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Non-believers

  1. profile image48
    SEEKER OF TRUTH57posted 6 years ago

    This is only a forum to vomit your refuse, as no one will listen to you in the real world.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Amazing. Just, simply amazing.

      It's almost so amazing, that I forgot I was in a religious forum, where religious believer is attempting to mock those who don't believe and on top of that, trying to spew out nonsense, and lies, like it was truth.

      Ever since I was a kid, I may have not been a popular individual, but did have many friends, one who do and did listen when I talked. People constantly read my hubs and are impacted positively, even if they have religious beliefs.

      Those who truly understand their religious beliefs, actually have no problem reading my hubs and actually grasp the message available.

      It's a shame that all the religious believers who are on Hubpages, can do is spout off the same conjecture, displayed in a 2000 year old book, supposedly written by the people who others claim wrote them to begin with.

      I find this thread, to be funny, sad, ironic and many other attributes I could name, but would probably get banned for, so I'll refrain. Enjoy.

      1. profile image0
        Motown2Chitownposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Cags, give some of us more credit than that at least.  There are some believers (like me) who are much more interested in actual discourse than the stupidity that others spew.

        smile

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Hey Motown,

          More often than not, and yes there are some exceptions, a religious person has to resort to conjecture to make their point, instead of using simple reasoning.

          It always goes back to the basic of the original indoctrination, which has engulfed 80%+ of those who are of or hold a religious belief. They use the bible to prove itself, just as every other religion in the world does.

          Bunches upon bunches of mystics have joined the ranks of HP, which isn't helping either, because each of them brings dishonesty to the table. Not a shred of honesty among the lot.

          Not to mention, as I have said before and will again- spirituality for the human species is love and that's it. No other form of spirituality is actually required. This is evidence from the love I feel, not only for myself, but for the entire human species. I have even reached a point where I do not require love from anyone at all, for me to fulfill my purpose in my life. wink Knowledge and Wisdom the only way to go.

          1. profile image0
            Motown2Chitownposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That's a very fair statement.  I just think it should be acknowledged that there are those of us who don't necessarily try to sell our speculative faith as fact, which makes us highly unpopular in the forums, not only to atheists who demand the "facts," but to the the fundies who get pissed at us because we won't support their biblical arguments as "fact."  I can't sell my faith (nor do I try to) to anyone as fact, because I acknowledge that I can't prove it. 

            In the beginning, I would get very frustrated talking with you - until I started actually LISTENING to you.  Then, I began to enjoy discourse with you - and several others here at HubPages who don't share my belief. 

            What matters most to me is that I truly believe YOU are a good person.  That is ultimately the goal for all of us.

            1. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              I understand where you're coming from with the above. However, I have said this before and I'll be glad to say it again- the only faith required in life, is in oneself and others. You cannot expect to better yourself, when you place your faith in something which you cannot prove not only to yourself, but to others as well. It's a fundamental flaw in the inter-connectivity of communications between each person.
              Good to know, you are listening. It's a start. wink Listening is the key to learning. wink
              That is kind of you to say and that is the kind of faith I am talking about. No other faith(other than in self) is actually needed. wink

              1. profile image0
                Motown2Chitownposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                The only thing about this is that I have been able to prove it for myself because of personal experience.  Trying to prove it to someone else scientifically is beyond my ability, and so it remains speculative in the grand scheme of things.  There have to have been experiences that only YOU have had, and are unable to explain to others...right?

                smile

                1. Cagsil profile image60
                  Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I understand it is a personal experience, but if your knowledge of the language prevents you from communicating the experience in detail, because it rips apart reality as it's known or borderlines on mysticism, then you shouldn't even be having conversation with regards to it in the first place. It just feeds the confusion, others purposely create, so people cannot understand their own life.
                  Proving it to others is in how you communicate the experience. If it shatters the knowledge already knowable to humankind, then just maybe, you are attributing it improperly? Just a thought.
                  I guess that would depend on what you mean? Like, what type of experiences?

                  Have I had dreams that actually come true? What made them come true? Was it a god guiding me?

                  If that type of experience, then yes I have had dreams come true. Plenty of them, which is how I learned about my capability for insight. wink

                  1. profile image0
                    Motown2Chitownposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I understand exactly what you're saying...and I think that the majority of the reason that I keep them to myself is because it is something that language does restrict me from being able to explain it.  That said, I can't help but believe in mystical experiences because I have had them.  Or perhaps, as you say, I've simply had experiences that have sharpened my insight and allowed me to become better that I've not attributed to my own insight. 

                    Food for thought for sure.

      2. profile image50
        my3tydahuposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Cagsil- I have enjoyed reading this discussion.  I appreciate your opinion.  I think respecting even the differences in others is important.  Even if I don't agree, I may still learn something from you and others.  I am not "religious". I am a Christian.  This does not make me or anyone else perfect or better than others. It only means I am forgiven.  I do and say wrong everyday. We all do.  The proof for me is a new born baby - it is a miracle that one sperm out of millions can create life.  Proof is the stories from those who were diseased and given a month to live......when they go back for testing the doctor can't find anything wrong with them.  Proof for me is being able to look back on my life thus far and see the footsteps He has laid out for me.  More proof - compassion, forgiveness, humility,love, humor, a smile, a soft breeze, a rainbow, my family, and getting to speak to you.  Proof for me is our differences and the ability to look past them, appreciate them for what they are, and still respect the person.  Thanks for listening.

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Okay, let's clear up on thing- people express several things (a)beliefs(which I don't share with people online), (b)opinions, (c)facts(knowledge) and (d)truth(discerned wisdom). So please try not to be so narrow in focus.

          Respect? Sorry, since we live in duality, that singular word has more than one aspect and you are only using in one aspect.

          The only thing you have to do is learn how to accept other people. You will find it works better.

          I have to say, I was enjoying your post until I reached the above statement- being "Christian" is being "religious". Anyone claiming it is not is either (a) lying to themselves and others or (b)just too ignorant to know the difference.

          That much you have correct.

          Actually, it doesn't mean that at all. You've just convinced yourself of the meaning.

          You apparently are limited in thought. It's not a miracle, but is how the human productive system actually works. It is amazing yes, but no stretch of the imagination is it a miracle.

          Again, UNTRUE. You are attributing something that they human mind and body accomplish to something unknown. That's not proof by any understanding of the word. But, nice try.

          It is a sad day when people give credit to something unknown for their own actions. Again, not proof. You are just attributing to something else instead of giving yourself credit. That is what makes it sad.

          Your alive, your were born, you grew up, you learned(what exactly I am not sure of yet, but I am giving you credit for it) and you're here. No more proof.

    2. Titen-Sxull profile image90
      Titen-Sxullposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Actually I've had lot's of real world discussions about religion, atheism, belief and non-belief. So yes, people will listen to us in the real world.

      By the way if you think there is something wrong with atheist arguments why not attempt to rebut them with a well-reasoned response instead of insulting people. Hell you can even insult people WHILE making a good argument if you want. Anything's better than just being a jerk about it.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Hey Titan,

        Just for clarification- how does one insult someone and not be a jerk?

        1. Titen-Sxull profile image90
          Titen-Sxullposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Perhaps I worded it poorly lol

          It would be hard to insult someone without being a jerk. The key is to insult the idea not the individual. So poking fun at an absurd creationist argument but avoiding ad hominem attacks on the individual making the argument.

        2. qwark profile image60
          qwarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Cags:
          True, but to be insulted one must ALLOW that to happen!
          To be "insulted" is a choice.
          I will not allow anyone to insult me. I always consider the source and chuckle at the attemp.
          The one who is trying to insult someone, definitely, is the "JERK!"
          If the attempt to insult is successful, then BOTH are "jerks."
          Qwark

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Hey Qwark, did you forget you are slightly above the average intelligence compared to the average person? lol lol lol

            1. qwark profile image60
              qwarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              Cags:

              Are you trying to insult me?   lol

              BUT, Cags, there are many who would debate you on that response!lol

              Qwark

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Well, there isn't doubt on that. For sure. tongue lol

                1. qwark profile image60
                  qwarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  tongue lol

    3. profile image0
      Motown2Chitownposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      As a believer, I find this statement to be fairly combative and distasteful - and cold-hearted.  There are many of us willing to listen to atheists and agnostics, not only here, but in the "real world" as well.  It's a pity that you aren't one of them.

    4. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      It appears to me that there are believers that do their fair share of regurgitating. I'm not at all sure why, instead of sharing a thought, some believers find it necessary to post a page of scripture. If they don't want to think for themselves, what's the point?

      If you see  an opposing view during discussion and debate as vomiting refuse, you've already stopped thinking also. Why are you even on the  forum? A Hub, without a comments section might suit your purposes better.

    5. Beelzedad profile image56
      Beelzedadposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry to hear that. I had no idea that was your reason for signing up here. Interesting. smile

    6. getitrite profile image78
      getitriteposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Are you angry because you have lost EVERY debate that you have had with the non-believers so far?

      As I've witnessed, you were like a preschooler trying to argue with a physicist.

      You should change your beliefs...because they have failed you, and made you very miserable and angry.

      1. Apostle Jack profile image59
        Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        getitrite You would like to think so ...but think again.You have a long way to go even to get where i am.That is...if you are speaking to me.

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          We all have a long way to get where you are.



          Fortunately. smile

          1. Apostle Jack profile image59
            Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That is correct.

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              It must be wonderful to be you. I feel sure others will so thrilled when you reveal your specialness. smile

              You and god are a pair eh? You seem to share the same megalomania.

              1. Apostle Jack profile image59
                Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                Those that know me know that I am who i am and I don't have to prove who I am in order to be who I am.The matter shall speak for itself.

                1. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  It does, it does! lol

                  1. Apostle Jack profile image59
                    Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I don't know if i should Thank you,... or send you to your room.Your confirmation is worth consideration.So i will wait for your next comment before I decide which.

                2. earnestshub profile image87
                  earnestshubposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  It has! lol

                  1. wilderness profile image98
                    wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    Earnest, you are being unkind to His Deluded Holiness.  May I join you?

                  2. Apostle Jack profile image59
                    Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I give you permission to explain a little more.

        2. getitrite profile image78
          getitriteposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          No I was not speaking to you, but the same statement applies to you as well.  You are no match for the free thinkers on this forum.  It is sad that the only thing you have is this delusional belief that somehow an imaginary nonsensical being makes you superior.  Sad.

          1. Apostle Jack profile image59
            Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Now......you are much further behind than you was before you responded.You should have stayed where you was.You said i have lost every debate on this forum.Nothing is lost yet.It is not over until it is over.So don't smile just yet.

            1. getitrite profile image78
              getitriteposted 6 years agoin reply to this



              Whether you accept defeat or not does not mean you haven't been defeated.  Your claims are absurd, you have no credibility, your worldview is based in religious psychosis, and you show signs of a serious disconnect from even the other delusional believers. 

              But keep telling yourself that you are a winner...if that helps with the superman complex.  More power to you.

              1. Apostle Jack profile image59
                Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                One thing I know,is that,you don't have enough knowledge to challenge my intellect of spiritual existence.

                1. getitrite profile image78
                  getitriteposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I have to go to bed now.
                  But thanks for giving me a good laugh before I go to sleep.
                  lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

                  1. Apostle Jack profile image59
                    Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    You will be the same when you wake up.All you are doing is prolonging the agony.

                  2. Castlepaloma profile image77
                    Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I thought heaven bound top the charts, maybe I am wrong, this guy add more passion toward crushing the earth and most of it’s people.

                2. Beelzedad profile image56
                  Beelzedadposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Perhaps, but certainly enough knowledge to challenge the existence of anything spiritual. Your intellect is not required for such a challenge. smile

                  1. Apostle Jack profile image59
                    Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    How do you know,when you can't define or know what intellect is?

    7. Apostle Jack profile image59
      Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Everyone is not suppose to believe.Everything is as it was predestine to be.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Predestined? WOW! Talk about BS! lol

        1. Apostle Jack profile image59
          Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Of course it is to you,but not to those that know better.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Know better? Now, that's a real joke. You never told me you were a comic. lol lol

            1. Apostle Jack profile image59
              Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              There is a lot of things that you don't know about me.

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                I am sure. There is also a remote chance that if I did learn more about you, I would still find you funny. wink

                1. Apostle Jack profile image59
                  Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  You would be one of the few that do.

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    Well, I guess that would mean you don't get out much and if you do, then you don't actually talk to too many people. lol

    8. Apostle Jack profile image59
      Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      You don't know what is real,and what is false,so you don't matter,if you had been where i have been,your words might have substance.But since you have not...all you are doing is blowing wind.

    9. Apostle Jack profile image59
      Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Seeker.....you know about as much as where I have been as you do about spiritual knowledge,very little or nothing,I can almost say...you don't exist.

  2. Rochelle Frank profile image96
    Rochelle Frankposted 6 years ago

    I believe. I believe you are alienating those who might even seek to believe.

    1. aka-dj profile image76
      aka-djposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Perhaps this is so, but, the non-believers that this post refers to do a much better job of doing that!

      If this forum were left to the real discussion about religion, spirituality and faith, AND kept it civil in the process (which is HUGE ask), then those "seekers" just may have a place to learn more.

      Sadly, that's a dream that will most likely not be realised in reality. In fact, Id venture to say there is 110% chance it will NEVER happen. The only way it could, would be if all posts were moderated. But that runs the risk of censorship, so, we are right back where we started.

      1. Rochelle Frank profile image96
        Rochelle Frankposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Fair enough--- but if you tell them they are "vomiting refuse", they are not likely to be at all attracted to your message.

    2. Apostle Jack profile image59
      Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Frank....whoever come is suppose to come,and those that don't are doing what they suppose to do.Everyone is not suppose to be save nor believe in God.That is why there is a heaven and a hell.

      1. CMHypno profile image96
        CMHypnoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        I have to say that nobody can fault the size of your ego!  Why on earth would any god predestine some of his creation to not believe and therefore go straight to hell? It is totally illogical as well as cruel, and I assume that you presume that you have a one way ticket to heaven?

        Mind you, if that's the kind of god that you want to believe in, I think that I'd be more comfortable in hell anyway - more my kind of people! LOL!

        1. Apostle Jack profile image59
          Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          Concerning my ego....it is call CONFIDENCE.Let me say that we all have a chance and opportunity,no one is excluded.
          CHOICE come by the amount of knowledge,and the source of the knowledge gathered whether or not you make a positive or negative CHOICE
          So don't blame it on the rain.

          And to your last question I tell you this by confirmation:YES,my name is written in the Lambs Book of life that I may have a place reserve for me at the table of "The marriage Supper of the Lamb".

          1. CMHypno profile image96
            CMHypnoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Good luck with that! big_smile   Did you buy your book on Amazon?

            1. Apostle Jack profile image59
              Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

              NO .........I am the writer of the book.

              1. earnestshub profile image87
                earnestshubposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                That would have solved the problem of getting your name in the book! lol lol lol

                1. Apostle Jack profile image59
                  Apostle Jackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I am SPIRITUALITY..

                  1. Druid Dude profile image58
                    Druid Dudeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    You are also dogmatically religious, Jack. Although the above statement does suggest that you are either schizo, or last you commented to me, your meds hadn't been adjusted yet. Strange mix of possible irreverance, mixed with self righteousness.

                  2. earnestshub profile image87
                    earnestshubposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                    I would use a different word to describe your claims. smile

  3. psycheskinner profile image83
    psycheskinnerposted 6 years ago

    This forum is for religion and philosophy, including atheist philosophies. It would be nice if people behaved like good guests in HubPage's house--and behaved with courtesy to everyone they have invited inside.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image77
      Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      bllaaahhh blllaahhh

      Gee, I do feel better now

      1. SomewayOuttaHere profile image61
        SomewayOuttaHereposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        ...me too...Go Canucks Go!...gonna watch the series?

        1. Castlepaloma profile image77
          Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          I know what I just did was not tasteful, yet to hold such religious sickness in for so long a time, can be harmful to my spiritual sided self

          SomewayOuttaHere
          Now Sports!!!!  Is something dose bring all races, cultures and people of every kind from every part of the world together in friendship most often.

          Can Boston defense hold off Vancouver's offence is a better question than when is the World going to End

  4. Diane Inside profile image81
    Diane Insideposted 6 years ago

    I see all the non believers have took to this thread like a fish to water nice work  Seeker of Truth.

    1. Woman Of Courage profile image62
      Woman Of Courageposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Diane, You are right.

 
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