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Yeah, well Islam is getting a pretty bad reputation around the world, especially in the west. I don't think you guys have been doing a good enough sales job. Perhaps if you could rein in the extremist members you'd be more successful at recruiting.
I was going to ignore him the OP for spamming the forums, but seeing as you have replied, I'll put this comment up.
DO NOT SPAM THE FORUMS!!
Just a small queiry my muslim friend. You know God said in the
Quran2;125 "muslims are protected in mecca". then how come thousands of piligrims were killed in the holy city by Juayman and gang? Why didnt the God intervened and live up to his words he proclaimed in the Quran? Or is there a deeper meaning to his words? Please do explain as i find this statement among others quite confusing. thanks
GOD DAMMIT...I was abt to start my questions then u opend my eyes Ashwin. Dont wate ur time in this topic coz if we all start showing him da flaws of islam then dis guy with dis Topic will definitely bcome the famous hubber with highest number of traffic
okie dokie my friend. anyway im dying to know what was your question.
Theres plenty..in fact i have so many contradictory q's regarding Islam that I can Bombard this page with questions..hehehe..Ryt now..since he mentioned dat It is a universal idea without discrimination...nd it ensures Equality in economics, justice, politics...bla bla bla.. I was going to point out these:
1. Islam does not accept women leadership. It is prohibited. And in some cases it is taken as a sign of end of days (when women will dress like men and start to rule countries...the Qyamah will come)
2. In case of property distribution, the general islamic rule is male: female = 2:1
3. In Quran, there are many exquisite promises are mentioned for Muslims. i.e. Every single man will have 70 Hurs (Beautiful angels, which is usually a Mujahids incentive to going for a suicide bombing ) Hoever, theres no such promises made for women. i.e. Not a single tom cruise or Arnold would be there for them.
There are plenty more discriminations with women...I dont know how they call it a religion of equality. The truth is, Islam originated in an area nd in a time where the women of arabic society was totally suppressd by the men, tortured and killed like inferior animals. The rise of Islam helped to change it to some extent and established some rights for their women. However, after 2000 years, we are finding those religious laws to be backdated, old and flawed since we have already came with better ideas
I don't think any God would impose such rulings on women. What did they do? aren't they creations of God as well? Why are they being condemned like that? The Qyamah come when women wear pants and start ruling? Women have been doing that for a long time and i see no Qyamah. I think this was more likely created by horny chuvanist men looking for a easy score
"It is a universal idea without discrimination"
Well I think it does a pretty good job of discriminating against women and making them into second class citizens. Look at rigorously Muslim countries: women are not allowed to go out on their own, drive a car, wear the clothes they wish to wear, initiate divorce proceedings...
to say nothing of the violence they have to endure if they go against the system
Screw all religions, Muslim, Christianity, it's all a delusion, and spamming forums is not going to change that.
Do you hate all hospitals because there are a lot of corrupt, incompetent doctors in the world? Because the specific medical concerns of women and certain ethnic groups were (are?) given less attention than appropriate? Does that make hospitals a bad idea?
Well..its unlike hospitals nd more like Bars with full of drunkards...In that case, Bar obviously sounds a bad idea
How many corrupt doctors are there really?
And with the corrupt and incompetent doctors at least I can see their reasoning, and more importantly the reasoning of the doctors which are not corrupt, and not incompetent.
What is the reason to believe in a non-existent entity, there is no reason, there is no proof, and rather than helping people it has done nothing but cause war for the last two thousand years.
Peoples minds have forever had trouble with grasping the unknown, and books such as the God Delusion explain it well.
Since we were monkeys, evolution has trained us to be slightly psychotic, A monkey that jumps when it imagines a panther in a shadow will still survive when it sees a panther that looks like a shadow.
Imagination is one of humans greatest achievements, but it has also caused the human race Religion. Filling in the gaps of our knowledge with a simple, but ignorant, answer of God.
If a cult of people started who believed in an invisible, omnipotent, omnipresent, jelly baby, would you believe in it simply because your parents said it was true, along with millions of other people?
I don't particularly care what people personally believe, but I will stand up for atheism. It seems insane to me that people can still believe in God, there is no rationality in it.
If you want to be religious, be religious, but I see no reason why you should paint yourself as a target by revealing those delusions to everybody else.
"How many corrupt doctors are there really?"
More than you'd think. See, you don't want to think so...
"If you want to be religious, be religious, but I see no reason why you should paint yourself as a target by revealing those delusions to everybody else."
But you can see why you would want to reveal the delusions of atheism? I guess we all see what we want to see and just can't imagine why those who think differently are so darn messed up.
"More than you'd think. See, you don't want to think so..."
I don't have any proof of corrupt doctors, and I have never read anything about corrupt doctors, maybe you could put some evidence behind your less than substantial claims.
"But you can see why you would want to reveal the delusions of atheism? I guess we all see what we want to see and just can't imagine why those who think differently are so darn messed up."
There is plenty of evidence behind Atheism, every Theist argument for religion has been debunked. Science has unity, it has facts, it has reasoned arguments and debates all backed by evidence to support it. Religion has thousands of incantations, some more popular than others, each one claiming it is right, none of which can offer any supporting proof other than books which have been heavily edited by men, most of which also contain information which is historically inaccurate.
Feel free to keep arguing, I will probably lose by giving in an argument simply because i give up in frustration, several notable figures have mentioned how arguing against a religious person is a waste of time since they do not accept facts or reason in their argument. (See, Thomas Jefferson, Einstein, or if those don't appeal, Douglas Adams)
"I don't have any proof of corrupt doctors, and I have never read anything about corrupt doctors"
So you don't believe there are corrupt doctors? I wish you could see how your attitude is just the flip side of what you would dismiss in others. It's funny.
You are a true believer.
I think it's funny how you failed to miss my point completely, I ask for proof of corrupt doctors, and point towards proofs of Atheism, you completely ignore the proof and change the subject completely towards doctors.
Rationality and proof is not belief, belief is when you have no proof, and have failed to rationalise.
Just out of interest are you religious?
The earlier comment you made on servitude either comes from someone who is not a theist, or does not realise how their own religion also demands servitude.
My personal beliefs are private. Yours are not, as you have proven again.
My comments about servitude were in regards to the meaning of the actual word 'Islam'
It means Submission to God, which is no less than any other deity has requested from it's followers. Take Christianity, if you even acknowledge the existence of other religions, God will smite thee down.
I have mentioned several times that Atheism is not a belief, it is a lack of belief. do I have to prove that again?
i think it is a form of controll on the men side if they think that what makes a man your wrong
Islam, as Christianity, is a tool that is used by elites to ensure the ongoing servitude of everyone else Sab.....
To pick one over the other only shows bias.....
I'm glad to be free of it...
I do feel servitude to my society/community, but I would rather have that then some delusion of afterlife....
I struggle to understand how people can be more focused on after death than life.....it makes no sense to me...
But back to the theme of this thread,
If Muslims are going to be rideculed or looked at differently because of "terrorism" why are their Christian counterparts not being viewed the same way....
It is really that simple.....
Extremists are on each side....but the media emphasizes "Islamic" when something happens involving Muslims....but when a Christian bombs an abortion clinic, or a Christian militia massacres Muslims (Bosnia)...or even in the United States (Puritans et al) we don't hear about it so much, or it is detached from religion...
Bias...that is all...
I used to be the same way...I used to be on the Christian team...and I used the same arguments about Islam that I see people here using (throughout the site)....
But, after walking away from my religion, I decided to take a step back and evaluate many religions....
To point to one side and not the other only shows partisanship....and I'm glad to be free from it all...I only hope more can do the same...
I respect Muslims as I respect Christians...which is all based on who they are as people as opposed to their religious faith......and I have great relationships with those in both camps.....if only they could stop eyeballing each other with so much suspicion...
But, then again, both religions are forces of soul-based imperialism....and teach their constituents to not see one another eye to eye.....which is the problem with both faiths...
I think it's high time we focused on our living years and not what we may or may not do after we're dead.....
"I do feel servitude to my society/community, but I would rather have that then some delusion of afterlife...."
You - of course - misunderstood to what I was referring
" or a Christian militia massacres Muslims (Bosnia)."
I think the Bosnian Muslims were caught up in the cross-fire between Serbs (Orthodox) and Croats (Catholic). I lived in ex-Yugoslavia for 5 years. The Serb/Croat emnity was simmering long before Tito died.
I didn't see "what's the message of Islam" anywhere in this post, Sab.....so I figured that you selectively placed it there....
If you were responding to someone in this thread, what you say would make sense....but you did something else..
Therefore, if you wanted to be more accurate, and not garner the response from me that you received, you would reflect a broad approach to include religion as a whole, perhaps?
Otherwise, my counter is in form.......to limit "servitude" to Islam in isolation is pointless....
"several notable figures have mentioned how arguing against a religious person is a waste of time since they do not accept facts or reason in their argument."
Happened faster than I thought.
Sab, how about some logic for you...
Now, "Islam" does not mean "servitude."
"Submission" is not synonymous...
A child may submit to the will of his or her parents, but that does not mean that they are in servitude status....
There is some similarity, but connotation ultimately discerns which word and context works best...
Now, "Submission" to the will of God is supposed to be an act done out of respect/love for one's higher being......one could argue fear is involved...but God does not accept those who follow because of fear itself..meaning fear of torment following death per se.....rather it is the fear of being cut off from that entity that is most respected or adored....
God, in the Bible or Quran, does use servants who submit to his will, including Satan himself.........but because they do God's bidding does not imply that they respect or love God.....
Job submitted to the will of God because of his connection to his creator......Satan, in the same story, serves God's larger purpose by proving Satan wrong....he is the servant of God's greater design....
Again, submission does not have to be willful, but in relation to God (to gain acceptance) it has to...
Servitude may be useful to God, but has no demand on the servant to love or respect God..
In the book of Revelations (though I am not a Christian I still know the bible) John sees people surrounding God's throne chanting to him......this is what they do in heaven...at least the one John was shown if we are to believe the story...
is this submission or servitude?
002.001 Alif, Lam, Mim.
“Al-Qur'an, 002.001 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
002.002 ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لا رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِلْمُتَّقِينَ
002.002 This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
“Al-Qur'an, 002.002 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
002.003 الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ
002.003 Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
“Al-Qur'an, 002.003 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
we r the greatest ummah. people belives in things which they have seen but we belive on power whom we never seen, so c our faith how much its strong. we dont worship sun,moon, clay, or God of flesh we belive n worship on Allah, who is so nearly to us, more nearly to our vessels. (I dont think my words r rude , some people call it as rude)
Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
“Al-Qur'an, 002.003 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
“Al-Qur'an, 002.004 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
“Al-Qur'an, 002.005 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
“Al-Qur'an, 002.006 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
“Al-Qur'an, 002.007 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
002.008 Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
“Al-Qur'an, 002.008 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
“Al-Qur'an, 002.010 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"
“Al-Qur'an, 002.011 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
( this last ayat seems to b for u)
“Al-Qur'an, 002.012 (Al-Baqara [The Cow]).”
When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
All I can say to those people who are so fantically enmeshed in religious dogma that they must offer "scripture" rather than original thought is that they are simply fundamental "followers" whom evolution has "skipped," in their genetic programming, an aptitude for intellect.
I fear those lower forms of human animal life. Their history proves that that fear is deserved!
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