Peter & SirDent suggested this would make a great topic and I agree.
Most of you probably know my thoughts on this subject already. So what do you all think?
I think in the primitive mind, we have free will, but in the God pattern mind, we have non what so ever. I think what we do here is so stupid, it blows my mind to see how stupid we are.
I think holding on to a primitive revelation of what God is will never lead to anything, unless you get in tune with inter unverisal reality, that we will come back, there is no end, nothing does not exist, God is nothing if that does exist.
What we are is a mass of particals fused together for no apperent reason, I think that all this talk about the Creator God, has been down graded to superficial existance, and I feel really sorry the people are still in the mind set that God is a man.
All we are are space travelers at a microscopic level that eclipsed the Universe itself. You ever heard of a space tordado?
That saying that everthing is done on Earth that it is in Heaven. Look it up, take a peak at what actually is happening in space, it will blow your mind to know, that there are weather like patterns that mimic what we think we know on Earth.
I will go as far as to say, 1+1=1, as stupid as it sounds, think about it. I wrap my mind around things like molecular structures that mimic everything we know, nuclear fusion, please,... do we really get our energy from the sun, sure, but wind doesn't happen soley because of the energy produced by the sun.
Look up Neptunes wind. Neptune is an ice ball yet wind generates at about 1000 mph, and it's energy source is not from the sun...
We are not what we think we are.
My current working hypothesis is that the nature of the Universe allows for both to coexist without paradox.
Every possible variation of the Universe actually exists concurrently with the one we experience.
The "Everything" that is God is the entire Multiverse, not just the entirety of this one branch of it.
This means that while I pat myself on the back for not snapping at my kids today, in an alternate reality, just as real as this one, I did snap at them. I am virtuous, sinner, and sinned against in every possible permutation.
Any decision I am about to make, I actually make/have made BOTH ways.
Thus, complete predestination.
However, my limited conscious awareness can only follow a single path through the probability tree, so at each decision point (which is every split second), my consciousness "chooses" one path to follow.
Thus, free will.
Thus, also, manifesting.
And this is why I cannot judge, because while I may remember resisting temptation in this lifetime, I know that every time I was tempted, in some other part of the probability tree, I fell. Or yielded.
I am/have been a drug addict, alcoholic, murderer, rape victim, Christian fundamentalist, unwed mother, litterbug, arsonist, and person-who-leaves-the-toilet-seat-up. I just don't consciously remember that right now.
Adopted fully, this perspective allows me to release judgement and experience total compassion, even for traditionally awkward subjects as Hitler and Stalin.
There, but for fortune, go you, or I.
P.S. There is some basis for this theory in physics, but I think its genesis owes at least as much to movies like "Sliding Doors", so I am not going to labor the scientific reasoning point.
I am definitely open to the theory of parallel universes, each one spinning out from choices we have made. It is an extremely interesting topic.
And if we're talking movies or tv. Red Dwarf had a great episode based on parallel universes. Made me laugh so hard!
Everything has been destined since the beginning of this universe.Its our ego which makes us believe there is a free will.
So my question to you now would be: If everything is predestined, then what's the point?
If you have zero control over your life why get out of bed in the morning?
I too believe our ego is our real enemy. We must remove the ego in order to progress but I believe in karma whose results are based on the choices we make.
I believe other peoples karma can have influence over our lives as well and that is why it is important who you choose to live your life with and around.
But in the end karma is generated by the choices of sentient beings.
How about the sum of our choices (karma) defines where exactly we are in parallel universes?
I believe we do have free will, and our future is not so much predetermined as known...by God of course.
I would be interested to hear other thoughts on this...
That's a really interesting take on it Peter. I like it.
I believe, of course, that every choice we make, even the seemingly insignificant ones alter our course through this life and many others. We are personally responsible for what happens to us.
I believe we are all bound by something. The lost are bound by Satan himself. They have no free will, but they do have freedom of choice. All have the freedom to choose between Satan and God.
I believe also that those who are saved are bound by God. I think it was the apostle Paul who wrote about being a prisoner of Christ.
I think when you say "freedom of choice" that was the intent of the question, although I could be mistaken.
Otherwise, I think I tend to agree for the most part.
huh? I'll have to think about this one more because if the Son has set us free, then we are free indeed. I don't think we are bound by God, I'm pretty sure He gives us the option.
really a good question,I think we have free will though I do not know why,with so many rules,it hard to see.
who can answer the baffling question as to why space no matter where you go is the temperature???
Space is something like -450 degrees even though these mass explosions occure, even though the sun generates or all stars and almost everything in the Universe generates heat???
WTF how is it that the Boomerange nebula is the coldest known object in the cosmos, at -457 degress, yet it is not an ice ball, but a steller explosion, of nuclear fusion??? Colder then space itself.
I said once, that the big bang was created by cold fusion, but resulted in nuclear fusion. What lies outside the big bang...cold fusion. WTF!!!
Anyone watch the new Universe episode on the History channel last night?
Gravity, if you could theoretically drill a straight hole through the center of the Earth, release an object that will fall by the force of gravity, it will drop and then reach mass capacity at the center and result in prepelled energy, but as you near the surface of the other side, gravity slows down the object so instead of blasting out the other side, you slow to a holt right at the end. huh? it takes 42 minutes.
It takes 42 mintutes no matter were you drill the hole, it takes 42 minutes to travel to the other side. This doesn't blow your mind???
You know it sista!!!!
If I say to Graceful Guardian, that we are really about to stumle upon our virtual reality into the reality, what would your mind do???
The harder concept to understand what we are is, that this, this hole Earth and what we call Life, is just a 42 minute passage through time. huh???
I think everyone who concieves of this will send your mind awash and you will probably get the biggest friggin head ache you ever did have. lol.
Let's say that God, whatever this God actually is, is traveling towards us. As if our Universe is a cosmic rug. Just a flat peice of some sort of fabric of space time, a layer so thin that it's not within our ability to really understand it.
Like this God whatever it is, is about to beat the rug, and send a ripple through the Universe. huh???
Lets say I can explain the voice of God. Think of it like this. I cried to God, something in my soul spilled into the universe, caused a rhythem or ripple if you will, sent way out into Gods kingdom, if you will, and God answered back, like a radio wave, his voice rippled through unknown regions of space whatever space is, and reached my ear.
or in a sence, like the Bible, we sing.
Well,I hope I live through the beating of the rug.lol
I think I will go and see if I can find this show you talked about,sounds very interesting,have a good day Sandra.
Always noticed that people who live dangerously, seem to usually have the attitude, 'that when your time comes' or predestination.
I believe we have free will. But I also have experienced that we don't always understand what free will means; I mean there is more going on within us at subconscious levels that we are not aware of, and so sometimes we think we are acting from free will but are not; we are acting, or reacting from positions of unknowns. and we won't have true free will until we know our unknowns.
so when I think about life being a series of choices, I believe that our choices help us follow a path toward our pre-determined "mission" (we all came with a purpose, a plan), but how we get to the "goal-to complete our mission" is a matter of free will choices, and we can accomplish it in any number of ways...but it is still our individual path, to our individual goal. (defining mission is a whole other quest! )
To me, it is also about who's will, as well. I believe in a Universal Will (God's Will) and our human will. To me, they are intended to be one and the same, eventually, if not already one. And one of the purposes of life is to understand what that means to me as an individual. I believe there is not one soul on earth that has the wills united. If they did, they would have no reason to be here. Uniting the wills, to me actually means uncovering and accepting that Oneness...learning in whatever ways are necessary to not believe there is a separation of the two wills.
unless we are acting from love, acceptance and knowing, or from a healthy self protection stance, and not from "knee-jerk", reactions, anger, pain, fear, need to control or manipulate others, etc... we are not truly acting with a free will. If our parents and other adults we learned from, did not example healthy self discipline, we are responsible to learn it for ourselves, regardless of how "unfair" if seems that we have to "clean up after" those that misguided us !
I believe that we have free will, absolutely! I believe the that we have been granted that freedom indelibly by the "powers that be".
However, can that free will be considered with the social restrictions of morals and ethics? Those are learned traits either by merely being a member of society or being influenced by religion, education, etc.
The choices we make are based on free will. If those choices are within the confines of social definitions, how FREE are they?
It's a very interesting discussion, fo sho!
Sometimes I think about the question of free will and think. No, we don't really have free will. I mean how free is your will if your responses and actions and thoughts are being shaped by other people?
ie: I am told that adultry is a sin...well I wonder, why the heck is it a sin?
Every response to the question has been "willed" in to my mind, if you will,(no pun intended) so I am making choices based on what other people have told me... that it is wrong, but why? So, I could freely will myself to do it anyways because I don't agree, but I will more then likely feel bad later, or live with the guilt, so why guilt from something I can't realy understand?
Or, something drops, I pick it up. I freely willed myself to pick it up, but the force of gravity made it fall.
Maybe you get what I am saying.
I like what Ramana Maharishi says about free will and destiny using an example of a cow with a rope around his neck.
The cow may believe he has free will to move around but the reality is that his movements are restricted by the lenght of the rope.
So we give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's,is this free will,or what is predetermined?
My mind thinks that what is in the mind is mine,but when it comes out of my mouth it belongs to all who hear it.Is this free will?
The point is like the 5th century Poet Iqbal says-your will must merge with the cosmic will.Then you will be happy.
now that is a beautiful quote.
I like to set my mind in the stars, there are no judgments there, and to be that free is perfection.
But I am happy. Most of the time now I exist in a state of joy and compassion. Things that used to upset me no longer do. And when those times come when I do react in a negative way to the world around me I am able to acknowledge my choice to be in that state and can quickly let go of the pain I chose to bring upon myself.
And it is not the outer universe that causes my joy, it comes from within, from choices made by my Buddha nature.
If you choose to let go of the ego, joy and compassion naturally follow. It is a choice.
It is a choice to feel anger, sadness, loss, jealousy, frustration etc....
It does not matter what happens to you in life but how you react to those happenings that determines your level of joy or sadness.
It boils down to soul satisfaction.Since you are using your Buddha nature to make descisions your actions will be correct and in tune with the cosmos and you will inevitably be happy.
The cosmic will is your inner or Buddha will.
Doesn't Karma teach,kind of like,an eye for an eye?I like to see with my eyes,even if it isn't really what is there.Like my reflection in the Mirror.I know it is not real,but I comb my hair anyway.
No, karma is definitely not 'an eye for an eye'. Karma can be positive, negative or neutral and is generated automatically by the choices sentient beings make. It places no judgment because it is not an entity or anything like that.
For an explanation of Karma as it relates to Buddhist philosophy check out this article:
'an eye for an eye?I like to see with my eyes,' - now that is a great one.
Merlyn chose the Mirror to hide Excalibor in an old poem or story,another universe,so When we look into the mirror and change our appearance,like combingour hair, are we imposing our free will on them?
Karma which brings about a fruit (Pali, phala) or result (vipāka), either within the present life, or in the context of a future rebirth. Karma is the engine which drives the wheel of the cycle of uncontrolled rebirth (saṃsāra) for each being.
So this is saying that free will is preditermined?
Everything has been destined since the beginning of time,the beginning of this universe.us being on this forum and conversing with each other has been destined.
Interdependent origination and Karma are difficult subjects to explain. Free will is not predetermined in Buddhist philosophy. In other religious doctrines it is.
Buddhists look at time in a very different way to a lot of other people. This life is just a continuation of many, many rebirths. In each of these rebirths we make choices. Now as the law of physics explains to us "each action has an equal and opposite reaction". Everything we do produces a result.
Sometimes these results are immediate and sometimes these results have to mature before we see them.
To make a blunt point, if I am allergic to peanuts and I decide to eat them I will have an immediate result to my actions.
However if I choose to have a baby it takes time to conceive and time to gestate before the result of my intention becomes real.
This is the same with karma. Sometimes our actions will produce fruit in this lifetime and sometimes it needs several lifetimes to gestate before we see a result. Sometimes choices we make in between alter that karma or neutralize the effects and it never bears fruit. Sometimes other sentient beings karma becomes intertwined with ours and we see the fruit of their choices and actions.
So even if in this lifetime we do not understand why something may be happening to us, it is not because of predetermination but because of a choice or series of choices we made in our previous rebirth or many eons ago.
To make it even more complicated. The karma we produced eons ago can be altered by choices we make in this lifetime.
Say we did something truly horrible in a previous existence and continued to make unwise choices, the negative karma that bears fruit will be extreme and horrible.
However, say after we committed the terrible act we felt guilt and remorse and began making only wise choices and created much positive karma then the impact of our negative karma will be lessened. It will not go away completely but it won't have the same extreme consequence. The negative becomes filtered by the positive.
So free will and the choice we make are extremely important. And it is not what bad things happen to you in life that matters but how you choose to deal with it that determines your future karma.
So the word/will does not come back till it has done all that it was suppose to do?
exactly. and it will all start again. hopefully next time round, we will have finally let go of our pride or egos so we will finally live in peace, or hey, maybe that is the next step in the cosmic patters set out in the Universe, will it ever end?
I will say, nothing never ends. All is all is all it is, now forget it, it's nothing. another mind booger. LOL!
We humans are tiny insects on this planet.This planet is tiny in our solar system.The Solar system is tiny in this cosmos.Look at the revolution and rotation of our planet,so precise.For thousands and thousands of years everything has been planned to a minute detail possible only by a superentity called God.
Well,have a nice day.Really good questions and answers,lots to ponder for the day.
The machine is freedom to not have to operate the mechanics.
The story, of Adam and Eve (my take)
God gave Adam and Eve everthing they needed, God said, don't eat this tree, Eve said Why?
God was like, what...did you... well...I will show you why.
Now we get to live with the knowledge of suffering, fear, disaster etc, until all that is and ever can be known, becomes known, and just like that, we forget it and return to the Garden.
So everything that happens happens because Eve (that bit*h lol) decided to ask why and God said, this is why. So next, just don't ask. ahahahahahahah
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