The final battle, why bother if the outcome is certain?

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   kirstenblogposted 13 years ago

   God V Satan. The Final Smack Down. Get Ready To Rumble!
   But the match is fixed and God will win, no hope in hell for Satan (excuse the pun). Why would Satan even show up? If its certain he cannot hope to win why bother?
   If it was me I would stay home Maybe watch some telly with a drink and some nibbles
   
   If there really is to be a final battle, good versus evil etc. etc. etc. Both sides must have reason to think they can really win. According to the stories Satan was once an angle who fell from grace, it stands to reason that this very old being who has been in the presence of God and has known God better then any human could hope to wouldn't bother fighting if there was no chance of victory. It seems like the reality would be that this battle must be close to 50/50 in its out come. Perhaps hoping for the rapture so the 'good' can gloat about how right they were and how superior they were isn't the best idea. I mean with the battle to end all battles going on and the fate of the universe hangs in the balance is God really going to want to hand pick people to float off up into the sky with superior smirks on their faces? Perhaps God would hand pick people to take a sword and be on the front line but come on what a waste of resources, to give the 'true believers' one last chance to smirk at those dying in unfathomable misery, sounds arrogant to me. I see 'true believers' smirking about their superiority often (and on this site) and have no reason to think the rapture would stop those smirks. Personally if this is how it goes down, no rapture for me please, let me be a field medic or something useful in the final battle.
   
   Really it all just sounds like a hollywood movie, not reality but for the sake of argument we will say its all true and exactly how things will go. Do you want one last chance to smirk at all those who didn't listen to your wise words in the rapture? Or would you prefer to choose a side and do something useful for that side? (by the way the side I would choose would that of God)

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      AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Game of cards for souls played by God and the Devil on a Spanish train

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      SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Satan actually thinks he can win.
      
      
      
      
      Believers do not smirk at unbelievers. We do not act superior to others either. What you seem to fail to understand is that it is not about me, it is about Jesus. He is the one who is superior. God doesn't hand pick people. He made arrangements for everyone.
      
      
      
      It is not a movie. It is real and will happen because God said it will.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         And, you are you to say what GOD's will is truly? No one, you're just as misguided as the rest of the world who believes in a mystical higher power.
         
         Please, the only thing you have to back up anything you say is your scripture which is filled with ambiguity and conjecture, and has been manipulated by mankind long before you were ever born.
         
         Please, save us the trial and tribulations offered by the bible, because it's not factual to begin with. Sure, there might be some facts contained within the book? But, who is to say what is right or wrong within the book, considering it's based on the interpretations of individuals. If those individual's don't truly understand life, then they must seek guidance outside themselves, for which, you have done.
         
         Your irresponsibility, of forming an incorrect belief or forming a foundation based on false truths is your problem to see pass and your own ignorance won't open your mind enough to incorporate anything other than what you've already come to believe.

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      tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Where did you think Hollywood got the ideas for the Blockbusters  and all the FX?
      
      

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I love Hollywood but it usually is not an accurate representation for reality

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            tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            that's my point!
            this 'Battle' isn't Reality
            

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      cosetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      haha good opening statement!
      
      God would win, because God is good and Satan is evil and good always triumphs over evil.
      
      (hypotheticlaly speaking)

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   CMHypnoposted 13 years ago

   Why does everything have to be about fighting?  I thought that God was supposed to be all about peace and love?  Also if God is omnipotent why would Satan even be a problem?
   
   I think that a lot of these ideas are human based, and we just need to evolve away from our need for violence.  When we all know that war never solves anything, why do we keep starting them?

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      kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is a more sensible response then I expected
      It seems that a lot of the religious forums are talking about the second coming and all the stuff that is supposed to go with it so that is why I got to wondering about it. I like your response and would love to see us evolve away from the almost love of violence that society seems to have. Thanks for your response it gave me a smile

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         CMHypnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Trouble is I think that a lot of people are looking forward to Armaggedon for some strange reason and will be disappointed when it never happens.
         
         Even if they do get 'raptured' you would have to be pretty sick to enjoy the sight of the rest of us being incinerated or enduring plagues, so why look forward to it?
         
         Live and let live, peace, and lots of hot tea and scones with clotted cream and jam is my prediction for the future.  We don't need more wars - even heavenly ones!

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   Arthur Fontesposted 13 years ago

   This always perplexed me if God is everything and that would include any Satan figure as well. 
   
   If they were to fight already knowing the outcome than maybe Vince Mcmahon is the messiah and we can watch the battle on the WWE.

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   alexandriaruthkposted 13 years ago

   God is peace loving and He will never succumbed to SATAN<

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   ohkennyabiposted 13 years ago

   It is pride, it is pride that cause the downfall of Satan. To me the battle is always on going, on a daily basis. It is the battle for the human souls. Satan for sure will be defeated at the final battle/final show down but he is not going down alone. He is going to drag as many down as possible before his final defeat.

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   ralwusposted 13 years ago

   I do not concern myself with such blatant lies.

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   After about 10 years of analyzing scripture attempting to "UNINTERPRETATE scripture this is the conclusion that I have come up with.  Just my opinion ; but I firmly believe this to be true.
       I think that the battle of Armageddon is very near in our future. I think that everyone sees the obvious destination that the world is coming to. 
       If that is true and Armageddon is upon us; we need to analyze the sequence of events described in prophesy. Scripture does describe them in sequence. It should be common sense that the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven vials do not all occurs in a short time frame as it has been taught.
        If this BIG SMACK Down as you describe is upon us, that would mean that all of prophesy has already passed except for the seventh trumpet and seventh seal judgments being handed out.  But before this happens Rev. 17:16 will be fulfilled a short period of thime before the actual battle. Mystery Babylon will be destroyed.

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   Royal Diademposted 13 years ago

   I agree with you

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Scripture teaches that  the beast that is given 42 months to blaspheme will  DECIEVE  the world!  If that beast has been among us already and has already deceived the world; How many will realize that we have been deceived ???????
      
         When the Dragon cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman in Rev. 12 and the world swallows it up; What do you suppose that water as a flood represents??  I believe that it represents LIES and Misinterpretations that the people of the world beliefs.
          If this is true and we have been deceived, would we be aware of it having already taken place?

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         aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Jerami,
         
         Well those who have been revitalised by the Holy Spirit would know about the deception, but those deceived willingly or not would have no idea.
         
         During WW2 the Germans never realised that the Allies had captured an Enigma code machine, which allowed the Brits to intercept all the German traffic, thereby knowing in advance what the Germans would be doing.
         
         I guess we can all see the analogy, those in deception have no idea, those getting the intercepts know precisely what will happen.
         
         I fully understand all this friction in atheists about believers getting ready for the final battles, for although it may be 'fun' to chide we believers about the rapture and suchlike, obviously it is not so much fun anticipating that there may actually be this final battle, and that they may be on the wrong side in that battle.
         
         No believer will be smug or satisfied to see the rest of humanity perish, for there is no reason that they should perish, it's their own choice and they need not make it, and any believer will have sorrow seeing what will happen.
         
         Christ tells us to sit it out simply because He has no need for those gathered to Him to fight, He can handle the whole Armageddon scenario Himself, without help from anyone.
         
         The best thing is, that each day we draw nearer to the finale and that means the start of a whole new chapter.
         
         Even the new agers believe this, though their version has them winning when all the 'bad' spirits who will not evolve and learn new age concepts are 'eliminated'..... which is how they will explain the rapture of believers.
         
         So IF you hear that news, you will have very little time to find a comfy seat from which to watch the final battle, and indeed take part in it.

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Hi Aqua ..  I think that we agree upon things in general;I think that prophesy has been unfolding for a longer period of time than most, but the final chapter brings us back to the same place.
                 
                I have always heard that to know where we are headed all that we have to do is to look over our shoulder and see which direction that we have been coming  AWAY  FROM and project this view forward. By doing this it should be obvious to all that there is a brick wall in our near future. And  we are all on the trains that are headed toward that wall all destined to arrive at the same time.
                We can not stop the trains.     
                I agree with you completely that Believers are in fact saddened that the world does not see the brick wall nor realize that we are all on one of those trains.
               All that we can do is to be as prepaired and hope that we have not misunderstood the word of God. Hope that we are not one of those that even though we have cast out demons in his name, Jesus says, "I have not known you"

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   As for the final battle, as you speak of Kirsten. It will never happen. It's mythology.

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    The Paulposted 13 years ago

    I think the point of the initial post is being missed.
    
    Satan is supposed to be so bloody clever, right?  I hear a lot that you have to rely on faith and can't trust logic because no one could ever outwit the devil.
    
    So if this guy's so bloody clever, why's he rushing off to certain doom?
    
    The real answer is pretty simple, but a little more complex that "it's just a myth."
    
    It's just a collection of myths.  Different myths from different people who lived at different times, and if you jam it all together and pretend its a single narrative it doesn't make sense.

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    yoshi97posted 13 years ago

    I've fought with myself over this one for years, but my own battle goes much deeper ...
    
    God wants people to turn away from Satan, and yet, as powerful as he is he does nothing to vanquish Satan. Knowing the final outcome - God defeats Satan - why doesn't God do it and get it over with?
    
    Also, if we are made in God's image, why is it so much easier to commit acts deemed as evil? If we truly are made of God's image, wouldn't we be incapable of such things?
    
    Another thought ... we are asked to believe without proof, and yet, wouldn't conclusive proof end all disbelief?
    
    Want to end the war in Israel? Have God reach down and kill either side ... This is the same God that ended the world in a flood and plagued the Egyptians, so certainly he is capable, right?
    
    As someone who once fervently believed I find the mounting evidence to not believe growing to insurmountable proportions. As I have said so many times on these forums, I still believe in the idealism of being good to one another and helping one another, but my research is showing that men without a God are just as capable of goodness and compassion as men who say they are with God.
    
    So, is religion just a means to control the populous?  The more I see ... the more I believe it to be true. And if I'm right ... this Armageddon in waiting is nothing more than another control mechanism to help the self-proclaimed righteous (church leaders) rule over those who are not yet ready to believe in themselves.
    
    Ask yourself this ... If you live a good life but refuse to believe in God, are you a wicked person? On the converse ... if you fervently believe in God and commit atrocious acts, are you still considered a good person?
    
    Belief or disbelief does not determine the worth of a human being ... it's their actions that say what one is made of ...
    
    And why is the outcome certain for the final battle? Because it's all a script designed to make us believe that good must eventually triumph over evil, negating the wants of many to become privateers, looking out for only themselves. The lesson given is to join the side of good before it's too late - and one will never know when that day will actually come, as then one could chose to do evil up and until that date.
    
    Given all of the information in the biblical texts ... if all of this was real and was truly going to happen ... wouldn't it have happened in the lifetime of those who wrote about it?
    
    Why warn people of an event that will happen hundreds of generations beyond their lifespan? Because it's the 'not knowing' that makes believers believe. If they all had proof that revelations would occur and had an actual date, then surely most would not be believers until the night before.
    
    Again, I once believed fervently, but that strong belief ended when I was told a love one died a painful death because I didn't pray enough for her to die peacefully. That moment changed my whole outlook, and it has continued to erode as I have questioned that which I once accepted without need for proof.
    
    Is there a God? Is there a Satan? Will there be a final battle? None of that matters to me anymore. All that matters to me is that we exist, and share a responsibility to do what we can to perpetuate our species.
    
    To survive, we must emotionally evolve to a point where we fix the problems of the world, rather than clasp our hands together and hope they go away. Maybe the clasping of the hands upward once meant something else ... that one was offering his hands up to assist ... and perhaps that message became convoluted over time.

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       AdsenseStrategiesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Exaaaactly. It is all very well for us to sit here with our clean running water, sewage systems, electricity, childhood vaccination programs, absence of all-out war on this continent since the nineteenth century, etc, and say... well let everyone else wait for the final battle... But if God was truly compassionate he'd be taking out the trash the world over, because there are some seriously sick people out there (just been reading about Somalia in the 1990s, but the examples are endless... Bosnia, Sri Lanka...)

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          yoshi97posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Darfur, Rwanda, Cambodia ...

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    Denno66posted 13 years ago

    Um, one word. Money.

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