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If you believe a lie for a given period of time and then find out the truth about it and realize you believed a lie all along and all the while called it "your truth"...
then how do you know that what you now call "your truth" is in fact not another lie with a different suit on?
Does "your truth" contain any lies?
After all...you use to believe something that you called "your truth" and found out that part of it was a lie.
So, does "your truth" and the truth line up?
Also, does truth originate with you?
If not, why do you call it "your truth" ???
Do you own it? Did you create it?
Or did you find it?
If you find what you think to be the truth and then find out it is a lie...how can you then trust yourself afterwards that you now have found the truth...because you have already proven yourself to be a liar...probably many times over.
Depends on what the subject is.
There are some Truths that simply are eternal and universal and unshakeably solid.
Those are the ones worth believing.
My father once said "Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see." speaking naturally.
Speaking Spiritually, he held to those unshakeable Truths confirmed by the Holy Spirit, such as "Let God be true, but every man a liar."
All this issues only happen to people who believe in a God.
I don't question my truths, as they're changing all the time.
People that grow mentally and spiritually have different truths as long as they keep growing.
And by spiritually , I don't mean believers in God.
One can be 'spritual' in many ways that don't imply believing in a God.
If your truth is always changing, it was not and is not real truth at all.
Truth does not change, move or adjust.
At 20 you can think something is the truth. and then at 40 you changed it. Because your experience tells you ,you were wrong.
And so on.If you think a truth is unamovable,you haven't grown up.
The Truth doesn't exist. All the Truths are relative. And they work for each individual accordingly.
When you are 20, 40, 60 or 80...real truth was always there, it did not change, you changed your mind because you realized you believed a lie at an earlier age.
You cannot change the truth, you are the one who changes your mind, the truth does not move, it is stationary and remains as such until you find it...we are the ones who move towards it or away from it.
Truth is not relative...Truth changes not...people change.
There is truth, and there is Truth - the Absolute. The Absolute is unchangeable and is only found when all the untruths of the mind are discerned, deciphered and deconstructed, which is why the truth (lower t) is ever changing until the Absolute is reached. Which is found within oneself - call that the God within if you like.
What's the real truth ?
If you don't have the answer, and you don't, real truth doesn't exist
What is the real truth?
Just that...it is real, always real, always truth, no lie in it at all, truth is not subjective, truth does not originate with people, truth stands alone and can be sought out by someone with a desire to find truth.
So again, the real truth is real and not mine or yours as no human owns the truth, nor did it originate with them.
And you can't see it, you can't live it, you can't learn from it, you can't give it, nor receive it. NOTHING
Is only IDEALISM
You don't have the answer.
Get real !
So would it be the idealism within yourself that is the truth at any given time?
If that is your definition of truth, okay then.
It seems pretty small and subjective.
As I have said...the truth does not originate with me...it stands alone.
If you're happy with your fairy tales, be my guest.
But don't say my truths are small.
at least they are.
your truth is invisible and therefore useless.
You don't even know what it is.
I have defined it already.
Truth is not invisible at all...unless you are in the dark about it....but that's just it, the truth is in the light and we are over here in the dark...but the truth is still visible if we get out of the dark.
Because I do not posses all truth and only the Truth can originate it.
I say that out of humility.
Believe it or not, it's inside you so you do possess it. Just not discovered in it's purest form. It's not something given, it's something discovered, unveiled if you like.
I believe that I have something in my hand.
But because you can't see it or touch it or smell it, you say that it is not logical for me to believe that anything is in my hand.
If you have something actually in your hand, then you try to believe that it is not there? That is going against your own nature, because you know for a fact there is something in your hand, yet you are trying to force yourself to believe something that isn't true. You can't do it.
If you have NOTHING in hand and you want to make yourself believe their is something in your hand....then you again go against your own nature. You can't do it.
It's human nature to strive for truth. We want truth in knowledge, everything that happens - we want answers, which become factual truths, on a universal level.
We usually get along, me and you. Not trying to pick a fight (unfortunately, I feel the need to clarify this).
Universal level of factual truths? What exactly would that be?
Yeah, I'd like the answer to that one also! It's so vague to talk universal truths. It's the same as saying God performed a miracle today and I've honey in my porridge. Please don't do The Secret or Bible versus or I'm out of here.
Fire is hot, water is wet. Clouds are white. Our blood is blue.
You know, things that fit into reality and make sense to everyone who realizes them.
Let's try something- Is it truth that death is inevitable?
Just a test. Give me what truth you know.
I don't see death as an inevitability, I see it as a possibility.
Not sure about universal, I get the message though.
Fire is hot and water wet, thats one thing.
Life and death, thats another.
Why is death to be figured as inevitable?
The one thing- aging? Yes, science can evolve to find a way to slow the process and even prolong it. And, yes even evolve to be immortal, as some point. But, that is another subject all together.
Since that possibility can become truth and a reality, death is not inevitable, but only possible. I understand anything is possible, but not ignorant enough to believe in a mystical god.
And, yes- other things cause death as well. But, that's another subject all together, too.
We will all die, that is the only thing certain or inevitable.The biggest folly man lives under is that he lives like he is not going to die.
"Life and death both must come,
It is said at the end we become One. "
I am one. I am me.
Please. I am of the schooling that anything is possible, therefore death is only a possibility, not an inevitability.
You believe what you want. I don't need to explain any further than I have.
Death is a door to another dimension and is inevitable and not just a possibility.Nothing wrong is dying.
So if we are dead and a door opens, wouldn't it be hard to find ones way through the door?
Nope because there is no such thing as death as most humans assume.
"The moment I die I must do my best,
To become one with the light eternal rest."
Your energy or soul doesn't die.
Your last remark is in quote marks, whom are you referencing?
I expect the answer may be the obvious one but please, do tell.
I was refering to your style of interpretation.
It may seem to be mysticism to some. But it's not really. Anything that is not experienced could be seen as mysticism, sure. Means there are allot of mysteries
I've done a few years on truth and rhyme and reason. Plus 10 years now of meditation and transformation practices, which includes deconstruction, like unraveling of conditioning.
In some spiritual teachings, the Truth would be equated to being in your center, ie void of external influence - the senses being part of those external influences. The influence of peers, parents, teachers, church etc., would be external influences. Could also call it verbal clutter that clouds your own mind of it's sense of self. Doesn't mean you don't learn from others, but you discern what works for you and what doesn't. But the standpoint is always your own self. Never an external thing, force, or whatever.
I am not sure why it was necessary to include a quote?
We can never be void of external influence.
Well yeah, if we are subject to physical laws...but those are just an illusion.
It's still not easy to be in the world and not be a part of it. To become void of external influence takes allot of work. Unless I'm doing it wrong! So far my reaction to the world is much less than it was 5 years ago. My level of interaction in the world has changed dramatically and is more assertive than passive which is what I prefer and is in line with my truth as I see it.
It's very difficult to even conceive of an illusion. But you can certainly go through phases in life where external influences are ziltch. And they are phases not permanent states.
Not sure that a human being can posses all truth.
All as in ALL.
If it is not all, then truth cannot originate with me.
Be hard pressed to find someone who said they have ALL TRUTH inside them....they might have found some, but they do not have it all.
You define truth as something that always needs an explanation. It's different to knowing all the answers, as in abc knowledge. I don't know all there is to know about cattle, is that to say I don't know truth. Not the same context of truth. If you want to talk right and wrong in the context of the law or to pass an exam, that's not the same. My truth is that I don't have all the answers to the questions a child would ask. I also don't have all the answers to the questions of a chemistry student. That's my truth. And it's inside me.
Agreed. Truth doesn't change. Aspects of Life changes, which adds new truths.
"adds new truths" ?
I think they were always there, as yet unrevealed until the one searching for truth found them sitting right where they had always been.
the psychology stance on this is that when a conflict in a belief (or 'your truth') it has a fundamental affect on the psyche. The mind, sort of, goes into overdrive. People suffer mixed feelings.. depression, anger,disbelief etc. The person is literally breaking down. Once broken to the base, then the repair can start. People go through a period of reasoning until they have found a 'new truth' that they can reason with.
Does that make sense?
Makes sense to me, not the way I would put it but makes sense.
p.s. hot photo
That's okay, it made sense to me too, and it's not the way I would have put it either.
Agreed on the hot photo.
Ditto babes... your photo is a shade too high though! lol
Well - judging from the amount of religionists who attack science and scientists for bringing new knowledge to light which proves the lies in the bible are lies - it appears that most people who are ignorant enough to think they have the Truth - merely defend it aggressively in tha face of actual facts.
Me - I am prepared to be flexible in what I consider to be the truth as I am aware that my perception of this changes over time. I do not have an absolute truth. And certainly am not arrogant and ignorant enough to claim to have the Truth.
Because that just causes conflict and wars.
Like wot jeebus wants.
It's not about lying at all - it's about choosing to grow and change in light of new information and accepting the consequences of that choice. Challenging beliefs can be painful and difficult, yet it is a healthy and mature way to approach life because beliefs are not set in stone - I believe in keeping an open mind to new information that needs to be assessed, sorted, processed, disguarded, kept. It's an ongoing process. Anyone who challenges their beliefs knows this.
There's never a point where you think you know it all or that you can claimn truth for everyone! It's a very personal journey.
yes... this is the real truth! Love ya babes!
Unless the information the people are giving you happens to be utterly, uniequivocally wrong.
It appears that the thread has gotten off the topic?
We learn line upon line, here a little and there a little. Everything takes us either one step higher, or one step lower.
truth is truth and stands alone
That made my brain hurt.
Now to try to answer your question. If you had a belief, and that belief was changed... there must be a reason why...and a very good reason. Could the new belief be false? I guess so. But most people need a lot to believe so strongly, whether it be the first "truth" or the second.
That would be this god I guess.
"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)
What a psychotic little entity this would be!
I wouldn't listen either if I considered Him a "little entity".
But He is God; so yes I listen.
It would behoove anyone to.
I hope you are the one with the complete truth out of the 300 odd interpretations...
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Otherwise according to your god... straight to hell for you!
If The Artist Formerly Known as God offers it in this forum, it is truth. It may not appear to be truth if you limit yourself to logical interpretation, but if you just shut that annoying little brain off for awhile, you will realize that all he says is true. It will never turn out to be a lie, except when it does, which doesn't count cause he's The Artist Formerly Known as God.
truth = fact
If you suspect that what you believe may be a lie, you must investigate and learn the facts. Only fools assume
"If you find what you think to be the truth and then find out it is a lie...how can you then trust yourself afterwards that you now have found the truth...because you have already proven yourself to be a liar...probably many times over. "
No fact, no truth. Problem solved!
Well I see what you mean here.
I think that people who present facts can also hide the whole truth.
But what they present is 100% factual, albeit not 100% truthful.
Agreed, because facts in some cases, can be subjective or open to interpretations, leading to false connection to a truth.
Here is something to think about.
You are living in Germany in 1939 and hiding Jews in your house and the Police knock on your door and ask "are you hiding Jews?"
.....you can state the facts or tell the truth.
What do you do? What are the facts here and what is the truth?
With an open mind- I would tell there was no one there. And I wouldn't be lying. I don't recognize religion. So, therefore no there are no jews in my house at the time.
What would I do? I'd follow my truth at the time, which would be to tell the German NO because of both self preservation and the preservation of the people I was protecting. That would be my truth. In the eyes of the German's I'd be lying if they knew the truth of the situation. But within my own conscience I have followed what I see as my truth.
Seems like you are doing this out of love, which is truth.
Love has pure truth.
Truth goes beyond facts, if you get what I mean.
I do it out of integrity which is my truth as I see it regardless of the consequences. But I'd not be able to do this unless I had it within me. If someone else told me to go and defend another for their own gains or their truth, I'd not do it unless I had just cause or was honoring my own truth in the process.
i would say "seig heil!" and then get shot.
Interesting that you would introduce Nazis into the conversation.
How about its late 19th century, nobody likes you or your people and your local leader tells you there is some vacant land but you know it is full of Arabs whom call it home, do you join the mob, pillage and rape, then take it as your own or do you speak the truth?
"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.” ~Homer Simpson
I think "truth" as you define it does not exist. Every person has a unique point of view based on age, culture, personal experience... endless list.
A belief is a fundamental part of any person's self identity. "Truth" can't possibly be universal, it is too personal.
How can Truth be personal as it is not subject to any person?
Truth can only ever be applied personally until such time as the person takes a universal standpoint. Truth is only ever found within yourself. Even if someone was to say "this is the truth" (be that universal or whatever) it means naught to the person you are speaking to unless they themselves feel it is their truth. Wasted words really to force one to believe in another's truth.
When you say "your truth", it is personal. "your truth" is what I'm saying can't be universal.
"Truth that is not subject to any person" does not exist.
Truth is universal, providing each person is aware of it.
Example: Truth- there is not a cure of cancer.
Is that subjective? No. Is it an absolute? Right now it is. Will a cure ever be found? Who knows, but as of right now- it doesn't exist.
Therefore the statement is truth.
And the truth changes, as there are now cures for some cancers.
Yes, but I would rather say that the truth evolved, through discovery.
My belief is that I will love him forever. That is my truth. So I will take a vow to prove my love.
But if he cheats on me, I will chop off his balls and kick his ass to the curb.
The truth never changes but our perceptions of what that truth is constantly changes. If you have never felt like you were smarter or wiser than you were five years earlier then you are probably mentally stagnant. When that happens we really BELIEVE that we are as smart as we think that we are.
And if that is what you are thinking then you need to think about that some more.... Think about that.
This is what makes me like you Jerami! You say wonderful things sometimes
I like you too caus you are always doing that.
One step further.....evolution of the mind's next step forward.
Hi jerami !!!
When you're right, you're right !!
Seems like I do a lot more thinkin when my mouth ain't movin If I wana quit thinking I'll have to talk more and that is when it seems that I get in the most trouble
the author is dead. opinion is fact. My opinion is always right and if you disagree then we are not so different, are we?
the truth is... i love lemon juice, pineapple too...
Here is some truth!
Y'all spend way too much time trying to define the undefinable!
It was full only a few nights ago. Did you sleep well or did the dogs keep you up?
Words are your friend,put the letters together and experience the delight of reading.
Did you mis the "R" in his moooooooooooooooon ?
Is that your spiritual truth, or your interpretation of the facts?
Sorry, can't drag me into this bit of insanity
Finding a new truth only makes you a liar if you have been flogging an old truth.
People should be prepared to learn and change what they believe in light of better information.
I seek the truth!
"when I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse
out of the corner of my eye
I cannot put my finger on it now
the child is grown
the truth is gone
and I have become
Truth is one of the abstracts in life,it can be shaped and formed,loved and hated,used for good or evil.I have heard"the truth will set you free"It sure does but usually it hurts like Hell first.
I say it is your lie, you can tell it any way you want...It is up to the listener to decide if he believes it or not. Does everyone believe everything they are told?
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