Finding original teachings: Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus

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50
paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Hi friends

I understand that the original teachings of Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster and Jesus; all perfect fruits of humanity and personification of wisdom and knowledge; have been lost in the original language they spoke or write.

This is very important as could be understood from the following experience in case of Buddha I suggested to my friend teacher crmhaske:

You just make an experience. If we take one generation of 25 years; then it would be about 16 generation since the death of Buddha. The verbal transmission would have exchanged chain of 16 heads at least, if not more. Make five rows of persons whom you trust to be most memorizing; each row having 16 people in it. Then transmit text of passages as long as the Pali canon; to the first person in the rows hitherto unknown to them. When the first persons has been given enough time to memorize the text, then he should go to the next person in the row and transmit it to him; till the message reaches the last person in the row one by one. The last person should write the message. Since there are five rows; you will get five messages. Now see for yourself as to what has happened to the original message.

I encourage the followers of Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster and Jesus to try similar experience.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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1. 0
  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The truth isn't found in the original message, but in a message that works for you. What was true centuries ago may not be entirely true today. To adhere fundamentally to archaic teachings is terribly naive.
  
  I don't have in writing the exact words of the Buddha, but I don't need them.
  
  Furthermore, a game of telephone is something completely different than monks who have dedicated their life to memorizing and passing a figure's teachings.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend crmhaske
  
  You can choose teams of people even from the dedicated monks; no restriction and no compulsion.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
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  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be impossible to replicate what you are asking in our lifetime.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend crmhaske
  
  In other words you deny that Buddha had any truthful teachings that you or any other humans need. So you are not a believer or follower of Buddha; and you just speak about Buddha for the sake of fun; if I have understood you correctly. Please elaborate further for us.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  0
  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't deny that the Buddha has any truthful teachings, I think that the Buddha has many. What I'm saying is that Buddhists are not representative of Buddhism - but neither are Christians of Christianity or Jews of Judaism or Muslims of Islam or Hindus of Hinduism and on and on.
  
  I don't believe in religion, but I do believe in the Buddha - that he was a real person that hacked a path up the mountain that I like best over the other possible paths I could choose to follow.
  
  Religion is faulty. It's like trying to interpret a painting after the artist is dead or analyzing a poem after the poet has died. It's impossible to get the exact message the artist/poet/writer etc. intended, but if the message you've decided on works for you, then so be it.
  
  I call myself a Buddhist because it's just easier that way. It's the belief system I most closely align with, but my "belief" system is a lot more complex than that.
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59
dfagerposted 14 years ago
I don't understand how Islam is different from the rest of the world's religions in this respect. Furthermore I believe that God reveals himself to the individual so that the individual can choose to believe and accept His authority. Even Moses made a choice. If I were Moses, what's to stop me from thinking I was crazy, dreaming or hallucinating? Finding God is something that is done individually, it is subjective.
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1. 50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friends
  
  Once the Creator- God Allah YHWH has chosen and sent a Messengers Prophet; the humans can only reach God by accepting him; if they deny him; they cannot reach Him.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  61
  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is what doesnot make sense to me my friend..prophet denial or acceptance...making prophet more impt than true essence..religion ,if real should not be taught or read from books..it shuld come naturally...now if u see someone say dying and u can save him/her , would u read some book or listen to some prophet about whether u shuld save him or not?..no..u wuld go ahead and save him..thats natural which comes from within..that is only true religion which is called humanity...be human , do good..keep it simple..thats it..
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend pisean282311
  
  Like in Science one relies and learns with certainty from the experiments of the Scientists; so in religion one learns from the experience of the great men who reached God Allah YHWH with certainty and God Allah YHWH acknowledged it by selecting them as Messengers Prophets. It is best that one accepts them and follows in their experience.
  
  Revelation is a Word descended from God Allah YHWH and authored by Him; if one does not want to read it from the written; one can learn it from others. Nowadays tape recordings and cassestes are also available, one can hear them.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  61
  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that is my whole point my friend..did allah made manual on how to breath or how food get converted into energy..no ..it is natural..in same way if god wanted religion as prophets claim it to be , HE would have programmed man since birth for it..u and i wuld have been born with it like we are born with hearth that beats, brain that thinks..religion is not natural...spirituality is. ..humanity is , empathy is ..that is true religion..rest are good ideas which at times get interpreted and used for political needs..
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend pisean282311
  
  Natural is what has been destined by the Creator - God Allah YHWH in the physical realm; similarly natural in the Ethical, Moral and the Spiritual realms is what he has destined for our guidance.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
80
sunforgedposted 14 years ago
A really great source of original texts of all faiths is

http://www.sacred-texts.com/
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1. 50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend sunforged
  
  The original texts of Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses and Jesus are not available with them in their original languages they spoke. Please check them if they have. A Buddhist here crmhaske denies that Buddha left no written text of his teachings. Please check it
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  80
  sunforgedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  w/o checking I would agree - The Buddhas lessons/sutras were transmitted orally , the tradition was kept for near 200 years.
  
  this is not uncommon within religious tradions and really isnt any issue to argue about!
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  0
  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No original writings of the Buddha have been found to date. Maybe they exist, but we haven't found them. I'm doubtful they exist. It would have been pointless for the Buddha to write his teachings when the people he wanted to teach to wouldn't be able to read them, but you never know.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend crmhaske
  
  A wise man thinks ahead of times; now the Buddhists in so many countries could have read his written words of wisdom and got guidance. Instead of Buddha's own teachings; people are reading things " in Buddha's name" which he never believed or taught.
  
  I love Buddha and Krishna as I love Moses and Jesus.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  60
  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Momo left no written word either.... he recited his suppossed revalations paas. True that after a time others wrote them down. Matter of fact there is a very prominent dispute as to whether or not Momo wrote the qu'ran at all, or if he was simply tutored by some friends.
  
  There are several lines of thought...
  
  Some believe that two men, Jabar and Yassar, who were well versed in the Pentatauch and the Gospels aided him, tutoring him in those things which he would need to kow about each of the religions to passs off his sham.
  
  Others allege Abdullah Ebu Salab a very learned Jew and intamite friend of Mohhammud taught him and guided him in those things he would need to know.
  
  But the general opinion is that a man named Salam, a Persian, and another named Sergius Boheria a nestorian monk and friend of Momo's from his youth, are the ones who helped him in his scheming.
  
  Regardless... Mohhammud himself never wrote a word of the Qu'ran... he recited it. And the fact that these others probrably all helped at some point is obvious from the confabullated confusion of the qu'ran itself.
  
  allah doesn't haver a clue about the history of Isreal, or Christianity in the qu'ran, one of it's most glaring errors, and can't even figure out at times whether he is supposed to recite in the first person plaurality, or not.
  
  To try to equate Islam to any of the world's great religion as as valid as they... is absurd. Anyone who has read the Torat, Ingeel and Qu'ran can see plainly the direct contridiction between Islam and the other two.
  
  I know you won't answer me, paas. But enjoy the read anyway...
  reply report
61
tantrumposted 14 years ago
The only real teachings in this world are 'Nature' teachings. Simple as that. You don't need a Buddha, Jesus, Mohamed, Zoroaster, etc, to know what's good or bad. You don't need them to know what's ethic.
Why Man has to complicate things so much ? It seems we have a very complicated mind. I wonder who created it. Not a God for sure. It looks more like a scientific test gone wrong . LOL
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1. 61
  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  exactly..i totally agree with tantrum..
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  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
2. 50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend tantrum
  
  You are totally wrong here. Like you need to study Science and acquire othe knowledges; and you don't rest with the nature only ; the same way in Ethical, Moral and Spiritual realsm one needs to acquire guidance very naturally.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you're the one that needs guidance !
  
  Your peaceful 'virtual' friend
  
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks
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  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome !
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Morning Ms. T
  
  I can Aaallmmoost agree with your statement.
  That scientist you speak of COULD ? be who we are calling God.
  
  And I agree that Nature is our best teacher.
  According to the Books; this is all that the vast majority of the people had to guide them before the invention of Religion.
  
  I wouldn't want to ignore the presence of some kind of spiritual influence though.
  I think Right here is a good place out of witch to have our beliefs sprout and grow ?
  Everything gotta continue to grow, ya think ?
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  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah!
  but spirituality can be taught or perceived without religion.
  It's within you. You choose to be spiritual or not.
  Religion only gather people together to manipulate them. Just like politics. The same thing.
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  61
  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  agreed
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're ready for my Religion !
  
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  pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  prophet tantrum's first disciple..
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I'm building my temple ! LOL
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have to agree with ya again.
  "Religion" as an orginization created by mankind is for the purpose of controlling the masses.
  
  It is always hard to express my thoughts properly because everyone has a diffrent concept of what "Religion" and beliefs in a God are when someone else uses these terms.
  Religion to me sounds kinda like a political party.
  Spirituality can be almost the same beliefs but on more of a personal level. Something like that anyway.
  
  Well, In a little while... I gotta drive over to a bank and get some money,
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  61
  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm off as well. Lots of things to do ! C U later !
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  59
  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  me too, right now later By
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Jerami and Tantrum
  
  If you are finished with your work; please come to the topic:
  
  Finding original teachings: Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus
  
  Others may also join
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  0
  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do their original teachings matter so much to you? A belief system is not defined by what it was, but what it is now. Anything else matters only to the historians. No belief system today is true to what it was the day it was born, Islam included. How are we to progress as a species if we are constantly reaching backwards to the "good old days." Fix today for a better tomorrow. Whatever happened today that you didn't like is because of what happened yesterday that obviously didn't work - so why yearn to repeat it? Nostalgia is such a curious characteristic of Homo sapiens, we always remember things to have been better than they actually were.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend crmhaske
  
  Absolute truth has no time dimension; it is always truthful and refreshing; it flourishes and is progressive.
  
  Why you like Buddha? He was a person who passed long ago.
  
  If he is important to you as a wise human being; why shouldn't he be important for me? The same way Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus etc were and are fruits of the humanity. I would like to read their original writings on one page with translation in the opposite page; or something like that.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  0
  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What you want doesn't exist. There is no one Buddhist document, there are many. None of them were written by the Buddha himself.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I meant authored by him or dictated by him to the scribes or instructed them to preserve in writing.
  
  Thanks
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  0
  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does not exist.
  
  Does not exist.
  
  Does not exist. Tradition at the time was to preserve orally, the Buddha never would have said "write this down for me will you." It was not until the written word was more popular that the oral transmission became a written transmission.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So the Buddhists waited till the oral transmission was corrupted beyond repairs that they assembled to write it down. Why could not they render it to writing to start with when Buddha was alive?
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  55
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't you think it rather unfair for you to expect answers from others when you yourself refuse to answer questions?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you know the answer then it is fair enough if you respond.
  report
  55
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, what you're saying is that when you demonstrate intellectual dishonesty, like you are doing in most of your posts, it means you don't really have an answer, so you fabricate one instead.
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  0
  crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's why I just stopped caring about whatever he has to say.
  report
  59
  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you really believe everything in the Holy Quran was dictated by the Prophet Muhammad or many others added their two bits in it.
  
  If it was written by Muhammad hen he was a fanatic which totally contradicts the saying that he was a tolerant person who preached tolerance amongst religions.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mohitmisra
  
  How do you say that? I don't get it. Does anybody get it?
  
  Bring out any brilliant arguments if you have any?
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  59
  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  earnesthub has posted so any passages.For one he was know as a tolerant person who said to your religion be true as I to mine.
  
  Then are are so many threats in the Holy Quran .
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mohitmisra
  
  I think you would be different from others; they are content to get hold of a list from other websites and think it as a sufficient proof for an obvious conclusion which they have preconceived in their mind; never themselves having read Quran from cover to cover or experiencing it or pondering on its verses from the context of Quran. That is sheer injustice to Quran/Islam/Muhammad; while these people talk much of humanity and justice.
  
  I would like you to just select one such THREAT verse, the most representative one from so many verses you might have with you; then quote the text of the verse with five preceding and five following verses for the usual context. You will yourself understand that there is no threat verse in Quran; there are hard facts in Quran, which man have to confront in this life or will have to confront in the hereafter; and it is a mercy and grace from the Creator-God Allah YHWH that he has forewarned about them.
  
  Quran wants that one should be serious about the life, bestowed by the Creator-God Allah YHWH and one should not while it away ; one should achieve the purpose of life and one should progress in Ethical, Moral and Spiritual realms.
  
  When one misses the purpose of life; and life is so dear to man that man does tolerate even a little discomfort or pain in life; so missing the purpose of life is the torture one inflicts on oneself without knowing it. The Creator-God Allah YHWH only informs of the consequences. It is like one has a cancer in the last stage but one is unaware of it.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
  59
  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Paarsurreli I like as you are a seeker and respect the prophet Muhammad immensely ,yet I speak the truth ,please dont take it personally I do feel that the Holy Quran is not the exclusive work of the Prophet Muhammad..I feel other have added on to it to try and make it the only supreme philosophy like Christianity has.I have read the Holy Quran and did find it too threatening.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mohitmisra
  
  Please read Quran again and quote the verse as requested. Quran is not a voluminous book; one could finish it within a week or two.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  report
  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend mohitmisra
  
  Why do you feel like that? Please feel free to speak but with tangible proofs.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  report
  59
  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Funny how you ask others to produce what you never do yourself.
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  50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend crmhaske
  
  Except Quran; which is as secure and pristine as the time it was Revealed. Since it is authored by the Creator-God Allah YHWH it remains as fresh as ever. It guides in the Ethical, Moral and Spiritual realms; please point out truthful teachings in these realms which is not in Quran; and also mention that teaching in any other Revealed Book which is reasonable and rational for comparison.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report
50
paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Hi friends

Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus etc were and are fruits of the humanity, great people in different regions of the world. I would like to read their original writings on one page with translation in the opposite page; or something like that. Anbody of having any clue to any one of them, please inform here.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
reply report
1. 59
  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Krishna and Jesus never wrote anything, don't know about Moses.
  Zarathustra was a poet who wrote the Gathas.
  reply report
62
SunSevenposted 14 years ago
I feel that the following will have nothing missed out from the original post:

"I understand that the original teachings of Mohammed, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster and Jesus; all perfect fruits of humanity and personification of wisdom and knowledge; have been lost in the original language they spoke or write.

This is very important as could be understood from the following experience in case of Buddha I suggested to my friend teacher crmhaske:

You just make an experience. If we take one generation of 25 years; then it would be about 16 generation since the death of Buddha. The verbal transmission would have exchanged chain of 16 heads at least, if not more. Make five rows of persons whom you trust to be most memorizing; each row having 16 people in it. Then transmit text of passages as long as the Pali canon; to the first person in the rows hitherto unknown to them. When the first persons has been given enough time to memorize the text, then he should go to the next person in the row and transmit it to him; till the message reaches the last person in the row one by one. The last person should write the message. Since there are five rows; you will get five messages. Now see for yourself as to what has happened to the original message.

I encourage the followers of Mohammed, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster and Jesus to try similar experience."
reply report
46
Dale Nelsonposted 14 years ago
As I swear no allegiance to any particular religion and like to read all of them to form my own opinions.

The best place i have probably found all religious texts is on http://www.sacredtexts.com

So thats where i find original teachings if that was a question.
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1. 50
  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Dale Nelson
  
  The original teaching is written or dictated by the founder of a religion in the original language it was Revealed; it is good if a translation is provided side by side.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
  reply report

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