The Believing Brain

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   Beelzedadposted 13 years ago

   The Believing Brain : From Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies---How We Construct Beliefs and Reinforce Them as Truths ~ by Michael Shermer
   
   "Shermer outlines the numerous cognitive tools our brains engage to reinforce our beliefs as truths.
   
   Interlaced with his theory of belief, Shermer provides countless real-world examples of how this process operates, from politics, economics, and religion to conspiracy theories, the supernatural, and the paranormal. Ultimately, he demonstrates why science is the best tool ever devised to determine whether or not a belief matches reality."
   
   If anyone has read this book, please provide some comments. Thanks.
   
   

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Not much to say about this.
      
      I would guess Shermer has most of it right. I have not read The believing brain, but have a fair idea of how he thinks after reading one of his other books. "Why people believe weird things" a few years back.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Kewl, thanks Earn.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      did he mention that he too is victom of this human tendency of which he speaks?
      
         Thereby making his opinion as deluded as everyone elses.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You didn't read the bold type, did you, Jerami?

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't read it, but it sounds interesting.  I'm curious as to how people come to believe what they do

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Wrong knowledge.The brain is matter and it have no spiritual function such as belief when belief is a decision of the intellect which is spiritual?Keep it in your memory that we have 2 bodies,and not just one.

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I checked by counting the number of legs my trousers have, and I seem to only have the two legs and no other body.
         
         I will check the stock in the local Salvation Army store today and count all their religious pants legs to ensure I'm right. I'll get back to you OK?

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            dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            lolol...Earnest!

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If you already knew.....there would have been no need for my coming.

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               There is a need for your coming?

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It is PREDESTINE,....you are included anyway.It cannot be prevented,hindered,nor coped.You cannot squeeze out of this one.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     So you are our new messiah! Good for you! I know a local guy who is the King of England. Some fools locked him up. Do you know him?

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I thought you at lease know what one and one is equal to.....but you don't even know that .I see you now as extra baggage.

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                           earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           See that's the type of statement I am talking about. Total nonsense.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Like i just said,you are just extra baggage with nothing of value in the bags.

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                                 earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 You know what Jack? You're right. I am extra baggage for you.
                                 
                                 So is reality.

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                           heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Apostle Jack-
                           
                           Romans 2:1 --You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
                           James 2:13-- because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
                           
                           A word fitly spoken [is like] apples of gold in pictures of silver.-Prov 25:11
                           A man finds joy in giving an apt reply--and how good is a timely word!- Prov 15:23
                           
                           Matthew 12:33--"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.
                           John 15:4-Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
                           
                           Gal 5:14--For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                           
                           15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
                           
                           16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
                           
                           17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
                           
                           18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
                           
                           19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
                           
                           20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
                           
                           21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
                           
                           22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
                           
                           23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
                           
                           24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
                           
                           25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
                           
                           26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
                           
                           Luke 6:37
                           [Judging Others] [6:37-42pp -- Mt 7:1-5] "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              So are you saying that I should not separate good from evil,or right from wrong?You are judging me now by your view of what judgment is to get me to see it your way.It is PRE-jUDGMENT  that is the wrong type of judgment,to condemn some one BEFORE anything is said or done.If you don't know right from wrong....then your children won't either.

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                                 heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Gal 3:3--Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
                                 
                                 We are supposed to make sure that we line up to what the bible says on how to act in love- calling names isn't part of it.  Now if the bible says we are acting like a fool than God's word judges us as that- it is different than me calling you a fool or extra baggage.
                                 There is such a thing as unrighteous- fleshly judgement and righteous judgement- one wants to honor God-the other does what there flesh feels and lashes out.
                                 The bible says we can judge them by there fruits not eternal destination.
                                 After all it is the love of God that draws all men to him.
                                 Jesus never called the lady caught in adultery names but told her her sins are forgiven sin no more.
                                 We are to tell of God's forgiveness and mercy and love as the number one goal. If we do not love than we are not doing the work of God.
                                 Yes if you are claiming God I can correct you by sharing scriptures, not my personal opinion. I don't give my personal opinion because I would get into the flesh and that wouldn't prosper either of us.
                                 We speak to edify( to instruct or benefit) not tear down.
                                 God bless you!

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Predestine? There isn't anything that is predestined. Absolutely nothing.
                     You claim to have intelligence, yet you cannot see outside the wet paper bag you seem to have locked yourself into.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You don't even know what Predestination is,so your comment don't hold any water.Everything was meant to be in this world,that is predestination.I talk to a 3 year old child once and he knew and understood.But you say nothing in this world is predestine.Every school that you have attended,and all the books you have read,have left you in the cold because you think everything here is by chance and nothing on purpose.Now that is really dumb,and dumber than everything that is dumb in this world.

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                           Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I understand the word. It might be YOU who don't understand it, but have created your own definition for the word.
                           Predestination is a claim that everything was actually planned by a specific set of actions by a specific source or sources. The fact that you're insinuating it, shows you lack understanding. It plays into "Intelligent Design".
                           
                           You're too funny.
                           This statement shows more about you than you want, but I don't expect you to understand to begin with.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              You don't have enough knowledge to challenge a true messenger of God.Until now you have only came across bad seed in the world.But all the apples in the barrel did not go bad.

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                                 Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 You mean, I don't have enough knowledge to deal with a delusional individual who believes HE is a true messenger of a fictional god. And, you would be wrong, but that wouldn't be anything new.
                                 Actually, I've come across, smart, much more brighter individual than you. I wouldn't expect you to admit being wrong. Your ego wouldn't be able to handle it.
                                 That would be the first thing I would agree with. Not all are bad, just the ones that are delusional, like yourself.

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                           lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Apostle Jack, the notion of predestination is a misinterpretation of the Bible by the protestant Calvin. It is in direct opposition to the belief that we have free will in this world. Christ came to save all sinners, not just the chosen few.

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                              earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Yep! He was even gonna save me, a mere Australian at one time. Not so sure now but.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              In the words of Christ.....the gate is narrow...and Few there be that shall find it. Eph 1 v 11 we are predestine
                              According to the increase...CHOICE..is a free will, regardless of what happens in this world we will always have a  CHOICE.
                              You say it is in direct opposition of free will....how so?

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                              jacharlessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Agreed. Predestination itself is not incorrect, but the interpolation of the truth behind it. The predict: is/was all men to be restored and the truth revealed, unhindered. This is exemplified by that "narrowness". It does not suggest not all can enter, it explains how the process happens. It is not to say, even though narrow, only a few can achieve the restored stasis of Free Will (Grace).
                              
                              Unfortunately, doctrines, like A. Jack and others, attach a selective groupie idea to it. Ironically, if their concept were  even remotely true, then literally NONE of them were selected, as only 144k from specifically the twelve tribes of Israel were selected, at the resurrection event.
                              
                              Regardless of their argument, choice is a product of free will. Have said this many times: if one still needs to choose or make a choice, they void Free Will; live as a bastardized entity, until the hope of that choice completes their self imposed predestination : death. Sort of like pretending to be 'godly' without a shred of evidence --beyond memorized words- to prove it.
                              
                              What A Jack and others forget: the letter (of the written text, law) is death, it kills all men; but the spirit IS [the] Life.
                              
                              
                              
                              James.

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                                 lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks James. I think you put it better than I could.
                                 Lizzie

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      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am trying to overcome my believing brain, stuffed with all the Old Catholic crapola!

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         Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         mine was stuffed with pentecostal christianity crapola!

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If you believe that the brain can talk,....then you believe that walls can talk too.

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         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I have to ask... Do you read or understand anything that has been said here?
         ...or do you just say the first unrelated thing that enters your head?

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Only certain ones can hear me,....you are too far away.

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Well no one here seems to know what you are on about. Ever considered that may be about you and not them?

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So what.I am not trying to prove anything,i am just here to deliver a message.So if you believe or not,that, is your problem.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     That's the thing right there... I don't have a problem!

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        That is the problem.......you are in denial ...you are perfect.Everyones fault but yours,yours work better than anyones......and you say that you don't have a problem?

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                           Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           hark who's talking

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                           earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I believe you have the problem of trying to flog a dead horse.
                           
                           
                           I recommend that others take a look at your profile and decide for themselves who has a problem.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              It matters mot....my identity is within me.When you go there be sure and take a shovel with you ,,,,,because you might to dig a little bit.

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                                 earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I agree. The shovel is a great idea!
                                 
                                 Are you playing straight man for me?

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, Australia is a long way from Georgia. I will write louder OK?

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes..............like spirituality is from science.Like your knowledge is from mine.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You can say that again! ;lol:

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         Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I can't believe you have over 300 followers

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            We grow as we know,and show as we go.We are as efficient in doing whatever it is in life that we want to do as we are ready and prepared to do so.

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I just saw your profile. I now understand what the problem is.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  We will see.

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                  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  What's sad is that some naive, weak-minded people will believe, and follow this @#$!%.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Ya reckon?
                     They'd have to set new records for gullibility.

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                        getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        It's gonna be hard to beat Westboro Baptist and Harold Camping's followers.

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                           earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I know, but this cat is in a class of his own.

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                           Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           there's several on HP that seem to think they are prophets

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                     Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I read a few & couldn't make head or tail of it - the believers were lapping it up

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                        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Are you sure they were people? If so that is downright scary!

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                        getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        UNBELIEVABLE!  I read some too.  The poems were somewhat comprehensible, but the Philosophy was truly TWISTED.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Where in the OP does it say anything about brains talking?

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If you believe that all communication and thoughts come from the brain,that is like  believing that walls could talk,seeing that they are both material and have no spiritual qualities.

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               getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               OK Jack, I'm now going to ask you for proof that all thoughts and communication do not come from the brain.
               
               If you can't prove that assertion, then, you will have no basis for your argument, and no right to belittle the hubbers who don't believe you.
               
               Doesn't that sound fair?  So, please, show us the light!

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't have to prove to you that i am who i am in order to be who i am.
                  I am a Celestial Spirit,that is unknown to your spirit,but is live before you is proof for many.The brain cannot and do not produce what is spiritual.Such as personality,and intelligence.So there are SEPARATE definitions that must be applied.A brain cannot speak so we are speaking from another source.
                  I don't know what proof you are looking for,but most people can look around them and see God everywhere,and then,...some can't see the forest for the trees.Personal experience is a mighty thing.It give one CONFIDENCE above and beyond personal opinions.
                  Thoughts and communication is a spiritual concept the brain have no capability to produce insight nor speech.It was design for a physical purpose to regulate the cells atoms and ,elements of the flesh.SCIENTIST did not and do not understand SPIRITUALITY so they put everything in one basket,and left half the tale untold.I am just here to tell the tale that should have been told long ago.

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                     getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Jack could you stick to what I have requested of you, and stop creating strawmen?  Thanks
                     
                     
                     
                     Jack, you are gonna have to prove this TOO.
                     
                     
                     
                     Can you even validate that there is such a phenomenon as SPIRITUAL?
                     
                     
                     
                     Jack, please show irrefutible proof of this other source that you reference.  Thanks.
                     
                     
                     
                     Jack, where is your integrity?  The only proof that anyone needs is REAL proof.  Would you not agree?
                     
                     
                     
                     That is delusional...and has nothing at all to do with REAL proof.  Tell me why this fact eludes you...and try to be honest, Jack.
                     
                     
                     
                     Jack, you have provided neither FOREST nor TREES, so now what?
                     
                     
                     
                     For the deluded mind, personal experiences can be a dangerous thing...as the experience can become distorted.  Correct?
                     
                     
                     
                     Jack, did you even attend school as a youth?
                     
                     The Broca region of the human brain has functions linked to speech.  It is located in the Frontal Lobe.  See illustration.
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     Who would have thought that you could come along, and just erase years of painstaking scientific discoveries, just because you believe in an ancient psychotic book, about primitive nonsense? 
                     
                     Please explain how this could possibly NOT be delusional, and I will convert immediately.  Thanks

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Put a brain on the table...and ask it to say something.You might stand there and wait for it to talk back ,but not intelligent people.As i have said to you i don't have to prove it your way in order for me  and others to know.You are just one of those that will missed out.
                        My education is from above,yours is from beneath.You are showing me something that you yourself cannot explain.I know about 2 bodies,you only know about one.I know spirit and flesh.How can the brain produce intelligence,personality,and speech?Explain the process.

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                           recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           The ideas you put into words have to be the most disturbed weird sh!t on hubpages, you should seriously go get medical help bro !

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              They said that to all the great thinkers,inventors,and philosophers. I am glad to be among the few.

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                                 recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 No bud - you are not among the few.  You are only among the few who refuse to take their meds. Delusions of grandeur, Napoleon complex and believing you are chosen of your god is a typical reaction.  Seriously bro - go back on your meds and go back to your shrink, I bear you no ill will of any kind and have friends in the same situation who thank me for driving them to the place.

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                           getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Jack, you have not validated anything that I have asked you to, but still you persist in asserting your insane beliefs.
                           
                           I have now grown tired of this childish stupidity.
                           
                           These irrelevant, silly retorts show nothing but an extreme lack of EDUCATION.
                           
                           The disregard for the intelligence of the other debaters, shows a lack of decency, respect, and maturity.
                           
                           The inability to validate any of these propositions shows a complete lack of credibility, a complete disconnect from reality, and an irresistible propensity for shameless dishonesty.
                           
                           I have had my fun with you, now I will take my leave.
                           
                           Good-day, Apostle Jack
                           
                           You have no credibility--NONE!

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              You miss the boat anyway.So it is just as well that you go away.You brought with you nothing at all.So it don't matter.

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                                 getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 

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                           Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           if you put a decapitated head on the table it won't talk either.  Such nonsense you spout

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              But the spirit within the body still have a head.It can exist without the physical body.It can speak, think, see,hear and make choices. i WOULD TELL YOU MORE BUT I WILL SAVE IT FOR LATTER.

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                                 Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 A decapitated head no longer has a body.  Which part does the spirit live in?  How much can one amputate before cutting off the spirit?
                                 If you are hearing spirits talking, you need to quit drinking spirits and see a shrink

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You are caught between a rock and a hard place.You have the picture,but cannot explain it.

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                     secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     "A brain cannot speak so we are speaking from another source."
                     
                     Yes that source is called the voice box, mouth and tongue.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        The voice box do not create words nor form ideas voice and sound is spiritual.The flesh itself is not speaking it is coming from the spiritual body.

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                           secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Incorrect. The voice box, mouth and tongue do create words. That's why a person without them or with them injured cannot make words as easily, even if their brain is normal.
                           
                           Sound is not spiritual, it is the physical movement of particles--whether through air, liquid or solid.
                           
                           The mouth/ tongue/ voice box do not create ideas, ideas are created by electrical impulses in the brain.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              How is th word.How is the word.Saying it is one thing,,,explaining it is another.Sound is invisible,and all invisible things are spiritual.It is just like the wind you cannot see it...you can only see the effects of it.
                              
                              What cells or atoms of the body produces electric?There is no account for that theory nor can it be explain according to the brain.

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                                 secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Haha, you need to study some science.
                                 
                                 Try some human anatomy, biology, physics and chemistry. Also biochemistry will have plenty of info for you on how electricity is produced by the chemicals and cells of the body.

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               Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               If you believe god is in everything and that communication and thoughts come from your god, then you MUST believe walls can talk.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  SUPERNATURALLY...THEY CAN.Commonly it is imposable.There is no IF in what i say.I speak knowledge...and not theory and assumptions.

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                     recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Go get help bro - get back on the meds man !

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You are too far back to catch up.I am afraid that the train will leave without you.Of course you was not on the list to go anyway,so you can stop wasting your breath.

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                           heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           1 John 3:10 --This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
                           1 John 4:7 -Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
                           1 John 4:16 -And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              That is true beyond a doubt that is even more reveal in 1 Cor 13th chapter about what love is.So we are on the same page concerning love.
                              I carry the torch.

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                     Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     *backs away slowly trying not to make eye contact*
                     
                     Okee dokee.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Its a long story.Eye contact would scare you,and up set your memory and cause you to see more than you see now.But change is not for everyone.You are lift out for a reason.You are an Atheist and none-believer.

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                           Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Really? Seems it is you who is seeing more than there is now. I can only see the apple.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I know this:Many individuals have experience an existence beyond personal opinions,hear-say,theories and assumptions that make proof to be confirm concerning a higher power.You are left out for a reason ..and that is a fact.

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                                 Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 And, I will remain forever grateful of that fact. Straight jackets never did fit me very well and they have yet to come out with one that has a top hat and tails.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              One bird in the hand....is worth a million in the bush,or an apple either one.

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                                 Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I can see birds and bushes, too. So, where is your god?

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am just a messenger.If one believe or disbelieve its their choice.After i deliver the message my duty is complete.It is then between you and whatever god you serve or don't serve.

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         getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sounds exactly like Chicken Little.
         
         
         
         

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Somethings are many things to many people.

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         heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Apostle Jack-
         You keep saying you are just a messenger. Here are some bible scriptures to to read & think about.
         
         Acts 10:36
         You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
         
         Romans 10:17
         Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ
         
         2 Corinthians 5:19-
         that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
         
         Titus 1:9
         He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
         
         God bless you

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Very well said.I just speak His words and let the chips fall where they may.But i try to do it with grace...and His words to my spirit that is GIVEN THEREOF  ....is NONE NEGOTIABLE.

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      ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Oh you mean the bigot anti-semite editor of  SKEPTIC .
      
      http://www.codoh.com/viewpoints/vprwshermer.html
      
      He has a point ya, if you're a bigot anti-semite.

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         Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Some people have to take the long way around in order to get to a short distance.Those are the ones that come in a day late and a dollar short.

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            ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Wow, that's very profound for an insult! I mean way deep.

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               bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               you go girl! its not really Jack's fault you know. he is just a coward.

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                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I feel pretty sure he's not Noel Coward.

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                     bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     now thats funny!!!  you see Jack, we all love a good joke. don't you?

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                     bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     now that's funny! you see Jack, we all like a good joke, don't you?

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                        bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        oh did i say that out loud? twice. man I really did didn't I. Jack is still a coward though!!!

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                           earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Keep verwy verwy quiet! I think I saw a wabbit! Very slow around here. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't care for jokes.Natural humor is fine.That which is made up to be funny only makes one look ignorant .

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                           bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           you are saying that the humor that G-d gave us inside of free will is making us ignorant. Jack you need to stop all of this nonsense, and give yourself a break. dude life is not that serious.

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Life is surely not as cheap as you make it .It  seem like you have nothing of value in your life.If you would stop writing letters to Santa Claus to get answers  you might take life for more that just nonsense.Because you live your life by  a cartoon role model,don't think everyone should do so.

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                                 bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 dude, if you were any kind of man, you first would try to learn better english before you "try" to insult anyone.
                                 2 if anything is cheap in life i would dearly love to have not paid so much for what i have gotten!
                                 3 it's not my fault that Santa didn't answer your letters when you were a child.
                                 4 my role models are people like Paramendies, Plato, Sir tomas Aquines, sir Francis Bacon, St. comte Germaine. do you know who any of these great men were?
                                 5 Jack you my friend are the JOKE!!!

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, thanks for the link, but did you read it yourself, and did you also look into the website (Codoh) and the author himself, (Bradley Smith)?
         
         Here ya go:
         
         For many years, Smith has been at the center of the deniers' college outreach program. He first drew public attention when about 70 college newspapers published his Holocaust denial ads, which he still regularly sends to campus editors, in the early and mid-1990s. All of these ads are reprinted at the CODOH Web site.
         
         At first, Smith's ads featured long essays that outlined the deniers' position, such as Mark Weber's "The 'Jewish soap' myth." Smith's first widely published ad stated "the figure of 6 million Jewish deaths is an irresponsible exaggeration, and...no execution gas chambers existed in any camp in Europe which was under German control." This ad went on to note that the "purpose" of accounts of the Holocaust is "to drum up world sympathy and political and financial support for Jewish causes, especially for the formation of the State of Israel." Another early CODOH ad claimed "The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum displays no convincing proof whatsoever of homicidal gas chambers."
         
         http://www.adl.org/poisoning_web/codoh.asp

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            secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, I don't know why Cecilia called Michael Shermer an anti-semite when, if anything, the Holocaust-denying and revisionist position of the author is more consistent with anti-semitism. Shermer was supporting the mainstream view of WWII.

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               Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I do know why. She never does her homework, never reads the links she provides or what others provide and often just makes stuff up as she goes along. Typical believer behavior.

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                  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Haha. It's like posting a critique of Adolf Hitler written by Person A and saying "Person A is a racist anti-semite!"

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I thought Atheist got their from themselves,and not from books that brainwash them into believing what they present.Why can't you think for yourself?

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Do you not recall what you learned at college or university? Did you not recreate the very same experiments in those books to verify and confirm whether they worked or not? Did you not further your education by writing your own thesis, in other words, a creation that would require you think for yourself?
         
         

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Your original thought is from scientist,and not from yourself.

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               Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               We are one and the same.

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               bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               dude, an original thought comes from inside your own mind. it's that part of you that you fight against every moment. are you for real or what ? Jack, you need to study something other than your own writings.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't contend.....I just deliver.Other writings don't have the answers.I write from experience and the gifts of His spirit that I was born with.It defy scientific and technical knowledge .My knowledge is from above,yours is from beneath.You world don't have enough knowledge of our spiritual existence for me to refer to. Confidence,.....is my sword.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     That's funny! This post would indicate that megalomania was your sword.

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                     bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Jack, what is it that you study? i have been alive for 53 years and never in all that time has anybody either come back from the dead or had any conversations with any of the gods. now this might surprise you. YOU are not GOD. you might want to be but sorry you are not! anything else is a little bit to far. you expose your lack of faith and dig yourself into the pit with all this trash. once again Jack. Waco burned down a while ago!!!

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        People have focus on the false so much that they have overlook the fact that true ones still exist.

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                     getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     It also defies sanity.
                     
                     You should have used "defies" instead of defy.
                     Singular subject=Singular verb.
                     
                     Use correct subject-verb agreement.  YOU ARE ON A WRITING SITE!
                     
                     You would think that all this superior spiritual knowledge, coming from none other than the most intelligent entity in the Universe would have prepared you better than this?  Instead, He put you in front of the world to be made to look like a bumpkin.
                     
                     
                     
                     Apparently knowledge from above neglects to teach its pupils basic writing skills.  You should probably switch to the school beneath, as I have noticed these posters that you accuse of this are much more worldly, educated, articulate, and intelligent than you are.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Either way you got the message,....whether it came riding or walking.

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   recommend1posted 13 years ago

   I haven't read it but I am collecting examples of this just for my writing about China.  Almost every foreigner I meet has a 'pet' complaint that they are certain about as if they have learned it with some kind of moment of enlightenment.  The latest, yesterday, was an older American guy who is convinced that the air pollution in China is because 'they' build too high and all those tall buildings prevent the wind from blowing.
   
   This guy is a normal intelligent human being but he is adamant about this and will not be argued with.

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   dutchman1951posted 13 years ago

   I can  only imagine Bailey, I think I have  finaly came to a conclusion, that if I really wanted to always feel that Guilty, I would have lived with my mother!!!!!!
   
   No Thank you

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      no way I could live with my mother again!

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   recommend1posted 13 years ago

   Maybe HP should require a certificate of mental health before allowing people to publish their delusions, instead of witch-hunting people with sane stuff who don't write so well.

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, a very sick puppy this one.

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         Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         As long as you cannot prove that,it is not a bother.

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   cheaptrickposted 13 years ago

   Come on Y'all...your being a little hard on this guy dont ya think?I mean,he said in his first post that he has TWO bodies=TWO minds=Schizophrenia!Have some compassion and give a few pennies to the mental health people that are required to sit for hours with this type.No wonder the suicide rate is so high for shrinks.

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am glad you told me about yourself,but don't try to pass it off on someone  else.That is really a cheap trick.

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         cheaptrickposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL.....to....INFINITY!!!!!!!!!!!
         OK Y'all!!.....Jack is stuck on the Roof of Delusion!!
         ANYBODY WANT TO HELP
         [[[JACK OFF]]]!!!!!!!!!!!

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            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I tried not to laugh, honest I did.

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               dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Hey Earnest
               Just had a wounderfull experience that really has restored my faith in youth. Was Invited to the Nashville Symphony tonight and they featured a Group of Kids from different schools to chair with them and play.
               
               WHAT A FANTASTIC PERFORMANCE, I mean brite, articulate, talented, advanced kids. amazing.  I wish I had taped it, to put on the net.

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                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Lets hope someone else got a tape, Kids are great, especially the kids that are involved in such activities.
                  
                  Cool it bolstered your spirits!

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               dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               lol....I did laugh

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Its one thing you don't have to worry about the egg...it shall crack by itself.

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            When you find out what a mess you have gotten yourself into it shall be an awakening .

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               bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               are u gonna say something or what?

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I think I,ll just throw it up in the air and see who catches what.

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                     bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     jack,

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        What is your question?

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't have to walk the same road as you do in order to get to the same destination.

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If you haven't taken your pills.....now would be a great time. cheaptrick

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   A machine predestines the future don't it?

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      EFFECTS of occurrences pre-determine future events that have already been decided.

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         heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         This page explains well what  Predestination means
         
         http://grovergunn.net/andrew/os2.htm

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   bri36posted 13 years ago

   look Jack, us pitiful nonbelievers are to "far back" to get a decent grip on your rocketship. it would be better if you wrote down some of your Manafesto, and publish a couple so that we all can "learn the big words" of your path into the Light. until then i think yelling at the word of G-d is a little bit to "far ahead" for me thank you

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't believe in Big words nor high class behavior nor making myself look better than everyone else.The world have focus on false prophets and false teachers,and false messengers that they have been overtaken by the thought that everyone is false.The ones that seek it shall know it first.

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         bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         well if you don't believe, then why are you trying to convince us that you know the way?
         2 if you call your behavior "high class" i'll sit in the fire!
         3 someone who truly "KNOWS" doesn't spew crap like this, they lead by example.
         4 you my intrepid friend are just like all the rest of the fools who think they KNOW only to find out that satan really is you...

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            bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            stop trying to prove that you KNOW and just be what you are! if this is to much to understand, then quit listening to your own words and take some of the medicine the doctor gave you. its people like you that make it hard for the ones that do KNOW. we are the light, the love, and the all of life. YOU are a waste of time. Jim Jones died a long time ago. Waco burned down. give it a rest!!!!

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            Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If a wise man contend with a fool,they will both be fools.

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Way to go grasshopper! That sorta makes it clear then! We are all fools.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't contend......I just deliver. But you say that you are a fool,but you don't have to be if you stop saying and doing foolish things.

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     And I guess you could stop being a fool and engaging in this discussion with all the fools.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You miss the point as usual.I don't contend.........i just deliver.

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                           earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           You should read your own post!

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              And what would i find?

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                                 earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 That you claim it takes a fool to contend with one...... of course if you want to take yourself out of your own statement I'm sure god will find a way.
                                 You do nothing but contend, despite your slippery script.

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                                 bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 jack, are you afraid to talk to a true believer? or just a fool after all?

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                                 bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 depends on what you think to look for. waiting for an answer to my posts jack. are you afraid still?

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               bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               you haven't delivered anything but hate and bullshit here! if you call this      contending then all who follow you will not like where they end up. stop trying to force your beliefs on to something that has been ongoing for ever. G-d is all and all is G-d. where is your humanity? your love for fellow man? do you only pick and chose who it is that you look better than? when are you going to see that this is not the way to teach what is real and what is lost. you are truly the fool, when you speak the same hate you say you are fighting against!!!  come now, Jack

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                  bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  now here's something to think about, where in all of this did anybody say you or i was a fool? when you let your self get angry at nothing, you are less than your enemy. when you speak from the all of life, your enemies flee before you. Jack you are your own worst enemy when you try to force what you believe G-d is. G-d is ALL

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                     Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I speak positive and with CONFIDENCE and not IF'S...theories,maybes,and i think so.So my words don't include a "sugar coating" to most it is a welcome change of stability......to others change is offensive.

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  To you my knowledge is one thing,to others it is a well of water.I speak against the world of corruption,self-righteousness,paganism,falsehood,those that hold their heads up a little too high....and those that speak against God.That is why hate is the first thought of the masses.....because they love darkness more than the light.

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               bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               if a wise man contends with a fool? are you saying you are a fool? Jack give it a rest. The delivery is lost on foolishness. before you start thinking up a snappy answer, why do you hide your face? do you always talk like this to everybody? or do you just save it up for fun? do you really know? are you a follower of christ? or just hiding behind him? what is it that you really do believe in? or is that something that us poor fools wouldn't understand? let us know Jack, truly you wouldn't keep the truth from us, would you?

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                  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It is very clear that you don't have the capacity to understand what i told you when i said... "I deliver"...I do not contend.I speak his words and let the chips fall where they may.Seem to be that some of those chips fell on you.
                  I don't have to contend....my knowledge is none negotiable.It cannot be voted on nor compromise.They are messages.There are many foolish people in the world that contend with the foolish,i just bring the water it is your choice whether you drink or not.

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                     bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     you speak against a lot of things Jack, when are you going to speak about some of the good things? or do i not understand that either? dude you are full of something and i don't want to know what it is.

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                        Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I was given much knowledge to bring forth.It is all coming out in the wash.

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                           bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           take some of that soap and wash out your mind. how do you reconcile the fact that you "SPEAK" for G-D. when the rest of us are supposed to listen to him. dude i think that is just a little bit satanic in it's make up. stop jack you have made your point. i give up, you win, i will no longer ever try to show you just how wrong all of this is! may GOD have mercy on your soul

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                              Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I will.But YOU are the one looking for ANSWERS ,I have already been given the answers to life.You are not sure of your own stability,so how can you convince others that it is stable?

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                                 bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 i don't need answers i got you to tell me all the lies i ever want to hear. Good bye Jack

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   secularist10posted 13 years ago

   I plan on attending a talk by Michael Shermer on this book in a few days. Maybe I'll write a hub about it.
   
   He is one of my favorite thinkers nowadays.

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   Muldanianmanposted 13 years ago

   No evidence will ever be strong enough to convince the believing brain.  It will be dismissed as the invention of the devil, as is the case with the physical evidence for evolution.  If people want to believe in absurd ideas, it really is useless to try and convince them that they are wrong.  And the believer is a very determined creature, and has ways of winning any debate, by simply shouting the loudest and terrorising those who do not share their beliiefs.  So, whilst their ideas may seem primitive to the rationalist, I really do believe that at the current moment in history, their views are winning.

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      lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I really don't think you can use a term so broad as 'believers' and make a statement summing them all up. There are stadium-filling preachers that hold crowds in raptures, or dead-eyed suicide bombers who swear violence and death to the infidel, then there are monks who say nothing at all and spend a life in prayer and self-denial. Those are just a few stereotypes. Most 'believers' I know live by their creed but rarely mention it.
      It's good to spend an evening with wine and cigarettes discussing faith or science and all the rest. It's part of life and culture and has been for thousands of years.
      Work time is for facts and figures. Leisure time is for contemplation of the unknown.
      God Bless leisure time.

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         Muldanianmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, but the question is about the believing brain.  The way that believers practise their faith varies dramatically.  Yes, there is the fundamentalist terrorist at the one extreme, or the peaceful monk or nun, who spend their lives serving their fellow man at the other.  But still, some of their beliefs have by nature to be at odds with scientific facts.  The peaceful nun, whilst being filled with love for mankind, will still more than likely share beliefs with those of a more fundamentalist nature.  For instance, that the universe was created in six days, that there really was a worldwide flood, that the bread and wine of the Eucharist really does change physically into the body and blood of Christ and that non-believers will end up in hell.  All of these beliefs necessarily go against scientific wisdom.
         
         I agree that not all believers are fundamentalist, but in order to believe something in spite of the evidence, they must at least share an ability to ignore anything, which shows their beliefs to be false.  Even for all those who live peacefully by their creed, without ever mentioning it, believe in an ideology based upon ancient ideas which have been largely disproven by science and archaeology. 
         
         I once had a work colleague, who attended a convent school, where she had her left wrist beaten every day by the Sisters of Mercy, because she was left-handed, which they said meant that she was possessed by the devil.  This was only 20 years ago.  This belief was not based upon logic or scientific evidence, but on centuries of religious teachings.

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            lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Muldanianman.
            But there are a number of other points to consider. Firstly, science as wisdom is still theory. Faith may go against scientific theory but not necessarily against scientific wisdom. It is easy to discredit the claim that the world was created in so many days for example, or a statue crying real tears, but a good scientist knows not to discredit something that manifests itself in the human mind, generation after generation, spontaneously, regardless of it being unprovable. A scientist may observe that belief is very often a matter of nurture, and therefore to be explained away,  but when belief appears naturally, as it also has the tendency to do, it has scientific viability and can be treated accordingly.
            On your point about all belief ultimately stemming from a skewed logic, I would say that this is the world we live in. There are logical people, illogical people, rational and irrational. There are scientific minds in religions who conclude that the creation story is an allegory, but that Jesus' story was fact. There are people who think that vegetables have feelings. All religions must watch out for people with illogical minds because they get the emphasis wrong, (as in the crazy violent nuns you hear so much about.)
            In general the simple-minded folk are the innocent ones however, who need protecting and properly educating. They don't tend to be the ones who are designing WOMD since they couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, let alone try for world domination. Time and time again it is the bright sparks who get up to no good. The highly educated ones who turn God on his head to suit their purpose.
            I hate religious ignorance as much as you do, but aren't we really just talking about ignorance generally?

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    My "Believing brain" thinks that...
    
    Folks keep using the word "spirit" to describe sumthin' other than what I view it as being.
    
    Spirit to me has to do with an intoxicating liquid, being highly spirited, team spirit. a spirit of joy, on and on.
    
    I'm gonna take the role of "Beelz" and play the "devils advocate."  :
    
    The religious speak of spirit like it is a transcendental something that escapes the body at death and may join a supernatural divinity.
    
    Isn't that just wishful thinking? An illogical hope? An unreasoned belief which has no basis in reality? A metaphysical postulate?
    
    Soul, this god thing, spirit, all seem to me, to fit into a classification of thought and belief that only the fearfully superstitious, the intellectually bereft, the easily fooled and led and the frustrated lesser evolved, embrace.
    
    ...just "letting my fingers do the walking." :
    
    Could I be wrong?  :
    
    Qwark

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    ...a believer in WHAT?...y'all....

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       C'mon Qwark! Dont make me lay it all out for you again!!!!!!!!!!
       
       In the beginning, god made himself, then he... you should remember the rest.

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          qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Dang you Earn! There you go ruining all my plans!
          yer a derned "Aussie" ball buster!   
          Qwark

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             earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Now now don't get abusive!
             
             I'm only trying to steer you on the path of righteousness...
             
             Don't be too hard on me, I'm hangin upside down on the planet already ya know, and have too much blood in my brain as it is!
             
             I thought I explained all this to you in my hub about how to become a millionaire overnight on hubpages for the measly sum of fourteen chickens!

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                qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                wait a minute! I'm on the other side of the planet hangin' upside down too! : oh...and by the way, I gotta bone to pick with ya on that 14 chicken overnight millionaire thing!
                I invested 14 of my best laying hens and now the damned horny rooster is STALKING ME! WTF! 
                
                Qwark

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                   earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Serves ya right for buying Foghorn Leghorn!

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                      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Jesus! You got the CIA workin' for ya? How the hell did'ja know I hired him?
                      I know he's got a helluva groupie fan club, but......Australia?
                      The danged world is shrinkin' to fast fer me!  :   
                      It's past the "witchin" hour. I gotta get my beauty sleep.
                      I'll ketchup (heehee) with ya tomorrow. g'nite ya Aussie ballbuster :   zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
                      
                      Qwark

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                         earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         I keep handin em to ya boy an ya just keeps dropin em.... lookit me when hum atalkin to ya boy!
                         That boy needs a few more letters in his alphabet soup!
                         
                         Sound like him?
                         
                         Good night good qwark!

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                            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            Yup! Ya talk just like my damned horny rooster...
                            
                            Imitation is the highest form of compliment!
                            
                            If I tell 'im tho, his head'll swell so big he won't get out the chicken coop door!
                            
                            This'll just stay 'tween you and me...wink wink :
                            
                            I hope my 24 chicken investment pays off! If it don't Earn, stick with yer auto hubs ok? 
                            
                            Qwark

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                               Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                               Everything shall come in time..that you can take to the bank.

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             Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Your plans have a lot of holes in it,and is not good for circulation.

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          Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          How easy it is to be brainwash by personal opinions and books of the world.

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       Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       What do your believing brain say about SPIRITUAL INTELLIGENCE?
       The brain cannot produce it.So science equations concerning of action and reactions of the body is misinterpretated.

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          bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          dude, you are really making a fool out of yourself here. it's real simple Jack, just fill up a glass with water and count out 2 pills. then eat some food. in the morning you will feel better. I promise

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             Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             If you had a little bit of knowledge i might be concern with what you say,but you have a child' s intellect so Pity would be the focus on your itty-bitty brain.

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    I'm curious. WHY...DOES ANYONE RESPOND TO "JACK?"
    
    He uses the words "knowledge" when speaking of his religious beliefs.
    
    Knowledge when referring to religon is an oxymoron which only a moron wouldn't understand.
    
    No intent to demean of insult. I'm just asking a question. :
    
    Qwark

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    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Jack's had all this attention, and hasn't had to come up with a single thought or idea himself.
    
    Jack is a legend in his own mind, above all the crook christians, the ailing atheists lurking on his otherwise nice clean thread.

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       bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       he really didn't say much either...
       makes me wonder if all the believers back at the ranch are on break? since he has spent so much time trying to learn how to spell. they are out of work now...

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          Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          If you don't know the answer just say so,.....and stop making excuses.That is a sure sign of WEAK INTELLECT. the FIRST THOUGHT of a guilty person is to fine someone to blame. I would rather be a dummy than a mummy.A dummy to certain knowledge can always learn...a mummy is not real and without hope.I would rather be all the way real,than all the way fake.

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             bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

             first of all, you have not even come close to exposing any weakness in my intellect.
             2 it seems to me that YOU are doing a lot of assuming and guessing as to what we are saying
             3 this is a sign of a weak mind. and we all know what happens to weak minded people they end up either crazy or lost in the mist of drugs!!

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                Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                We both shall see which is which.Knowledge shall speak for itself.

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                   bri36posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   all i want to know is this, why do you hide your face?

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                      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      It is in 3D ,i painted it myself.That is the way  it is suppose to look.Knowledge is before you now....are you switching subjects,or just running when there is nothing behind you.

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    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    You got that right Jack.
    
    In fact I'd say the dirty laundry has been washed then hung out to dry.

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    I just dumped this thread!!!
    No Mas!
    Qwark

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