This is only a forum to vomit your refuse, as no one will listen to you in the real world.
Amazing. Just, simply amazing.
It's almost so amazing, that I forgot I was in a religious forum, where religious believer is attempting to mock those who don't believe and on top of that, trying to spew out nonsense, and lies, like it was truth.
Ever since I was a kid, I may have not been a popular individual, but did have many friends, one who do and did listen when I talked. People constantly read my hubs and are impacted positively, even if they have religious beliefs.
Those who truly understand their religious beliefs, actually have no problem reading my hubs and actually grasp the message available.
It's a shame that all the religious believers who are on Hubpages, can do is spout off the same conjecture, displayed in a 2000 year old book, supposedly written by the people who others claim wrote them to begin with.
I find this thread, to be funny, sad, ironic and many other attributes I could name, but would probably get banned for, so I'll refrain. Enjoy.
Cags, give some of us more credit than that at least. There are some believers (like me) who are much more interested in actual discourse than the stupidity that others spew.
More often than not, and yes there are some exceptions, a religious person has to resort to conjecture to make their point, instead of using simple reasoning.
It always goes back to the basic of the original indoctrination, which has engulfed 80%+ of those who are of or hold a religious belief. They use the bible to prove itself, just as every other religion in the world does.
Bunches upon bunches of mystics have joined the ranks of HP, which isn't helping either, because each of them brings dishonesty to the table. Not a shred of honesty among the lot.
Not to mention, as I have said before and will again- spirituality for the human species is love and that's it. No other form of spirituality is actually required. This is evidence from the love I feel, not only for myself, but for the entire human species. I have even reached a point where I do not require love from anyone at all, for me to fulfill my purpose in my life. Knowledge and Wisdom the only way to go.
That's a very fair statement. I just think it should be acknowledged that there are those of us who don't necessarily try to sell our speculative faith as fact, which makes us highly unpopular in the forums, not only to atheists who demand the "facts," but to the the fundies who get pissed at us because we won't support their biblical arguments as "fact." I can't sell my faith (nor do I try to) to anyone as fact, because I acknowledge that I can't prove it.
In the beginning, I would get very frustrated talking with you - until I started actually LISTENING to you. Then, I began to enjoy discourse with you - and several others here at HubPages who don't share my belief.
What matters most to me is that I truly believe YOU are a good person. That is ultimately the goal for all of us.
I understand where you're coming from with the above. However, I have said this before and I'll be glad to say it again- the only faith required in life, is in oneself and others. You cannot expect to better yourself, when you place your faith in something which you cannot prove not only to yourself, but to others as well. It's a fundamental flaw in the inter-connectivity of communications between each person.
Good to know, you are listening. It's a start. Listening is the key to learning.
That is kind of you to say and that is the kind of faith I am talking about. No other faith(other than in self) is actually needed.
The only thing about this is that I have been able to prove it for myself because of personal experience. Trying to prove it to someone else scientifically is beyond my ability, and so it remains speculative in the grand scheme of things. There have to have been experiences that only YOU have had, and are unable to explain to others...right?
I understand it is a personal experience, but if your knowledge of the language prevents you from communicating the experience in detail, because it rips apart reality as it's known or borderlines on mysticism, then you shouldn't even be having conversation with regards to it in the first place. It just feeds the confusion, others purposely create, so people cannot understand their own life.
Proving it to others is in how you communicate the experience. If it shatters the knowledge already knowable to humankind, then just maybe, you are attributing it improperly? Just a thought.
I guess that would depend on what you mean? Like, what type of experiences?
Have I had dreams that actually come true? What made them come true? Was it a god guiding me?
If that type of experience, then yes I have had dreams come true. Plenty of them, which is how I learned about my capability for insight.
I understand exactly what you're saying...and I think that the majority of the reason that I keep them to myself is because it is something that language does restrict me from being able to explain it. That said, I can't help but believe in mystical experiences because I have had them. Or perhaps, as you say, I've simply had experiences that have sharpened my insight and allowed me to become better that I've not attributed to my own insight.
Food for thought for sure.
Cagsil- I have enjoyed reading this discussion. I appreciate your opinion. I think respecting even the differences in others is important. Even if I don't agree, I may still learn something from you and others. I am not "religious". I am a Christian. This does not make me or anyone else perfect or better than others. It only means I am forgiven. I do and say wrong everyday. We all do. The proof for me is a new born baby - it is a miracle that one sperm out of millions can create life. Proof is the stories from those who were diseased and given a month to live......when they go back for testing the doctor can't find anything wrong with them. Proof for me is being able to look back on my life thus far and see the footsteps He has laid out for me. More proof - compassion, forgiveness, humility,love, humor, a smile, a soft breeze, a rainbow, my family, and getting to speak to you. Proof for me is our differences and the ability to look past them, appreciate them for what they are, and still respect the person. Thanks for listening.
Okay, let's clear up on thing- people express several things (a)beliefs(which I don't share with people online), (b)opinions, (c)facts(knowledge) and (d)truth(discerned wisdom). So please try not to be so narrow in focus.
Respect? Sorry, since we live in duality, that singular word has more than one aspect and you are only using in one aspect.
The only thing you have to do is learn how to accept other people. You will find it works better.
I have to say, I was enjoying your post until I reached the above statement- being "Christian" is being "religious". Anyone claiming it is not is either (a) lying to themselves and others or (b)just too ignorant to know the difference.
That much you have correct.
Actually, it doesn't mean that at all. You've just convinced yourself of the meaning.
You apparently are limited in thought. It's not a miracle, but is how the human productive system actually works. It is amazing yes, but no stretch of the imagination is it a miracle.
Again, UNTRUE. You are attributing something that they human mind and body accomplish to something unknown. That's not proof by any understanding of the word. But, nice try.
It is a sad day when people give credit to something unknown for their own actions. Again, not proof. You are just attributing to something else instead of giving yourself credit. That is what makes it sad.
Your alive, your were born, you grew up, you learned(what exactly I am not sure of yet, but I am giving you credit for it) and you're here. No more proof.
Actually I've had lot's of real world discussions about religion, atheism, belief and non-belief. So yes, people will listen to us in the real world.
By the way if you think there is something wrong with atheist arguments why not attempt to rebut them with a well-reasoned response instead of insulting people. Hell you can even insult people WHILE making a good argument if you want. Anything's better than just being a jerk about it.
Just for clarification- how does one insult someone and not be a jerk?
Perhaps I worded it poorly
It would be hard to insult someone without being a jerk. The key is to insult the idea not the individual. So poking fun at an absurd creationist argument but avoiding ad hominem attacks on the individual making the argument.
True, but to be insulted one must ALLOW that to happen!
To be "insulted" is a choice.
I will not allow anyone to insult me. I always consider the source and chuckle at the attemp.
The one who is trying to insult someone, definitely, is the "JERK!"
If the attempt to insult is successful, then BOTH are "jerks."
Hey Qwark, did you forget you are slightly above the average intelligence compared to the average person?
Are you trying to insult me?
BUT, Cags, there are many who would debate you on that response!
As a believer, I find this statement to be fairly combative and distasteful - and cold-hearted. There are many of us willing to listen to atheists and agnostics, not only here, but in the "real world" as well. It's a pity that you aren't one of them.
It appears to me that there are believers that do their fair share of regurgitating. I'm not at all sure why, instead of sharing a thought, some believers find it necessary to post a page of scripture. If they don't want to think for themselves, what's the point?
If you see an opposing view during discussion and debate as vomiting refuse, you've already stopped thinking also. Why are you even on the forum? A Hub, without a comments section might suit your purposes better.
Sorry to hear that. I had no idea that was your reason for signing up here. Interesting.
Are you angry because you have lost EVERY debate that you have had with the non-believers so far?
As I've witnessed, you were like a preschooler trying to argue with a physicist.
You should change your beliefs...because they have failed you, and made you very miserable and angry.
getitrite You would like to think so ...but think again.You have a long way to go even to get where i am.That is...if you are speaking to me.
We all have a long way to get where you are.
It must be wonderful to be you. I feel sure others will so thrilled when you reveal your specialness.
You and god are a pair eh? You seem to share the same megalomania.
Those that know me know that I am who i am and I don't have to prove who I am in order to be who I am.The matter shall speak for itself.
I don't know if i should Thank you,... or send you to your room.Your confirmation is worth consideration.So i will wait for your next comment before I decide which.
Earnest, you are being unkind to His Deluded Holiness. May I join you?
I have only managed to decipher a little of what has been said.
I need all the help I can get with that!
Oh I understood it well. He is what he is and what he is is special and superior. Simple complex really, but that might be natural for God's right hand bud.
I have not been able to recognise if he has a superiority complex, or an inferiority complex bolstered by a false sense of self worth.
I feel confident it is one or the other though.
I give you permission to explain a little more.
No I was not speaking to you, but the same statement applies to you as well. You are no match for the free thinkers on this forum. It is sad that the only thing you have is this delusional belief that somehow an imaginary nonsensical being makes you superior. Sad.
Now......you are much further behind than you was before you responded.You should have stayed where you was.You said i have lost every debate on this forum.Nothing is lost yet.It is not over until it is over.So don't smile just yet.
Whether you accept defeat or not does not mean you haven't been defeated. Your claims are absurd, you have no credibility, your worldview is based in religious psychosis, and you show signs of a serious disconnect from even the other delusional believers.
But keep telling yourself that you are a winner...if that helps with the superman complex. More power to you.
One thing I know,is that,you don't have enough knowledge to challenge my intellect of spiritual existence.
I have to go to bed now.
But thanks for giving me a good laugh before I go to sleep.
You will be the same when you wake up.All you are doing is prolonging the agony.
I thought heaven bound top the charts, maybe I am wrong, this guy add more passion toward crushing the earth and most of it’s people.
Perhaps, but certainly enough knowledge to challenge the existence of anything spiritual. Your intellect is not required for such a challenge.
Everyone is not suppose to believe.Everything is as it was predestine to be.
Of course it is to you,but not to those that know better.
Know better? Now, that's a real joke. You never told me you were a comic.
There is a lot of things that you don't know about me.
I am sure. There is also a remote chance that if I did learn more about you, I would still find you funny.
Well, I guess that would mean you don't get out much and if you do, then you don't actually talk to too many people.
Does that mean you already know.....or should I tell you?
Apparently you haven't quite grasped the "needs" of the human individual. It's sad really. However, to answer your question- No to both. I have no need to know, so you don't have to tell me. Secondly, what I know already is actually a need for you, but not that you would understand, which is okay. I don't feel the need to be the one to tell you.
You don't know what is real,and what is false,so you don't matter,if you had been where i have been,your words might have substance.But since you have not...all you are doing is blowing wind.
Seeker.....you know about as much as where I have been as you do about spiritual knowledge,very little or nothing,I can almost say...you don't exist.
I believe. I believe you are alienating those who might even seek to believe.
Perhaps this is so, but, the non-believers that this post refers to do a much better job of doing that!
If this forum were left to the real discussion about religion, spirituality and faith, AND kept it civil in the process (which is HUGE ask), then those "seekers" just may have a place to learn more.
Sadly, that's a dream that will most likely not be realised in reality. In fact, Id venture to say there is 110% chance it will NEVER happen. The only way it could, would be if all posts were moderated. But that runs the risk of censorship, so, we are right back where we started.
Frank....whoever come is suppose to come,and those that don't are doing what they suppose to do.Everyone is not suppose to be save nor believe in God.That is why there is a heaven and a hell.
I have to say that nobody can fault the size of your ego! Why on earth would any god predestine some of his creation to not believe and therefore go straight to hell? It is totally illogical as well as cruel, and I assume that you presume that you have a one way ticket to heaven?
Mind you, if that's the kind of god that you want to believe in, I think that I'd be more comfortable in hell anyway - more my kind of people! LOL!
Concerning my ego....it is call CONFIDENCE.Let me say that we all have a chance and opportunity,no one is excluded.
CHOICE come by the amount of knowledge,and the source of the knowledge gathered whether or not you make a positive or negative CHOICE
So don't blame it on the rain.
And to your last question I tell you this by confirmation:YES,my name is written in the Lambs Book of life that I may have a place reserve for me at the table of "The marriage Supper of the Lamb".
Good luck with that! Did you buy your book on Amazon?
That would have solved the problem of getting your name in the book!
You are also dogmatically religious, Jack. Although the above statement does suggest that you are either schizo, or last you commented to me, your meds hadn't been adjusted yet. Strange mix of possible irreverance, mixed with self righteousness.
Your choice.Everyone was not meant to go to heaven nor believe in God.So it is as it should be.
This statement is a contradiction.
How can anyone really have a choice if everything is already predestined?
This is complete childish nonsense...very unstable.
I respect your right to believe anything you want, but please, keep this BS to yourself. This is PURE garbage.
Gee lately, you are sounding less religious than before
I would use a different word to describe your claims.
It is what it is.That is the habit of the world which is to make it look good on the out side....above the inside. Make a flip-flop of that and that is where I am.
This forum is for religion and philosophy, including atheist philosophies. It would be nice if people behaved like good guests in HubPage's house--and behaved with courtesy to everyone they have invited inside.
Gee, I do feel better now
...me too...Go Canucks Go!...gonna watch the series?
I know what I just did was not tasteful, yet to hold such religious sickness in for so long a time, can be harmful to my spiritual sided self
Now Sports!!!! Is something dose bring all races, cultures and people of every kind from every part of the world together in friendship most often.
Can Boston defense hold off Vancouver's offence is a better question than when is the World going to End
I see all the non believers have took to this thread like a fish to water nice work Seeker of Truth.
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