How can Christians who won't forgive others expect God to forgive them?

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   dianetrotterposted 10 years ago

   How can Christians who won't forgive others expect God to forgive them?
   
   Many Americans equate patriotism with being a Christian or loving God.  Which is more important - patriotism or obeying God's command to love one another.

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   Ericdierkerposted 10 years ago

   Diane, there was a great great man that told us "Obedience of the Law is the Greatest Freedom". He was speaking of God's Law and man's law. I sat one day on a bench for hours reading that. It is an inscription above a small courthouse about a mile from the NBA Hall of Fame.
   I was hopping a freight train from Boston and hopped off there. And it came to pass that in that true "court yard" Jesus dropped by to say howdy to me. You know He does that from time to time.
   Well I reckon old Jesus who is still younger than me (and older) put my head back on straight and let me know something that I wrote down on paper sack with a pencil I stole: "If I am the best son I can be, I love, If I am the best parent I can be, I love, if I be the spouse I can be, I love, and If I be the best citizen I can be, I love."
   Now I also reckon you done figured out I was talking about a man named Abraham. He was not the man who parted the sea, He was the man that put it back together. "Our nation under God is indivisible and it is every single one of us that remains the glue"
   Diane thank you to let an old man ramble and say little.
   e

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      dianetrotterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Ramble on Eric!  Good for the brain!

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      taburkettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Proverbs 22:6 - Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
      Proverbs 13:22 - A good [man] leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner [is] laid up for the just.
      Patriot

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   ChristopherJRexposted 10 years ago

   It is the duty of every human being to be decent, fair, tolerant, diverse, open-minded, peaceful, loving, social, collaborative, and willing to compromise.  That does not necessarily mean that people have to be weak and bend over backwards for anyone.  Celebrating or honoring something that you think is great is fantastic!  But doing those things just because you believe that you are “obligated” to do so is false.  Just who are you trying to convince?  You shouldn’t say “I love you” to somebody that you don’t actually love, so don’t honor a country that you aren’t proud of!  Just because you are born in America, it does not necessarily mean that you are obligated to align yourself with her your whole life.  “Being a patriot” or “obeying a god” are often cop-outs to thinking for yourself.  You should have the presence of mind to maintain your individuality and not become one of the “sheeple” that blindly follow the masses and take orders without question.  Stand up for what you know is right and fight against injustice.  Have the courage to question everything and put forth the effort to make the world a better place.

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      Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Seriously dude?

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      taburkettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You have stated the very principle applicable to the patriot that is willing to stand up against all odds for his fellow man. Politicians tell us it is unpatriotic to tell the truth about the corruption. However, they are the unpatriotic evil ones.

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   Abby Campbellposted 10 years ago

   Hi Diane. I didn't know that many Americans equated patriotism with Christianity. Our country is so diverse now-a-days with ethnicity, cultures, and religion that I really think of it as being a "Melting Pot." As far as answering your question on which is more important, I would have to say that if God's love resides in us, it will show forth in our patriotism as well. We have much to be thankful for as we are blessed beyond belief. Though we may not always like what our government does, God did bless us with so much freedom. If we really think about it, we even have more peace than most of the world. I believe that God would want us to be patriotic as well as love one another. :-)

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      taburkettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You are correct Abby.  May God bless and keep you and yours with health, happiness, and prosperity forever.

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      Abby Campbellposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you, taburkett, and may He also bless and keep you and yours. Have a wonderful day! :-)

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   sheilamyersposted 10 years ago

   I'm going to answer you simply because you asked it in a simple way. It is always more important to obey God's command to love one another than it is to be patriotic.
   
   Now for a little more. I can agree with Abby in that we should feel blessed to have the freedoms we do here in the US. I can also agree with anyone who says we should respect our leaders and obey the laws they establish. But how far do we take that? Am I unpatriotic if I don't salute the flag or put my hand over my heart during the National Anthem? Am I unpatriotic if I don't support or condone the current wars? Most people would say I'm very unpatriotic.
   
   God's laws always trumps man's law and man's patriotism. Any time I feel a mere man (or woman) is leading me to contradict God, I'll end up being viewed as unpatriotic. So be it. I have but but one Master to whom I shall bow (or show absolute allegiance to) and that is God.

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      taburkettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends."
      This is what a real patriot is willing to do.
      Therefore, there is no difference between the patriot and God's commands concerning love of thy neighbor.

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   taburkettposted 10 years ago

   Both are complementary because it is through God's command to love that patriots live with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience while protecting their nation.
   
   A patriot is one who loves his or her country and supports it through adherence to  righteousness.  This includes loving all other citizens through God's command to love one another.  However, this love is shown to those others who repent of their sins. 
   
   1 Timothy 5:20 But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.
   
   Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
   
   Luke 17 And he said to his disciples, “Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin. 3 Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, 4 and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”
   
   John 13:34-35  A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
   
   Patriots live through righteousness by providing justice.
   
   Psalm 11:7 For the Lord is righteous, he loves justice; the upright will see his face.
   
   Therefore, it is difficult to separate these things and direct more importance to one or the other for it is through each that the individual achieves full respect for righteousness and love.

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      dianetrotterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There are patriotic people who do not believe in God.

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      taburkettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There is no better love than that of a patriot who is willing to give up his life so that others may continue to live under the Flag of Freedom in the best nation ever formed on this planet.  The individuals you speak of live as God has commanded.

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   IDONOposted 10 years ago

   Because nobody, including Christians, is capable of true, complete and unconditional forgiveness. Only God is capable of that. As long as man possesses any memory at all, there will always be some element of mistrust, anger or resentment present, even after one declares that they have forgiven somebody for something. We can only do our best to forgive on the outside but are not capable of total forgiveness on the inside. God understands this because he made us this way. But he only had one son that was pure and total forgiveness takes total purity. We fall far short of purity. That is why we ask God to forgive us for that shortcoming and if it is heart-felt, he will forgive us too.

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      dianetrotterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Wow!  You are keeping it real.  I have tried to think of forgiveness as "forgetness."  Some things you just can't forget.

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      ChristopherJRexposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Did God forgive before or after he "supposedly" flooded the Earth?  How about when he was responsible for the decimation of Sodom and Gomorrah?  Or when he sent the 10 plagues upon Egypt?  Seems to me like God forgives as well as a 10-year old does..

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      dianetrotterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Christopher, are you saying God exists?

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      ChristopherJRexposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      A “global” flood never occurred; nor is there physical evidence for any of the other supernatural events that occurred in the Bible.  The Christian God is not unlike any other deity created by humans: flawed, hypocritical, childish, and imaginary.

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      dianetrotterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Christopher, if he is imaginary, he can't be any of the other things.  Those are human attributes.

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      taburkettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I believe that many Christians are capable of complete and unconditional forgiveness. It occurs everyday for Christians who do not take the law into their own hands but pray for God to settle the situation. Forgiveness is not full pardon - God's Law.

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      ChristopherJRexposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Diane, please try to describe Santa Claus without using any human attributes.  Humans are notorious for anthropomorphizing animals, inanimate objects, and imaginary beings.  Haven’t you ever said that your phone/car/computer “hates” you?

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      dianetrotterposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Chrsitopher, I think of Santa like I think of Mickey Mouse, Easter Bunny, Sponge Bob.  I have called my car stupid

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