Genesis 2:7"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Many naysayers want to laugh at this scripture because it seems so "imaginary". But even the best scientists can't make "life" can they? No, they can't even make dirt without bringing some of Gods dirt with them. Even worse, our smartest scientists can't explain "life" without explaining the word with "living" or the opposite of "death". Why then do ancient ancestors understand that we need a soul to live and that soul comes from the "breath of life" given by God? Because Genesis is an accurate account of the beginning of man, dirt and life on this mud-ball called earth. Don't we continue to live because of the nutrients within the dirt that helps plants grow that we eat, or feed the animals that we eat? "You are what you eat" some say turkey, now I say "dust of the ground". I hope you can trace it back that far.
In terms of existance, it makes more sense that nothing exist at all. No planets, no stars, no life, no matter at all. But that isn't reality. I won't say a creator "must" have been involved. The Creator was involved. Even your pond sludge had "life" guys. No matter how "primative".
I love that section!!! One of my favorites!
Agree, you can not build a full human skeliton out of two badly eroded Animal Bones, suspecting they were from an ape, (not sure though) Then take that and build a series of drawings that show an ape progressing into Human form, and call it absolute truth?
To may questions; the so called missing link, the development of Human Concience, Where and how specificaly did it start? what absolute proof is there to prove natural evolution from animal to man? And what about all the Other Animals, why did they also not evolve to some human form? If nature evolves that means all cells evolve, not just a pre-determined few?
Where and how did the very first cell come to be? If evolution is truth, then science would and should know of the exhistance of the first cell, after all these years of study? How did it get here?
All I get from Darwin is he came to believe that the Old testiment was False, because he did not agree with it! So...??
If viewed in the Time Darwin lived, it might be possible to say, this is fiction, given the way Church and Clergy taught it and reacted to it. Men interpreting God???? We are not Omniscent, how would we even begin to know the Universe in totality? Especialy as Earthbound and lacking in equipment as we were back then!
Something happend to get this all started, what was it? The Big bang was created by some one or something? Who, or what?
For me, myself, by my faith, I choose to believe God made it.
No use trying to agree with Sooner. He/she will just find a way to be right in his/her own right.
You can't agree or disagree with this person.
You are correct Tim, I can only account for me, and what all others believe is really ok, it is their right and privelage to do so. I am also backing off these religious Threads. Just going in circles for no purpose. Work on the Hubs instead, probly will be more benificial that way.
And it's Christians (assuming you are) like you that I could have an good debate with, raising points and counter-points and have some fun.
But there are people like the one that started this thread that doesn't want to hear anything against his/her belief and then talks down to you if you don't agree. Meanwhile, always praising God and his preachings. It's an oxymoron.
I have to agree, if you really believe then you do not make decisions for God. He teaches you, not the other way around, and yes, after 58 years of life, work in 5 contenants, and trying every thing from Wicca to God, I have to say yes, I am Christian.
But I do not believe in Religon, I believe in God. religion is man made and thus faults are found. To me, personaly, God is not like that.
Correct. I don't want to put one down for beleiving in evolution, as I did for over 30 years. But I want to shed some light, as suggest that it doesn't exist.
Blessed! *side note* Did you see the news about Ida being recalled as the missing link? Seems real scientist figured that she was just a lemur. No surprise here!
No, I did not see that. I want to write an article on how scientist hate so much to retract false information that was preached as "fact" for so long. There are 2 points. 1- much time and research(federally funded) that went into finding these "facts". 2- it helps disprove just one more time.
Statistically life is an impossiblity according to the physicists. That the spark of life happened at all is intriguing. That all of the variety of life that exists on this planet from that spark and how it is able to work together is amazing. I wish that I could pursue this with you more, but I have to go to sleep!
Do you just start posts to hear yourself talk? Or post? haha
I am fully aware that you do not believe in God Tim.
Is there something that you would really like to say?
You just start these Hubs to create fights. But even in other posts, you argue with other Christians about your interpretation of the bible.
You think your interpretation is right, even over fellow Christians.
Nothing will change your mind so why post? No one can being up points to you without quoting the bible which can't be used as proof, especially when you and other Christians can't agree.
It's funny, honestly.
In one instance I said that I could not agree with a fellow Christian on a subject matter.
least funny is your inablility to engage in educational conversation.
quote the bible? yes, every time. I believe it is more "pointless" to identify that I use bible quotes. Thanks captain obvious.
I hope you are not paying too much for your education in Phoenix.
And it's unreal how you represent Christians by continually talking down to people.
You are the one that has the inability to engage in anything educational because you don't agree with anyone, even your own fellow religion followers.
Keep talking down to me. It doesn't bother me. Just shows you're not that secure in the teachings of your own religion
And you made fun of me for being on HubPages for a week last week and not knowing anything.
I already almost have half of the fans you do in 1/8 the time.
Maybe your preachings and condescending attitude to others isn't what other Hubbers like. Hmmmm...
"And it's unreal how you represent Christians by continually talking down to people."
anyway, its been fun Tim. Now have mom make you some spaghetti and get to bed early. You have a soccer game in the morning.
P.S. really, I'm done talking with you.
I'm not aware that sooner claims to be representing Christians.
"I hope you are not paying too much for your education in Phoenix."
What a low thing to say!
You are another one of those holy rollers with an obvious hole in your sock teaching others how to do the darning.
In other thread he said he was dirt.
I'm sure that means something ....
I'm used to it. I've been on HubPages for 2 weeks and this person continually talks down to me and others who don't agree with his bible quotes.
It is ironic since he/she loves quoting the bible and really shouldn't be acting that way. But what do I know?
Well for starters Tim you seem to have common sense.
Notice that the attacks from religionists are usually shaky psychologically? Like being ageist or sexist? Your young, what would you know is pretty dumb position to come from don't you think? These people are psychological infants!
(1) Who created existence
(2) Why of the Universe
are ancient, mind-subverting gimmicks of positing invalid, intellectually untenable questions that have no basis in reality.
That false-question maneuver has been used by theologians and other MYSTICS for centuries. The gimmicks works by taking an invalid or meaningless idea and then cloaking the idea with specious but profound-sounding phraseology. That phraseology is then used as an "Intellectual" PROP to advance false, irrational concepts or doctrines.
Consider, for example, the "Who created existence" and the "Why of the Universe" question so often used by poets and theologians to advance the God or higher-power concept.
On closer examination, one realize that invalid questions such as "who made the universe" are meaningless and unprofound. For the type of infinite-regression question(of who created the creator and so on back) answers nothing and is anit-intellectual. Such a question cannot or need NOT be answered once one realizes that EXISTENCE EXITS.
On realizing that by nature existence simply exists, one then realizes that the "who create existence" and/or "why of the universe" questions cannot or need NEVER be answered because no causal explanations are needed for existence or the universe.
Existence is AXIOMATIC. It just exists; it has always has and always will.
Nothing created it and no causal explanation is needed or valid. For what is the alternative? No alternative is possible or neede, unless one accepts the contradiction that existence does not exist.
Can we stop playing this game now?
Then if it is Axiomatic, (Learn as you Go!) who or what gave it the ability to do that?
Asking as in an interest in science? I am no Theologan, just a beliver by my own faith, and not asking anyone to be same. Thats is your own to consider. This is not a trick, How, in sincerity, how? Just want to know...
I will also say I understand your points about Universe questions...it is here, we are where we are, but I am just curious to know the purose of us being here? For myself that is.
I read darwin, I see his confusion and his argument, but to me the proof never satisfies, so I chose the latter.
I guess I question because its hard for me to easily accept a statement like, where you go...there yoo are, it just happens? Not so sure about that anymore.
"(1) Who created existence
(2) Why of the Universe
are ancient, mind-subverting gimmicks of positing invalid, intellectually untenable questions that have no basis in reality."
I'm not sure that these questions are "invalid". They are a sidenote of what Darwin tried to answere. Big Bang tried to answere.
I stated that the Idea of nonexistance as a whole makes more sense. And really it does.
Actually, it doesn't.
It just sounds like your pedaling existentialsim and it's influence....which was determined many years ago to be false on it's basis.
Existentialism claims that reality does not exist. Thus, the meaning of existentialism is impossible to objectively define or understand. For existentialism is nothing.
And nothing can be attached to nothing.
If I am understanding what you said?
Determined to be false by "who". what you think is relevent and what I think is relevent are 2 different things. Many say that the bible is not relevent, but it is to many.
I think you feel that I am talking about existance being imaginary or a state of mind? that is not what I am implying.
Without the Creator, non-existance of any kind makes more sense.
I'm sure it did not.
did I show you the wing-ed and feathered lizard fossile that made the cover of National Geographic? turns out Chinees archeologists(lead by European Archeologists which they failed to mention) combined two fossils to make a lizzard with wings.
8 magazines later and an article
; this big ;
retracted the find 4 pages from the back.
yep, heard about that too.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,"
It's truly astounding that people still believe evolution, it's bogus.
Evolution isn't bogus.....the science isn't FINISHED?
Duh, I would thought you figured that out.....it's fairly simple to understand.
careful to quote scripture. Its a sin in the Atheist Religion.
ahhhhh taboo, bad luck, dance dance dance.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,"
You are the one believing the lie?
Because you base your argument on something that isn't reality.
Before you accuse someone of something get your facts straight.
I have NO RELIGIOUS BELIEF whatsoever.
Learn to get to know someone a little better before you throw misguided judgements.
If you believe in evolution you do. whether you admit it or not.
No religious beliefs in religious forum? Sorry I assume by your actions. Whatever you call yourself. You’re a contradiction first because you’re here trying to argue with me.
Cagsil - "the science isn't FINISHED?"
I know, it helps my cause daily. It hurts evolution. You guys should just ask science to stop. You would have a stronger peg to stand on.
Before you paste a long pile of mystic stuff, you should probably ask yourself "Why am I here?" in this forum and in life.
Science grows daily while religion is stuck on page 12 of an ancient book written by a handful of sexist hateful men who added a fairy to be scary!
I know it rhymes!
Glad to see you here. Will YOU walk me through your core beliefs? I figure a strong figure like yourself could make a strong, up to date stance.
Don't hold your breath! I've never seen it happen.
And all I see from you is a desperate defense of your crazy religions beliefs by trying to belittle those who are more realistic than you are! !
I am not aware of being a strong figure, I do have a position, but feel no need to offer it here again. Several others have laid it out in hubpages well enough, and the finer points of my belief are always in transit.
I can direct others towards my readings, but I have seen that is no help here either. I send a religionists to study a subject that is completely new to them, something that will take weeks to study and understand, and they are back in 10 seconds telling me they read it and disagree.
Sadly, I know more about the subject than most that cling to it. However, I have not seen anyone lead to the actual belief or core issues.
I do feel that this is your first real answere to me though. and I do apreciate that. for what its worth.
dig a little deeper. Evolution rellies heavily on "faith".
Not one evolutionist will walk me through their core beliefs. Why, I don't know. But many of the core beliefs are retracted or under speculation within the science community.
of corse we question it. but why don't you?
no, to get real answeres I have to find a way to conquer the "spin".
One day I was adamant about discussing the belief in Macroevolution. Even though Evolution Guy did not try to spin- he posted some information about the subject that was spinning. The scientists wanted to dismiss macroevolution because it was propably false. Then they gave a "new" theory that was the same as macroevolution and called it something else.
Not really. Science as you know has to be in the final analysis scientific.
When it is not, it will not stand and needs to be dismantled.
It is not those trying to prove evolution that are useful to science, it is the application of true scientific method that leads us in fits and starts to some believable position or belief.
The core is an interesting way to observe religion, as it is simply one book or the other, both almost identical except in influence and order, with the same psychotic entity.
The simple way to see the absurdity of this is to be conscious of the dead giveaway in the speech of the writers. it is incredibly naive ans psychotic in the quoran, OT and NT.
but science is so casually "dismantled", more often it is not. Even when in error. So why then do we hear everything as "fact". You must see this all of the time?
"The simple way to see the absurdity of this is to be conscious of the dead giveaway in the speech of the writers. it is incredibly naive ans psychotic in the quoran, OT and NT."
and this is just a statement again. no depth, no examples.
Old Test. New Test. is explained by Jesus. OT predicts Jesus, not to mention the qualifications in prophecy. Was God judgemental in OT. You bet. He is the judge at the end too.
The bible being a book of principals will have some "judgements"
This I know, is what you like the least. many posts about the judgment and character of my God that you have made. too many to count.
Threats and fear as motivation are all through the bible, and yet this is supposedly from that which is omniscient/potent/present?
The need to be worshiped is the first man made dead giveaway!
threats and fears are what stick out to you. Not me. Did you not read how Jesus forgives the adultress, but condemns the accusers?
why, and this is just a theory of mine- how did they catch her in the act? what was Jesus writing in the sand? I think that he was writing their sins in the sand. I think also that some have slept with this woman.
I find that things like rape torture abuse of females, slavery do tend to set a certain tone, yes, especially if condoned by a deity.
Nothing terribly awesome about JC apparently seeing the bloomin obvious, that it is bulldust to blame the oppressed.
As for the end, pure conjecture which supports hundreds of dates and times that no person agrees on. Good luck with that.
I've read plenty in the Bible about us needing to worship God, but nothing about God needing to be worshiped.
So you haven't read the whole book either?
I could list so much here from the bible that demands total obedience, demands to worship, and all the other things I have mentioned stating clearly that they are sanctioned by the biblical god.
It just develops convoluted arguments about context.
The biblical out clause.
"I find that things like rape torture abuse of females, slavery do tend to set a certain tone, yes, especially if condoned by a deity."
??? never seen those.
If helps......I've got a timeline reference I could check for anything of history?
Something to be confirmed?
Just trying to help form an understanding.
I too, simply want to understand other people's reason behind their belief of religious text.
If you would rather me not be in the conversation, then I'll bow out.
Why does it have to be either or? I think that there are some truths in basic evolution. The creator created it, it evolved in many ways, the creator added finishing touches, here we are. The short legged deer were caught by the tiger, long legged deer made babies. Genetics are subject to some changes. A male pure breed dog has sex with a mutt. The pure breed is ruined for breeding purposes because his genetics are changed. This must be true in all species. It can not be simply either or. Both sides of this issue has truth.
Can we stick to things we can evaluate?
There is no basis in reality for such a creator.
You can not prove to me that there is any basis for reality.
Think about what you just said....then look up the word reality?
We have gone this road before. If that is the God you follow, so be it.
I don't mean to be rude, but people who state that they have read the bible cover to cover even once- often have not.
If you have I wonder, did you do some context research so that you may understand the historical value, the cultural differences, and supportive literature?
I spent the last 20+ researching religious beliefs and the foundations, which they exist.
Yes, I have done the context research and found the bible to be out of context.
The cultural differences then...its was makes the bible and all other religious scripture out of context.
But, thank you for asking.
What would you like explained?
Please be specific?
Nothing regards to how the earth was created or how the universe came to be?
I posted an explanation for that earlier.
well 20 years of extensive biblical research and you discovered that the bible is out of context. You are the teacher now. that is a crazy statement to have no backing. I dont manke statements like that.
Explain to me how the bible is out of context as per "time" which you have stated 3 times now that you are experienced in.
Are you serious?
I have 20+ years of research and you want me to sum it up in a couple words.
How is that fair?
You base your belief on a book that more than 1000+ pages to it and you want me explain everything I've learned in a forum chat.
That's why I asked you to be specific about what you wanted to know.
So, I could be more precise for you.
I thought I was making it easy for you...Scripture is your basis and you belief in Jesus Christ?...Right?
Sorry dear, its just that I have 30 years in study- and I really just do not believe you.
Even if I told you...you probably wouldn't believe it anyway.
It is a process you have to come to understand on your own.
Your belief isn't going to be changed. But, to rationalize any form of scripture from religion of any sort...you must first realize the truth about it.
Religious/spiritual teachings were debunked as mysticism.
Mysticism is an illusion.
Depending upon your perspective; If you choose; there is no reality that can be proven with absolute certainty to you.
With absolute certainty you can find others to agree that your reality is so.
There will always be someone with a different perspective that you can not PROVE your reality to them.
Everyone will never agree upon any one reality.
Those who cannot distinguish real from fake is those who believe illusions are real.
That doesn't rate any form of rational thought. Therefore, if you can not see the same reality as the rest of humankind...I highly suggest you see a shrink.
I am not slamming you....but you have to be serious. Come on.
What do you consider Christ?
Was he a prophet?
Was he a minister?
Was he God?
I just thought you wanted to take this discussion somewhere. Now I am bored. good night.
The question is are you open?
I don't say that meanful....because you believe in GOD, which I consider not real, but because anything that cannot be confirmed by any of your senses, which are built-in to your anatomy....can not be considered rational.
Those same words have been spoken through out history by scientist in all fields. But progress was made in spite of them. Reality is what the majority says it is?
The most real thing I can think of is that I am supposed to bet up out of bed in about five hours and I really should go to bed. good night and will do this more tomorrow
I cannot believe you said progress was made in spite of scientists! Do you want to go and live back in a cave somewhere?
And what is all this stuff on here that says God and evolution have to be mutually exclusive?
Darwin was not the only evolutionist, there was another scientist called Lemark, you can look up for yourselves how their theories differed. I really wish you would because I think most people just get a small small understanding and then run away with either believing or not believing something they do not begin to understand.
The Lemark theory is a really good explanation of why for example; spiders hatch knowing how to spin their webs, giraffes have long necks etc etc.
Now if God created the universe in seven days, and God is all powerful....who is to say that his seven days are the same as ours? His days could have covered millions of years and thus He could have guided all the changes needed to perfect (?) His creation.
Tim I think you are a great young man and Sooner I think you should refrain from low comments.....are you in the Salvation Army?
I was saying that science made progress in spite of the attitude from the the majority. I also said that why does it have to be either or concerning a form of evolution and creation. God created it, it evolved and God put the final touches on it. He created man. And yes I think that on the first day he did his thing and a million of our years later he worked on the second day and much later he worked on the third day etc. And as far as going for any one's theory goes I do not have to understand any one's theory of evolution in order to believe it to some degree. If I understand correctly what you are saying, we do not disagree. If I worded my thoughts wrong thank you for bringing that to my attention.
It is 3;30 in the morning. couldn't sleep and checked in for a minute. goin back to bed and try to sleep.
good night all
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