Must for a truthful Religion

1. 51

   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   Following are important for a Religion:
   
   1.    The founder of a religion; his historical existence.
   2.    The Message of the founder; whether it has reached us in its pristine and secure form, without doubt.
   3.    The system of security of the meanings of the text of the Message.
   4.    If the Message of the founder has claims, reason, arguments within the message on all important ethical, moral and spiritual matters that confront man in real life.
   
   A fool-proof system on all the four points is essential; if it is not there, such a religion is only mythical and dangerous for humanity.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 65

      Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      interesting...
      
      so if I post a hub claiming that I am God. and that my message to my people is that they should make love to everyone and anyone they see as a means to be closer to me, then by your criteria, my new religion is "truthful"?

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      1. 51

         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hi friend Greek One
         
         You may try such a hub; no compulsion.
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   2. 54

      (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      A god that exists is all that is important for any religion.
      
      
      
      Then, Islam is mythical and dangerous for humanity according to your four points.

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      1. 51

         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hi friend Q
         
         Please prove it vis-a-viz Buddhism and Christianity.
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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         1. 54

            (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            When all else fails, move the goalposts.

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            1. 51

               paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Hi friend Q
               
               I don't understand what you want to convey with your words "When all else fails, move the goalposts.". If you are hesitant to compare Christianity and Buddhism on the points; I do it for you:
               
               1.    The founder of a religion; his historical existence.
               
               Christianity: Generally, the historians mention of no historicity of Jesus; they are not even sure of his name. Jesus is not a Aramaic name; there is a complete thread on this in this forum.
               
               Buddhism: There is no historicity of Buddha's life or his teachings.Buddhist scriptures were written after four hundred years of his death; not in the language Buddha spoke; but in Pali which was not spoken by Buddha, he spoke Magadhi. As our friend crmhaske has mentioned , Buddha did not want that the message was ever written; even then after four hundred years the message was written against the wish of Buddha.
               
               2.    The Message of the founder; whether it has reached us in its pristine and secure form, without doubt.
               
               Christianity: of Jesus has not reached us written by himself or dictated by him or written by somebody expressively authorized by him.The Scribes who wrote it were not eye-witnesses of the incident of Crucifixion, in fact they deserted Jesus at the hour of need; so it is not true that they wrote it with any inspiration.
               Buddhism: There is no certainty that Buddha's message has reached us in its pristine and secure form; it cannot be verified.
               3.    The system of security of the meanings of the text of the Message.
               
               Christianity:There was no method of preservation of the Message of Jesus; hence the original message in the original language has been lost;and only its translation, which is never alternative of the original, is available.
               
               Buddhism: There is no certainty that the message has reached is secure or its meaning derived are true.
               4.    If the Message of the founder has claims, reason, arguments within the message on all important ethical, moral and spiritual matters that confront man in real life.
               
               Christianity:No; their is no such system; hence people and the Church either add a claim or a reason for it; whatever they choose.
               
               Buddhism: There is no system of claim and reason in the Buddhist scriptures.
               
               
               Both Christianity and Buddhism, as we see them presently, have failed to evolve a fool-proof system on all the above points essentials of a truthful religion; although Jesus and Buddha were truthful person, undoubtedly.
               
               P.S. Christians or Buddhists are welcome to comment in the matter, however, I would request to do so in the same format, so that a comparative study is easy to make.
               
               Thanks
               
               I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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               1. 0

                  crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  1. I wanted to say historicity isn't a word, but I looked it up and apparently it is.  However; you used it wrong.  Historicity means having existed in history, which you can't claim the Buddha didn't - he existed, and he spoke.  Taught is not the right word, the Buddha did not teach.
                  2. I don't care about the rest of it.

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               2. 54

                  (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It's what all Islamic propagandists do when their fabrications and lies are being exposed.

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                  1. 0

                     crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     It's what most people do when anything they believe strongly in is proved false.  Even if that's as simple as being a die hard Pepsi fan determined to prove they can taste the difference, but being fooled into thinking that glass of Coke was actually Pepsi (because of how trivial this example is, it is pretty hilarious to see people freak out, and accuse you of lying with this one haha)

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                     1. 51

                        paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Hi friend crmhaske
                        
                        Who proved and when? Please quote from such a person for everybody to see and comment.
                        
                        Thanks
                        
                        I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                        1. 0

                           crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I don't need to quote anybody.  I'm quite intelligent on my own thank you.
                           
                           If you read everything I wrote in this thread, you'd understand.
                           
                           Cognitive dissonance, and the end of the world cult example.  I've repeated them twice already, look for it yourself.

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                           1. 51

                              paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Hi friend crmhaske
                              
                              I meant yourself not somebody else.
                              
                              It is OK if you are hesitant to quote; no compulsion.
                              
                              Regards

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                              1. 61

                                 watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Hi friend paarsurrey! I'm a belligerent atheist. LOL

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                                 1. 51

                                    paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Hi friend watchya
                                    
                                    What makes you so belligerent? Please
                                    
                                    Thanks
                                    
                                    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                                    1. 61

                                       watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       YOU

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                                       1. 51

                                          paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          Hi friend watchya
                                          
                                          You may express yourself fully undauntedly, if you like. I am ears for you.
                                          
                                          Thanks
                                          
                                          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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                                          1. 61

                                             watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             I hope you will be more than ears !

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                                             1. 51

                                                paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                Hi friend watchya
                                                
                                                OK; now proceed further; what made you so belligerent?
                                                
                                                Thanks

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                                                1. 61

                                                   watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                   I told you: You!

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                              2. 0

                                 crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I'm not hesitant, there is just no point.

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                                 1. 80

                                    earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    It may be time to stop feeding the thing under the bridge.
                                    paara aka usmanali aka squidward should not even be here according to the T.O.S as I understand them.

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            2. 0

               crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The corner stone of cognitive dissonance, a condition that will forever plague religion.

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               1. 0

                  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  curious note: doesn't the same apply to any or most sciences? I mean, most equation/non-romantic ( or experimentation ) is constantly changing to meet the demand of the human condition, and its root desire, to know.

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                     crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yup, it applies to all subject to human nature, which, well, is every human
                     
                     The difference I suppose is that some are more prone to recognize this happening in themselves, and stop than others are.  When someone's beliefs tell them not to question, they are less likely to notice this happening - thou some do.  The teacher of my Study of Religion course was one of them.

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                     1. 0

                        Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        No doubt. But such is the immovable nature of the Ism.

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                           crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I agree, all are subject.

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            3. 0

               Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Hmm, what are those exact goalposts, Q?
               And how are they different from the equation expression?

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               1. 0

                  crmhaskeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I think it's just a metaphor that when all else fails, and you can't change the parameters, just change the equation.
                  
                  I gave the example in a previous thread of a group of religious fanatics that were convinced the world was going to end so they grouped together and prayed to be saved, and the world didn't end.  Thou some left the cult when the prophesy wasn't fulfilled, most just accepted the premise that their prayers pleased their God and saved the world.

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      2. 51

         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         How it makes mythical? Please elaborate.

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         1. 63

            ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            myth is any story that uses elaborate symbolic language to convey its esoteric point.
            
            though to some, it erroneously perceived as a lie.
            
            myth is not a lie. it is just constructed using metaphorical language instead of a news report. Children like to listen to fairy tales instead of listen to lectures because of this. you deliver the lesson more efficiently with the use of mythology.
            
            they are however not intended to be taken literally.

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2. 70

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Any religion not based on reality is mystical(mysticism).
   
   Therefore, every religion that has a belief in a creator and/or god is damaging to the world.
   
   Thank you for pointing that out.

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      Valerie Fposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You've missed the logical step that says all mysticism is harmful and have not yet proven that all mysticism is false.

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      1. 70

         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Apparently, as usual, you like to twist things, but mysticism was proven false, a long time ago. If you need to read up on it, then please do so.

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            JulesGeromeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Mysticism can't be proven wrong, because it's a state of one's soul and mind. So it's personal and real for the person involved. Maybe you're mistaking Mysticism with Myths, which are proven false of course ! LOL

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      2. 54

         (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         No one has demonstrated any mysticism isn't false.

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   2. 63

      ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Cagsil, you are normally better at stating your point than this.

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   3. 63

      ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      first of all no religion is based on mundane reality.
      
      next any mention of G-d already is outside of mundane reality.
      
      so what you're saying is religion is bullshit. just say it that way atleast you don't make any pretense of objective opinion.
      
      religion operates on a different reality which is a valid reality in terms of the psyche. The consciousness understands this language deeply.
      
      the problem is when people start to behave like insane people and they cannot translate the reality of the psyche from the physical one.
      
      that's when religion spirals down to mass hysteria and insanity.

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   4. 51

      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend Cagsil
      
      I don't agree with you.
      You are wrong there.
      
      Islam is a reality as it is from an absolute reality the creator-God Allah YHWH and is neither mystical nor it is dangerous for the world.
      
      The world in fact is in danger from the Skepticism Atheism as they have no system in life and no truthful ideology to follow.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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3. 87

   AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 13 years ago

   Last I checked, Mr God didn't have a verifyable historical identity.

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   1. 51

      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend AdeleCosgroveBray
      
      How you verify history? Please
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      1. 87

         AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         
         History is verfied in exactly the same way that anything else is verfied - with evidence. 

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend AdeleCosgroveBray
            
            And how would you define "evidence" here?
            
            Thanks
            
            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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            1. 87

               AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               Evidence = that which proves or disproves something.
               
               Simple, really.

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4. 0

   crmhaskeposted 13 years ago

   I also wanted to add that the Buddha's original message is not what is important, it is how it has evolved that is.  One gets nowhere trying to stay in place or return to the place one started.

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