Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral reli

Jump to Last Post 1-2 of 2 discussions (9 posts)
  1. Gnostic Bishop profile image58
    Gnostic Bishopposted 3 years ago

    Christianity is based on substitutionary atonement. Is it a moral religion?

    The case of substitutionary atonement that I wish to speak of is when God deemed it moral and just to punish his innocent son Jesus, --- instead of punishing the guilty sinners that God was to condemn.

    The strange part of this situation is that God had chosen to sacrifice Jesus even before the potential for sin was created, --- God had yet to create the earth, --- showing that what God was killing Jesus for, --- he had yet to create.

    This was an arbitrary choice for God that was completely needless. God could have chosen to punish the guilty, --- what most call justice, --- or God could have found a moral way to forgive us. Instead, God chose to do the unjust and punish the innocent instead of the guilty. 

    The sacrifice was to pay or bribe God to change his usual policy of punishing the guilty to immorally punishing Jesus. God could have shown mercy and justice but instead decided to use an unjust method to forgive us.

    That means that to be a good Christian, you have to accept and embrace the immoral tenet of human sacrifice and the notion that the best form of justice, --- when one wants to forgive someone, --- is to kill an innocent party.

    As above so below.

    At the end of days, God is to bring his law to earth.

    Would you, as an innocent party, think it just if God punished you instead of the guilty?

    Do you think that Jesus would ever preach such an immoral form of justice?

    Regards
    DL

  2. profile image0
    SirDentposted 3 years ago

    Suppose you had a son or daughter who became addicted to hard drugs in their early 20's.  Always looking for the next fix.  They are broke and can't afford to buy their next bag.  They kill a man to rob him and after being caught and tried, they are sentenced to death by lethal injection.

    Would you love that son or daughter enough to take his/her place and die instead of he/she?

    This is exactly what God did in the form of Jesus Christ.  He loves man so much that He gave the best that He has to offer for our freedom from death.  The Bible states, "For God so loved that world that He GAVE His only begotten Som that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." 

    I emphasized the word "gave" on purpose in that verse.  So now you can see that it is not about human sacrifice but the ultimate sacrifice, a one time deal and it is done.

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Wow, that story is nothing like the story of Jesus. First off, God set up the rules, he decided what was right or wrong and his laws or sense of morality was so vastly different than our own and so incredibly barbaric that humans couldn't adhere so he tells to sacrifice our livestock in order to show him we are sorry, which is decribed as a bloody mess and something that is pleasing to God. Remember these are rules and laws set up by him, he could have simply forgiven us, but he decided barbarism would be best. I guess he eventually grew tired of all the killings so he split himself apart and was born a man. During this time there was apparently no connection between the two and to make us pay for our sins he killed himself (human sacrifice) so they we no longer have to kill animals to repent. The thing is humans made no sacrifice. it's rather like killing someone else to make someone else be guilt free.

      So, if we take your scenario, the kid did some bad things, so in order that he is forgiven lets have him kill someone that he knows to show us he is sorry.

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Given your scenario, plus omnipotence, I would have chosen to cure my child of their addiction prior to their killing someone - not kill someone else in a futile gesture to convince a third party I forgive them, too.  Love does not demand human sacrifice.

      1. profile image0
        Rad Manposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Especially if it was the parent who gave the kid the drugs in the first place.

    3. Righteous Atheist profile image60
      Righteous Atheistposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And when you say "gave" I think you meant "loaned for three days" right?

      Second best thing he could give for 3 days out of 13,800,000,000 years? Not impressed. Not impressed at all.

      1. Jomine Jose profile image71
        Jomine Joseposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Nope, not three days but two days.
        But why did he stop it after once, dramas are played many times.  He might have realized it as a failure!!

    4. Jomine Jose profile image71
      Jomine Joseposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      There is nothing more to add after RadMan's wilderness's and RA's comment, still
      Even if I agree will the judge agree?
      If the judge agree, will that be justice?
      Whose purpose does that punishment serve?
      Who decide that someone has to be killed for atonement of murder?

    5. Jomine Jose profile image71
      Jomine Joseposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Suppose Clovis has three sons, Tom,  Dick and Harry and Dick killed Harry. For Clovis to forgive Dick, does Tom got to kill himself or remain comatosed for 2 days?
      To put it in christian perspective does Clovis have to act dead for two days for him to forgive Dick?

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://hubpages.com/privacy-policy#gdpr

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)