Middle grounds between atheist and religion

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75
Castlepalomaposted 14 years ago
Please understand Its not my interest to debate, to down or be against anyone or belong to any group. I'm a fearless, loving and respect all people. Here is just a thought.

Christian upside is they run much of the world. They believe salvation is only way to Heaven or the downside is hell, wail most of the world’s population is not aware of Christ. The Atheists downside is their lack of imagination to run the world and science is their upside.

Christian forgives me for pointing out according to the word, only 144, 000 are sealed to go to heaven. That means maybe 100 billion souls who ever lived could be burning in hell. Jesus speaks far more about hell than about heaven? They want to take your immortal soul and Muslims go one step further, death to a Muslim, as you convert each one. I hope to share awareness with everyone to get along before war and toxic natural environment brings death to most of us. Or we can allow religions to keep running us further into an over ego world.

On the other extreme end of the poles is Richard Dawkins world’s most famous atheist claims he is a deeply religious atheist. He tours multi media into a verbal fight clubs with films like God Delusion, Root of all evil and Enemies of reason. It’s the context of the bigot not the words to be concern about. Albert Einstein is an example of a great person and who is middle grounds between God and science. Both Religion and Atheist want him in their camp and Hitler in the other. Or do you think my metaphors are grimmer than Grimm’s fairy tales?

It’s no wonder the majority of greatest and wisest people in history work the middle grounds of God. Can middle grounds exist or be possible between the two extreme poles of your soul? Personally, I think everyone and thing is God, no fighting recommended or required. You as an individual can choose middle grounds, to be a closer likeness to most of great people in history.
Would you choose middle grounds, to be more like great people and to more likely master life? Would that not increase your chances for the great unknown afterlife anyways?
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not true. Atheists have imaginations, they just don't let their imaginations rule their worldview.
  
  That makes no sense. How can one be a "deeply religious atheist"? Dawkins is simply an atheist.
  
  Not true. Dawkins gives seminars and talks about his books. I have read his books and been to his seminars, the only verbal fights come from the believers who attend.
  
  Einstein is on no middle ground with religion and science. He simply did not want to antagonize believers by stating his mind on the subject. He wasn't religious and was a very peaceful man.
  
  Your OP seem to be on par with fairy tales.
  
  Why kowtow to the myths and superstitions of the Bronze age, the same myths that accomplish little else than cause wars and conflict, divide mankind and teach hatred towards others?
  
  Great unknown afterlife? That's funny.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1. My mother, a few friends some employee are atheists. I put 8 years of my own study and found Atheist do lack imagination. That’s why; Religion is running the world and leading crusades except science. Imagination and sprit leads and ego and science follows.
  
  2. R. Dawkins said on you tube a few times he is deeply religious in the same sense as Einstein was. Not all religious types are unmerciful
  
  3 Dawkins knows people are going to fight when you call them the root of evil enemies of reason and God Delusional. Wouldn’t you? If you were part of most of the population, in which are religious?
  
  If Einstein never self proclaimed himself an atheist and claims a few time he is deeply religious. Then Einstein is somewhere in the middle.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol try to imagine there is no god.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Clearly, you're studies are flawed. It would be completely absurd to believe people are void of imaginations.
  
  Religion is running the world because it always ran the world, the result of religious indoctrination. That will change.
  
  Complete nonsense. No such claims were ever made.
  
  Where did Dawkins ever make that claim?
  
  Appeal to Popularity fallacy.
  
  He never claimed he was deeply religious, that is entirely false.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzedad
  
  I saw it twice on you tube also. unless the film was lying. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself
  
  Richard Dawkins: A Deeply Religious Nonbeliever (The God Delusion, Chapter I) Video
  
  If people were void of imagination they would be vegetables, atheist lack a positive imagination.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. Nothing there.
  
  Please define what is a "positive imaginations"?
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzedad
  
  Just google
  Richard Dawkins, deeply religious non believer
  
  I do not know how to link to this site.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've already explained your confusion.
  
  He held no middle ground, he was not religious and stated it quite emphatically.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure where your confusion is on this. Dawkins begins to explain that believers consider his atheism some sort of religion, a fallacious claim, of course. He goes on to explain that Einstein too was quoted as to having religion but Einstein made it clear this was nothing but believers who were spreading lies about him (where have we seen this before?) and that to put it into perspective, the only "religion" either one of them could attest to was the awe they both felt about nature and the universe, and NOT the superstitious supernatural religion that believers embrace.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My point.
  
  Einstein was somewhere in the middle with his own thoughts of what God like is.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That would be the downside. How do you expect that 'atheist' should choose middle ground when you don't actually intend for there to be middle ground?
  
  Christian's steal everything. Just taking the example of Einstein. He did NOT say Jesus. He said that people are calling him a believer when he specifically said, "it is a lie", but you go on lying about it hoping to entice some folks to your religion so that you can continue to 'rule the world'.
  
  Besides that, Christianity is NOT the dominate religion. That being said, I suppose I can understand why there is a sudden need from the Christiandom to "put on their god armor" and go to "battle"...
  
  Don't get me wrong though. I don't like Islam either but since atheist are the least of your worries why would you even bother to make this post about how atheist should find middle ground?
  
  There isn't a middle ground for atheist because the others wont let there be a middle ground. Stop trying to rule everyone, kill the disbelievers in your christ, stealing, cheating etc... and just maybe we could work with it.
  
  As it is, the Christians in America seem to want to take the only protection the "others" have and throw it in the shit can.
  
  There isn't a middle ground. We've been trying for centuries.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sandra
  
  There is a middle grounds between unbeliever in God and only one and right way to God. My Mother is atheist and my brother is a pastor I am living the middle grounds by being spiritual sided rather than religious and why would I lie about that to you.
  
  Atheist can take on the front lines of religious bullies as far as I care, I rather be cautiously brave and have a clean criminal record too. I think Atheist would make better pubic servants and do their soul job of protecting the people,
  
  Who's the most dominate Religion?
  
  There is a middle ground, its slowly coming and its called the spiritual age
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not a basic tenet of Christianity to believe that only 144,000 will go to Heaven. I dunno where you got that. Maybe some Christians believe that, but not I, and not any Christian that I know.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have given this 144,000 written quotes to a few christain and atheists sites where no christain can give me a written words to bunk it.
  
  "Before the throne" of God. Revelation 7:9, 15. Where are the 144,000? In exactly the same place, "before the throne" Revelation 14:1, 3. Compare 6:8-9; 6:9,11; 11:16.
  And where is the temple of God where the great crowd will serve? The temple of God is "in heaven." Revelation 11:19; 14:17; 15:5-6.
  "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever." Psalm 37:29. So will the great crowd never go to heaven? Are not 144,000 righteous? Don’t they go to heaven ? Then we could say they don’t inherit the earth. Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world !Then where is it until it comes to earth ?
  The 144,000 rule "on" the earth. Revelation 6:10. The New World Translation says "over" but the Greek says "upon".
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Castlepaloma wrote
  I have given this 144,000 written quotes to a few christain and atheists sites where no christain can give me a written words to bunk it.
  - - - - - - -
  
  Don't know about debunking but will share my thoughts but lets put the verses in order.
  This is what the words of the message actually say when a minimum amount of analogy is applied.
  
  As soon as the bloodied Lamb of God arrives in heaven he takes the book and begins opening the seals Rev 5:6
  Rev 6:10 is not talking about the 144,000. At this time those had not yet been given the seal.
  These are Every soul that had ever been slain for the word of God from the beginning of time. They are under the alter meaning not in heaven YET! They are told to wait a little season.
  
  After the passing of the little season ... Rev 7:9 AFTER THIS I beheld, and, lo, a great number which no man can count ... stood before the throne...
  The little season must have come to fulfillment.
  144,000 is a countable number! this is talking about many more people than the 144,000.
  The 144,000 are said to be the first to arrive in heaven but might have been the first of this innumerable number.
  
  We must note that this is only after the sixth seal is opened. The seventh hasn't been opened yet! And when it does .... nothing happens??? except for there being 1/2 hour of silence ... This silence shows that there is a separation in time between the events mentioned earlier and everything mentioned afterwards.
  
  Six of the trumpets are sounded AND THEN the story line falls back in time (like in a movie) Filling in necessary information before proceeding with the rest of these Judgments.
  After this "Catch up" information is given, Then the previous story line continues. Rev. 14 At that time, the 144,000 had been with Christ for quite some time.
  After the 144,000 are described again, an angle is seen declaring that the hour of Gods judgment has come"
  
  When this event occured Satan was bound in the bottomless pit.. Rev. 20. Those that had overcome the Beast is said to have been resurrected and reign with Christ, IN HEAVEN, for 1000 years. During which time the 42 months of the beast continues on.
  After Satan is released from the bottomless pit and when the sixth bowl is poured out, ... the devil, the Beast , and the False Prophet are seen in the dried up riverbed, sending spirits out to gather the kings of the earth together to the LAST battle.
  
  Time sequencing of the prophesy and a timeline comparison of prophetic time and earth time are necessary to understand what is actually written in prophesy.
  Understanding that a week in prophesy is the same length of time as approx 9.13 to 9.16 of our years on earth.
  
  But everyone loves arguing over whose interpretation is the best.
  
  I have attempted to NOT interpret but to sit in sequence, the references that you asked about.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami
  
  Bible Quotes
  
  We must note that this is only after the sixth seal is opened. The seventh hasn't been opened yet! And when it does .... nothing happens??? except for there being 1/2 hour of silence ... This silence shows that there is a separation in time between the events mentioned earlier and everything mentioned afterwards.
  
  Six of the trumpets are sounded AND THEN the story line falls back in time (like in a movie) Filling in necessary information before proceeding with the rest of these Judgments.
  After this "Catch up" information is given, Then the previous story line continues. Rev. 14 At that time, the 144,000 had been with Christ for quite some time.
  After the 144,000 are described again, an angle is seen declaring that the hour of Gods judgment has come"
  
  No change since it has been written, not until perhaps, 2012 end of the world. I have heard that one a few time in my lifetime.
  
  Only 3% of Christain go to church, that mean billions more could be joining the 100 billion souls who ever lived on earth in hell.
  
  Ohhh! Thank you!!! all loving God...not
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that you just misunderstood what I said.
  
  I said that the 144,000 were the only ones that are first!!!!!!!!
  Everybody else is second....
  
  This happened upon the first resurrection that happened a long time ago !!
  
  Yes ! the 42 months of the beast is due to be finished around (Maybe) 2012. And maybe as late as 2028ish
  BUT
  I didn't say everyone else is going to the other place.
  
  Why does everybody keep saying that??
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The bible claims its Universal truth and knowledge. Where every word is truth, wail many translations are wrong and why there is 2000 disagreeable version of the Bible.
  
  No other words describe other than 144,000 where we go.
  
  Maybe outer space, maybe hell.
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  mom101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda, jehovahs witnesses believe that only 144,000 will go to Heaven and that those 144,000 are the elders of their faith.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  144,000 is a gematria for 9.
  
  nine is a number that represents completion. I wouldn't take it literally. A lot of the things in bibles are riddles that were made so to protect the knowledge from those they do not wish to share them with.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Most likely to control the people by the Church. Like a mushroom living in the dark and feeding on s___
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  absolutely...its ridiculous
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God lives in the dark, according to the Bible.
  
  Do you believe Spiritual leaders who need power to dominate the whole world, would not keep you in the dark and not feed you what they want you to know?
  
  Living in the dark makes sense to me.
  Spiritual for me means, greater than 99% of the world and Universe is unknown to each and every one of us.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what this means in mystical terms, if you understand the esoteric language is...
  
  the source of divine knowledge is the unknown.
  
  See the bible is filled with remnants of an old knowledge that is now watered down. If you look at the history of the bible, it was translated several times across cultures and ages. Many things in Aramaic cannot be translated in Greek as the context is different.
  
  Today there are people who are piecing together the confusion and if you want to learn more about it, there are plenty of books on Gnosticism, the original christianity, judeo-christian mysticism.
  
  What is important is that you see them not as THINGS TO BELIEVE WITHOUT QUESTION but as literature, very important literature that reveals the understanding of the ancients.
  
  It is not a waste of time. You define what you take out of it, it shouldn't define you.
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  thisisoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Technically there is no middle ground, follow the bible to the letter or you are going to hell.
  
  I would be interested to see how you think Christians run much of the world though. They have a curiously strong grip on America, in most of Europe religion is pretty lacking though.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I lived in Europe, that is just not true.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thisisoli
  
  Technically your right, I'm too fearless and god all loving to ever subscribe to hell, if seem you would not too. Just think about how many Christian do in all of Centro and South America. Study how many parts of Africa, China and Russia is growing fast too. Must be one of those contradictory shows, like this link below
  
  You may enjoy this
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
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Mikeydoesposted 14 years ago
I was a Catholic younger, then I became an Atheist.

Now I would say I am somewhere in between. I am much more spiritual, not to the point where I pray to anyone or anything.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hollywood movies about hell, scared the hell out of me.
  
  How did you get over the fear of going to hell?
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  Mikeydoesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well my older cousin told was an Atheist when I was around 11 and I did just as I had learned from Catholics: I yelled at him and told him he was going to hell!
  
  From that point on I realized wow, why did I say that? I felt so stupid for saying something to my cousin that it really made me think of what I was saying. The fact that I was taught to tell him that made religion absurd for me at the time. I thought if God didn't exist why would hell.
  
  I was scared of hell at one point, but once I realized it may not be true(in my mind), it didn't bother me so much.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Well, it looks like another thread for fodder for the atheists.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A fobber
  A soldier serving with the United States Military in a combat zone who never goes outside the gate of their post for any reason.
  
  Are you a Cristain soldier?
  
  I believe in god.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're just food for the feast to be had.
  
  I'm not an atheist.
  I'm not of any religious view.
  
  You believe in a god. And, you bring this up why?
  
  I know you are feeding the need to make your presence known, however, what you believe with regards to imaginary gods is your business. When talking about it, brings conflict.
  
  Do you enjoy conflict? There is no need to answer, because you actions speak for you. But, thanks for playing along.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said in the post I'm not interested in debates, just sharing thoughts. I belong to no group, liked some of the notes Einstein made about God.
  
  Its starting to sound like a game show.
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wyanjenposted 14 years ago
Einstein was not a middle ground between god and science.

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." ~Albert Einstein

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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But of course he stupidly said other things that the religious use to show the opposite.
  
  He should have known better. But he didn't.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. It's frustrating, because it wasn't a matter of conviction. He was just looking for a broader audience I think.
  
  Sagan knew better
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know what did go on behind Einstein's eye balls?
  
  Did you know him personally?
  
  Einstein also said he believes in God and is deeply religious.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is taking his statement out of context along with other things he said. You MUST engulf everything he said and determine the truth of his words.
  
  By Christians picking just singular statements, it defrauds Einstein's actual ideology.
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  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This feels so much like a second grade "I know you are but what am I" kinda thing, but...
  
  Did YOU know him personally?
  sheesh.
  
  You started off by saying you're not interested in debating. Seems to me you're just looking for some confrontation. I should have to know him personally? Really?
  
  I doubt the man was lying when he claimed he was being lied about. But, interpret as you wish.
  
  Have a nice day.
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china manposted 14 years ago
Yet another drive-by preacher - maybe these threads should have a symbol of a little tent with a snake oil wagon by the side.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I liked how the "greatest and wisest" happen to be those who agree with him/her but Dawkins is a bigot.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think Dawkins loves and respects most members (human or spiritual beings) of this known world? In which, are religious and most likly they do not like him.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. I agree.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  SpiritMom
  
  I am non bias of both sides.
  
  I've been to several atheist sites and cannot find one atheist that finds any of Dawkins films bigoted or have some kind of Christian phobia.
  
  Sometimes, I think I'm crazy. What do other Christians think?
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He is a bigot simply because he waged a war on religion.
  
  http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_dawkin … heism.html
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religions war on mankind, rationale and reason has been ongoing for centuries. It has taught intolerance of others to people for just as long. Dawkins is attacking the bigotry of religions.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong again
  
  Noboby read the memo within the post?
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exorterposted 14 years ago
no one knows what Einstein has said or not said, I have read this statement about Jesus, all we have is hearsay.
I have heard this and heard this about the sayings of Jesus,
Now you want to use hearsay about Einstein as fact
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was 2000 years ago with 2000 disagreeable version of the Bible. I have an old friend who was one of Einstein's students. Thats third handed anyways and I'm a big fan of his work..
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  exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a fan also, but hearsay is hearsay
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evvy_09posted 14 years ago
What middle ground is there between believing in God and not believing in God?
I do believe but I'm not Christian or really belong to any religion. I won't follow anybody that condemns others for differing beliefs. If I live wrong and go to hell that is nobody else's problem but mine, same goes to anyone. It's not my job to defend God or convert anybody to my beliefs. Only job I have is to protect and help provide for the people I love.
But really I have to ask why in (insert whatever word you want here)'s name are we still bickering over this? It's pointless and won't change anything in this world. If you want to make a difference go adopt a puppy lol
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I travel too much, I'm happy for you for finding a best friend.
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exorterposted 14 years ago
I believe and am a Christian, I go to church when the doors are open, The church I go to doe's not condemn others for believing differently than we do, we try not to speak badly about anyone,
All Christians do not judge others
All churches do not judge others
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  evvy_09posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then you are lucky to have found a good church. For myself, my family and friends have become my church, we pray and celebrate the good things and the bad things and just try to do good in life.
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  exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree there are not many Churches like this one, there are only about 20 people in it but, I have found the small Churches help me to grow in Christ better
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh come on, for any group I've ever meet, Christain judge people more than any group I know.
  
  Have Christains ever gone to war?
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  exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you met the wrong people
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If Christains are not lending in judging people or war, who is?
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I mean leading judging and war?
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Castlepaloma wrote:
Please understand Its not my interest to debate, to down or be against anyone or belong to any group. I'm a fearless, loving and respect all people. Here is just a thought.

Christian upside is they run much of the world. They believe salvation is only way to Heaven or the downside is hell, wail most of the world’s population is not aware of Christ. The Atheists downside is their lack of imagination to run the world and science is their upside.

Christian forgives me for pointing out according to the word, only 144, 000 are sealed to go to heaven. That means maybe 100 billion souls who ever lived could be burning in hell. Jesus speaks far more about hell than about heaven? They want to take your immortal soul and Muslims go one step further, death to a Muslim, as you convert each one. I hope to share awareness with everyone to get along before war and toxic natural environment brings death to most of us. Or we can allow religions to keep running us further into an over ego world.

On the other extreme end of the poles is Richard Dawkins world’s most famous atheist claims he is a deeply religious atheist. He tours multi media into a verbal fight clubs with films like God Delusion, Root of all evil and Enemies of reason. It’s the context of the bigot not the words to be concern about. Albert Einstein is an example of a great person and who is middle grounds between God and science. Both Religion and Atheist want him in their camp and Hitler in the other. Or do you think my metaphors are grimmer than Grimm’s fairy tales?

It’s no wonder the majority of greatest and wisest people in history work the middle grounds of God. Can middle grounds exist or be possible between the two extreme poles of your soul? Personally, I think everyone and thing is God, no fighting recommended or required. You as an individual can choose middle grounds, to be a closer likeness to most of great people in history.
Would you choose middle grounds, to be more like great people and to more likely master life? Would that not increase your chances for the great unknown afterlife anyways?

Brenda Durham WROTE ....
It's not a basic tenet of Christianity to believe that only 144,000 will go to Heaven. I dunno where you got that. Maybe some Christians believe that, but not I, and not any Christian that I know.
======================

Brenda is correct. The 144,000 are only the first fruit.
It is said that they lived a blemish life. They were perfect.
They didn't require their laundry to be sent out for cleaning.

On the other issue. Middle ground?
Jesus said that the path is wide and the gate is narrow.

Sounds to me that the gate is most likely to be someplace close to the middle of the path.
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I am DB Cooperposted 14 years ago
I always thought Unitarianism was the middle ground. It's like church for atheists, but with an acceptance for theists.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DB
  
  How could you leave out most of the known world, theist and most often think that is the middle grounds?
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Middle grounds between atheist and religion

Being moderate and kind is another thing; there is no middle ground; the reality must be accepted in full.

[2:205] And of men there is he whose talk on this life would please thee, and he would call Allah to witness as to that which is in his heart, and yet he is the most contentious of quarrellers.
[2:206] And when he is in authority, he runs about in the land to create disorder in it and destroy the crops and the progeny of man; and Allah loves not disorder.
[2:207] And when it is said to him, ‘Fear Allah,’ pride incites him to further sin. So Hell shall be his sufficient reward; and surely, it is an evil place of rest.
[2:208] And of men there is he who would sell himself to seek the pleasure of Allah; and Allah is Compassionate to His servants.
[2:209] O ye who believe! come into submission wholly and follow not the footsteps of Satan; surely, he is your open enemy.
[2:210] But if you slip after the clear Signs that have come to you, then know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=208

The Atheists are wrong obviously
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have traveled much of the Middle East. I don't think of Muslim of Being a moderate religion or think Muslim can be that moderate or middle grounds. If one a Muslim tries to convert, it could mean death or divorce is one in a thousand. To be able to understand many atheists’ points of view, it would naturally draw you to closer middle grounds.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Middle East or any other region do not represent Quran/Islam/Muhammad ; for truthful moderate teachings one should see the roots in the Quran; the first and the foremost source of Muslims whatever the denomination.
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Paar is a bit mashugana
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know what country you come from. Many countries in the Middle East live by the word of God in their constitution.
  
  Imagine if the word of God was in the American Constitution, I sure they would loss much of their imagination, power and middle grounds.
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  " That they are endowed by their creator. with certain inalienable rights." Is only one phrase, there are others. Separation between church and state is as much for the state as it is for church, and ours says this "Congress shall make NO LAW regarding an establishment of religion, or the free exercise thereof." Top that.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does a creator have to be a god? Many of that time believed in a creator that did nothing but set things in motion.
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  Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Creator does suggest intelligent design. In a no god concept, creator is many elements combining in ways to make life. But does this fit the term Creator? Many things come together to create a diamond, but is the diamond truly created? In science, gravity, an unseen force made nothing explode, creating the universe from nothing (Of course this is stated simply) In this instance, isn't gravity merely replacing one word with another. This is why believers and non-believers occupiing the same place at the same time results in the annihilation of all reason.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A creator could be a third year physics major in another universe. Nothing there to worship or be in awe of.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Quran is for the ethical, moral and spiritual guidance of man. The governments are run by the constitutions; these normally are formulated by the legislators for the temporal matters; they may get guidance from Quran in ethical, moral and spiritual fields if they are convinced for the betterment of their people; no harm in it. Quran is for every body under the sun.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  paarsurrey
  
  Glad your not running off this time
  
  Quran is one book among millions of books. Most people do not want the same book. Life is limited less and boundless and people know what is wrong or right.
  
  If I was born in most parts of the Middle East. I would most likely be forced to choose to be Muslim. If I tried to convert to another faith or spirit, death could be my outcome, mmmm seem harmful.
  
  That can be very limited thinking against my ethics, natural flow, freedom choices and game over.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I humbly submitted that Quran/Islam/Muhammad are for the whole world; it is for any country and every country; if a country does wrong; they are responsible for their fault not Quran/Islam/Muhammad. One has to see the teachings in the roots of the Quran; that is the source not a particular region or a country.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Middle grounds between atheist and religion

The Atheists are wrong obviously in not believing in the Creator-God Allah YHWH

Being moderate and kind is another thing; there is no middle ground; the reality must be accepted in full.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I always am amused when theists mention "reality".
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nevermind; the same way I get amused when Atheists talk of reality; they don't have any
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We don't?
  
  Of course not. The computer I am using isn't real, but the make believe thing you pray to is.
  
  Sure...
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They do have a reality and their reality is just as valid as yours. They are pragmatic and they like to deal with things that they can understand. It is a way to simplify living because some do not have the stamina to chase after things that will not impact them now.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well obviously they have a different reality... but their reality is just as valid as yours. Reality is largely influenced by perception.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the bee has a different reality but its reality is just as real as ours.
  
  A computer is tangible, but the reality of a spiritual feeling, though intangible affects tangible things. What makes a man give up his trade to help the needy? They are called by that reality to do such a thing and therefore impact reality.
  
  You are saying your computer is real and what they imagine is not. Imagination is a gateway to put a face on real abstract events in a person's life.
  
  Compare it to math.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, it is not. Reality remains reality despite anyone's perception of it. It is the ideals and beliefs we embrace that influence our perception of reality.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzedad
  
  I somewhat agree with SpiritMom
  
  About 50% of my life is about me the other 50% is about everyone else.
  
  For me, I just have a problem with over obeying religious law.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Notice that equates to 100% reality.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And when you get down to it Beelzedad, what is that? What is that reality that you say is the reality when all of us are beholden by our perceptions?
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  paarsurrey
  
  We are already evolving to a middle grounds. In Canada 100 years ago Christian was at 98%, today 50%. Religion will shirk from the infor/entertainment age to the spiritual age melting pot 20 years from now. The skin colors will evolve to the colors brown. The world will change itself to Middle grounds, no matter what you or I can do or say.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is a middle ground.
  
  You can see the truth in the religions of the world and still be sane in your view of where they are true and where they are in fact riddles that you unfold in your awakening enlightenment.
  
  Many messages are not clear until you experience them in your own life.
  
  In many religions it is called the Central Pillar, and is supposedly the symbolism of the Cross.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  SpiritMom
  
  Being nailed to a cross is like a symbol of pain and going to hell is a symbol of UN loving to me. I can also take the best from all groups and incorporated into my life for enlightenment
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You cannot ride two boats; surely it would be wrong and you would be thrown away into the sea . Don't compromise on TRUTH; only side with truth:
  
  [2:256] Allah — there is no God but He, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that will intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them; and they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He pleases. His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth; and the care of them burdens Him not; and He is the High, the Great.
  [2:257] There should be no compulsion in religion. Surely, right has become distinct from wrong; so whosoever refuses to be led by those who transgress, and believes in Allah, has surely grasped a strong handle which knows no breaking. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
  [2:258] Allah is the friend of those who believe: He brings them out of every kind of darkness into light. And those who disbelieve, their friends are the transgressors who bring them out of light into every kind of darkness. These are the inmates of the Fire; therein shall they abide.
  
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=256
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  paarsurrey
  
  Most likely, your one sided brainwashed forever
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you are not. Are you?
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Belonging to no group, allows me so.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you are confused all over. Aren't you?
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What, confused about Allah?
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  keep it up guys...no you're delusional, no you are, no you are, no you are....to infinity and beyond.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK Mom
  
  Maybe I am becoming pointless.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
The bible claims its Universal truth and knowledge.
- - - -
Does it really ???

- - ========================
Where every word is truth, wail many translations are wrong and why there is 2000 disagreeable version of the Bible
- - - -
If There are 2000 different disagreeable interpretations, it is because there are 2000 different disagreeable people that wrote them.

It is interpretation that we have to watch out for...
not so much of a translation thing!
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All those translation, interpretation and made up stuff , makes up for 1/3 of our worlds population. Only 3% go to church, so what the hell.
  
  I'll be buying land very cheap after 2012.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand ?
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The disagreeable1/3 of Christian who claim they have the only one and only right way to God.
  
  The rest of us will face all loving God's wrath Judgment Day. Wonder if God’s correct answer is the Jews.
  
  Land will be dust Cheap, anyways.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I don't think that it is just Christians or just any religious that think that they are right.
We all do to some extent. We all think that we have proof to substantiate our beliefs. Another may not accept our proof but it is good enough for us.
This also is true for me and everyone that has a belief.

Why are there 2000 different interpretations?? It is kinda like this....
If I made a statement of 25 or less words, and it was pure wisdom that answered your every question.
People will be filled with the urge to interpret it.
After a few generations there will be 2000 interpretations of my message.

After enough time passes, my message (as mentioned above)will have lost all meaning because people will not be able to see past the multiple interpretations well enough to see the original content with the clarity that their forefathers had seen.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I tried very hard, for so long to understand the Bible. In order I can love my love ones better, who are Christians, The Bible only manages to fills me up with so much non sense, dead ends and loop holes, I am far too curious and base my life on good sense to find it good enough, Its very differicult to be inspired by med evil people who could manage enough consciousness to live pass age mid 20s life expectancy, The Bible has stoning, wars, violence in which should be label xxx.
  
  Bible quote
  "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
  
  The only thing I hang on to is the mystic feeling Jesus was a very intelligent and spiritual human being, He was only angry with the church. That I understand.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Castlepalomawrote..
  I tried very hard, for so long to understand the Bible.
  The Bible only manages to fills me up with so much non sense, dead ends and loop holes,
  - - - -
  
  No One Is Going To Like what I say next,,, but it needs to be said
  
  I think that the bible was put together to be confusing from the beginning. And even then, those that joined this religion were not allowed to read it. They had no choice but to follow that theology without knowing anything about it.
  For a thousand years the church was unbridled in establishing their interpretations of scripture as truth that everyone had to live by, or die.
  
  When they began selling Free Passes into heaven to anyone that had enough money to pay, Martin Luther finally had had enough.
  Jesus said that we can recognize a tree from its fruit.
  You might say that Luther recognized this tree to be a Persimmon tree.
  You might say that at that time, a limb broke away from the tree and then grew on its own. And it soon produced limbs of its own that broke away from that tree.
  You might say that these trees are all persimmon trees of different intensity of flavor.
  
  The New Testament is the first fruits of the religion that the Roman Empire built. It is the inspired word of God, ... with just a little bit of persimmon added.
  And as time passed ... a little more persimmon was added.
  Jesus would have called this Levin.
  Martin Luther diluted some of this Levin out of Church doctrine yet he wasn't able to get it all.
  
  The people had become accustomed to the taste of persimmon, and didn't notice it in the diluted version.
  
  I do believe that what Satan intends for evil, God somehow turns to Good.
  I think that God sent his two witnesses down to the earth (Rev. 11:3) in order to insure a certain balance within the church.
  Good and bad within the same man made organizations.
  I don't know how that works?
  I just think that it does.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the bible is a translation of a very intense ancient cosmological ideology. It is pretty bastardized.
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  Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The ancient spirituality worked well for its time. When living in the now consciousness brings life expectancy pass age 8o years and brings less wars per capita, then any other time in history. Why follow like a blind sheep to times of stoning, wars and too much hard ship to bear or is that to bare. That’s like hit on the head lessons, when there are millions of other better ways. Part of my job is studying history for many of the top museum in North America. Too many rules chock people when they already know whats wrong or right. I don’t need the so called, USA Christian nation to show me what Sodom and Gomorra is like, when they are the best example of Sodom and Gomorra, its all self prophecy. An example is a job did in Sheboygan WI, Per capita they had more bars combine with churches than any city in the USA. I guess the idea is to wash their sins away.
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  SpiritMomposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The stories are not history but recurring histories of man. They are archetypal, and therefore they bear lessons that have no time nor place. The lessons of destruction in the wake of losing what makes us human is a universal story that happens periodically. This is the value of these stories. But if we insist they are historical instead of symbolic, we fail to gain insight from them. Instead they corrupt our ability to think for ourselves.
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