Our rights do not come from the Constitution; even our founders knew that. The founders derived their belief in rights from a belief in a Creator. Our rights are given to us by the Creator, they are given to all humans equally, and they are unalienable.
So, in writing the Bill of Rights, the early congressmen were protecting the people from the federal government controlling religion, press, militias, etc. At the time, the Constitution was not controlling of the states doing or not doing those things; it really dealt with the federal government.
When we understand that our freedoms do not come from a document written a few hundred years ago, we are truly liberated. So Obama, using the Constitution in a way that it was not intended, when he stands up for individual's rights to not be stepped on by the states is standing up for something the writer's of the Constitution should have stood up for but could not due to the political environment they were living in.
At this point, it does not matter if a right is granted to us in the Constitution or not. It matters if it is a right given to us by the Creator. An atheist would have to develop another sort of foundation to build their rights on (I would love to hear some.) No individual should have their right to worship God infringed upon unless they are expressing their right in such a way that it infringes on others rights.
This post is in response to my reading of an old thread, but hubpages suggested that I should not resurrect it. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/50974
You are correct sir! But even atheists have those rights and can claim them on the bassis of natural law which applies to all life on the planet.
God is not the source of anything , because of the fact that He doesn't exist, therefore we should understand that the rights you refer to are guaranteed by man(government), and only if that government can provide you with a good common defense and civil rights.
Why did God not grant the Native Americans their inalienable rights? I think you get the picture.
I think many people forget that at the time that the Constitution was written, most people thought that some king or emperor was the one who controlled their way of life and what our Constitution was advocating was that men have inalienable rights that government cannot take from them. It is interesting that the practice of slavery, so contrary to the Consitution's basis, was something that had to be worked around in order for the document to pass acceptance by the majority of state reps. They knew that when they passed it, that slavery was going to have to be dealt with and would end badly. It's what makes that part of American history so fascinating for me.
Rights come from being born. End of story.
The USA has been running their constitution all along rfor 200 years without the word God in it. It show we do need Government and can live without Religion
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Well Kirsten ... that's a whole lotta good stuff you just posted there. Now I just gotta find me some slaves and non-believers to buy up and abuse
Which kinda makes you wonder what folks were thinking when they delivered the constitution. I hope they weren't going off the good book ...
When you posted Kirsten, it did make me think about how come anyone can buy into that? You can't change the words they are what they are. And so - there's no chance I'll ever be convinced that the bible wasn't written by the minds of men that wanted to A) control the masses and B) set themselves up to live as they pleased.
It's frightening that anyone can read those passages and declare - 'these are God's words' and believe them.
I have heard so many arguments to preserve this sense that the bible is written by God or inspired by God and the arguments just do not change those verses from the bible. Those verses make it very easy for me to understand why some atheists feel the anger they feel toward religion, those verses are simply evil, and they are found in a Holy Book? That I just don't get.
If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
The above was decreed by God? Really. And I'm told that it's all about love?
Maybe modern believers have become selective about that which they take their teachings from. And if so ... then I would ask 'if you can choose the text you wish to believe, how then can you validate the whole? You can not simply take a part of something and declare it the truth'
When you start subtracting from a whole - it loses its original value. Pure math
My question is, if you are selective about which teachings to accept how to make that decision? I could always select those bits that mean I can take slaves then! I mean I would love to live the lazy life and profit off of other peoples labor, call it my own and be blessed by God for it! I think a court of law wouldn't give a damn that I was blessed to do so by this or that passage from the bible tho Too bad too, guess I will have to go back to working for myself then
Ohhhh that's the easy part Kirsten. You simply pick and choose from the best pits, the text that works best with your lifestyle, your ideals and so on. You then go off and quote them ad infinatum, leaving out the nastiness, the parts of the text you'd rather no one knew about - in case someone asked questions you couldn't adequately answer.
I was of the opinion that the bible was a whole though? Or so you'd believe from what gets bandied around in this forum?
I am still waiting for someone to come along and justify, er I mean explain those horrid passages.
As you appear far more knowledgeable than I in matters relating to the Good Book (or not so good) then why not start a thread about the very thing you wonder on. Me too. I'm doing some wondering.
We agree that a whole is a whole and a half is but half - yes?
@ wilderness - I submit to no man. We work together or there is no 'we'
Ohhh the book of frog! Where can I get a copy?!?!
Oh it does *nods*
@ Kirsten ... It is currently undergoing an overhaul* I shall be publishing it at a spoutlet near you soon
In the meantime - here's a few commandments to keep you going. Only a few mind. I'm a Benevolent Frog. i.e. I'm busy being busy doing busy stuff.
Thou Shalt Not Squeal. For it is unnecessary (though in pain, surprise and shock will be forgiven).
Thou shalt have no other Frogs before me. Period.
Thou shalt not bear false Christmas against thy neighbor. One a year is enough. Two creates disharmony. Three a war.
*I'm tweaking it up. Some of the stuff is no longer ... usable. Therefore I'm making it up as I go along.
What do you say, oh froggy one, to the french who eat of thy legs?
To those that consume of the Legs of Frog I say - spit it out. That's damn nasty.
Not to mention painful and requiring of the death of said frog. Otherwise I shall decree the eating of undesirable foods for all.
And I shall be sure to include nasties such as tree bark, sea weed aplenty and cotton chewing.
I may at some point try to put together a well thought out and cogent forum post, but I would want to make sure I made my question crystal clear, no room for religious propaganda as the answer, but real answers instead. It would probably sink like lead in preference for the same old same old tho
Yet many gospels were omitted from the bible for some reason
I guess the gospel of Mary didn't have good passages to allow for people to justify their selfish life choices. Or any of the other omitted books.
Mary was only a woman - such lower classes are not to be awarded the same rights. Don't forget that women must submit to their husbands instead of making their own decisions.
Besides, if we allow women any power over others who knows where it might go? If we respect the thoughts and wisdom of women it could conceivably affect the power base of the bible writers someday! No, better to completely disregard what women have to say and bury their false wisdom far away from right-thinking men. Better safe than sorry!
Is that why so few people seem to listen to me? Cause I am a woman?
Daily, I could save my hubby much time and stress if only he actually listened to me! *shakes head*
That's it, Kirsten, in a nutshell. Women are so incredibly inferior (plumbing so defective they have to actually sit!) that men are bound to not listen. They cannot listen, for to do so might contaminate or change their ignorance.
So they leave out the book of Mary and ignore kirstenblog.
It would be horrible to change the ignorance of men!
They might forget how to use the member where their brains are really stored!
Oh, I don't know. They are not supposed to use that member anyway, unless producing more ignorant men from their subjugated wife or more women to cook and clean.
Plus, they can always just buy more slaves from the foreigners living amongst them instead of waiting years for infants to develop.
There are only two god given rights - the right to take whatever you have the strength to take and the right to give up what other, stronger, people can force you to give up.
All other rights come from man, primarily through government of some kind. Even those rights originating from religion come from government as religion is a form of government to those subjugated by the priesthood.
True statement.... All else are privileges that also can be taken as quickly as they were given.
Two more rights.
To Feel; and
the right to breath till we quit.
I don't know about the right to breathe - just ask all the first born (Egyptians?) that lost that right because they kept a few slaves.
And most feelings (lust for your neighbor for instance) are also forbidden by God. Man allows it, but not God.
Well they took the wrong kinds of slaves, obviously
Ya missed the part that said; till ya quit QUIT breathing.
And Ya still got the right to feel, even of the stuff in which you speak..... Ya might get a spanking for it, ... But ya still got the right to do it.
The Source of Our Rights
What is the source of our obligations? I think it is related with the source of rights.
When people read from the bible and the discussion talks about slaves and masters from my prospective I believe God is dealing with us (mankind) at the ignorance level we are at- trying to tell someone something they just is not going to understand would be useless in the same way we can't tell a baby boy to start acting like an adult.
Which is silly, considering the nature of Creator and mankind. The Six Realities man was given full dominion over contradict those presented written the text of Torah and correspondences deemed New Testament. Are those writings placed there for man to realize this lacking intellectual mentality, as well as, spiritual neglect. Indeed so.
Yet still one persists on stealing --yes, stealing-- another Testimony, having none of their own while the other disputes a Testimony they have no desire to apply/ascertain or otherwise.
The foolishness of mans "thinking"...
It is absurd for an adult to have such shallow thinking.
So God allows evil to continue to placate the ignorant then?
That is what I am getting from your comment.
This God we are supposed to be talking about, you know, the all powerful deity who can do ANYTHING (thats how the story goes anyway). Anything but tell us to stop being dicks to each other I guess.
When a nonbeliever can demonstrate something more then opinion they are doing the very thing they acuse believers of doing-Nothing!
Everyone speaks of these God given "RIGHTS" as expressed in the U.S. constitution.
Where are these "RIGHTS" spoken of is scripture?
I can't think of one!
SO!, it seems to me that our rights are no more than an agreement that Government has entered into with those living under its jurisdiction. They are also subject to change and/or termination.
So it seems as though our rights are a figment of our imaginations.
Yes, that is what they seem to be arguing.
Let me attempt to address this issue about the source of inalienable rights. The right to life is mentioned as "thou shalt not kill. The word kill refers to murder. The New Testament condemns murder in the Gospels. The right to liberty is indirectly implied in the scriptures because God desires a relationship that is not coerced but it is by our own free will. God always gave man a free choice to accept or reject Him. This freedom existed back in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve given a choice of whether to eat the forbidden fruit. The right to not be defrauded is addressed in the biblical command not to steal which is also found in the new testament. There are another 3 or 4 inalienable rights mentioned in the Constitution but I'll start with these. Hope this helps.
By the way I will tell a child to stop being hurtful to another child, with no hesitation and with a strong seriousness intended to instil a little fear
I just don't think God would shy away from making it clear that Rape and Slavery are WRONG IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES REGARDLESS, no matter the age of mankind. You don't not tell small children not to touch hot stoves just cause they are young.
The Source of Our Rights
The sources of our rights stem for the social history of every country; these should be the same as envisaged in the Word of the Creator-God known as Quran.
It is amazing how some people try to use the Constitution as though it is some holy decree. It is not the Bible, but rules established by people of that time, subject to change and growth as we move forward in time.
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