Christianity and Some Issues

1. 51

   casey_wlkrposted 14 years ago

   I am currently dealing with a number of issues with Christianity and I have to say that they're very hard for me to get past.  I am a Christian and firmly believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins but I really have some major hang-ups over some issues.
   
   Eternity
   
   Either you believe that we have been and always will be in existence in one way or another or you believe that God created us at birth/conception or some time in between;  either way there is a major logical flaw.
   
   If you believe that every soul has always existed as a Christian it seems cruel and illogical that we would be given a life time (60-90 years) on earth to deem weather we go to heaven or hell.  That doesn't make sense if you think about infinity and that if we had existed prior to being born.  We could have been the greatest thing in existence for trillions of years but our final destination is relative to a blip on the screen to our entire existence (our life time).
   
   Furthermore, if we have always existed than our souls would pre-date creation.  Where where our souls?
   
   If you believe that we have existed since birth/conception or sometime in between than we as Christians are forced to believe in nothingness.  If we once were nothing then logically we can return to nothing. 
   
   If there is a combination of the above (meaning some people have souls that are made for eternity and other people simply have a soul that is made for their lifetime or they simply do not have a soul at all) than what does that mean for existence? 
   
   Taking the Old Testament Literally
   
   Honestly, it is really hard to believe that everything in the OT is 100% true.  There are so  many flaws within the OT that it makes my head spin.  The time line of Adam and Eve, the different accounts of creation (Lilith), Noah and the Ark and well basically the whole book of Genesis.  The OT has so many inconstancies with history it just brings me doubt.  The problem with that doubt is that it is in some way carried over to the New Testament due to the writings of the NT are based on OT philosophy.  It discredits the NT.  The way I see it is that a man can write a book of truths and have 1 lie or exaggeration  the book is still a lie because of the screaming flaw. 
   
   So there, I got it off my chest.  I really feel that I am one step away from calling myself an agnostic but I really don't want to.  I want to believe everything in the Bible as truth but I'm having a very hard time.  I have felt the Holy Spirit at one time in my life and have faith in the Holy Trinity yet somehow I can not just take everything on faith.

   replyreport
   1. 0

      Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      With complete lack of irony (and cannot believe I'm doing this), you perhaps realize 'truth' does not have to equate with human belief?  If you realized that, it shouldn't logically necessarily lead you to agnosticism.

      replyreport
   2. 61

      GreatContentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If you walk in obedience to the Torah, which is the law of Yehwah that is outlined in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, and you will gain wisdom and understanding of Yehwah our father. By keeping Torah, you will be showing your love for Yehwah, and he will draw near to you, and you will be able to feel His presence, and have you trust secured in him.
      
      My heart felt advice to you is to love Yehwah with all your being, and love your fellow man as yourself, and you do this by keeping Torah. YOU WILL experience Yehwah like never before. Begin your studies in Torah, and LOVE YEHWAH!
      
      Shalom

      replyreport
   3. 65

      Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think we would be wrong to believe that we were in God's mind up to the time that God created us at conception.  An all knowing God.  I think we can consider our short time here on earth as a test.
      
      You may have heard that the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament.  Meaning most of the prophecies from the Old Testament have been revealed in the New Testament and some are yet to happen.
      
      Lilith wasn't written about by Jews until the middle ages.  Lilith originally appeared in Sumerian text as a demon.  Lilith later appears as a night demon in Jewish folklore and sometimes is falsely named for Adam's first wife.
      
      Keep the faith my friend.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Keep the faith dude. Don't ask any questions. "Rational thinking is the death of religion."
         
         Just because it makes no sense, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe it.

         replyreport
   4. 74

      glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Every thinking believer goes through this journey.  I pray and fast and meditate.  I am also buoyed up by my encounter with the divine through prayer and experience.  As well as the testimonies of others.  Find a mentor in your church who can pray with you.
      
      There is a lovely little book called Steps to Christ which has a chapter on doubt.  Here are a few of the statements you may find helpful:
      
      "Christ has said, "If any man willeth to do His will, he shall know of the teaching." John 7:17, R.V. ... By the grace of Christ, perform every duty that has been made plain to your understanding, and you will be enabled to understand and perform those of which you are now in doubt.  {SC 111.2}
           There is an evidence that is open to all,--the most highly educated, and the most illiterate,--the evidence of experience. God invites us to prove for ourselves the reality of His word, the truth of His promises. He bids us "taste and see that the Lord is good." Psalm 34:8. Instead of depending upon the word of another, we are to taste for ourselves. He declares, "Ask, and ye shall receive." John 16:24. His promises will be
                                                                                  112
      fulfilled. They have never failed; they never can fail. And as we draw near to Jesus, and rejoice in the fullness of His love, our doubt and darkness will disappear in the light of His presence.  {SC 111.3}
           The apostle Paul says that God "hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son." Colossians 1:13. And everyone who has passed from death unto life is able to "set to his seal that God is true." John 3:33. He can testify, "I needed help, and I found it in Jesus. Every want was supplied, the hunger of my soul was satisfied; and now the Bible is to me the revelation of Jesus Christ. Do you ask why I believe in Jesus? Because He is to me a divine Saviour. Why do I believe the Bible? Because I have found it to be the voice of God to my soul." We may have the witness in ourselves that the Bible is true, that Christ is the Son of God. We know that we are not following cunningly devised fables.  {SC 112.1}"

      replyreport
   5. 60

      David Bowmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Just sounds to me like you have matured intellectually and are now thinking for yourself. Don't stop thinking. Challenge your preconceptions. Don't settle on the advice of those who will just tell you to "have faith." You are an individual who is capable of working these things out for yourself.

      replyreport
   6. 64

      Lady_Eposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Seems to me like you've got one leg in and one leg out.

      replyreport
   7. 89

      Bibowenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You have a lot here. I can't hit all of it, but here is some response.
      
      Our soul, like all else, is a creation. I'm not sure when it begins but I don't believe the soul is eternal in the past. We had a distinct beginning. However, it appears that once God gave us life, that life continues on, even beyond this one. I don't see why you think that's illogical. There is nothing logically binding that says that if we will be eternal in the future, we must also have been eternal in the past.
      
      As for "nothingness," the Christian teaching is that God created the universe from nothing. There are elements about this that are probably inexplicable. After all, how could God create something from nothing? But, a maximally powerful being can. The existence of the material universe is the result of His will. As a omnipotent being, He is not bound by the fact that nothing material exists prior to His creating it.
      
      And besides, you can't embrace "nothing" (because there's nothing to embrace!). You and I certainly exist; if we deny that, there is no sense in asking all the questions.
      
      I believe that the purpose for our existence is to enjoy God for eternity. That begins now. I think the span of time in which we get to choose for/against God is irrelevant. Given eternity, how long is "long enough"? Even if we had a thousand years, it still is a short amount of time, given eternity. In fact, any amount of time in light of eternity is not "long enough."
      
      Also, it might be God's mercy that keeps the period of time short. Given the sinfulness of man's condition, he might be less likely to turn to God the longer he lives. So, I would not jump the gun to think that the short time that we have in this life is "God's impatience" or "God's unfairness" in not giving us more time. It might very well be His mercy.

      replyreport
   8. 74

      glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If you regard the words of Christ at all you will notice that He quotes from the OT.
      
      He refers to creation, the patriarchs, the law, Daniel etc.  So Jesus did not discredit the OT.  He magnified the OT.

      replyreport
   9. 60

      fishmoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nothing in the Bible and in true Christianity that says you are given 60-90 years to deem whether we go to heaven or hell.  Religion says that.
      
      
      
      Being in existence prior to being born is a religious concept, not a Biblical one.
      
      
      
      The only greatest thing in existence who is eternal is God.
      
      
      
      Ask your guru.
      
      
      
      I smell an atheist in you, not a Christian.
      
      
      
      
      You don't have to believe anything God has not given you the faith to believe.
      
      
      
      Who's Lilith ?
      
      
      Then believe history.  Who cares ?
      
      
      The Scriptures quoted in the New Testament are Old Testament Scriptures, you are correct.
      
      
      
      No, it does not discredit the NT because the NT is a substance of the OT which is the shadow.  Everything in the OT is a picture, representation, principle, foreshadowing, illustration of Christ.  The goat on whose head is confessed the sins of the people and then released into the wildreness is a shadow of Christ carrying His people's sins into the wildreness. 
      The cities of refuge where anyone being hunted down by the next kin of somebody he slew and where the hunted is not to be touched once he gets behind one single piece of stone in that wall is a picture of Jesus Christ being the sinner's refuge from God's wrath.
      Noah's Ark is a picture of Jesus Christ, the elect child of God's shelter in the time of a storm.
      The fact that Enoch was admitted into heaven without going through death is a picture of the saints' being taken at the last day without physically dying, and a picture of the blood of God's Lamb being shed in eternity past before the cross.
      Genealogies ?
      Do a little math and you will see that most of the people from Adam's time were still alive during the flood, yet God did not spare them from the flood.
      What's that saying ?
      That man is truly Totally Depraved and will turn his back from God to sin, and God retains the Sovereign right, as creator of this Universe, to destroy whom He wants to destroy who is an affront to His Holy Nature, and the Sovereign right to exercise grace and mercy on whom He wants to.
      
      
      
      Given your statements, I don't believe you one bit.  Been around the religious scene for a long time now to know how ton spot fakes, sorry to say.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         fishmoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         replyreport
2. 61

   kmackey32posted 14 years ago

   seriously you believe what u believe and who cares what others believe. They are not you... And why does it bother you what other people believe in? This is why I don't like these religious threads because it seems like its always arguing over what everyone believes in. So silly if you ask me....

   replyreport
   1. 59

      Pamda Manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Qft.
      
      Lol. Topic creator wants to gain attention because recently there have been lots of fail topics on religion. I'm really tired of people like these. The point is, WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR VIEW ON RELIGION IS!
      
      Panda Man

      replyreport
      1. 61

         kmackey32posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         U go PANDA your my GOD.....

         replyreport
3. 56

   yoshi97posted 14 years ago

   As a creature capable of thought and free will, I would go with believing whatever feels right. After all, do you need a book to tell you right from wrong? Do you need to know a written history to decide what you might someday become?
   
   Let me deliver it to you straight ... It's not about what you read, it's about how you chose to live and treat others. Rather than waste a lifetime considering what is or isn't true in a book... work on making yourself the best human being you are capable of.
   
   If a grand creator exists (as many believe) then he will judge your actions over what you have read and believed ... and what if there truly is no God ... well, then, you gave something good back to humanity.

   replyreport
4. 54

   LittleMissKirstiposted 14 years ago

   i am a christen to and that makes my head spin right round but I just have to belive that GOD make us and we need to live for him or we are just wasting out lifes. We need to fill our selfs with him and parse him for evething thing that he dose.And God Jesus and the holy spirt all in one will full you up with Joy not happnies but joy.

   replyreport
5. 80

   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   No person obeys all the rules in the bible, torah or quoran. it is not possible even if you withdraw completely.
   For those who consider that they believe the whole bible or quoran is gods words, they should at least read their own book.

   replyreport
6. 59

   Pamda Manposted 14 years ago

   Apparently, many posters on HubPages decide to feed the trolls.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Do trolls eat bamboo shoots?

      replyreport
   2. 0

      Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry, Pamda...  The thing with this here, is that trolls usually don't write fairly cogent (B) essays asking a coupla good questions.  I bet my college paper grading experience on it.  lol

      replyreport
7. 59

   Pamda Manposted 14 years ago

   Yeah they eat almost eveything. Even cupcakes.

   replyreport
8. 59

   Pamda Manposted 14 years ago

   Can you call me Panda, not Pamda? That would be appreciated. And it won't remind me of my epic typo fail.

   replyreport
   1. 65

      Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The Pamda Man
      
      Who can take a cupcake, sprinkle it with bamboo
      Cover it with confusion and a shoot of bamboo or two
      The Pamda Man, oh the Pamda Man can
      The Pamda Man can 'cause he mixes it with bamboo
      and makes the cupcakes taste good
      
      Sorry I couldn't resist it.

      replyreport
9. 62

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   I guess the major issue with christianity is Make Money

   replyreport
   1. 74

      glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Misha I know its a good pun but since the Christians are going to be outgunned and outnumbered as usual please allow me to add this:
      
      Wished we could go back to communalism when we all hunted and farmed and fished shared the produce.  Tired of market manipulation by the new world order using organisations such as...(speak no evil).
      
      Or even a system of capitalism where government is supposed to regulate the economy in the interest of free enterprise.  Check out this hub which was not written by a fanatic:
      
      
      http://hubpages.com/hub/Did-Goldman-Sac … Depression
      
      Make Money is on the money for me so long as he does not bash Protestants.  Or gets into personal shouting matches. 
      
      I've got your back Make Money.  Two most unlikely comrade in arms in church history.   
      
      You'll make a catholic of me yet.

      replyreport
      1. 65

         Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Very cool glendoncaba.  Okay I've got your back too.  I'll keep that no bashing promise from here on in as long as it is reciprocal.  Man you just made my day.  I think you are already.
         
         Pam Grundy's Hub is well worth reading, in fact I think everyone should read it.
         
         You know casey_wlkr, I would have to agree with David Bowman.  It's good to question your faith.  We all do at one point or another.  And when we do most of us realize that the alternative is dismal.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            Reality is pretty scary. Better to believe you will live forever......

            replyreport
            1. 65

               Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Did that nice conversation that we had this morning convert you fully Mark?
               God bless ya

               replyreport
               1. 59

                  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  No Make Money. I was laughing at you. Sorry, do I need my sarcasm smilie?
                  
                  Considering you have never read the book you are always quoting from, I will add a little about "papists" from the translator's notes when I get around to it.

                  replyreport
10. 62

    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Yeah Glendon, once you believe in one invisible super being, it is much easier to start believing in another one

    replyreport
    1. 74

       glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       If I show you the prophecy in NT you would not believe so let me give you some people whom I do not share anything with.  I dont believe half of what they say but the other half is pretty amazing:
       
       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPy8SnzRsqc
       
       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDUMEEl_ajM
       
       http://www.prisonplanet.com/buchanan-cl … nment.html
       
       http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/jf … speech.htm
       
       
       Pretty scary, huh?  And I'm far more skeptical than atheists when I process information like this.  Because if there is such a thing as a conspiracy they also control the anti-conspiracy propaganda.  Either way you are fed with what they want you to believe.  Yea, George Orwell 1984.
       
       But the web is big enough for all voices, in a sense the internet is the great revealer of secrets.  The common man who wants to, can get information. 
       
       Here is something to think about.  People say Freemasonry is dedicated to freedom.  I guess that they will join good men everywhere in fighting oppressive church, state, and monarchy.  Masonry does have an altruistic side, after all.  So the freemasons should love the internet.   
       
       Yet at a higher level the leaders of secret societies subscribe to New World Order which is ultimately oppresive.  So the endgame of masonry seems to be counter to the freedom espoused.  Do masons here on hub pages know the plot? 
       
       I am neither a mason nor an avowed conspiracist.  There is much to learn from both.
       
       Misha NWO not invisible at all.  Just watch CNN.  They manipulate nearly everything you see, especially in spiritual and business media agenda.

       replyreport
11. 74

    glendoncabaposted 14 years ago

    This NEW WORLD ORDER thingy needs a new thread.  I'm off topic a bit as usual.

    replyreport
12. 58

    jenny88posted 14 years ago

    I was asking similar questions to a guy recently and he said to look at some of the things ken ham says on answersingenes 
    that is a comm site i think but trying not to post a link in forum
    
    jenz

    replyreport