinda like stability. I dont have that many outfits. Lol
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Learning is not about getting nowhere and searching, that couldn't be further from the truth. We search for more things to learn because there are a lot of things to learn. Of course, it gets us somewhere, you wouldn't have a computer or internet connection if it didn't get us anywhere. We'd all still be living in caves.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Let's talk about what we're talking about. I can probably out-read or out-think anyone in the room. But I have boundaries on that learning. If it crosses God's territory, and does not agree; it is tossed. But I got lots of filtered knowledge on other stuff.
  The sq root of 4 is 2. The Statue of Liberty is tall. Cats have 4 legs; 2 eyes. A ton is 2000 pounds. There are 26 letters in the English alphabet (unless Prince already added his letter). See. Im just BURSTIN'
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "If it crosses God's territory, and does not agree; it is tossed."
  
  Then you are not interested in learning or in gaining knowledge. Because a great deal of "God's territory" is simply false, or untrue yet you will retain it, calling it truth in spite of knowing better. Certainly your choice, but it cannot be called "learning" to invent new scenarios to "God's territory" based on nothing but imagination.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Gods territory is truth. And i'm starting to get the feeling that you do not believe that.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Being intelligent has nothing to do with being open minded. I am dumb as a nail, you could probably dance around me four or five times in the intelligence department.
  
  But my mind is about as open as you can get. (Maybe too much)
  
  But learning is fabulous, nothing wrong with it at all.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Openmindedness can be dangerous. Did you google the scripture?
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, I didn't Google it. I know I am open-minded. I don't think it is dangerous at all.
  
  I think it is a benefit for me. I am perhaps TOO open minded, and lack stability because of it. But I am also working on finding that stability for myself. I work at it continuously. I pick apart everything about myself to find out who I am, and where I stand on what issues. I want to be the best person I can be. That is one of my goals in life. Perhaps God is helping me with this, behind the scenes. I don't know. But if I keep working on myself, someday I will understand myself,and what makes me tick.
  
  There is only ONE thing I know in the entire Universe. That I will choose good over bad. I may occasionally waver, but never for long, and I always right myself when I find myself tipping. If there is one benefit to my mental illness, it is that of self-improvement. I might not even always be able to figure out what is right or wrong in a given situation, but I will keep trying to figure these things out.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The bible knew you'd say that. Look at this:
  Ephesians 4:14
  
  King James Version (KJV)14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
  
  Who would you say the deceiver is? God???
  
  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING anyone could say to make me doubt God. I've been the recipient of so much of him throughout my life.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe I am being deceived by anyone.
  
  But you already know I don't believe in the guy from Down Under.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You don't believe in Crocodile Dundee? are you afraid to speak the name of the nonexistent?
  Just rhetoric.
  You do not believe the bible. So I would expect that you do not accept a LOT that it says. No issue between us.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in Satan. I am not afraid to say that.
  
  Crocodile Dundee is a different story though, he's kind of cute in a rough kind of way.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes! He's cute.
  I really didn't think you were afraid to say it. Lol...
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Not as cute as President Obama though.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Actually. To me...same kinda cute.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think men in their forties are the best looking. I know he's a bit older than that, but still. A great looking man.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Now Dundee (I mesn Paul Hogan) old now. Crocodile Dundee though... now he was cute. And manly; and rugged; and handy. President Obama...cute; and manly enough. But he is much younger, I think.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I actually was a bit afraid to say it. I had to make myself say it out loud. It was unpleasant, but I did it. It was a bit refreshing.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Lol!!! So the imaginary frightens...
  I'm glad you faced your fear. Lol
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  But it was real to me for quite a while.
  
  You have to remember, I can't always tell what is real and what isn't. That's what the pills are for.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No way to know everything...yet the search is on.
  When you know that you know that two plus two is four; you may only build upon that knowledge. Not learn it over and over again.
  When you learn that Christ is the way; you no longer need to search for the way, you build upon and find out all there is to know about THAT. You no longer need a "leader" you have one. And you go where he sends you. Not keep searching for a truer truth. Aint one...yet...
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Kiss my Atlas, Wilderness. to me, all valuable info is in the bible. I hate that not everyone here feels that way. But we've got pride in self, faith in mere mortals SUCH AS the self, and skepticism of truth to contend with. Save your pity. You may need it...
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  How much do you hate? Did your religion teach you how to hate? What's it like to hate something?
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!!! I MEAN THAT LITERALLY!!! ALMOST BLEW A GASKET...
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This is really important.
  
  http://www.upworthy.com/a-science-icon- … s-5?c=ufb2
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Please explain it to me. It did not pop-up fast enough.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That is basically saying the same thing, you refuse to learn anything. We all know that.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I learn... just not haphazzardly. I cannot buy all wares. There are forces that seek to trip me up, and steal my seed. However, my "firewall" is impenetrable. I'm grateful...
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'd ask if ANY other person may concur with you. If you had millions...I may just look for one horned horses...
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well....maybe if millions could concur the third moon of Saturn would have already fallen out of orbit. Let's hope, for the sake of humanity, we have no more sightings.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Your scenario... shrugs. Ok, no more sightings! I will concur with you on that!!!
  Too bad you spent all that time putting together your lesson plan...
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "I consider it delusional to ascribe all experiences all people have had throughout the history of humanity, which they have determined to be of a religious nature, to delusion or hallucination.
  
  I don't think I said anything like that. In fact, I was obviously describing personal experience. I think it's reasonable that since SOME of my episodes were proven to be delusional, that they all were. Why would God play games? Doesn't make much sense to me.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It is "delusional" Dear Sirs, to consider thyselves capable of understanding all that there is...
  Can YOU draw out the construction processes of those very big, very evident tombs in Egypt??? Can you figure the way for me to flap my legs and arms in such a way as to give me flight like the bald eagle (I'll even take chicken flight. The streets are hard to cross in Chicago.)??? The recipe for my grandmother's 7up cake with that clear tart frosting???
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Is there something wrong with trying to understand things? I would be satisfied with just a general answer on some things. Like if God cam down to me and said, "yes, I exist, and this is why you're here" I would probably stop asking the question.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Not if you consider the circumstances of that visit a really delusional day for you... the "proof" comes from the heart/spirit. Not visions. ATM can ALWAYS explain visions.
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are the one who has inserted the word God into the equation. But, anyway. Only you can determine if your experiences can be attributed to delusion, or not. I have no idea what your experiences are.
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  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's not true. Professionals can determine if someone's experiences can be attributed to delusions or psychosis. The patient can't because the delusions and hallucinations seem real to them.
  
  If you say a unicorn with your description and relayed that to a professional they would determine that that hallucinations was not real.
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That is patently untrue. Yes. Hallucinations do happen. However, just because someone else attributes an experience to hallucination doesn't necessarily mean someone experienced an hallucination. Everybody laughed at me once because I went out for a smoke break and saw a bob cat. It was kind of stupid, really. It isn't like they are extinct. They simply didn't think a bobcat would have been in that particular area at that time. I didn't hallucinate. It was that no one believed me. It didn't matter whether they believed me, or not. I know what a bob cat looks like and I know what I saw.
  
  As in other situations. The individual involved is the one most able to determine if what they experienced was real, or not. If you discuss it with a professional they can assist in helping you to determine if it was imagined, or not. They can help you understand why you might have thought you saw something you didn't. But, if you actually saw something it wouldn't matter whether anyone believed you or not. What is important is if you trust yourself enough to know what you saw was real.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  .
  
  "As in other situations. The individual involved is the one most able to determine if what they experienced was real, or not. If you discuss it with a professional they can assist in helping you to determine if it was imagined, or not. They can help you understand why you might have thought you saw something you didn't. But, if you actually saw something it wouldn't matter whether anyone believed you or not. What is important is if you trust yourself enough to know what you saw was real."
  
  Have you ever experienced hallucinations or delusions? I have. I didn't know they weren't real, at the time. I had to be shown evidence that they weren't real, later, after med changes. I saw how what I thought was real at the time was only in my mind. It's actually pretty scary. Luckily, I have certain "feelings" that tend to go along with delusions or hallucinations, so I can better determine whether or not something's real or not. Still, I have to ask people whether certain things are there or not.
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  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  As I said. If you discuss it with a professional, they can help you determine if it was real, or not. Sounds like you got help and were able to determine that you were hallucinating. I'm afraid everyone doesn't hallucinate. We can't make general assumptions about the experiences of others from the experiences of one individual.
  
  Your story about the writing in the bathroom was interesting. It must have freaked you out to think someone wrote something directed at you on a bathroom wall at a random rest stop.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It did freak me out. But that was par for the course by then. I was getting those (delusions of reference) almost constantly by then. Movies, the Internet, anywhere.
  
  Now, if I think anything is directed towards me, I just make a note of it for my log, and ignore it the best I can.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So why all the questions? If you know that the unexplainable need not be explained; what in your opinion, drives the carnal to consistently question spiritual things??? It is mind boggling that someone who has ALREADY been told that there is no adequate explanation to describe spiritual things to consistently question the unexplainable phenomenon.
  Seems kinda like a set-up to me. But I guess there arent many OTHER ways to despute the indesputable than to run it around the mulberry a few times... lol
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing's indisputable.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oops... I KEPT looking at that word, thanks...
  Indisputable is the spirit of God. No one has a clue...but those with faith that grows.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Even the existence of God is disputable for me.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I know. You seem to be a turnip phlebotomist... aint no blood in there...
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  On one hand, I see your point. Especially after we feel like we've answered all the questions reasonably and like the ones that keep coming aren't really any different than the ones before.
  
  But human beings are absolutely, insatiably curious. We will likely question until we shuffle off this mortal coil.
  
  Questioning doesn't seem so awful to me, as long as I'm going to the right place for answers. You and I have found our right place. Others are still searching.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No way to suck blood from a turnip. no matter HOW curious about the color you are...
  Spirit and flesh are worlds apart and never the two shall meet. You can never explain the fullness of something so intangible. Yet...
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Then we have to turn that logic back on us as believers. Why try? When a wall is up that neither party can (or is willing to) take down, why do we all stand and beat our heads against it rather than just living and praying happily on our own side until it comes down over time?
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cuz we KEEP getting the questions. and you know what the bible says. We need to give an answer. Someone who is open to God will "hear".
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  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  An answer. One. I know it seems that we're often at odds, Genaea, when it comes to spiritual matters. I just think that, for us, there is one answer. It doesn't satisfy. Simply saying to others that you don't have an answer that will work for them acknowledges no deficiency in faith, just an unwillingness to fight. I admit that no amount of logic or rational discussion can or will convince anyone of the truths that I claim. But I have a reason for it. They can take or leave those reasons, but it doesn't change them for me. Or make me less willing to talk to them. A point always comes where I can say that I have nothing more to offer that will further the conversation, but that doesn't mean that it ends, so much as it changes, and new avenues open up for growth and understanding. Like knowing that some people are audio v. visual learners. Others need hands on stuff. If I can only present in one methodology, maybe it takes a new type of direction. Make sense? Like I LOVE my GPS. Spoken turn by turn works for me. I'm absolutely going to get lost if I'm expected to read a map.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Bingo!!! so you say that some require a good talking through it to make it to their intended destination??? God knew that. I hear your one. But does your GPS stop after one direction??? Or does the lovely time saver keep talking until you find the way to your destination??? One answer is not sufficient. It takes many turns. The road is narrow and specific. All other roads eventually come to a dead end. Jesus is the GPS. he leads the way to the father by himself. He wrote out the map; and told us to follow it precisely (I mean he said "obey my commands") one being "preach"...
  If you believe as WE believe...
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  How easy and very very sad to deny the validity of the NT! How do you confront those naysayers, Cgenaea?
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This is obviously something believers have just made up out of thin air, just like they made up "spirit" out of thin air so that they might believe they are special, "tuned in" to another invisible realm the rest of us can only dream about.
  
  The only difference is that we're awake.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't make this up... lol
  It is written!!! For all to see. Do YOU see it??? You don't have to answer; I know... THAT is written too.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The thinking, inquisitive mind is not satisfied with unexplainable phenomenon and wishes to seek answers. Not magical answers, of course, but real answers, the kind that make sense and follow reality. Magical answers are not answers at all, they are just made up nonsensical excuses that mask real answers, the kind that believers don't want to hear. And, that is what it all boils down, what believers want and don't want to hear about reality.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes! The thinking inqiusitive questioning and ever unsure mind is seeking. However, the spiritual mind that carries the spirit of God knows already. Get it yet??? Unexplainable is just that. You gotta feeeeel (in my best Bruce Lee... ) you cannot feeeeel if you think too much. You miss reality when you rely on your own understanding. Would you tell the world the answers to ITS unexplainables already... we've been WAITING for someone so apt.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I get it. The "spiritual mind" believes they are special and know things that others don't through their alleged magical means. It's really quite simple to understand.
  
  That is a direct contradiction to what we observe about reality and understanding.
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Speak for yourself...
  We got some big triangles in Egypt that no one can explain...but no doubt they were built...no doubt; still standing... and that is just ONE reality that you can see big as day and yet, your explanation is absent. Will you realize already that this battle already has a winner; and it aint your mind??? Lol...
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That is what is referred to as a Strawman argument.
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janesixposted 11 years ago
One way I determined I was hallucinating was this. On the way to the hospital (while actively psychotic), I stopped at a rest area. There were words written on a wall that I thought were written for me personally.

On the way back a week later (after a med change, and not actively psychotic), I stopped at the same rest area. I checked the wall specifically to see if the writing was there. It was, but it wasn't the way I saw it the first time. The letters were different. So, not only was it a visual hallucination, but it was also a delusion of reference, as well as paranoia.

The mind plays games, to go along with your preferred delusion. It's scary how it works.

It was a relief to see that I was only hallucinating the first time.
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awareposted 11 years ago
goosebumps .that's how u tell.
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  ?
  
  That's how you tell what? That something isn't real? Or that something is a religious experience?
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  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, faith. Seems you are not aware of that fact...
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awareposted 11 years ago
the latter
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  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you just need to put a sweater on.
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awareposted 11 years ago
sperio in dio . hope in god. I am aware.
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Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago
Book aware? Or personally aware from inside? You know, there is a difference...
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janesixposted 11 years ago
List of Gods I've thought I was at some time or other:

Athena
Nepthys
Nepthys/Set
Ma'at (Justice)
Sopia (Wisdom)
A Nephilim
Jesus (or avatar of Buddha/Jesus etc)
God
Persephone (Kore)
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