Quran has a divine arrangement of its chapters/suras.

1. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   It has been expressed in one of the threads here that Quran has been arranged in order of length.
   It is a wrong notion and it is an oversimplification.
   
   If one has a Quran; one may please verify it very easily. The first sura of Quran has only 7 verses and the second has 287 verses and the next ones in order have 201,177,121,166,207,129,110,124,112,44,53,100,129,112,111 verses.
   
   I have given the length of the suras from the beginning of the Quran; there are in total 114 suras in Quran and anyone interested could complete the chart.
   
   The entire Quran, as we have it, is arranged as the Creator-God Allah YHWH commanded Muhammad to do it.
   
   There is no need of any chronological order; as the source of that order is Hadith which was collected after 200/250 years of Muhammad's demise and is only acceptable if it is not against Quran, the first and the foremost source of Muslims whatever the denomination. Quran in itself is complete and needs no Hadith.
   
   Quran existed in the times of Muhammad both in verbal form committed to memory by Muhammad and a large number of his companion and also in writing as per the divine arrangement.
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   1. 61

      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Gimme a break, paas.
      
      The chronology of the Qu'ran matters.
      
      And its importance is verified by the way you run to post a topic on how that opinion is wrong.
      
      God forbid people understand the arrangement and history of the Suras. That could cause alot of problems for Islam and it religion of peace BS.
      
      You must take into consideration the, "Law Of Abrogation", or, "Naskh" = Obliteration, or "to obliterate" to fully understand the Qu'ran.
      
      That entails knowing the chronological history of the Qu'ran itself. To know which Surah over-rides, or obliterates another, (others), of the former Surahs.
      
      Also, whether or not that instance of abrogation over-rides a specific, or general verse, or former command or commands.
      
      Here is the Chronological order as set by Noeldeke through diligent research into the original sources of Islam.
      
      Chronologically, Noeldeke divides the Qu'ran into the first period in Mecca,... 96, 74, 111, 106, 108, 104, 107, 102,105, 92, 90, 94, 93, 97, 86, 91, 80, 68, 87, 95 103, 85, 73, 101, 99, 82, 81, 53, 84, 100, 79, 77, 78, 88, 89, 75, 83, 69, 51, 52,56,70, 55, 112, 109, 113, 114, 1.
      
      The Middle Period In Mecca,... 54, 37, 71, 76, 44, 50, 20, 26, 15, 19, 8, 36, 43, 72, 67, 23, 21, 25, 17, 27, 18.
      
      The Late Period in Mecca,... 32, 41, 45, 16, 30, 11, 14, 12, 40, 28, 39, 29, 31, 42, 10, 34, 35, 7, 46, 6, 13.
      
      And in Al'Madina2, 98, 64, 62, 8, 47, 3, 61, 57, 4, 65, 59, 33, 63, 24, 58, 22, 48, 68, 60, 110, 49, 9, 5.
      
      This information is by Noeldke, and there is readily available source material within his work and the work of, William St.Clair Tisdall, in his work, "The Original Sources of the Qu'ran", London 1905.
      
      There are many more sources, both inside and outside of Islam. Which support the reality that the chronology of the Qu'ran, is in no way accurate in its current format.
      
      To state the chronology of the Qu'ran is of no concern, is BS.
      
      Abbrogation demands the knowledge of the chronlogical order. You know that as well as anyone who puts a lil thought into it, paas. If you have two contradictory verses there is but one way to know which is valid and which is not.
      
      Even Islamic scholars conceded abbrogation occurs inthe Qu'ran and that you need to understand the history of a sura to apply it correctly. It is no rocket science... just a plain simple fact.
      
      Even Allah attests to the existence of abbrogation in the text of Qu'ran. He devotes an entire verse to it and was forced to confront it because of mohhammuds contradictory recitations of his supposed holy revealations.
      
      Not to mention all the self serving verses he would miraculously recieve to allow himself some previously frowned upon or unlawful activity.
      
      I don't even know why I bother... everyone on here knows your just an Islamic apologist and propagandist.

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2. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   I give here an outline on the subject:
   
   ARRANGEMENT  OF  CHAPTERS  AND VERSES
   
   It  is sometimes asserted that the arrangement of  the Chapters
   of  the  Quran  is  the  work  of  'Uthman.  This  is  not correct.
   It is well known that the Holy Prophet used to recite the whole
   of  the Quran  in  Ramadan  and  some  of  his  Companions  also
   did  so.  It  is  also mentioned in  the  traditions  that the Holy
   Prophet  used  to  recite  the  whole  of  the Quran  to  the  angel
   Gabriel  during  the month  of  Ramadan  (Bukhari).  A  non-
   Muslim may not  be prepared  to accept  this last statement, but
   it  is  beyond  doubt  that  the  Holy  Prophet  used  to  recite  the
   Quran  and he  must  have  done  it  in accordance  with some
   arrangement.
   After  the  Holy Prophet's  death  'Ali  did  not  call on  Abu
   Bakr  (who  had  been  elected  Caliph)  for  some time.  Abu
   Bakr  sent  for  him and  asked  him whether he was  displeased
   with  his  election as Caliph. 'Ali replied  that  it  was  not  so,
   but that he had been busy in copying out the Quran in the order
   in which it had been  revealed, as he had  resolved at the time of
   the  death  of  the  Prophet  that  he  would  undertake  this duty.
   This also shows that in the time of  the Holy Prophet the Quran
   used  to be  recited  in a certain  order and that  that  order was
   different  from  the order  in which  it had been  revealed.  That
   is why  'Ali decided  that he should  copy  it out  in  the  order  in
   which  it had been revealed so  that  for purposes of  history  that
   arrangement should  also  be  preserved.  There  are  traditions which relate  that  whenever  a  verse  or group  of  verses was
   revealed  to  the  Holy  Prophet,  he  would  send for  one  of  the
   recorders and direct him to record the verse or verses indicating
   at  the same time  to which  Chapter and where  they  belonged.
   This shows  that at the time of  receiving a  revelation  the Holy
   Prophet was also  informed where  the  revealed verse or verses
   belonged.
   The strongest  evidence, however, in support of  the arrange-
   ment  adopted  in the compilation of  the Quran is  the evidence
   of  the  subject-matter  itself.  A  study  of  the Quran  reveals
   that the  subject-matter  of  each  Chapter  is connected with  the
   subject-matter  of  the  preceding  and  the  following  Chapters.
   If the  current  arrangement  was  adopted  by  'Uthman  merely
   with  reference  to the  length of  each Chapter, how is it that the
   arrangement  reveals a continuity of  topics and subject-matter  ?
   For instance,  the Sura  al-Fatiha  was  revealed  in Mecca and  is
   the opening Chapter of  the Quran.  The Sura  al-Baqara was
   revealed  at  Medina  and  follows  immediately after  the  Sura
   al-Fatiha,  leaving out  several Chapters that  had  been revealed
   during  the  interval.  Western  writers  allege  that the  Sura
   al-Baqara  has  been placed first as  it  is  the  longest  Chapter  of
   the Quran.  To begin with, they  forget  that the  first Chapter
   i
   in the Quran is not  the Sura al-Baqara but the Sura  al-Fatiha,
   which is a  very  short  Sura  comprising  only  seven verses.
   Further,  when  we  read  the  Sura  al-Fatiha  we  find  that  it
   concludes with  the prayer : "Guide us in  the  right  path",  and
   the  Sura  al-Baqara, which  is  the  immediately succeeding
   Chapter, opens with the verse :  "This is a perfect Book  ;  there
   is  no  doubt in  it  ;  it  is a guidance for  the  righteous."  If  the
   Sura  al-Baqara was selected  to follow  after  the Sura  al-Fatiha
   merely  by  reason  of  the  fact  that  it  is  the  longest  Chapter of
   the Quran,  how  is it  that  its  very  opening  verse  furnishes  an
   answer  to  the  concluding  verse  of  the  immediately preceding
   Chapter, the  Sura  al-Fatiha  ?  The Sura  al-Fatiha  concludes
   with a prayer for guidance and the Sura al-Baqara opens with a
   verse which points to the guidance which had  been prayed  for
   at  the end of  the previous Chapter.  This is  not a mere  coin-
   i
   cidence  ;  for, this continuity  of  topics and subject-matter is  to
   be found  throughout  the Quran  in spite of  the  fact  that  some- 370  INTRODUCTION  TO  THE  STUDY  OF  THE  HOLY  QURAN
   times a  Chapter  revealed  at  Mecca follows  one  revealed  at
   Medina  and  vice  versa.  This proves  that  the arrangement  of
   the Chapters and  the verses  of  the Quran was  adopted  under
   divine direction.
   The question  then  arises  why  the  arrangement adopted in
   the compilation  of  the Quran was different  from the order  in
   which  its verses were revealed.  The answer  is  that when  the
   Quran  was  being  revealed,  the  teachings  and  doctrines  con-
   tained in it were entirely novel and unfamiliar to Arabs.  Their
   minds  had  to  be familiarized  and  impregnated with the back-
   ground of  Islamic doctrines and teachings so as to prepare them
   for the reception of  the details of  those teachings and doctrines.
   'The  earlier  revelations were, therefore, cast in the form of  brief
   Chapters  containing  fundamental  teachings  like  the  Unity  of
   God, kindness and consideration  towards the  poor,  the neces-
   sity for and the benefits to be derived  from the worship of God
   and His remembrance, and also prophecies indicating what kind
   of  opposition  the  Holy  Prophet  would have  to  encounter,
   how  Muslims  would  be treated,  how  Islam  would progress,
   and  what  the  end  of  its  enemies  and opponents  would  be.
   As the number of Muslims increased and Islam began to spread,
   the details of  the  Islamic Law and teachings also  began  to be
   revealed.  The order  in which  the  Quran  was revealed  was,
   therefore, best  suited to the needs of  the times in which  it was
   revealed,  but  once  the  revelation  was  complete and hundreds
   of  thousands  of  people  had accepted  it and  even  the  non-
   Muslims  had  become aware  of  its  background,  it  became
   necessary  to  present  its  teachings and doctrines  to Muslims
   and non-Muslims from a fresh  angle.  To meet  this need  the
   Holy Prophet went on giving directions under divine guidance
   regarding  the  permanent  arrangement  of  the  Quran for  use
   in  the  future.  It  is  indeed an  outstanding  miracle  of  the
   Quran that it was revealed  in  the order which was best  suited
   for  the  needs  of  the  period  during which  it was revealed  and
   was  arranged  for permanent  use  in  the order which was  best
   suited  for the  needs of  Muslims in  subsequent  times.  For a
   book to be revealed in fragments over a period of  twenty-three
   years in an order best suited to the requirements of  that period
   and  simultaneously  to  be cast  into a shape  best  suited for  the requirements  of  future ages was  an  achievement  which  could
   have  been accomplished only  under  divine  direction.
   The  connection subsisting  between  the  subject-matter  of
   one Chapter  and  that  of  a  succeeding  Chapter  has been
   explained  in the  preliminary note set  out  in  the  beginning  of
   each  Chapter.
   
   Introduction to the Study of The Holy Quran (pdf)
   http://www.alislam.org/books/
   
   Those interested should read it carefully.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
   1. 61

      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is also mentioned throughout the histories and traditions that Mohammud forgot many of the suras he spoke, as they were not commited to any paper record.
      
      Traditional Islamic views of dating
      
      Muslim scholars usually accepted the fact that the quran QurŸån had originally been revealed for the most part in short passages. They tended to assume that most of the passages in a sura had been revealed about the same time. On this basis they came to classify the suras as 'Meccan' or 'Medinan', and this description was included in the heading of each sura in the later copies. They were also aware, however, of instances where a few verses had to be classified differently from the rest of the sura. This has now come to be noted in the heading. Thus in the official Egyptian edition the heading of sura 73 reads: 'The sura of Al-muzzammil, Meccan except verses 10, 11 and 20, which are Medinan; its verses are 20; it was revealed after Al-qalam.' The last statement is part of the attempt to arrange all the suras according to the order in which the main part of each was revealed.
      
      The chief basis for the dating of passages and verses in the eyes of Muslim scholars consists of Traditions about muhammad Muøammad and statements by later students of the quran QurŸån. The older Muslim scholars, though presumably they sometimes paid attention to internal evidence, seldom used it explicitly in their arguments. The Traditions in question here are usually to the effect that such and such a passage was revealed in connection with such and such an event. Thus sura 80.1-10 is said to have been revealed when a blind man called abd allah ÿAbd-Allåh umm maktum ibn-Umm-Maktõm came up to him as he was talking to some leading men of Quraysh and hoping to win them over. Stories of this type are said to deal with 'the occasions of revelation' (asbab asbåb nuzul an-nuzõl). There is a well-known book on this subject by wahidi al-Wåøidæ (d. 1075). Unfortunately this traditional material suffers from several defects. For one thing it is incomplete, and specifies the 'occasion' for only a relatively small part of the quran QurŸån. Again, many of the 'occasions' are incidents, unimportant in themselves, whose precise date is unknown. Such is the anecdote just mentioned about the blind man.
      
      Finally, there are inconsistencies.
      
      Thus it is usually said that the first passage to be revealed was the beginning of sura 96 (Al-qalam); but there is another story according to which the first revelation was the beginning of sura 74. There are also stories trying to harmonize the two accounts, e.g. by saying that 74 was the first after a gap. In fact neither of these may be the first extant revelation, and the stories may be only the guesses of later Muslim scholars, since there are grounds for selecting each as first. Sura 96 begins with 'recite', and this is appropriate for a book which is called 'the recitation' or quran QurŸån; and sura 74 after addressing muhammad Muøammad has the words 'rise and warn'-an appropriate beginning to the work of a messenger or warner.
      
      Despite these deficiencies the traditional dating of passages by Muslim scholars is by no means valueless, and indeed forms the basis of all future work. In so far as it is consistent it gives a rough idea of the chronology of the quran QurŸån; and any modern attempt to find a basis for dating must by and large be in agreement with the traditional views, even if in one or two points it contradicts them.
      
      http://www.truthnet.org/islam/Watt/Chapter7.html
      
      So which was first Pass Sura 96 or 74 or sura one as stands today?
      
      And your suppossed unity of chapters is hogwash Pass... The Qu'ran at points, is almost schizophrenic.
      
      "The chief basis for the dating of passages and verses in the eyes of Muslim scholars consists of Traditions about muhammad Muøammad and statements by later students of the quran QurŸån."
      
      That is just the facts as Islamic Scholars see them.
      
      Also... Islamic scholars even agree that not all the verses in a sura were revealed at the same time. They know also that some of suras had been changed depending on what Mohhamud wanted to accomplish at that time. ie; verses forgetten, changed abbrogated... usually for self serving puposes on the part of mohhamud.
      
      Heretical sects, such as yours, can spout all the junk they want trying to obfuscate the understanding on the Qu'ran and allah's final orders to the Ummah.
      
      Tell me Paas... in your opinion which of the Suras was spoken last?
      
      I will give you a hint Paas...  9, 5. 2.
      
      including this...
      
      009.005
      
      YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
      
      PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
      
      SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
      
      The infamous verse of the sword.
      
      http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc … 9.qmt.html

      replyreport
3. 61

   TMMasonposted 14 years ago

   And lets take a look at the West's idea of chronology...
   
   European theories of dating
   
   European attempts to work out the chronological order of the suras have usually taken internal evidence into account as well, that is, apparent references to known public events, especially during the Medinan period of muhammad Muøammad's career. Attention has also been paid to considerations of style, vocabulary and the like. In short, the quran QurŸån has been subjected to severe scrutiny according to the methods of modern literary and historical criticism.
   
   Several nineteenth-century scholars made useful contributions to the study of quranic QurŸånic chronology; but the most important book by far was Theodor Nöldeke's Geschichte des quran qorans Qoråns, first published in 1860. 1 A second edition, revised and enlarged by Friedrich Schwally and others, appeared in three volumes in 1909, 1919 and 1938, and was reprinted by a photocopying process in 1961. In respect of chronology Nöldeke assumed a progressive change of style from exalted poetical passages in the early years to long prosaic deliverances later. He followed the Islamic tradition in recognizing a division into suras mainly revealed at Mecca and those mainly revealed at Medina, but further divided the Meccan suras into three periods.
   
   The suras of the First Meccan Period are mostly short. The verses also are short, and the language rhythmic and full of imagery. Groups of oaths often occur at the beginning of passages. The suras of this period, in the order assigned to them by Nöldeke are: 96, 74, 111, 106, 108, 104, 107, 102, 105, 92, 90, 94, 93, 97, 86, 91, 80, 68, 87, 95, 103, 85, 73, 101, 99, 82, 81, 53, 84, 100, 79, 77, 78, 88, 89, 75, 83, 69, 51, 52, 56, 70, 55, 112, 109, 113, 114, 1.
   
   In the Second Meccan Period there is a transition from the sublime enthusiasm of the first period to the greater calmness of the third. The fundamental teaching is supported and explained by numerous illustrations from nature and history. There are also discussions of some doctrinal points. In particular emphasis is placed on the signs of God's power both in nature and in the events which befell former prophets. The latter are described in a way which brings out their relevance to what was happening to muhammad Muøammad and his followers. Stylistically, the period is distinguished by new modes of speech. Oaths are seldom used. The suras grow longer and frequently have formal introductions, such as: 'This is the revelation of God...'. Passages are often preceded by qul, 'say', as a command to muhammad Muøammad. God is frequently referred to as ar rahman ar-Raømån, 'the Merciful'. The suras of the period are: 54, 37, 71, 76, 44, 50, 20, 26, 15, 19, 38, 36, 43, 72, 67, 23, 21, 25, 17, 27, 18.
   
   In the Third Meccan Period the use of ar rahman ar-Raømån as a proper name ceases, but other characteristics of the second period are intensified. The prophetic stories are frequently repeated with slight variations of emphasis. The suras of this period are: 32, 41, 45, 16, 30, 11, 14, 12, 40, 28, 39, 29, 31, 42, 10, 34, 35, 7, 46, 6, 13.
   
   The sums of the Medinan Period show not so much a change of style as a change of subject. Since the Prophet is now recognized as such by a whole community, the revelations contain laws and regulations for the community. Often the people are directly addressed. Some contemporary events are mentioned and their significance made clear. The suras of the period are: 2, 98, 64, 62, 8, 47, 3, 61, 57, 4, 65, 59, 33, 63, 24, 58, 22, 48, 66, 60, 110, 49, 9, 5. 2
   
   As a first approximation to the historical order of the quran QurŸån Nöldeke's arrangement is useful. The criterion of style plays too large a part in it, however. The style of the quran QurŸån undoubtedly changes through the years, but it should not be assumed that the change was a steady progression in one direction, for example, towards longer verses. It may well be that the style of different passages of about the same date varied according to their purposes, as indeed is suggested in the quran QurŸån (e.g. 47.20/2; cf. 62.2). It is doubtful, too, whether the use of ar rahman ar-Raømån as a proper name can be restricted to a few years. It may have been introduced in the Second Meccan Period, but there is no record of it having been explicitly dropped. It continued to be used in the bismillah bismillåh, and the Meccans who objected to this as a heading for the protocol of the treaty of hudaybiya al-Øudaybiya seem to have regarded ar rahman ar-Raømån rahim ar-Raøæm as proper names.
   
   http://www.truthnet.org/islam/Watt/Chapter7.html
   
   No matte how you lok at it Paas... chronology counts immensely in understanding the suras, and the intent behind thier revalations.

   replyreport
4. 61

   TMMasonposted 14 years ago

   The first bits of the Qu'ran were written upon palm leaves and whatever else they could find by Momo's secretaries, Zeid and Abdullah.
   
   Who, after distributing some copies among the faithful... placed the texts into a box in no particulair order. As order was unimportant to them at that time, the prophet being among them, he could decide which veses were applicable to what.
   
   It was a simnple thing back then.
   
   After the death of momo, Abu Bakr and Zeid found the scripts laying in a box in his quarters in no order... I stress once again, no order.
   
   And I have already stated that the Qu'ran itself admits momo forgot some of the verses... but what the hey he, is the prophet, so he can do what he wants eh.
   
   After Zeid made the collection revised and whole, Abu Bakr went about revising and setting them in some semblance of order. And the whole collection thus ordered was given into the care of Hafsa, one of momo's widows.
   
   In 650 AD while Uthman, Othman, was Khalif, a dis-agreement erupted about the "true" text of the Qu'ran and Uthman ordered Zeid to make a fresh revision of the text themselves with the help of three other "devines".
   
   He undertook this mission, and being a faithful follower of momo he took great care to be dilligent and correct in his works.
   
   Then they, Zeid and his devines, under the orders of Uthman, called in all copies of the Qu'ran and destroyed them. From that time on all Qu'rans were based on the work of Zeid.
   
   His exactness in the text and revisions of the Qu'ran are seen to be valid, because even the antagonists of Uthman, Ali and his cohorts, accepted this version as a true reflection of the prophets words.
   
   The few places in the Qu'ran where there is conflict between Qu'rans in use, are minor points of useage of vowels and diacritical points which were later literary inventions and not existant when Zeid accomplished his work.
   
   It is obvious that chronology played lil part in Zeid's arrangement as there are not only startling breaks and gaps, but later passages not infrquently precede earlier ones.
   
   Some would call it schizophrenic...
   
   The component parts of each sura are left wanting and needing some connection that the lack of chronology exacerbates.
   
   these are simple facts Paas...
   
   School is out.

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5. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   The first and the foremost source of Quran,Islam and Muhammad is Quran which has come to us in the pristine form both in the system of  verbal Committing it to the Memory and also in the Writing down the ages to our time and there is not a dot or pronounced letter of difference in it. Both supporting one another.
   
   Quran was the same in the time of Noeldke as it is now; as it was the same in the time of Muhammad.
   
   Noeldke or any other Orientalist do not have any other source as reliable as Quran for Quran,Islam and Muhammad ; some of them admit it very openly.
   
   If Noeldke had any other source more reliable than Quran; one should bring it out. Noeldke was a human being; if he made a mistake to turn to other sources which were less reliable, that is Noeldke's mistake; to err is human. One should not follow Noeldke blindly.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am An Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
   1. 61

      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You can continue to spout your junk Paas...
      
      So you agree the verse of the sword was a final command of allah. And that that is the over-riding principle of the Qu'ran, as left with the Ummah upon momo's death?
      
      And Paas... above in my second post, all the Islamic scolars dis-agree with you.
      
      And Paas... your heresy is showing.
      
      There wil be no Islamic apologist propaganda here, Paas... only the truth.

      replyreport
6. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   Noeldke might have researched about Quran and he might have brought out some good points but since he depended on sources other than Quran; sources which generated centuries after Muhammad so naturally he erred.
   
   Those who read the Quran daily they can observe things for themselves which are evident to them like daylight; they cannot follow Noeldke blindly.
   
   I give some glaring points here:
   
   1.    Quran is authored by the Creator-God Allah YHWH hence it has the same systems of its arrangement as the Universe has been arranged. If one understands the arrangements of Sun, Moon, Stars, Earth, Galaxies, Mountains ,rivers, deserts, valleys, forests, plains; then one can understand the arrangement of Quran; as all of them have been created by Him. If one does not understand the arrangement of the Universe and its units; then one is excused if he does not understand the arrangement of Quran.
   
   2.    The first Chapter of the Quran, which consists of the seven verses; it is the summary or essence of the Quran. The rest of the Quran explains it in detail. One could see this system easily in Quran.
   
   3.    The verses of Quran mostly have endings in some attributes of the Creator-God Allah YHWH; this inform us how different attributes do work in different circumstances.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
7. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   The Issue:
   
   You must take into consideration the, "Law of Abrogation", or, "Naskh" = Obliteration, or "to obliterate" to fully understand the Qur’an.
   
   The Answer:
   
   There is no "Law of Abrogation" in Quran as stated by a poster; not a dot of Quran or vowel has been abrogated since it was revealed on Muhammad. It is just a misunderstanding the verse out of the context.
   
   The abrogation is about the Books or teachings of other religions that were truthful in the origin; but the followers of these religions could not secure the revelation in its original language and meaning. Quran has abrogated all these corrupted scriptures and states that the importance of those scriptures, with the descent of Quran, is only nominal and academic. Quran has replaced those scriptures by bringing in similar verses in Quran or often modifying them with the better ones; and also inserting reasons for them which the Ancient Scriptures lacked.
   
   This way the teachings of those Ancient Scriptures have been honored and secured in better form.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

   replyreport
8. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   The Issue:
   
   You must take into consideration the, "Law of Abrogation", or, "Naskh" = Obliteration, or "to obliterate" to fully understand the Qur’an.
   
   The Answer:
   
   The theory of abrogation is totally wrong as could be seen by the following reasonable arguments:
   
   Against the theory of abrogation (as argued by the likes of jihadists), writes Maulana Muhammad Ali:
   Quote:
   That certain verses of the Quran are abrogated by others is now an exploded theory. The two passages on which it was supposed to rest, refer, really, to the abrogation, not of the passages of the Quran but of the previous revelations whose place the Holy Book had taken. The first verse is contained in the sixteenth chapter (al-Nahl) -- a Makkah revelation -- and runs thus: "And when We change a message for a message24 -- and Allah knows best what He reveals -- they say: Thou art only a forger" (16:101). It is a fact that details of the Islamic law were revealed at Madinah and it is in relation to these details that the theory of abrogation has been broached. Therefore, a Makkah revelation would not speak of abrogation. But the reference in the above verse is to the abrogation, not of the Quranic verses but of the previous Divine messages or revelations, consequent upon revelation of the Quran. The context shows this clearly to be the case, for the opponents are here made to say that the Prophet was a forger. He was so accused by the opponents not because he announced the abrogation of certain verses of the Quran but because he claimed that the Quran was a Divine revelation which had taken the place of previous revelations. They argued that it was not a revelation at all: "Only a mortal teaches him" (16:103). According to them the whole of the Quran, and not merely a particular verse of it, was a forgery. The theory of abrogation, therefore, cannot be based on this verse which speaks only of one revelation or one law taking the place of another.
   
   The other verse which is supposed to lend support to the theory runs thus: "Whatever message We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or one like it" (2:106). A reference to the context will show that the Jews or the followers of previous revelations are here addressed. Of these it is said: "they say: We believe in that which was revealed to us; and they deny what is besides that" (2:91). So they were told that if a certain revelation was abrogated, it was only to give place to a better one.
   
   Unquote
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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9. 51

   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   TMMason wrote:
   
   It is also mentioned throughout the histories and traditions that Mohammud forgot many of the suras he spoke, as they were not commited to any paper record.
   
   Paarsurrey says:
   
   Quran, the primary source of Muhammad's time, rejects that notion right in Quran:
   
   [75:18] Surely upon Us rests its collection and its recital.
   [75:19] So when We recite it, then follow thou its recital.
   [75:20] Then upon Us rests the expounding thereof.
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=14
   
   So there is not a chapter/surah or a verse of Quran which has been forgotten; every part of Quran in intact and secure.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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10. 51

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    Muhammad was assured by the Creator-God Allah YHWH that Muhammad as a human being, if sometimes forgets something, it would be repeated again to him by Gabriel. It is customary among Muslims that while the are praying and reciting Quran an the one who leads the prayer if he makes a mistake or forgets something, those who follow immediately make the correction; this is being done from the time of Muhammad. All Muslim take care that nobody changes anything of Quran; it is for these cumulative measured that Quran has reached us  pristine in the same form without a change of even a dot as it was reavealed to Muhammad.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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    1. 59

       Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Friend Usmanali - it is still nonsense. Sorry.
       
       Please try and provide some sort of reasoning behind your spam attacks on the forums. Repeating this nonsense over and over with no reason is doing what?
       
       Can you even think a single thought for yourself?
       
       Peaceful Truth Teller.

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11. 51

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    Quran is in the same pristine form as it was revealed on Muhammad; nobody could add anything or delete anything from it on his own ; not even a Caliph could do it.
    
    Many attempts have been made in the present era also to do it; but nobdoy can do it; Muslims have such a system that it can never happen.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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12. 51

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    Those who oppose Islam say that one or some chapters have been missed from Quran; but they could never mention of text of such verses or a chapter that have been missed, it is only their ambition that such a thing should have happened. It never happended and they don't have any proof of Muhammand's time; except their own imaginations and ambitions which never got fulfilled.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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13. 51

    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Hi friends
    
    Quran has a marvelous arrangement of its verses and chapters/suras; it is for this that if we don’t understand a verse, looking into the context always helps to understand the true meanings, it never fails. It is for this that whenever somebody present an objection on a verse, I ask him to give the text of the verse with five verses preceding and five verses following which usually exposes the absurdity of the objection and helps to bring forth the true meaning.
    
    Any body could verify it any time.
    
    Quran also mentions the true reasons with brilliant arguments; no other Revealed Book has these features with them; their followers have to add something from their own to make it reasonable. Any body could verify it any time.
    
    Thanks
    
    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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    1. 59

       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Or, easily refute.

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