Do you think our life here on earth is predetermined by us before we are even born?
Some think we plot out a chart before we arrive here giving ourselves 6 exit points during our lifetime. If we do not take any of the exit points (near death experiences) when we get to the last one, our time on earth will be done. If we did well here, learned a lesson, etc., we can choose to come back in another life or not. If we didn't do well we are automatically sent back until we get it right.
Interesting question. I tend to think that the beginning of our lives are - but because there are so many choices and options that are constantly being created, that the final journey is up to us.
This sounds very much like what Sylvia Browne writes about in her many books. She is a well known medium and author. She has started her own church. Although I haven't listened to her speak or read one of her books lately. I use to often. What she says makes perfect sense to me. We are here to learn and it has already been planned for us.
The key phrase here is "by us". Yes, I believe in predetermination, a soul with a history, and a being with already established characteristics and tendencies.
With varying degrees of "karmic burdens", obligations, lessons to be learned, challenges to be met -- the time, the moment and the ethnicity and group of similarly situated souls come down together.
All of this is a "divine determination". We embrace it. We are ready for it. And, before we fall into flesh, we are assured that this will all be good for us ultimately.
But life is a challenge and the toughest things we face are often not appealing to the reincarnating soul. i.e. "You're going to be a youngest. Your father will leave the family. Your mother will die early." However, as we all know, it is how we react to all of the myriad situations in our lives that turn us into a "new soul" in this life.
I think we come here agreeing on a soul level to have certain experiences perhaps, but free will trumps all. We always have choices to make and every minute provides new opportunities to make different choices. We can't control everything that happens around us, but we are always in full command of what we choose to do, believe, think, feel etc. When we recognize we have that power, life tends to become richer and more fulfilling.
I must confess that I have never heard of this idea. It seems akin to reincarnation, yet with a touch of personal choice thrown into the mix. Do you know where this theory originated? As a Christian, I believe in a sovereign God who foreordains or predetermines all things from eternity past. I do not believe in the sovereignty of man.
See Diana Lee's answer and my reply. Thanks for your input, I believe everyone has different theories and am just looking for more in my own life.
I've heard of this through some fundamentalist Christians and the Mormons. Mormons believe we asked to be born.
This is an answer to the idea that we owe god nothing since we did not ask to be born. Therefore his punishments are unjust.
No. That is a belief. Beliefs explain the inexplicable, such as why each of us were given life on this earth, or where we were before we were born. Beliefs are our interface with reality. They are our coping tools. They are our lamps in the dark. It is pleasant to feel that one has the answers, or at least some of the answers.
never heard of this one before either
'learned a lesson' - get it right'??? by what rules? sounds pretty illogical -- if I get to set my conditions, why would i mess up? who's doing the judging here?
of course it ignores the millions of people who have died in wars, from disease, etc who certainly wouldnt choose that way out.
and where are we when we're doing this 'choosing to come back'? where do we find the instruction manual before we're born that defines the rules of the game?
See Diana Lee's answer and my reply. You are touching on exactly what my problem is. If I get to decide my destiny, why would I put myself through some of the hell I have, but if a god decides for us, why does he get to decide?
That is the whole point the rules are written by someone else and we are the prisoners that must abide by them.
We are an expression of God, to live and experience or share in this awesome creation.
I don't think we are toy soldiers with determined out comes. Predestined to love and succeed maybe, but not predestined to be miserable.
The Soul is like a caterpillar that grows and nurtures the Spirit. Death is the transformation. Our Spirit becomes like the solar wind that permeates the universe. We had no Spirit before we were conceived.
Biologically our life on earth is predetermined by our progeny's (parents/grandparents down the line) contribution to our chromosomal/genetic make-up.
What you make of your life after that is cocooned by family interconnections/interventions, as well as environmental disposition.
We obviously exercise free will... when faced with choices, and the ultimate direction of our lives depends upon the interactions of all of the above.
Interesting thoughts. I agree that we all have a reason for being here... but who can really say whether or not it's predetermined? It very well might be for some people, but generally I believe we all have to forge our own way through. Come up with our own destiny.
I believe in reincarnation. We all have multiple goals. Why not multiple lives to see the big ones through?
That would be the scenario I would like to believe however I don't think we are given these choices. I suspect we reincarnate because we are trapped on this planet, this is what folks are talking about when they say we live on a 'prison planet'.
Are souls reincarnate over and over again because they are not allowed to leave, this is done on purpose, to keep us here. I think our souls are the outlaws, poets, artists, free thinkers, rebels, trouble makers of the galaxy and that we were sent here on purpose.
The bodies we inhabit are a combination of the natural inhabitants of this planet and alien DNA designed specifically for this planet. This planet is a dumping ground of experiments, all the wide variety of animals, birds, fish, insects, plants were designed as experiments.
When we die our memories get erased so that we cannot accumulate knowledge as other souls on other planets are allowed to do. If we were allowed to remember it would be a whole new ball game but because we get wiped and diped we must go back and learn all over again.
We are conditioned to believe lies from childhood that is why lying is so accepted, it is the folks that refuse to believe that are labelled criminals and usually end up addicts and worse, because they choose not to accept the lies. But it goes so far deeper than that, the rabbit hole is deep and the Matrix movie was a lot closer to the truth than must people realize!
I've rambled enough, good question it will be interesting to see how the sheep respond . . .
"Predetermination of life" is a concept with religious tones akin to reincarnation. I perceive this concept from psychological point of view. we as human beings have predispositions to certain processes of life guided by our genetic make up.Jung called these predispositions as "archetypes "residing in the collective unconscious of mankind. what archetype is dominant in our personality? we are determined and guided by it.
No, I do not believe that and if it were true that we do better each time then why would the world and people in it keep waxing worse? Look at the wars now everywhere and everything going crazy. This reminds me of a scripture where if the Lord did not come soon no flesh would be saved.
I would say it is time to be ready for that visit. Salvation is so simple, why do so many want to complicate it? Accept that Jesus came, died for our transgressions and rose again. Believe that, invite Him in and live forever. John 3:16.
According to Hindu myth, there is concecpt that way. Our death and birth are interrelated according to our fate and some strongly belief that there is rebirth too.
No, because I am one who thinks we, as individuals, are not a reality until egg meets sperm and, therefore, are not capable planning anything prior to that. Regardless of how esoteric or devine you make the preceeding environment; we simply didn't exist in a form to accomplish what you suggest. Once born however, life unfolds as we let it unfold based on the combination of genes from our parents and their interaction with the environment.
That isn't to say I don't believe our personal essence doesn't already exist, I think it does ... did from the moment of the Big Bang. It was just waiting for that particular sperm and that particular egg to meet up, fertilize, and end up growing into whoever we uniquely become.
I think we are sent here for a purpose and, we will stay until we have fulfilled our purpose. Not predetermined by us, but by our maker, our God!
I certainly hope not. If that is the case, I would like to slap the crap out of whomever made that decision. Not only for myself, but for other people who greatly suffer through their lives, from being born blind, handicapped, sick, or poor.
As for exit points. I would say, ok, If you are going to send me back, can you at least make me a little taller this time? Maybe make it so that I don't go bald until I'm at least 50. Maybe have me born into a family that has a but load of money? So, I can at least enjoy myself while I'm back?
If you want me to get it right. The least you can do is throw me a bone.
Hello angel, You know it is not a question only, it can be an encyclopedia of life and soul in itself. We cant give the exact answer of this question because we don't have any control on our death and even we don't know what happens after when we die. We can just imagine about it. If we are religious and don't believe in science then we will say yes to your question but if we believe in facts based on science then we will say no. There are so many proverbs regarding this subject but no one is sure what exactly happens.
If we determine our life before our birth then why do we choose so many sorrows along with happiness and if it is not so that means soul and rebirth like words are meaningless.
Just one observation: Many religious people are dedicated scientists, so please do not say that they do not "believe in science." The world would not have "modern science" if it were not for famous Christians who engaged in scientific study.
I think choosing a "sorrow" could be for someone else's benefit, not necessarily our own. I know I have been moved to tears and action by seeing someone else's suffering.
Yes, I do and what a wonderful conversation to be having. I've only shared this with a handful of people! Very interesting!
In essence this is a free will verses detirminism question... Due to the fact that this universe seems to be governed by physical laws with causal relationships between events then I would say that it is certainly possible that everything is detirmined. That prior to life, our souls conciously 'choose' what causal path they enter living existence upon is doubtful. That would suggest humans have a say in what happens in the outcome of universal events on some deep level which is frankly, arrogance in the extreme.
God predetermined everything that will happen in His universe; however, I do not think we have a "say." God gave freedom to our first parents, and they chose to disobey. From that point on, we have freedom only in one direction until we are set free
glynch1 there is a problem with what you propose. If God predetermined everything then it follows that we were meant to disobey which in turn renders the term disobedience pointless.
Two forms of divine willing exist--that which represents God's intention and is therefore predetermined for man and cannot be evaded, and that which is his permissive will and is not imposed upon man's activities.
Why should God predetermine anything for any sentient being, let alone humans on this lonely little planet? Wouldn't God be bored to death knowing what was going to happen? I would think God would have more fun experiencing his creation through us.
Your thoughts about God are too small. What God intends, He decrees; what God permits, He has foreseen. And thus by a combination of foreordination and foreknowledge, his will remains sovereign.
Au contrair, I am trying to expand the idea of God beyond the box monotheists put God into in order to have God act like they do. Isn't the concept of God a human creation, not one of God? Only God knows what God is, humans don't have a clue.
My Esoteric I like that you are thinking "outside the box" (pun intended I have always struggled with what exactly is God. Where did it come from and how did it become such a focal point in our lives. I think you're right. We don't have a clue.
Thanks Angel, the question has consumed me for nigh on 55 years. I just started hubbing some of my thoughts on it today.
You base your comment on the assumption of the existence of God - which I'm sure you'll at least agree is not beyond reasonable doubt since so many people doubt it expressly through the application of their reasoning.
Yes I do believe that life here on earth has been predetermined for us. I can it God the author whom penned us and bought us into being. I believe that God knew millions of years before we were born that we would be born. And that god commanded himself where what we would look like, whom our parents would be and how long we will live. In summary I believe we were predetermined in our every detail.
Sounds like John Calvin and Determinism. If you were chosen for eternal life and the glory of heaven, it will be indicated by your time on earth. You will present with a high quality of life. Ergo, people strove to emulate this idea; worked hard and led pious lives. It is a great theory which brought us Puritans and the great Protestant work ethic. I think the concept was instrumental in making America successful. I like reading about this stuff, but personally, I don't embrace religions, spirituality, or any ideas of gods, spirits, afterlife, ghosts, or whatever.
Predetermination and Free Will exist simultaneously
1) Quantum Causality exists
2) a quantum causal element is uniform
3) everything is connected (as indicated by gravity and electromagnetism)
4) alternate dimensional space(s) exist(s)
1) for alternate dimensional space(s) not to interfere with one another the Universe would be finite
2) gravity and electromagnetism would be one set of constraints forming our dimensional space
3) Relativity would support multiple dimensional spaces limited by the properties of systems of quantum causality
4) as a finite system of quantum causality the system can be described as a continuum because it has no outside influences
Therefore, everything eventually repeats in a causal continuum. Every variation that is possible, will have happened before. The Big Bang being just another cyclic event that does not necessarily spawn the same causal relationships; but eventually in numbers greater than we have ever estimated, only then does our present cycle repeat with the exactness of one of our previous cycles.
Predetermination exists, but in which cycle are we repeating, and all those other causal cycles that are different than our own in small part represent every alternate opportunity for making a different outcome. In most cycles humans do not exist; but eventually we do.
I do not discount the potential of a cognitive moderator that continuously realigns causal moderators to prevent long term drifting of physical constants in an evolving environment. We are cognitive, a cognitive function(s) is(are) therefore testable. When we build tools to manipulate spacetime we may find cognitive responses to our efforts.
Evolving causality is related to time, while Recursive causality is related to space; this dimension limited by the simple connectedness between all causal connectedness.
Time is a Relativity concept and we are somewhere in a causal continuum in which simultaneously there is predetermination, and freedom of choice. Because we have made every alternate choice previously to be able to get back to the present causal cycle.
Thoughts in regard to "Building Universes"
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