Do you think some modern-day clergy are just free-loaders?
The parishioners pay everything for them or just about everything. The house they live in, the church, meals, utilities are all paid by the parishioners. They do not even pay taxes. It is all done by tithing and building fund pleading.
Absolutely in this case scenario. The church itself cannot maintain itself or pay its utilities. But funds being used for personal use, such as rent, utilities, food, other living expenses is ridiculous when those funds should be used for the good of the community, as well as parishioners who hit hard times. Elderly, children need food, clothing etc, yet funds that could be used for these things, are being used to support the clergy. If a church has living quarters for clergy, that is fine but he or she should pay the costs of living in free housing.
I imagine there are some who fit that mold but there are also some who do not take (any) salary from their church. A couple of known examples are Joel Osteen and Bishop T.D. Jakes.
They make millions of dollars through the sell of their books, speaking engagements, and other avenues. Jakes has produced a few movies. Naturally it could be argued that their members are the ones who are buying their books or whatever but it's still an exchange of money for an actual product the same as it would be with any other author and their fans.
I wonder how much they contribute to their church, etc. Remember Jim and Tammy Faye Baker!
I know of a few who were fired. I am wondering what happens to them. I also know of many other Evengelists, who live and have a huge church or housing. Didn't these clergy take an oath?
I'm unaware of a clergy oath however I would imagine most ministers hold prayer for their ill members, institute programs to help the less fortunate, perform weddings and eulogies...etc "Prosperity ministers" believe God wants you to be rich!
I suppose there are some but the pastors I've known put in long hours and don't exactly live lavish lifestyles. Many have to take second jobs to pay their bills.
Thank you for your honest answer. What bills would you be talking about?
Food, electric, clothes. Although many live in parsonages, unless it's a fairly large church the salary doesn't cover all the expenses, especially if they have children. And many don't live in parsonages.
I have not seen many that do not live in parsonages. Thank you for that information.
Interesting question. I never thought of any of those things as free-loading. I always thought that they were just perks of the job like my own employer supplied cell phone and laptop and employer subsidized health insurance. The clergy that I have known have all been hardworking people who worked many hours day and night in service to their congregations.
According to the scriptures Pastors are entitle to support from the congregation. But here is the catch;they are suppose to be hearing from the LORD,preaching,living and teaching the Holy Word of GOD! The majority of the preachers aren't doing this. Also the men and women of GOD are not suppose to be a burden on the flock, The Apostle Paul worked as a tent maker in order not to be a burden. I believe that JESUS will take care of HIS bride, after all he told Peter to get money out of the mouth of the first fish he caught (Matt.17:27). GOD is the GOD today as HE was yesterday!
It depends on the church. I've known pastors of small churches that can't afford to pay a living wage or own a parsonage, and these pastors work day jobs to support their families. I had one Pentecostal neighbor in North Arkansas who worked a regular job as an auto mechanic and preached on Sundays and Wednesday evenings. He was a sincere, good man. On the other hand, one large church where I lived in Louisiana started building a new parsonage at the urging of the pastor and his wife. It started out as a 3 br, 2 ba, and kept getting bigger. The last I heard it was 5 br, 3 ba and the pastor was still demanding more. We left that town before the scenario ended.
I know of many churches that own real estate. IRS rules require them to pay taxes on any buildings that they use for profit such as renting out space to businesses. Only their not-for-profit qualifies as non-taxable. However, I'm sure that as with any corporation, they have ways of hiding profits, and most of the large church leaders I knew were not above doing just that.
I suppose it's all down to interpretation or your definition of 'freeloading'.
Strictly speaking full time 'professional' clergymen are 'ponces', i.e., live off others. They don't make or do anything we'd consider as earning a living. Nor do they face the same challenges as their parishioners, such as redundancy or homelessness.
They'll only be 'sacked' if they get up to some heinous crime or 'interfere' with youngsters or female parishioners (doctors shouldn't get away with it, so why clergymen, and they both close ranks when the alarm bells go off).
Yet... Yet many of them are a comfort to the bereaved, they do charitable work and risk life and limb going to disaster regions in spite of terrorist threats or disease.
True, you'll find most of the senior clergy at the golf club or in the Upper House (Lords) at Westminster, attending garden fetes and generally doddering about, but that's the top 5%, cocooned in their palaces and precious little to do with real life.
You have the odd one like the Revd.Jenkins, Bishop of Durham (about twenty years ago) who said he didn't believe in God. Well, nor do I, but I'm not a senior church figure who's made a good living from living off platitudes.
There was one locally - here in Forest Gate who remains nameless - who started talking about witches on Wanstead Flats, the open area with football pitches, copses and walks; there's also a ring of trees he said the coven worshipped in - and was transferred out to a historic church in Essex before being 'booted upstairs' to the bishopric of Selby in North Yorkshire.
We had the usual 'flak'-dodging from the Vatican after revelations about paedophile priests and the link with Jimmy Savile, who was made a knight of the Catholic Church by one of the pontiffs. Not to mention several orphanages and children's homes in Ireland and Wales where the clergy in charge abused their charges.
It's a nice life if you can get it.
Ponces?? Now that is a new word and fits to what I was getting at in my question. I like your accounting from your side of the pond. lol
A 'ponce' is someone who lives off immoral earnings, also known as a pimp. A ponce can also be a less than male man, or 'nancy-boy'. Many of the clergy in this part of the world fit that description as well. With that I wish you a Prosperous 2015
I see. Thanks for the clarification and you have a wonderful 2015 too.
YES. The bible tells us they are hirelings and does not speak well of them.
PAUL set and gave us the example for ministry. Provide for your own family and that TRUE MINISTRY is not a position as the "churches of man" do it, but is a LABOR OF LOVE.. Most men in the churches today are not called by God, but by MEN. they believe the lies, false teachings, and love of prestige that they are taught. They do not understand the bible or they could not be a pArt of the apostate church sytem that they are either a part of or emulate. They serve "MY" CHURCH, OR MY DENOMINATION and the bible is clear NO MAN CAN SERVE 2 MASTERS.
A TRUE NEW TESTAMENT MINISTER SERVES CHRIST 'S CHURCH AND understands it has nothing to do with a building or being led by A man.
The true church of Jesus Christ is PEOPLE FOLLOWING CHRIST.
TRUE MINISTERS OF THE GOSPEL invest in people, not ministries, denominations, programs, buildings etc. They teach people how to follow Christ so they dont need to follow man. They seek the approval of
God alone and care not about pleasing any man. They serve God because of love not for a paycheck. They understand that titheing was for israel and has no part of the new testament church. They know the example Jesus set "give caesar what is caesars and to God what is His".
They do not desire nor do they seek, salaries, church exemptions or charters etc as God is their source.
The people that have been taught by these TRUE MINISTERS OF THE GOSPEL, know how to hear the Holy Spirit and OBEY HIM when He speaks. They know how to help others without worrying about tax receipts and tha accolades of men because theyKNOW GOD AND FOLLOW HIM ALONE.
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