Children's Faith Real ?

1. 60

   Phil Perezposted 8 years ago

   Yesterday, while I was walking through the park with my girlfriend, I happened to see a couple hiding in the pine trees - underneath them. They were cuddling and and kissing. One of them happened to a Muslim teenage girl (from what I was able to notice). This is Haram according to Muslim culture. But she apparently doesn't understand that.
   
   It's obvious this girl is religious for someone else's sake. Children (under 18) cannot begin to understand the complexities of religion; adults don't even understand it, and the children are coerced into it because adults don't see what they believe in would not be taught. Except there's a difference between taught and forced. I notice many under aged people trying not to disappoint their parents.
   
   It's terrible that she cannot find herself because of the pressure that has been placed on her to conform and do what her parents tell her. Obviously her parents are scared she'll go to "Hell" if she doesn't believe in Islam, but it's that exact ignorance that will not let her grow into the person she truly wants to become.
   
   I know this is one example of one person and does not represent the whole population of children under 18, but I think, because of the lack of knowledge they possess, they aren't ready to begin believing in something their minds do not fully comprehend; if at all...
   
   Everyone's different and everyone will look for their answers with their parents'/guardian's support.
   It's just incredibly sad to see this happen, disgusting really. To limit your potential is one of the most sickening acts someone can do.
   
   What do you think?

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2. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 8 years ago

   Or maybe she actually is a Muslim but not a fundamentalist one, just like all those bacon-eating, divorced or tattooed Christians.
   
   In any case, I was raised by a mother who believes in God but have never believed in God.  You can be raised in but not of a faith without experiencing a moment of conflict over it.  I think it is quite unrealistic to expect parents not to raise children in their faith, but it can be done with respect for their growing autonomy if that faith is not fundamentalist.

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      Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I, too, have been raised by a Theistic mother. I was a believer in religion and God, too, at one point in my life.
      
      Except what you say in the first paragraph contradicts because you can't be something if you don't believe in the rules it is asking you to follow. Obviously, no one believes in a religion completely, because there is so much to memorize and understand that our conscious cannot possibly retain that information all at once as well other information that does not have to do with religion. But, there are some rules that would seem "more important" than others.
      
      I agree that it unrealistic not to raise their children to their faith. But it's up to their children to succeed them. Find the answers that their parents could not in their lifetime. A child is logically supposed to further the knowledge and find more so that their children may do the same.
      
      The teenage girl who was disobeying her religion is actually smart, because she's seeking answers in other places than the ones she's accustomed to. No religion is absolute. That's why religion conversion happens more often than not.

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3. 57

   Jane Errposted 8 years ago

   The sad thing is, the girl in this blog may be "experimenting" but in her case IT COULD BE DEADLY.  Islam had no room for childhood mistakes.  It has no room for forgiveness.  It has no room for individuality nor room for understanding frailty.  It is the most unforgiving, violent and brutal religion.  There was a time when people actually believed if they tossed a virgin into a volcano it would appease the volcano god.  Duped?  Stupid? Well......they believed it.

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4. 78

   Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

   I think you are referring to teenagers, not children.
   Big difference.
   Teenagers past 15 are starting to think for themselves.

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   1. 60

      Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      That's why I didn't say one girl doesn't represent all the people under 18. I still consider everyone under 18 a child. I'm barely past 18 and most people around my age (younger and older) are moronic. I'm in my twenties, haha.
      
      Of course, some over 15 can think for themselves, but it's a rare few. I ONLY started thinking for myself and trying to find who I was when I was 15 actually.

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         janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think you are giving teens enough credit.
         
         Older people are more wet in their ways. Teens seem more open minded to me.

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         1. 60

            Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            But what's flawed about that is, teens are open minded to almost everything because they are ignorant to almost everything. I'm not saying others aren't such as adults and the elderly but the tendency is higher due to a lack of life experience. Of course, not all teens, but I think most are unsure of what to believe and how to properly reason what is "truer" than the next. They overlook too much reason because of the inability to reason further than a certain point. I've met intelligent teenagers (for their age group) I won't deny that, but there are still too many "normal" teens who cannot out-think a "normal" adult.
            
            It's a shame older people are stuck in their ways, but the logic goes that through all they've experienced in their lives what they know now cannot be wrong just because of deducing the illogical to the best of their capabilities. After a certain point they've exhausted their ability to further their logic, to the point that it's become a strain to think deeply. But again, I'm giving a generalization. Not every teen, adult or elderly person is this way.

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5. 62

   mishpatposted 8 years ago

   Reaction, Thinking or Reasoning?  An infant reacts from an autonomous mode.  A child thinks from a very early age.  Reasoning, a later process, but not much later, follows thinking.
   
   Decision making is begun at an early age.  Proper decision making comes shortly after analyzing the subject to some degree and learning about the "ins and outs" and repercussions, a low level reasoning.
   
   Reasoning out the far reaching rewards or repercussions comes later. 
   
   "Moderns" societies have stunted much of peoples' proper reasoning ability with rewards for indolence and shameless industry, and a lack of repercussion for either's misuse.
   
   "Children's Faith" is based on the ability to understand.  They may mouth certain words or phrases or prayers, but unless they understand them, reasoning at the most basic level, there can be no decision, hence there is no real belief, just an acquiescence.

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   1. 61

      janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Children start reasoning around the age of seven. That's when they start to question things like Santa Clause.

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   2. 60

      Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      When I was "religious" I was young, I was a preteen. I still didn't know why I was doing it. I was doing it for someone whom I believe existed. That I didn't want to disappoint. Much like my parents. Except, if God is better than my parents, God SHOULD be more, if not completely accepting of who I am, even though I do not and still do not know who that is (me). Then reasoning came into the picture, I began to try becoming more self-aware. Because whether God exists or not makes me understand that I cannot disappoint God that already accepts me because He has that level of expectation already so it's futile to try and think otherwise.  But I won't get into why religion is flawed or not, that isn't the point of this thread.
      
      The point is why should any young person who is not really ready as they portray to be religious remain religious ? That's the question. Their lack of self-awareness and understanding blocks them from proper decision-making.  But not all children or adults for that matter. I won't generalize because like I said, there are a select few who are resilient in understanding. However, this girl I mention, is just figuring out to try to reason when she's been indoctrinated most of her life. I don't mean to use the word harshly, just that she's been taught not to think for herself and just believe what her parents teach her without questioning it or wondering why for herself and not for anyone else.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I think you are on to something here.

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      2. 62

         mishpatposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Self awareness is not a "religious" concept.
         
         Basically, the parent is to teach and steer the child in that which is proper and useful.  The child is to obey the parent until such time as they are not a dependent.  That's the way things should work.  However, social programs on the one hand and extreme variants on the other have upset the balance.
         
         As to believing what they are taught and what they are taught about God, there is a time when every human will reach an "age of accountability."  At the point they must make personal rational, reasoned decisions regarding these two.  There may be a segment of time when these overlap.  That has to be worked out in a reasonable fashion also.  But open displays of "things" which go against the parents beliefs and wishes are nothing more than purposefully disgracing the parent, not the belief.

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         1. 60

            Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you for your first line, mishpat. Except your last sentence is false because the she's also disgracing the belief. Because she's believing in something when she doesn't know why is a problem with herself towards the belief. I'm not saying the belief is right or wrong, but to have a belief there must be a set of rules and she isn't abiding by those rules to be able to say she believes in it. As well as not believing in her parents to be convinced that Islam is the way to go. She's too young to make accurate and rational decisions now. She's a teenager and no teenager is living on their own paying their own bills and taking up responsibility like they should only because they do not have the independence to do it. Of course, some do under 18 but most don't. That's why there's a law about under aged people owning or putting anything in their name.
            
            But anyways, I found it terrible at first, but after thinking about it, I was proud that she's willing to open her mind, because no one knows which religion (if any) is the right one, so she wants to figure it out on her own by leading her own path with the support of her parents but the protection of them, too.

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            1. 62

               mishpatposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               My point was this...
               
               We don't really know what she believed at that time.  We can be fairly certain she knows what her folks believe.  So we don't know if she is directing her attitude toward her parents beliefs but we can be fairly certain she would know the embarrassment or discomfort this type of activity would cause them.
               
               As to accountability, circumstances can and do dictate when young folks will have to start making logical decisions.  We see children at 4 and 5 making decisions that have to be made in stressful situations.  We also see young adults not making (good) decisions because they don't have to.
               
               Man does not really understand the capabilities of man.  And young folks are a lot more intelligent the many give them credit for.

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6. 58

   dodichanadiposted 8 years ago

   I think it all depends on the parents, how they teach religious beliefs, religion is not for force, but how to understand

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   1. 60

      Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      But religious parents who are obsessed with religion, teach their children all about it as if the end of the world was going to happen. Then, they fear that if they live life any other way that they wouldn't know what to do.
      
      I personally feel like religious parents are worse than when a child wants to go into music in college but the parents won't let them because it won't grant them a successful career. If you understood that comparison...

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