We've been here a 'blink-of-an-eye" in geologic time and are programmed, "CONSCIOUS," free-willed, predators.
Many species of life were/are controlled by instinct and learned behavior, still exist and have histories that predate the dinosaurs. They are considered "successful species."
Might the anomaly "consciousness," jeopardize the potential for we "humans" to become a successful species?
Your thoughts pls.
We are too large to be "successful" over the long haul.
Good point logic, we are a lot more frail and a huge target for all those clever minature life forms to attack and kill to their own ends, and when the planet gets a bit of a shaking or gets a surface puncture, we are sitting ducks because we build over and around dicey areas such as Cal, which may break off tomorrow.
watch out California, the end is tomarrow according to Earnest!..... "Just kidding"
lol...oops there goes San Fran!
I love California. Spent some time there both on the coast and inland. In many ways it is like Australia in places so I felt at home with the state and it's inhabitants.
Maybe science will find a way to shield cities from earthquakes.
As I mentioned on another thread just now, scientists have captured and held anti-matter.. for the second time, but this time they held it for an extended time which may throw light on the big bang theory and take science another giant leap forward.
A few years ago two Australian scientists unravelled the mystery of why we die and how it works.
The work took 9 years, and opens the potential to end death in mankind.
We now know that if we manage population growth correctly we will not overpopulate the earth..... forget religious myths, this is real and happening now!
Very interesting question.
We humanoid types aren't really known for survival of the species. I would have to say, that based off of our track record and our overused of our planets resources to support our lifestyles, we are destined to the same fate as the Neanderthals. Unless we make some serious changes, It would be my guess that if we manage to squeak out another 500 years, it would be nothing short of a "miracle"
Why do you think that?
I think you're being generous with the 500 yr survival.
If we make it another 75 yrs, I'll roll over in my grave for ya.
worms don't roll over qwark!
I think it is remarkable we have made it this far!
Mankind has always walked a very fine line.
Worms don't like formaldehyde! :
Besides, there won't be anyone left to give a damn...:
Hell we've only been tryin' for about 35 millenia!
God has always been with us Earn! Have faith brother!
Well my dear fellow non believer in the sky fairies, hell, heaven and brimstone self sacrifices, things are coming to a head.
Dozens of new roll-outs of shows on the history channel showing religious fraud, carbon dating, exray evidence will have it's toll on the tomes.
And all those TV documentaries with modern scientific methods being applied to religious history, the information that rolls out daily about religious scandals, shonky millionaire Televangelists, the scientific experiments on the god particle, capturing anti-matter etc. combined, will turn the wheel in my view.
Naturally some of the religiously impaired will always remain, but they're a dying breed!
Yeh Earn...IF (big IF)...we can make it past the next 50-75 yrs!
I can't visualize that happening.
Cags refers to me as the forever "pessimist." :
But, as "things" are unfolding concerning our "immature" species, I can't be "realistically" optimistic.
There is no doubt that "our" potential is unlimited.
One day, in the far distant future, a very different human species may evolve that can engineer an adaptive attitude and "survive" to become a wonderous form of life.
You and I, and our infantile ilk, will not even be a memory.
I took a science class awhile back...As one of the lessons we had to watch a movie called "Soylent Green" and discuss it.
Based off of our population growth, growing food shortages, enviromental changes, overused and non-replenishment of our natural resources, our tendancies towards violence (with the weapons we have at our disposal), we are heading down a path that can only lead to destruction by default. We are, it seems, a destructive species by default. We destroy one thing to create another, instead of using what is there in support of our livelihood. The "cut our nose off to spite our face" theory.
And you are correct with your timeframe...I was indeed being very generous.
I was a young man when "Soylent Green" was created, Saw the first run in a theater In Fla.!
Ya hit the nail on the head!
We are the only species of life that is hell bent upon our own demise!
Problem is in doing so, we'll take out a helluva lota life with us.
WE are truly "bad-apples!" :
One of the most successful species ever, are butterflies, which have been around for about 130 million years along with flowering plants. I think there's something kind of wonderful about that.
I might just go and write a little story about it. Tum tee tum.
I see in humanity much danger for self destruction.
But more importantly, I see in humanity much potential to be so much greater than we have been in our past. We, as a species, have such greatness within us, such ability and drive to excel and improve, I consider it only a matter of time before we correct our failures. When we do, we will become great, loving, creative, and inspirational creatures who go out into the universe and bring with us peace and understanding.
Yep we have so much potential...BUT...time and happenstance is against the possibility of us making it before experiencing a cataclysmic reduction in human population.
There isn't a doubt in my mind that once we have sublimated our genetically programmed need for the "kill," and replace it with a more social and civil attitude, the possibilities are endless in ref. to our capabilities!
WE have about 1 1/2 billion yrs to get it done.
Twixt then and now, evolution will have to be good to us.
We may learn to master and control "environment." If we do, we master and control our evolution!
WE can't do more than cross-our-fingers at this point in time.
I fear the die-is cast.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
What would make you think that "consciousness" was an anomaly?
As for your title's question- Can man become a successful species? I would have to say, Yes it can become a successful species, but there are way too many details to write in a forum post about it. Then again, there are too many details with regards to it, just a write hub or even 100 hubs on the topic.
G'mornin Cags :
Here's an example of why I can never finish reading one of your hubs.
"...with regards to it, just a write one or even 100 hubs on the topic."
I LIKE YOU AND YOU DO TRY, but my goodness, "just a write one?" I think you meant: "just write one or even...."
For years, I was a "proof reader" for a gov't agency. I'm so "anal" when it comes to the writing of others and mine. I'm programmed...but not perfect!
Yes, our level of consciousness IS an evolved anomaly i.e. a deviation or departure from the normal or common order, that make us unique amongst all life on this planet
Why do you think I asked this question...hmmm?
I want to read what others think!
I know the answers will be varied, complex and maybe confused, but I like to, occasionally, consider the "real world" with others who may have "opinions," thoughts, beliefs, that agree or differ from mine.
There, that should answer your "thoughtful" response...:
The coffee's good this morning! :
It was a mistake, which I am sure you do as well. So, it's not a problem with you being anal.
Normal or common order? Consciousness is part of the common order. To think it's something unique, in and of, itself is just a limited human response.
To show off your pessimistic train of thought.
I appreciate your candor.
I'm glad you're enjoying it.
yes it is my being anal! your hubs are rife with these kinds of mistakes. I'm just being bluntly honest. When I try to read them, my programming is "proof reading" and damnit...: I don't want to have to do that...anyway.................
"Normal or common order? Consciousness is part of the common order. To think it's something unique, in and of, itself is just a limited human response."
Yes. consciousness is part of the common order, but not at the level we experience it.
"Uniqueness" separates the common from the "special."
The level of "consciousness" WE possess is the anomaly that separates us from all life on the planet.
Hahaha...yep! I am a pessimist! I think I have reason to be that. Have you considered that maybe I'm trying, not to "show off," but maybe, hoping that someone may have a useful thought to consider? I'll never find out if I don't ask. Right? Of course I am. :
Now, do ya have a logical, well thought out answer to question?
Do ya think man'll make it?
Yes, on this planet, but not of everything in existence.
Reasoned by you. Then again, almost anyone can rationalize and reason, even the insane.
I'm sure you would like someone to provide you a thought to consider, but between your pessimistic outlook and your level of intelligence, I don't think you would be able to see beyond yourself long enough to consider it. I only say that because of past conversations with you.
Correct, but having the inability, as stated above, works against you, yet you don't see it.
Yes, simply because humankind's ability to integrate thoughts, knowledge and wisdom will overcome, any and all, obstacles.
Slurppp...coffee's good and hot! :
You are the "forever optimist!" :
I don't know "scat" about life on other planets. So we'll skip that reply.
Of course reasoned by me! Based upon the "knowledge" I've gained concerning the "reality" of mans prior and current activities.
if you can change my mind that man is not a predatory creature destined to commit universal genocide, by golly I'd like to read your logical and well reasoned response. Go for it. :
I'll tell ya what, you provide me with new and "factual" data concerning your optimism, and by golly we'll chat about it and who knows, if what your provide is contrary to my beliefs and backed up by science, logic, reason and proofs, watch how fast my mind will change...I dare ya! :
C'mon' Cags! Anyone who has an education, who keeps up with the times, who understands "basic" man and his history of predation, murder and torture et al, knows that man IS "insane" at this moment in his slow and tortuous maturation.
Even you can understand that. Right? :
When I ask questions, "expect" me to challenge your responses!
If you can produce that which isn't the trite "scat" that is offered by those who have been programmed by preconceived BS with only opinions which have no basis in truth/fact, yep, ya got it right! I won't see it!
Such as this:
"Yes, simply because humankind's ability to integrate thoughts, knowledge and wisdom will overcome, any and all, obstacles."
Back that comment up, logically and reasonably with empircal proofs and by golly I may become an optimist! :
Good chat Cags. :
No. There is no progressive change in nature except for the human capacity of progress. Humans will progress themselves right of existence. Someone cut down the last tree on Easter Island.
When you wrote this:
"Humans will progress themselves right of existence."
Did you mean that Humans will progress themselves right (out) of existence?
If your did, is it your "opinion" that "extinction" is our future?
If that is the case, why? We're a pretty viable species. Our history proves that.
I'm going grocery shopping. I'll be back in a couple hours. If you reply, I'll read and respond.
I would say that man is already the most successful species in the planet's history, and possibly in the entire universe. But, this is our problem, we have now become victims of our own success, as has the rest of life on this planet. We are destroying nature at an alarming speed, and will I believe eventually destroy ourselves. The planet would have been much better off, if we had remained swinging from the trees, rather than cutting them down,
We are not even at the top of the food chain.
Maybe we differ in our definition of "successful."
I'm not considering success as being concerned with our accomplishments due to our evolved anomaly i.e. a big conscious brain.
I'm thinking of success as the ability to adapt and species longevity.
Will we be just another species that appears, can't adapt as nature requires and become but another of inumerable species that appeared and shortly disappeared.
An example of what I consider a successful species is the shark or crocodile. They predated the dinosaurs and are still here and adapting as evolution requires.
Man has already adapted to many different environments. We can live in tropical heat or arctic cold. We can swim in the oceans and fly through the air. Because of our inventiveness, we create anything that we need for survival. Sharks or crocodiles cannot do this. Now, we have progressed so far, that rather than needing to adapt to our environment, we adapt the environment to our needs, and in so doing are making species extinct. This adaptation of the planet is destroying whole ecosystems, and will tip the balance of the earth, making it impossible for life to exist.
Ya've got it!
Man has been 'adapting for only about 4 million yrs! That's a drop in the bucket of geologic time.
Man is not adapting but not well and yes, jeopardizing all life.
He is trying to adapt "nature" to himself and in so doing, he may be writing his obituary.
Man has been a very adaptable, and inventive creature because of "evolving" the height of awareness he 'enjoys."
Unfortunately for "him," at this moment in his evolution, he cannot engineer his environment to control his evolution.
He knows that evolution is determined by "environment" but isn't paying much attention to one of Mother Natures major fiats i.e. If ya wanna survive, ADAPT and keep the "balance."
Watch his activities all over the planet. He has divorced himself from the natural balance of life and may "tip the balance of the earth, making it impossible for life to exist."
I doubt that he will become extinct, but he will reduce his numbers to a sustainable level and will, most likely, metamorphose into a human creature we would not recognize today.
Sharks or crocodiles are slaves to their environments, but, they will adapt if their environment demands it. They'll do it by the processes of "natural selection."
They haven't changed because they are wonderfully and successfully suited to their natural environments.
Thanks for the thoughtful response...:
Unfortunately this little planet will shrug us off like dandruff any old time, so to succeed as a species for any amount of time, we need to learn from bacteria and adapt.
"Did you mean that Humans will progress themselves right (out) of existence?" No not completely. There would be survivors.
They are creating super-viruses immune to
antibiotics by over medicating factory farm
animals and then using the fecal waste
containing these new super bugs for fertilizer. But some humans will not be susceptible to these new viruses.
"But back to my question, will man make it and become a "successful" species such as the shark, crocs and dinosaurs?" These are not progressive. They last forever because they do not evolve. Species must conform to the environment. Now that humans are changing the environment, will anything be able to adapt fast enough?
Ah but you are wrong.
Evolution is an eternal process. As long as there is life and environments that are never static, life, that at the moment seems to have adapted so well that it will no longer be involved in the processes of evolution and natural selection, WILL, attempt to adapt, if and when their environments change.
No life is immune from the processes of evolution.
We humans are changing the environments of all life on this planet.
Micro life will adapt rapidly.
Macro, complex life? big question mark.
Complex life evolves at a tortuously slow rate before noticeable changes take place.
I think that man may change the environment for all life so rapidly that only a well organized and executed plan may save mankind, but much of complex life will be eliminated.
Micro, simple life, will be effected but will continue to exist and flourish.
A man created nuclear holocaust could rapidly change the environment for all life on this planet.
It seems to be inevitable.
...gotta couple pretty good responses on this one, but I really don't think that there are many out there who have contemplated the future of we humans 'cause they're just too busy livin' it up day to day.
Why are there so few of us who consider these kinds of subjects?
I think I expressed it pretty well in my "profile:" I am alone!
Small creatures have survived over the millienia. Can't think of any large ones. Nature has taken some radical turns and the smaller survive the extremes better.
Very true, the small may not be dependant on us, but we are dependant on them.
A year or so ago, honey bees were dying off in North America at a tremendous rate. Farmers had to buy bees in order to have crops.
Our CSIRO (a world renown research facility) noted at the time that man would run out of food very quickly without bees.
That is just one of thousands of other things that must remain within known and sometimes fine boundaries to ensure we can even remain alive,
I think that for man to develop to the next stage of evolution, he needs to develop the mind. Physically, we have evolved over the past few millions of years. This includes the development of the brain. However, psychologically, I believe we are still the same creatures we were a million years ago. Our inventions may have transformed the planet, but this is because one invention leads to another, and the more that is invented, the quicker will be the next invention. This does not indicate that the mind is evolving, simply that a considerable passage of time has existed in which society has developed. Deep down though, as a species, we are still mentally quite primitive. How many in our advanced society still refuse to walk under a ladder for example. Logic and reason have still some way to go to replace emotion and instinct.
The "first rung" of the evolutionary ladder is 1 (0ne.)
We still exist at 0 (zero.)
I've said this before: We are an infant species laying in the crib trying to make sense of all that surrounds us and as we "squirm and kick" we inadvertantly beat the "crap" out of anything that exists in our sphere-of-influence.
We will have reached the first rung of the evolutionary ladder when we have gotten our "college degree" and understand the definition of "reality," then act responsibly, in concert, to insure our viability as a species!
That level of evolution will remain out of reach for a few more millenia.
We must first, survive the potential, cataclysmic catastrophe that is imminent.
There have been at least five mass extinctions in the history of life on earth, and four in the last 3.5 billion years in which many species have disappeared in a relatively short period of geological time.
We may be the perpetrator of the 6th!
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