What would be the acme of interminable human "evolution?"

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   ...can you imagine this?
   
   Pls, monotheists have nothing credible to offer, so, "fundies," don't bother trying to answer this question.
   TY.
   Jeez! Am I gonna get banned for this comment?

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      you mean by that question "pinnacle of human's that can't be wiped out?"  Like a science fiction movie or something?

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      Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Religion is the acme corporation of unstoppable human evolution. Famous for outlandish and downright dangerous products that fail catastrophically at the worst possible times.
      
      Now if you are looking for the peak or zenith of human evolution, I don't know if it's possible to determine this. If man manages to destroy the planet with "nukes", I would say the acme of interminable human evolution was the creation of the first atomic weapon.

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         qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Stump:
         Great!
         Now forward the evolution of man 2 - 3 million yrs ahead.
         I said "interminable man."
         Think in those terms as it is related to "infinite" evolution.
         I am thinking of man as being far beyond the possiblity of tranhumanism as we define it today.
         Good shot tho...got ya thinkin'!
         The fad, religion, would have been gone and forgotten.
         The human creature has no evolutionary limits because there is no limit to evolution.
         Thanks for trying!    :-)
         Qwark

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            Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think we will get much further before we find a reason good enough to try and kill everyone. A few will survive, regress to the hunter gather stage and all knowledge will be lost.  The process will start all over again with the re-invention of the wheel. This cycle will continue to repeat at random intervals with no reason other than man's inability to live with his neighbors. I sincerely hope that one of these times it's the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy that survives and become the book of knowledge. We will have a ball and I can't wait to get to meet the talking cow at The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. 
            
            It's never a good idea to ask me to turn the brain loose. It has a problem of getting itself into trouble on it's own. Becareful, you've been warned, lol.

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            Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            here's some speculations
            
            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7103668/
            
            thing is humans are so interconnected globally, separate species are unlikely to evolve naturally.  Will be more effects of human activity tampering

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               qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Bailey: g'mornin'.
               We are a "complex" life form. To notice genetic changes in us takes hundreds of thousands of years. altho man has experienced great evolutionary changes in the past 30 - 40 k yrs.
               I'm considering man being intrinsically evolved in his own evolution by controlling his environment, genetic engineering, nano and virtual technology, robotics, whatever he can imagine.
               I'm also pushing human evolution ahead a couple million yrs and leaving it up to you and your imagination.
               A thousand yrs or two? If we survive? Sure there will be amazing changes, but i'm thinking,again in terms of "acme" and "interminable."

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   I know, it requires "thought."
   Let yer wildest thoughts guide yer words.
   Go for it.

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   ...too tough?  :-)

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   Rafiniposted 13 years ago

   Acceptance of others as being different from ourselves along with the realization that differences are only skin deep - and then never going back to the days of indifference because the knowledge of acceptance demands the ultimate human sacrifice: letting go of ignorance.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Rafini:
      Try going far, far, far beyond contemporary mankind.
      Ty...give it another shot.
      Take us to profoundly distant places in the imagination.

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         Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         are you talking science, such as - cloning?  forced reincarnation?  I think I'd have to go with the second one....science might be able to make it happen, since they've already made cloning possible.

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Raf:
            I'm not gonna put any thoughts into your mind about what I mean.
            Let that fertile imagination take you on a journey thru time and space into existences that contemporary man can only imagine.
            Go for it....:-)

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               Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               ^_^  no thanks, I'm not much into scientific thought - more philosophical. ^_^
               
               Hope you get some great answers, though!!

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                  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Raf:
                  Philosophy will fill the bill.
                  I don't care where your mind goes in searching for a response.
                  Have at it.   :-)

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   My goodness!
   The forum subject "insults" is getting a helluva lot more "play" than this one.
   Golly, I wonder what this indicates?...lolol   :-)

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   ediggityposted 13 years ago

   It indicates that, once again, most people have no idea what you are talking about.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ediggity:
      ...evidently! ...:-)

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      yeah, I'm not really sure what the question means

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         qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hey Edigg and Bailey:
         Ya understand the words don't'cha?
         Just follow yer imaginations.
         I don't care how wild yer responses are.
         What if man were interminable? What might you imagine the acme of his evolution be?
         Thats kinda simply and succinctly put, isn't it?...:-)
         Qwark

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            Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            qwark people don't respond to your threads because you're like a child with your endless unanswerable questions.
            
            Well, naturally I have no answer. What do we lack? Perhaps our internal organs will begin to change to adapt to the lower air quality. Perhaps our skin and eyes will change to adapt to the harsher sun. But these are not necessarily improvements, just adaptations.
            
            Social evolution I doubt is relevant to your train of thought, but I kinda like to think any upcoming human evolutions will be brain-focused, a change in how we use our brains, but then there's a difference between tapping into what is already there and actually developing a new mind-based ability.
            
            But then you seek the acme. I have to confess I really have trouble even looking at it that way. I am not sure evolution really equals an innate improvement over what came before. To me evolution is just kinda one thing leads to another, lol. Very simplistic, I realize.
            
            Perhaps we've passed our apex? Maybe it's all downhill from here. The great force behind life will make a mental note that providing too much brain power and consciousness leads to nothing more than too many living beings with nothing to do but pretty much become a drain on a planet's resources.
            
            Interesting, isn't it, that no other species on earth has the ability to destroy the world. Only us.
            
            Maybe it's our purpose, or rather our natural place in the wheel of life. The death of our world can seed life on new planets.
            
            Maybe this much consciousness has to lead to a destruction. You'd certainly think this much destruction would lead to a new consciousness, but that ain't happened yet.
            
            But again, I think that's just social evolution.
            
            We could develop wings, but that seems unlikely at this point.
            
            Okay a new consciousness. Which is where you led me before on another thread. But, I still see no reason why it would suddenly not be linked to the material.
            
            All I can see is that we will physically change when our environment or general living conditions change. The only evolutions that could make us innately better would be ones expanding our living potential, adaptations don't make us innately better.
            
            Dunno. So I'll have to go philosophical. The acme of our evolution would be when everyone was fed and cared for, and loved. And when we could extend that outwards to providing the same for our planet as a whole and other living beings. This doesn't mean there'd be no suffering, no pain, but there'd be no cruelty, no neglect.
            
            These are the only things that would truly make us 'better'. Anything else would just make us different, therefore no apex achieved.
            
            We either endlessly evolve to adapt, maybe develop new 'powers' or abilities, eventually spreading to other planets, which we will rape, or we will self-destruct and contribute our matter and energy to the universe at large and beyond, or we will achieve a new consciousness that is actually capable of solving the world's eons-old problems. If the first, there is no real acme, if the second, we are the acme, if the third, boy have we got a long way to go and I think gene selection and reproductive control will have to play a part. Even then I'm not sure it's possible.

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               qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks Anesidora:
               You put some thought into that response.
               The problem with it is that it is not imaginative.
               Your imagination ceased to flow forward at the end of your nose.
               You are a contemporary, ordinary human creature, involved in present life.
               I am looking for a far sighted response that takes us maybe a few million years into the future.
               There's no doubt that we won't make it, but I like to think in terms of what could be,  knowing there are no limits to man's abilities or evolutions forward movement.
               I appreciate the comparison to a "child" asking questions. At my age, my curiosity and my imagination inspire me to ask for "input."
               There are few that I've chatted with in my life who aren't manacled to small talk and thought.
               When I find someone who can conjure up possiblities which one day could become reality, I am fascinated and intrigued.
               I could sit and compare notes for hours.
               Your response to my question is appreciated, honestly, but it portrays you as just an average guy/girl/woman with average understanding and imagination.
               Some of my "hubs" reflect what my question is about and 1 or 2 go into detail.
               Thanks for trying.
               Qwark

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               Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'm pessimestic - I think it's downhill too.  Maybe the plot for some disturbing science fiction stories - someone that clones a superbeing that never gets sick and has power over everyone?
               Everyone runs out of food and eats each other?  Culling of the human race? -  if that happened, I would pick the criminals, manipulators and corrupt to go first - that includes politicians.   Those "in power"cull those that are "too intelligent" and don't follow the crowd (they'd only want to keep those that are easy to control).  The only "intellligent" ones are the ones that can do all the cloning etc - maybe keep a "stock" of "good" genes.
               War - nuclear or bioterror.  Mass starvation.  More aggression competing for less resources etc etc.
               Either way, it's all depressing to contemplate.
               Maybe I could attempt to write a short story about it?  If it's not too depressing - the human race doesn't end nicely

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         DoorMattnomoreposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I saw acme, and now I cant stop thinking about Bugs Bunny.....sorry qwark.

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            NP Door...:-)

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   Anesidoraposted 13 years ago

   Hah! LOL. Yer so predictable.
   
   Yeah that's another reason noone plays with you. Fine. Count me as one more average person who will no longer be foolish enough to take your pointless bait.
   
   Good luck with that. Frankly I don't know why you don't just start writing sci-fi novels.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Anesidora:
      My goodness! Such passion!
      Tell ya what. I certainly don't want you to be unhappy.
      Lets make a deal...ok?
      You don't pay any attention to my forum subjects and I'll add you to my list of those who have nothing of value to offer, so I ignore them.
      Deal?
      I think this is more than fair. I hope ya agree.
      lol
      Qwark

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      yeah, write a sci-fi novel - with this topic, everyone will want to kill themselves after reading it!

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   couturepopcafeposted 13 years ago

   A world where humans grow things with their minds.  We will have attained the ability to bring about anything simply by focusing on it.  We could communicate without speaking, see through objects, not literally, but by knowing what is within it or on the other side because of the focused energy we possess. 
   
   We would have the grace not to read another's mind and the sensitivity to know what they are feeling emotionally.  There might still be those who use their power for wrongdoing but the collective good of the many would have the power to potentially stop them.
   
   All flora would be full of life-giving energy because of the love we focus onto it.  We would 'understand' animals.  We would be able to regenerate body parts at will. 
   
   Clothing would be very basic and used only for protection from the elements and sanitary purposes.  Housing would be virtual, with entryways which appear and disappear as needed.  We would actually be moving through matter instead of removing it from a space so we can pass by it.  We would sleep on air, as in a levitated state and if we still have physical bodies at all, we would eat only plants.
   
   Death as we know it would not exist.  Instead, a changing of objective form would occur and we would literally move on to another realm in the multiverse.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      couture:
      EXCELLENT!
      Now were using the "old noodle!"
      Do you think that what you described would be the ACME of human evolution or just a point at which we might evolve along the way?
      I'm kinda thinking in terms of 2 - 3 million yrs when humankind would in no way resemble the man of today. What might man have evolved to?
      Even then, if he were to survive, evolution would continue as long as man inhabits this earth.
      If he manages to escape, as our earth is being destroyed by our sun, and he searches the universe for a home, what might he resemble in your wildest imagination?
      Good for you tho! You are thinking! Just as those science fiction writers of the past did. That which they imagined, later became todays reality!
      Curiosity is the essence of human existence and imagination is the creator!
      Qwark   :-)

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         couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Whose noodle you callin' old?

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            couture: ooopps! Lost my head....lol   Figure of speech...gulp ..pls forgive me...lol  :-)

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               couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               That's ok.  I actually lost my noodle a long time ago.  I know it's around here somewhere.

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            xiuli80posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Deleted
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   couturepopcafeposted 13 years ago

   People living for, say 1000 years or more.  We would wait until about age 120 or so to get married, we would have several college degrees, have kids at about 250y, try everything we've ever wanted to experience, divorce at about 500y, start several new careers, meet up again with the love we first married and remarry at about age 750, decide that if we have ourselves cloned, we can raise ourselves as our own children then when we finally die, we can go right on living.

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      maybe you could write some futuristic novels?

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    In ref to my forum question: "What would be the acme of interminable human evolution," consider this:
    Once the "human" creature has evolved past the point of needing a "protoplasmic" mass to "perform," and it has evolved to the point of existing as "pure intelligent energy," it may deem itself free of the influences of the "natural universe!" it may ply the cosmos without external control, it can over billions of earth years...continue to embellish it's infinite knowledge ..it may meet and exchange informatiion and experiences with like intelligent super energies.....and this "evolution" would result in the realization of true "immortallity!"....and I am sure that a "timeless," "eternal," and "infinite" universe is rife with "intelligent energy," the acme of interminable "evolution!
    But I have to disagree with myself!
    Even at this point in our evolution, we'd continue to evolve.
    Qwark

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       Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Are you smoking something?
       
       What do you think is more likely; the existence of God or Qwark evolving into a non-material space god zooming about the cosmos exchanging muffin recipes with ET?

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          qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          hahaha...you are typical of the non-imaginative.
          ...appreciate your response tho.
          Have a great Sunday!

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             couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I think his answer was pretty imaginative in a crazy, comedic sort of way.

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       Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       See this is always where you lose me. As pure energy we'd merely be back to where we started. Your suggestion is that what has always existed in all of its varying forms from bubbling mud to wherever the heck it is that we're at now -talking heads I suppose- would suddenly cease to require matter, and yet not just bodiless but brainless, would retain all the knowledge.
       
       Pure bodiless intelligent energy. Gods, essentially. I forget, do we have creative power? Well godless or not, what you have just described is essentially a religion, drawn out over millions of years even as the genesis creation is said to be.
       
       God didn't create all life in seven days from the dirt. He started with dirt, more or less, and it was an eons-long week involving many, many, many different life forms.
       
       You suggest, essentially, that we attain our resurrection as bodiless, all-knowing, at peace in the sky spirits not upon our deaths individually as the religionists claim one way or another, but after the proper eons-long evolution into has taken place.
       
       Interesting religion. I mean it could just be a pet theory, if you didn't insult everyone who doesn't completely agree with you.
       
       I honestly don't know why I bother talking to you, except for that you bring up interesting topics from time to time (when you're not just baiting the christians) ((which is ironic, given your own dogmatic approach)).
       
       So tell me, what makes you think your fantasy is any more likely than their own, and admit it, don't you see the religious similarities and as Jerami pointed out possible tie-ins?

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          qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Anesidora.
          Your quote:
          "So tell me, what makes you think your fantasy is any more likely than their own?"
          Thanks for using the word 'fantasy." It makes my point, lucidly!
          Doesn't my question deal with imagination? I think I've made that perfectly clear...right?
          If I replace the word imagination with the word fantasy would that make more sense to ya...lets see, Create a fantasy that would be the acme of human evolution."
          I don't think that in any of my questions or replies I asked for backup or proofs, did I? Of course not.
          Those science fiction writers of yester year who "imagined," oooppss, "fantasized" man traveling in space were prophets! They couldn't prove that any of their wildest thoughts might become factual.
          Yesterdays science fiction is todays reality.
          I'm a sculptor. I create what I call "grotesqueries." I Imagine what I want to sculpt and then begin. As my "piece" evolves, my mind is imagining/fantasizing the finished work.
          Evolution is thoughtless but it chronically tries to improve it's work. It seeks perfection, which it cannot do, so, it continues on "interminably."
          If man succeeds as a species, and evolution seeks to perfect everything, why is it so difficult to imagine/fantasize the potential acme of man evolving sans a protoplasmic mass and having become naught but pure "intelligent energy?"
          I've written a "hub" about this which I'm sure you wouldn't read...lol (I'm not trying to tempt ya.)lol
          Fantasy/imagination, curiosity are the essence of the human animal.
          Unfortunately, we are much too incipient a species to be able to handle the uniquesness of "consciousness" at this moment in our evolution.
          We are not adapting, as nature requires, for our survival.
          Qwark

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             Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Not difficult to imagine in a fantasy sort of way that requires no rational basis. My bad, your question "What would be.." did not indicate pure fantasy, and your OP telling the religious to stay away since they had nothing credible to offer implied that you did.
             
             Obviously not.
             
             Plus I think you're getting senile. As I already told you I have read the hubs you referred to the last time you brought this topic up. Nice, but like this forum post only dealing with pure fantasy.
             
             Anyway, my bad. The way you're always baiting christians and ridiculing them their lack of rationale I thought you'd have more logic hidden behind your premises than they do.
             
             Whoops.

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                qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Anesidora:
                "Anyway, my bad. The way you're always baiting christians and ridiculing them their lack of rationale I thought you'd have more logic hidden behind your premises than they do."
                oh I do, but why waste it on those whose imaginations can't handle the possiblities that lie beyond the end of their pudgy noses? That would be foolish. Monotheists, ALL, fit into this category.
                I don't just "bait" christians Anesidora. My goodness, I thought you'd realize that by now.
                I've made it so obvious that I "bait" all monotheists.
                The "pure fantasies" you refer to  in my "hubs" are ALL founded, solidly, upon physics, cosmology, chemistry, anthropolgy, the history of life on this planet, cultures/societies, logic and reason etc., etc.. it's kinda enigmatic that you don't realize this!?
                I kinda get the notion that you aren't up to "snuff" on the aforementioned subjects. Am I right?
                Oh well, it is all "fantasy' we're chatting about. Can't get too passionate about fantasy.
                This "Senile' old fart loves to be challenged. I so rarely lose. If I do lose, I learn!...and I love to learn.
                So I must, sincerely, TY for your participation in "chat" that can go nowhere...lol...:-)
                Qwark        :-)

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       couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I think energy is pure intelligent energy.  Once we lose the meat suit, who's to say we don't do exactly what you suggested.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    couturepopcafe wrote:
    People living for, say 1000 years or more.  We would wait until about age 120 or so to get married, we would have several college degrees, have kids at about 250y, try everything we've ever wanted to experience,
    
    
        If that were possible to achieve would that not be regaining that which it is written that we once had? 
    
       What if that which we perceive as progress in one aspect of our lives is in reality regression concerning another?
    
       What if we are becoming more educated and yet getting dumber in other areas of using our brains?
        Ha guys and gals we are down to using only about 15% of our brains. 
       What's up with that?

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       Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       What if we are becoming more educated and yet getting dumber in other areas of using our brains?
       
       Quite possibly - my son is very intelligent, yet can be so "stupid" (he has Asperger's Syndrome, more noticeably than me). ie, he easily grasps intellectual concepts, but has a big tantrum nearly every night about having a shower and having to do other things he doesn't like to do (which is just a fact of life, unless a person managed to have everything handed to them on a platter all their lives).  Some things just don't "register". 
       I'm the most academic in my family; I'm also the least "practical" and not great with money (but at least I can change a lightbulb unlike a REALLY geeky flatmate I had once!)

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          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          What if this is becoming more and more the common thing in civilization today and in the future.
          
            I haven't been diagnosed with anything but from reading the symptoms I could have it and that stands true for many people that I know.
          
            What if that is the coming thing,

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             Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             well autism spectrum "disorders" (I hate how anything different from the "norm" is called a "disorder") are becoming more common.  Those with ASD have different brain "wiring" to be more focused on things and information rather than people. 
             It tends to run in families.  No-one knows what "causes" it - possibly sensitivity to environmental chemicals are at play?
             Some say it is really an extreme in temperament. Others say is is an evolved trait (I tend to agree).  A few hubbers have written about how they think autism is evolved.

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          couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          So what they're saying is that if a person is somewhat anti-social and has a focused intelligence or interest, they are considered to have a disorder?  Then I guess a large percentage of the population has a disorder.  But an extreme in temperment can be corrected with the proper nutrients, no?

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    Jaggedfrostposted 13 years ago

    You assume much in the concept of evolution but let us say that life is cyclical in nature.  Everything in nature revives a pattern that feeds back on itself.  The human cycle is no different. 
    You would think that any evolutions that we manage over that period of time would be efforts to improve or perfect that cycle.  If we allow for the fact that the future is the only unknowable, ours and the specific future of others then the interminable need to grow would be within the mind in the attempt to comprehend the human spirit and feed it more perfectly. 
    You would also say that it would be hoped that man and woman would perfect the ability to coexist without strife and the desire to take care of each other and their fellows in return.  If it were necessary for them to do this, then they would develop as a matter of course better capacities of both mind, body, and spirit to do so and an indifferences to needs and lusts that would detract from this purpose.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Jagged:
       I'm not thinking in terms of thousands of years. Move us ahead a couple million yrs of successful evolution. Keep in mind the words "acme" and "interminable."

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       Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Interesting thoughts. Life -or whatever force drives it- manifests itself as brain, at it's core. The brain is what is evolving, everything else is just there to aid it in its evolution.
       
       quoting you:  "the interminable need to grow would be within the mind in the attempt to comprehend the human spirit and feed it more perfectly."
       
       Interesting thought, and well put.

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          couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Mind - the final frontier.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    qwark wrote:
    In ref to my forum question: "What would be the acme of interminable human evolution," consider this:
    Once the "human" creature has evolved past the point of needing a "protoplasmic" mass to "perform," and it has evolved to the point of existing as "pure intelligent energy," it may deem itself free of the influences of the "natural universe!" it may ply the cosmos without external control, it can over billions of earth years...continue to embellish it's infinite knowledge ..it may meet and exchange informatiion and experiences with like intelligent super energies.....and this "evolution" would result in the realization of true "immortallity!"....and I am sure that a "timeless," "eternal," and "infinite" universe is rife with "intelligent energy," the acme of interminable "evolution!
    But I have to disagree with myself!
    Even at this point in our evolution, we'd continue to evolve.
    Qwark
    - - - - - - - -
    
       I think that this is the smartest thing that I have ever heard you say!!
    
      No kidding.
    
       That being said!!!   The universe has been here how many billions of years??
       You don't think that what you suggest in that post hasn't already happened someplace else in the cosmos??
    
       If it is possible for the future, it is possible to have already happened in our past.
    
       I think that you have just testified as to the true identity of God and where he came from.
    some place else in the universe. and from a different time.
    
       Very interesting.

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       Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It's Qwark's pet theory. I don't even hit the forums very often anymore, but Ive seen him post about this a couple of times. Always with no backing, with no rational explanation as to why this might occur, but a firm insistance that anyone who doesn't see the same imaginary firends he does must be too stupid.
       
       Creative? Imaginative? Super-intelligent foresight? Or just done 189 times in fiction novels already?
       
       And yes, as I told him before, the Mormons already beat him to this one as well. And he fiercely attacks all religion. Hah! Sounds like he's got his own!
       
       Is that the point here, Qwarky? To show religionists how very silly, presumptious and arrogant many of them sound? (Present company excluded of course.)
       
       OOOOhhhhhhh! Very clever then, Qwarky! Good job!

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          qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Anesidora:
          Naw! If ya can't visualize it for yourself there's no help for ya.
          Now lets get down to "nuts and bolts...ok?
          Your quote:
          "Always with no backing, with no rational explanation as to why this might occur."
          I've offered backing and rationality many times for you too read! I hate being redundant, so I won't.
          What "backing and rational explanation" would ya like?
          I've even written "hubs" with backing and rational thought provided in them.
          Now c'mon, what, specifically, am I not providing you with in my "stupid" comments and questions? I'd be glad to supply them.
          Is that fair?
          I don't, never have, attacked religion generically. I Attack self imposed ignorance and its relationship to monotheism specifically.
          I have never spoken to a believer in mythical gods who didn't think I was being presumtuous and arrogant...NEVER!
          LOL...So, coming from you, I am not surprised or bothered.
          Now list the things I haven't provided for ya.
          I'll bet ya won't do it! Are we on?
          Qwark    :-)

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             Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I'm not a believer in mythical gods. So who's being presumptious and arrogant?
             
             No, I've read your hubs (and many I like) but the ones you refer to never offer anything tangible. You just jump from okay we evolve to someday we therefore must evolve into immaterial intelligence, if we don't destroy ourselves first!
             
             There's an obvious leap in logic there!
             
             What makes you think life which has always required matter and has spent eons evolving very material brains would suddenly at some point no longer need matter, and yet retain intelligence?
             
             I mean hey okay, I'm fine with you holding on to that, if you like. It's quite imaginative. As a really good sci-fi writer though you'd have to provide a well thought-out explanation as to why this amazing and highly unlikely transformation would occur, and describe the new matter-less operating system on which we would run.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    Baileybear wrote 
    well autism spectrum "disorders" (I hate how anything different from the "norm" is called a "disorder") are becoming more common.
    - - - -
    
      I think you are right...  why do people think that evolution only travels in singularity.
      Some day what is now considered as "normal"  will be considered as abnormal.
    =================================================
    
    
    Baileybear  wrote   No-one knows what "causes" it - possibly sensitivity to environmental chemicals are at play?
    Some say it is really an extreme in temperament.
    
    - - - -
    
       I tend to agree...  Except for the  What causes it part.   
    We can try to pin point causes on single causes. 
    There are SSssoooo many contributing factors to for humanities conditions that it is mind boggling.
    
       Many times things are JUST the way that they are, and that is all the understanding that we are going to get.
       I think that "normal" is just another word for average.
       And nobody wants to be average;  or do they?

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       Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       agree

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    Jaggedfrostposted 13 years ago

    You assume quark that there is any end to the ability of one to perfect and enjoy the process of organizing life to our liking and the benefit of our progeny.  In the course of seven thousand years or recorded history through the various avenues man hasn't accomplished it.  Whats to say that it won't take millions of years.  You have way too much faith in the human character to think otherwise.  I am, however, in favor of Richard Bach in this secular discussion though.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Jagged;
       Gosh no! I never assume!
       I'm suggesting that evolution could take any species far beyond what the most successful species to date have experienced. Evolution is endless.
       The only real progress man has made in the past 7000 yrs has been made in the last 100.
       The next 100 (if we last that long) will amaze mankind. But ya have to remember that that would just be human "progress." It would have little to do with the evolution of our species. That is absolutely controlled by "environment."
       If, "contemporary man" could control his environment, he could speed up and control his evolution.
       The uniqueness of our consciousness would be even more greatly enhanced!
       The human species evolved very rapidly over the past 50k yrs. Regardless, man is a complex life form and to change his genetic program, noticeably,(if left to nature) would take many millenia.
       Ah, but if man can determine his future by utilizing his unlimited mental abilities, he will evolve much more rapidly. That is a given.
       This is an adventure in pure "idealism" because I, pessimistically, foresee a reduction in human population and a regression back to the stone age within the next 50 yrs.
       Thanks for the reply.   :-)

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    Anesidoraposted 13 years ago

    I gotta go, stuff to do, check in tomorrow afternoon sometime, in case you want to discuss and not just throw out dogmatic claims.

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    Jaggedfrostposted 13 years ago

    The only thing about pure intelligent energy is that it can't reason.  It never could.  It reacts instead of acting.  The whole reason for existence in the present sense is to teach reasoning and use of agency as well as the responsibilities  that on a secular level people call the law of Attraction.  In having a mortal, yet interminable stature as physical beings we have a certain mastery over energy in the raw sense.  There isn't a chance that we would ever go back to that state.  It would be a pointless regression.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Jagged:
       "The only thing about pure intelligent energy is that it can't reason.  It never could.  It reacts instead of acting." Are you saying it never could?
       Why not?

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          Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Reason can die off quickly and your knowledge has limits but your imagination does not.  It’s an act not of reason but of intuition.

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             qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Very true Castle.

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    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    I am just saying that if your scenario were to come true...  They would be doing a remake of the bible story and not know it ????????
    
       If time travel were to be found out to be true... That would answer all the biblical questions.
    
        I'm not saying that this could be true for mankind on this earth,  but for some other civilization type entities from a time millions of years ago?   Who  knows?
    
       I'm with ya  kinda.

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    Anesidoraposted 13 years ago

    Agreed, this is going nowhere. I fully confess to not having a deep knowledge in most of the topic areas you listed, I fully confess to being unfamiliar with all of the evidence you claim these studies offer to your man-will-become-spirit-geniuses-in-the-sky theory, and under my breath I fully confess a few other things about you as well.
    
    Whatever man. I'll leave you to your the-human-species-will-evolve-into-matter-less-omniscient-beings fun. Since you've got nothing worthwhile to say with which to back it up.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Anesidora:
       I've got volumes of info to back my hubs up and my "fantasys."
       But, by your own admission, you wouldn't "KNOW" what I'm typing about.
       Thanks tho for the fun!   :-)

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    Jaggedfrostposted 13 years ago

    To answer your question. energy or intellegence in its raw form or in other words the basic building blocks that make up this world and any other for that matter, exist according to their sphere to the end of serving the purposes of those with awareness. They have awareness and undestanding of the law of absolute retrobution.  They act and react according to those forms. There isn't a form  of spiritualism or religion that isn't based on the manipulation of this subject.  The fact that the voice of the interminable man overrules such things.

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    Ok, ok, I'm gonna give ya'll the answer.
    The "answer" lies in the wording.
    I used the word "interminable" purposely to see how many would read my question thoroughly, mull it over and come up with the correct answer.
    I even gave hints as I replied!
    If human evolution is interminable, there could not be an "acme" of "human evolution!"
    Evolution is "infinite."
    If man continued to exist, his "interminable evolution" would continue for as long as he existed.
    The "Acme" i.e. The highest point, as of achievement or development, would never be attained.
    Man, tho, would eventually, evolve out of a need for a protoplasmic mass to do his bidding...voila! Intelligent energy!
    It's been fun....:-)

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       Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Without using all of that intellectual terminology ...  can we just say that maybe we have already been there and done that!
       
         Simply put     some people agree that life is a continuous circle.  What goes around goes around. 
       
         There is nothing new under the sun. ?   ?    ?    ?
       
         I could go on but why?
       
         As king Solomon said  Life and everything in it is all vanity!   Eat drink and be merry.   He is said to be the wisest man to have ever existed!!??
       
         I think that when life is all over, we will know THE answer.
          Yep !  one answer is going to answer all questions.
         Talk about pure energy?    We will know about that too.
         Until then'   ..  the real answer would mess up the whole game that we are all playing.

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       Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       If you understood the continuum of consciousness between lives and were conscious that you took different bodies each time you incarnated then you could grasp intelligent energy as always having existed.   It's the awareness of it that's stunted.

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       Anesidoraposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Quark I said that 2 days ago on page one.

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    Jaggedfrostposted 13 years ago

    your funny.  I begin to understand Anesidora.  You are an interesting but ultimately infantile intellectual.  May you return to energy and your intelligence stop honoring your right to twist its purpose for your own amusement and  the belittlement of other points of view.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Aw jagged:
       Now yer angry with me 'cause ya didn't figure it out.
       But yer right when ya say I am an "infantile intellectual."
       I've mentioned this so many times in my writings i.e. we humans are an infantile bunch. We're in the playpen trying to make sense of all that surrounds us, and it ain't goin' too well!
       I am having fun playing with all the infantile "hubbers" who have joined me here in the "playpen." lol
       I have written a "hub" called "I AM the master of my fate" if ya read it, ya'd have an idea of what I think of myself...lol
       ...but jeez, it's against the rules to "tout" one of my hubs, so I won't. lolol
       But thanks for playing...:-)
       Qwark

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    The goal of evolution is not to become perfect, but to adequately exploit the current environment and thus leave offspring.  It is a process with no 'goal' and so no acme.

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       qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Psyche:
       The goal of evolution is the impossible i.e. "perfection."

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          Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Perfection is known as the Absolute or  brahman of Sanskrit texts, and to the ain sof of Kabbalah.  It refers to that which is totally unchanging, beyond forms, beyond duality, uncreated and eternally self-existent. 
          
          And it is the goal of the adept to reach this state however anyone who has achieved it has never come back to talk about it!
          
          The term 'relative' is used for anything that is not the Absolute. However, even though the Absolute is beyond anything relative, including all worlds and levels of duality, nothing relative can be beyond the Absolute. For if there existed anything beyond the Absolute, then the Absolute would no longer be Absolute!
          
          The Absolute, therefore, necessarily encompasses all relative levels.

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             qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Hi Jewel:
             Opinions are worth about a dime-a-dozen....:-)

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                Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Opinion?  Not really opinion.  The definition of Absolute v relative is pretty black and white.  The attempt to reach Nirvana  and the Absolute is commonly known, depending on your circle of influence and ability to read and also your ability to meditate beyond the level of relaxation!
                
                Any futuristic predictions as to how evolution will occur requires opinion. Even though there is a high probability we will not be the same as we are now in 50,000 years, not to mention 500,000 years from now.
                
                But as to grasping intelligent energy as you mentioned above, it's already known and doesn't require opinion.

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             Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I wish I were your neighbor.
             
                I'd convince you to let me study under you.

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                Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I believed you would enjoy it Jerami.

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                   Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I am sure that I would.   
                   
                      My imagination runs wild sometimes.
                      I think   that I have learned enough about life to know that nothing is as it seems.
                   
                      I think it all has something to do with perception.
                   
                     And most of us need to have our perception sent to the cleaners. 
                   
                     OK I'm not awake yet.  Gotta go outside and switch tools in the truck..  It is cold out side and that isn't just my perseption......  or is it?

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          psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Nope.  Evolution is random variation plus natural selection.  It has no sentience and no goal.

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             qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             ---we agree to disagree...:-)

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       Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       psycheskinner, that explanation of evolution is merely the animal's understanding of evolution - procreate or perish.  The concept of achieving perfection is not the goal of a cow.  But the goal of some humans far exceeds that of spreading their seeds.

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    Jaggedfrostposted 13 years ago

    hehe, lets introduce Quark to an original thought and chain him to it then he can have apoplexy.  Send him on his happy evolutionary path to sufficiency.  Maybe he will make it to interminable status... maybe reality will stamp acme on his behind and ask him if he is satisfied... some how I doubt he will make either status or be satisfied with anything....... screw it, lets throw this baby out with the bath water coming out of his pen that is... suck somewhere... anyway and be done.

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       Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       TRUE SAILING IS DEAD! What will you do, when the doors of perception close?

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